Thread: Why?

Because it's fun to play devil's advocate and challenge one another's beliefs. And it's even more fun to see things like, who has a consistent set of beliefs, and who gets super-defensive when challenged. It's nice to question your own belief system constantly, and I encourage everyone to do so. If you don't, you won't grow, and neither will your faith in whatever you believe.

Originally Posted by Replicon

Because it's fun to play devil's advocate and challenge one another's beliefs. And it's even more fun to see things like, who has a consistent set of beliefs, and who gets super-defensive when challenged. It's nice to question your own belief system constantly, and I encourage everyone to do so. If you don't, you won't grow, and neither will your faith in whatever you believe.

I tend to agree. I just wish it was a bit more civilized ...

Originally Posted by Replicon

Because it's fun to play devil's advocate and challenge one another's beliefs. And it's even more fun to see things like, who has a consistent set of beliefs, and who gets super-defensive when challenged. It's nice to question your own belief system constantly, and I encourage everyone to do so. If you don't, you won't grow, and neither will your faith in whatever you believe.

I do the same, if I am ever playing devils advocate it may not be because I am literally trying to convince someone otherwise, just more to ask myself the question. See how well my own beliefs hold up to scrutiny.

I would just appreciate it if everyone could have a discussion rather than a battle royal lol

The simple answer to this thread. No one can be comfortable with everything they believe being right until everyone else is wrong.

I don't think there is any wrong, I think everything everyone knows is part of truth, that's why I enjoy sharpening iron with iron whenever I have conversation.

I like understanding other people's ideas. Also, my mind has been changed before. I have a tendency to look into possibilities of having it changed again.

Originally Posted by jaasum

Why is there SO much discussion on the existence of God here?

I hope this doesn't turn into a debate but just a discussion.

If you don't believe in God why are you so bent on proving there is no God?

If you do believe in God why are you so bent on proving God exists?

I want to know why we keep going in circles. It seems Theists are trying to justify their beliefs in a deity and atheists are trying to justify their non-belief in a deity.

As it seems to me neither of these beliefs should be concerned with proving anything, because it isn't in the nature of either.

Granted, its not that i'm bent on proving no God, it is more like...I wish people would grow into better human beings, but as long as god is around that wont be possible

Because I feel that religion allows you to come up with idiotic things and then justify them by saying God, or whatever diety, said so. Its not that I want to prove anyone wrong, it is just that I feel you shouldn't hide behind what a god believes, and then say "don't blame me, God said so."
The common practice among thiests is often to say, "I don't judge people," while at the same time they say "God will judge them."

I don't like the blame game basically is what i'm saying. There is a quote from a famous book...something along the lines of "is it not common practice for society to first make criminals and then punish them for being what we've created?"
An old book I believe.
That is basically why I don't approve of religion. People say that they are loving, they care for people, etc. etc. etc. but it just isn't true, they hide behind God so that they can still say they are loving and caring individuals. Rather than hating those who have done evil, wouldn't it be more adequate to love them, and try to help them reform? Show them their errors, etc. Of course then there is the go to hell for eternity thing...I'm not really sure where the instances of "hell fire" came up, i'm told it is from Jesus in the times he actually spoke of it...but I don't own a bible...well I do but its at my old home.

Anyway, people GROW and we EVOLVE (emotional and mentally, i'm not just talking about biological function here), its what we freaking do. It is ridiculous to assume that anyone deserves punishment which serves no purpose. Hell serves no purpose because it isn't designed to show people the error of their ways, it is designed just to punish, for the sake of punishing. If hell weren't forever, then I wouldn't hate it SO bad, but I still think it is ridiculous, its NEVER appropriate to say someone deserves to be punished for all eternity.

Even Hitler, yes Hitler, doesn't deserve that, if he changes. I feel that if he truely changed, he wouldn't deserve punishment forever. Besides, if he truely changed, he would put himself in terrible agony because the thought of his horrible deeds would make him sick.

I told my father my opinion on this subject and he responded in this manor.

Dad: So if someone just came up and shot me in the head they don't deserve to be punished?
Me: That isn't what I said, I said that they need to be corrected, for some people it is punishment.
Dad: Oh, so you wouldn't want to punish them, you don't think they deserved to be punished?
Me: Not for the pure sake of punishing them no!
Dad: Oh, I see!

At this point he stormed off, appearantly I upset him.

And that is basically why I don't like the fact that people follow religion.

I actually think debate's a good way to rapidly share and challenge ideas, and all parties should learn from it, it does tend to get quite heated here but aslong as people avoid personal attacks I dont think it matters too much. Ive found many posts here interesting and ive learnt quite a bit about how both theists and athiests think. As for why the existence of God crops up so often.. well its quite an important question and many people seem to like to speculate on the answer.

I think it's simply because there is no one answer so the question never ends. Everyone says what they believe about it and others challenge that and add their own and we can't know who is right so it goes on and on.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Dad: So if someone just came up and shot me in the head they don't deserve to be punished?
Me: That isn't what I said, I said that they need to be corrected, for some people it is punishment.
Dad: Oh, so you wouldn't want to punish them, you don't think they deserved to be punished?
Me: Not for the pure sake of punishing them no!
Dad: Oh, I see!

