Thread: Why do people think God's validity = Religions truth?

Well, just say there was murderous cult that subjugated women, kept slaves and were bound by their holy book to spread their cult through violence and fear.

If they said their deity was all-loving and forgiving, I wouldn't believe them and I wouldn't believe that their deity was real.

Moving swiftly on from the Abrahamic religions...

But, does it mean that God doesn't exist? Maybe not their God, but ...

True, I see what you're saying.

But the same applies to any deity with a cult following.

Well that's their problem, they named their god God. If they named him Mr. Evil, there wouldn't be a problem. When you say that god doesn't exists, you probably mean the god which is being discussed. But bad experiences with religion might make you hate all gods and things related.

I definitely agree. I don't get into big arguments over whether god exists, I get into big arguments over "his fan club" pushing its morals.

We didn't name our god "GOD", it's kind of like "YAHWEH" in some respects.

He revealed to Moses the adjective I AM ,but that is still not his name.

Ancient ppls believed that by telling someone ur name u gave them power over u, that's why we call our god "GOD", we do not know his true name.

But obviously if this god is omniscient, it'll know that giving your name doesn't give you power over it.

So it would've given it's name.

Once again we have an example a deity that had the intellect of a tribesman from about 3,000 years ago.

Just because some Americans are stupid does that mean all Americans are stupid? Just because some americans are in the KKK does that mean all are? Not at all. Religion is too broad to say it's all wrong and bad. When I meet people who are sincere Christians, it is a powerful thing, you start to see what the bible is talking about. But if you see Christians that are carnal hypocrites, then you start to hate Christianity and The Bible. I find a lot of doubt in God stems from bad experiences with the hypocritical false Christianity.

Originally Posted by jaasum

Just because some Americans are stupid does that mean all Americans are stupid? Just because some americans are in the KKK does that mean all are? Not at all. Religion is too broad to say it's all wrong and bad. When I meet people who are sincere Christians, it is a powerful thing, you start to see what the bible is talking about. But if you see Christians that are carnal hypocrites, then you start to hate Christianity and The Bible. I find a lot of doubt in God stems from bad experiences with the hypocritical false Christianity.

Ah, the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy at the end there.

Never heard of that, care to elaborate?

No True Scotsman.

It's basically like saying, 'people who doubt gods only do so because of false Christians.'

I didn't say only, I said "a lot"

And trust me I realized the difference when I said it.

Originally Posted by wannywan

Ah, the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy at the end there.

I disagree with the notion it is a NTS Fallacy.

Think of it: It is the same as saying no true Buddhist kills.

Originally Posted by wannywan

But obviously if this god is omniscient, it'll know that giving your name doesn't give you power over it.

So it would've given it's name.

Once again we have an example a deity that had the intellect of a tribesman from about 3,000 years ago.

How do you know that having someone's name doesn't give you power?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

How do you know that having someone's name doesn't give you power?

Are you joking?

No?

OK, turn on your national news channels...

'Die George Bush!' ...

Anything happen? Maybe it's more of a mind control thing, I'll try it out in the next couple of days on world leaders who I know the name of.

I adapted a belief that God is not the highest power, existence is just currently structured to seem that way.

Originally Posted by DoomedOne

I adapted a belief that God is not the highest power, existence is just currently structured to seem that way.

Now THAT's an interesting notion. And it begs the question, how do you define god? Do you define god as "the highest power, whatever it is", or do you define it in terms of what lots of people define it today, which may turn out not to be the highest power after all?

Originally Posted by Keeper

If you have a problem with a religion, don't assume that it means that God doesn't exist, please.

You are correct. I have a problem with religion, and I also happen to believe that god doesn't exist. These are two separate issues that just happen to co-exist in my personal belief/value system.

Indeed, the philosophical "is there a creator" question is definitely decoupled from my thoughts on organized religion.

I don't follow any religion, but I'm open to the possibility of God.

For me, God is conciousness, really. The ultimate mystery of the universe, and the infinitely most sacred state which physical things aim for.

That sounded very New Agey, but I think maybe you can see past that.

But then there's also the 'creation God', to address, too. I think it might be possible that this reality was created by a concious being, and hence a God...

