you*
I want to know from all the other religions how you truly see islam. Do you think of it as a terrorist religion or a religion of peace. say it here.
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you*
I want to know from all the other religions how you truly see islam. Do you think of it as a terrorist religion or a religion of peace. say it here.
TOTALLY CRAZY.
Nah. Not more crazy than Christians. However, in some countries, there are a few pretty aggressive Muslims. That doesn't mean that in normal countries, there can be Very peaceful Muslims.
Basically, I don't think better of Islam than of Christianity, However, I do think Islam has a few points in some very poplar steams of Islam, that are very un-western, and un-cool. Like forcing woman to wear stuff on their head. It's just silly.
You can't judge people with out meeting them. Yes, there's lots in the new today about Muslims being terrorists but you can't class them all as the same.
I don't know anything about their religion except it is man made. I just wish the women would finally get a bee up their butts about the way they are treated. But now its too late in the game. They should have drawn the line in the sand a long time ago.
Just another silly set of stories with a silly set of rules. Not particularly harmful in itself.
Would that be because you are male?
The question is about Muslims, not the Muslim religion. I wouldn't want to stereotype one way or the other. The only personal experience I really have to go on is a long-time co-worker of mine who I consider a good friend. He is one of the kindest, gentlest people I have ever met. I don't know if he is a typical Muslim, but he sure isn't doing anything to give Muslims a bad name.
Perhaps in some Arab countries they are forced - but here in the UK there are plenty of Muslim women who don't wear the Hijab. Having also been to Dubai and India i know that is also the case there.
And there are plenty of Muslim Women who wear it out of their own choice to be more devout or whatever.
Would that be because you're jumping to pre-formed conclusions?Quote:
Originally Posted by vee
No, actually, if you read, let's say the Bible, you'll find plenty of places where it calls for the subservience of women.
So let me repeat; nothing wrong with the religion itself. Any faults are with the people who use it to support their biased arguments.
And please don't suggest that I'm sexist again, I find that very insulting. Of course I don't care about women any less because I'm male, don't be so juvenile.
I heard that in the UK those women are getting gang raped if they happen to be caught out alone. Also as for women wearing the Hijab out of their own personal choice to be devout we will never know that for sure will we. Its more than likely they are scared to death not to wear one. There is a time they could have stood up for themselves. That time is now long past.
The same logic that states you should perceive Muslims as terrorists also applies to the Irish (IRA attacks etc). Now, it's stupid to think this of anyone, so I jude people by how they behave around me, I try not to have preconceptions.
I live in a muslim area, and the VAST majority of women wear nothing on their heads and I have a sneaking suspicion they dont get gang raped.
Im sorry about the preformed conclusions. Which...by the way. The Bible was written by men too. ahem....
When a book comes out that was written by both men and women. That one would probably contain spirituality. What is only written by men is suspect.
..... women DO NOT get gang raped if they are caught out alone in the UK. Sure, mebbe it happens sometimes, but its a very rare occurrence.
You're saying they are scared to death of not wearing one? Ok....Quote:
Originally Posted by vee
in places where there arent many muslims (like here) its hard to know what to think. Of course i dont judge them, and no i dont think muslims are terrorists, but the media tells everyone here that they hate everyone who isnt muslim, that they are terroist, and that they are all out to kill us. And we dont see any example to suggest they arent.
i dont believe all of what the media says though. how can you say that about a group of people just cause they have the same religion?
we are talking about muslims. not the bible.Quote:
When a book comes out that was written by both men and women. That one would probably contain spirituality. What is only written by men is suspect.
The Hijab and full veil is more of a cltural thing, not a religois one. Islam sprung up in areas where dominance over women was alreadya common feature, if anything its something wrong with the arab culture which spread via people link betweeen that culture and Islam.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Koran itself advocate a violent sort of intolernace against all non-muslims? If I am not mistaken, the Prophet Mohammed laid out 3 options for people, in order of preference.
1.) Convert to Islam and be saved.
2.) Don't convert, but submit to Islamic rule
3.) "The sword"
So from what I gather, the Koran tells it's followers to spread the word of Islam, by any means necessary. First you try to convert people into followers so that they will be saved. If that doesn't work, then you try to force the non-believers to submit to Isamic rule anyway, but let them be damned of their own volition. And if that is met with resistance, the Koran gives Muslims the divine right, nay, the divine duty to hurt and/or kill these infedels as necessary for total Islamic rule over the world.
How am I supposed to see that?
The same way you see this in your bible, but still say you are a peaceful Christian.Quote:
Originally Posted by ethen
Just because the Qu'ran is violent doesn't mean all Muslims are. The bible is violent too, and most Christians aren't violent either.Quote:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1)If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
Speak for yourself, im not Christian.
I am sorry, I had you mistaken with someone else. In that case, my reaction to you was kind of exaggerated. Sorry. Still, my point stands: The Qu'ran gives as much reason to aggressive idiots as the bible. And gosh, does it! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ethen
I wasn't aware this topic was about Christians...
his point is still quite valid even though Christianity is not the topic. Most religions have extreme and quite violent aspects to the their orginal doctrines, mainly the three Abrahamic religions but they are, i nthe main, not practiced like that at all.
I don't believe that the Muslim religion is really one of confrontation or warring any more than any other religion. What I do believe is that the religion has been hijacked by radical fanatics. And by not standing up and saying "Hey, those nut-jobs don't speak for me; that's not what I'm about" the Muslim masses are allowing their name to be tainted by the vocal, aggressive few.
Their unwillingness to stand up and speak out is also allowing the "dark forces" to gain momentum. After all, if your own people aren't showing that they are against the evils you perpetrate then what's the problem? Well, I think we can all answer that one.
I personally don't have a problem with somebody for just being a Muslim. Islam is a religion that is a whole lot like Christianity, and most of the people I have known in my life have been Christian. I know that the Koran has a lot of pro-violence messages in it, but so does the Bible. Most Muslims are probably allright people. That is my personal perception. But I am disappointed with Islam as a whole because of the way the terrorism situation is being handled.
I can assure you that the terrorism issue we are facing right now has done a lot to give Islam a terrible name. Like I said, I don't dislike any individual for being Muslim, but a lot of Americans are developing that attitude, and it's not healthy for Islam. The most famous Muslims in the world are terrible people, and they are obliterating the U.S.'s view of Islam. If the terrorists want to convert us, they should act like the Mormons and Methodists by peacefully approaching people with smiles and friendly invitations to understand the "good news" about Allah. That is how you convert people. If more Americans were converted to Islam, the opposite of which is happening as a result of the terrorism, the United States would have a lot more sympathy and understanding for Islamic perspectives. If Al Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hezballah want us to show them more sympathy, they are going to have to call off the threats. What they are doing is counterproductive. We hear practically nothing about Islam outside of terrorism issues. That's not good. That is why the entire Muslim world needs to come together and emphatically and passionately cry out against the terrorist organizations. I don't see that happening on any significant level right now and have not seen much of such Muslim outcry in the past. If the masses of Muslims would do that, we would have a lot more help in handling the terrorist organizations, which would benefit the Islamic world, and the image of Islam here would be greatly improved because the good Muslims would be making a name for themselves, which would benefit the Islamic world.
I see it as a religion of peace, because all the Muslims I met were pretty cool and laid back. Maybe I'm wrong, but I got the impression that it's basically a peaceful religion.
I honestly don't know what to think of Islam. In my studies of the Qu'ran, I saw Nazi like racism under the text. I also saw a strong message of peace. This is probably the cause of confusion between Muslims who think the world should be converted with words, and those who think the world should be converted with force.
I've never met a native Muslim. I really don't know what the Muslims world is like yet.
I am friends with a Muslim and he is one of the nicest people I know :)
I believe ppl like Osama are twisting the words of Islam 4 their own benefit!
Of course they are. Osama, Hamas, Hizbollah (...etc) are using their people - usually by playing on the minds of people in bad situations - to further their own aims using the original intolerance and almost racism found in their holy book (as such intolerance will be found in any holy book).
I have nothing against the Muslim faith, and I know Muslims to be peace-loving, as are most of them. Obviously normal Islam is not centered on killing and holy war, but they are expanding that and using the parts of their holy book that are now seen to be intolerant to recruit people. I think that Islamofacist groups are getting more and more popular now, though.
Oh, ands just in case anyone thinks of twisting my meaning (perish the thought) to start a "terrorists aren't cold-blooded merciless criminals, they're opressed" thread, I would like to point out something. Yes, the everyday suicide bombing recruits (not ordinary Muslims, I'm talking about the opressed ones) you get of the street will be opressed, and not only will they, in some cases, have hate bred into them, you have to remember they've been fed false evidence, baised reports and news, and a general insistence that [X] is against them all their lives. No wonder they turn to the thought of blowing themselves up. But the point still stands that the real terrorist, the planners and the exectuters, not the cannon fodder, are lying to their own people, using them as physical and political sheilds but brainwashing them into thinking jihad is good to further their aims. Yup...poor old opressed butchers.
Good or bad, the most vocal and in-your-face always musters the most support. That goes for most things in life. Look at TV commercials, listen to the crap on the radio. The examples are plentiful. What people are exposed to is what becomes popular. Popularity gives the impression that something is ok and even encouraged.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Humble Sinner
This is why it's so important that parents do their part. This is why spanking your children is more valuable than could possibly be understood if only the surface is considered. This is why political correctness is the most dangerous force in today's world. This is why the government's putting their collective nose in the parents' business and trying to raise our young for us is so counter-productive. Contrary to popular belief: it does not take a village to raise a child. It takes only a good source of parental guidance (e.g. parents).
It's time that the world community gets the balls to call a spade a spade. The reason terrorism is so difficult to challenge is because we're all so damned afraid of defining our enemy and calling evil evil. It's funny how we're so quick to make movies where the evil Soviet Commies are portrayed as the bad guy but, you'll be plastered to the wall if you dare portray evil terrorism as the work of evil terrorists. Get some balls, world. We can't fight this alone.
Until we gather the courage to even define our enemy we stand little to no chance of defeating them. Until then, we're only fighting a vague idea. Let's put a face to our threats. Even though our enemy has a face, we're too afraid of hurting some one's feelings to point the finger at the radical movement. PC be damned.
Exactly! You know, I saw an "Afro-American" talking on a chat show. He absentmendedly said that his ethnic group were "black people".
Not only have I NEVER seen a black person insulted by the term "black person", it seems they don't care either. Was they a huge huev and cry? Was he aked to resign? was the shows reputation trashed? I think not.
In Britain Christmas celebrations in schools are now being called "Winter Festivities" because they have some ethnic minorities in the school. I am part of one ethnic minority they mentiond. I AM INSULTED (as is everyone else of this ethnic minority that I know) that, because not everyone celebrates Christmas, they aren't allowed to.
Now road accident have to be called collisions when one is in public, because "accident" may imply that the person not looking at your lane and swerved in front of you is somehow at a fault. The word accident apparently implies that someone screwed up.
Hmmm. There are two wrecked cars smashed into each other. But remember, no-one screwed up and this is no-ones fault. It is not PC for anyone to be at a fault.
You can't pinpoint the blame on anyone, and in some cases that's not right to do. But in any accident worse case scenario, both parties screwed up. That is a fact. If no-one screwed up, there would not be a crash. Good grief.