Think about it this way: say there's a universe out there where everything makes perfect sense, and everybody lives forever.

There's a topic about how people would cope with immortality, and most basically say that there'd need to be some mechanism by which we wipe our memories every thousand years or something.

So if there were a universe where everything made sense (and this seems like a logical idea to me...) and there's, I don't know, some kind of giant blob of conciousness... as far as I see it, the best way to go about 'living' as such would be to create a beautiful universe of variety and mystery such as the one we inhabit. The mechanic of death would serve as both a memory wipe, and a motivator to live each life to the full.

I'm not saying any of this is true, just throwing out some ideas about an unconventional God.

It does, after, seem strange, that although there is an infinity of time before I existed and an infinity of time afterwards, the time just happens to be that minuscule moment during which I'm a conscious being. I mean, it'd be one hell of a coincidence for starters.

I agree - which is why I'm Deist

Originally Posted by Xei

I don't follow any religion, but I'm open to the possibility of God.

For me, God is conciousness, really. The ultimate mystery of the universe, and the infinitely most sacred state which physical things aim for.

That sounded very New Agey, but I think maybe you can see past that.

But then there's also the 'creation God', to address, too. I think it might be possible that this reality was created by a concious being, and hence a God...

Think about it this way: say there's a universe out there where everything makes perfect sense, and everybody lives forever.

There's a topic about how people would cope with immortality, and most basically say that there'd need to be some mechanism by which we wipe our memories every thousand years or something.

So if there were a universe where everything made sense (and this seems like a logical idea to me...) and there's, I don't know, some kind of giant blob of conciousness... as far as I see it, the best way to go about 'living' as such would be to create a beautiful universe of variety and mystery such as the one we inhabit. The mechanic of death would serve as both a memory wipe, and a motivator to live each life to the full.

I'm not saying any of this is true, just throwing out some ideas about an unconventional God.

It does, after, seem strange, that although there is an infinity of time before I existed and an infinity of time afterwards, the time just happens to be that minuscule moment during which I'm a conscious being. I mean, it'd be one hell of a coincidence for starters.

Wow. I share the same views. Couldn't have said this better myself.

Xei, why would our memories have to be wiped every thousand years or so? i just don't understand why. i believe that God gave us our individuality, and a desire to learn. people are happy when they learn something new, and they're happy when they teach someone something. i think the reason God created suffering is to prove that we have free will. if we choose to follow God, we'll live eternally with him, if we choose not to, we'll die. and by that i mean a spiritual death, we'll be without God, we won't be able to learn, because all we'll know is suffering. think about it, would you be able to concentrate on a good book if you had an excruciating migraine? i doubt it. i believe God created eternity as a gift to us. if we simply choose Him, we can live and learn and be happy for eternity. there's no point in trying to understand eternity, we can't and never will, and it doesn't matter because it's a gift, all we need to do is enjoy it. and we'll always have a place and a purpose, there will always be those who have more wisdom than you, and those with less. you can learn and you can teach, always. that sounds more enjoyable to me than an eternity without God, which can only be suffering, both mental and physical. i believe this because i've lived it. about a week ago i had an epiphany. i won't explain it in detail now, but basically the epiphany i had was realizing what God is. God is love. it even says that in the bible, "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." 1 John 4:8. ever since then, i haven't worried about anything for even a second. i can learn faster, because my mind is clear, instead of bogged down with worries and fears. i have full confidence. ask anyone i'm close with how completely changed (for the better) i am. i used to be so full of anxieties, i was absolutely pathetic, and needy.

ok...that is a lot at once and not very fluent. i'm bad about that. but hopefully you get what i'm saying?

Sort of...

Well, if we take my hypothesis as true (and hence discarding all of the elements of Christianity above which are discordant with it - not that I'm opposing your view, but just for the purposes of answering your question it makes sense to do so): like I said, there's a thread here somewhere about immortality, and people seemed to come to the conclusion that after a while life would get very dull when you had discovered all that there was to be discovered, and experienced every new experience there was to experience, and suggested obliterating the memory of those experience in order to let them happen all over again. That's all there was to it, really; that it's a much more enjoyable alternative.

And I'm glad that somebody gets what I'm saying Michael, it's kinda rare.