At this point he stormed off, appearantly I upset him.

And that is basically why I don't like the fact that people follow religion.

I can assure you that if somebody shot your father in the head you would want that person to be severely punished. I will even go as far as promising you that you would want to kill the son of a bitch yourself. The will for revenge is an overwhelming emotion. I think the families of victims deserve their revenge on the person who initiated the terrible situation. A murderer owes his life for that very reason. Denying the families' right to revenge hurts them greatly. I don't think things should work that way. Even if Hitler changed, he would owe a great deal of revenge access to the hundreds of millions who were emotionally devastated by what he did. Revenge for a truly evil act is therapeutic, and it is deserved.

Originally Posted by ThePhobiaViewed

I think it's simply because there is no one answer so the question never ends. Everyone says what they believe about it and others challenge that and add their own and we can't know who is right so it goes on and on.

I think a lot of the questions atheists keep asking keep getting dodged. Some of my biggest questions have never been answered here. They have been responded to, but not answered, even though I have started several threads on each.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I can assure you that if somebody shot your father in the head you would want that person to be severely punished. I will even go as far as promising you that you would want to kill the son of a bitch yourself. The will for revenge is an overwhelming emotion. I think the families of victims deserve their revenge on the person who initiated the terrible situation. A murderer owes his life for that very reason. Denying the families' right to revenge hurts them greatly. I don't think things should work that way. Even if Hitler changed, he would owe a great deal of revenge access to the hundreds of millions who were emotionally devastated by what he did. Revenge for a truly evil act is therapeutic, and it is deserved.

I don't want to turn this thread into a debate...would you mind if we carried this conversation over into either Chat or PM's?...I'll create a chat room incase you would like to let me explain to you the reasoning behind my thoughts.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Granted, its not that i'm bent on proving no God, it is more like...I wish people would grow into better human beings, but as long as god is around that wont be possible

Because I feel that religion allows you to come up with idiotic things and then justify them by saying God, or whatever diety, said so. Its not that I want to prove anyone wrong, it is just that I feel you shouldn't hide behind what a god believes, and then say "don't blame me, God said so."
The common practice among thiests is often to say, "I don't judge people," while at the same time they say "God will judge them."

I don't like the blame game basically is what i'm saying. There is a quote from a famous book...something along the lines of "is it not common practice for society to first make criminals and then punish them for being what we've created?"
An old book I believe.
That is basically why I don't approve of religion. People say that they are loving, they care for people, etc. etc. etc. but it just isn't true, they hide behind God so that they can still say they are loving and caring individuals. Rather than hating those who have done evil, wouldn't it be more adequate to love them, and try to help them reform? Show them their errors, etc. Of course then there is the go to hell for eternity thing...I'm not really sure where the instances of "hell fire" came up, i'm told it is from Jesus in the times he actually spoke of it...but I don't own a bible...well I do but its at my old home.

Anyway, people GROW and we EVOLVE (emotional and mentally, i'm not just talking about biological function here), its what we freaking do. It is ridiculous to assume that anyone deserves punishment which serves no purpose. Hell serves no purpose because it isn't designed to show people the error of their ways, it is designed just to punish, for the sake of punishing. If hell weren't forever, then I wouldn't hate it SO bad, but I still think it is ridiculous, its NEVER appropriate to say someone deserves to be punished for all eternity.

Even Hitler, yes Hitler, doesn't deserve that, if he changes. I feel that if he truely changed, he wouldn't deserve punishment forever. Besides, if he truely changed, he would put himself in terrible agony because the thought of his horrible deeds would make him sick.

I told my father my opinion on this subject and he responded in this manor.

Dad: So if someone just came up and shot me in the head they don't deserve to be punished?
Me: That isn't what I said, I said that they need to be corrected, for some people it is punishment.
Dad: Oh, so you wouldn't want to punish them, you don't think they deserved to be punished?
Me: Not for the pure sake of punishing them no!
Dad: Oh, I see!

At this point he stormed off, appearantly I upset him.

And that is basically why I don't like the fact that people follow religion.

You know what I agree with you completely and I am a Christian, well a Christian that believes some pretty heretical things but I still claim to follow Christ none the less.

I can agree with you yet still have faith without those errors. You see, you are looking at what MAN does and not what GOD actually says. Christ never talked about hell fire, that was a mis-translation. It is translated from the word "gehenna" which is a literal place on earth where criminals went to go be burned and thrown into the trash heaps that literally were crawling with worms and the fires never went out. And he said this to the pharisees, the religion hypocrites of the day. The Bible is full of many different view points and I don't agree with them at all, and I definitely do not believe in eternal hellfire or anything of the sort, I believe in loving sinners because I myself am I sinner. Most of Christianity is not this way and it breaks my heart.

I am not saying believe in God, but maybe realize that human nature is a very evil dark thing, and they will pervert their religion and use it for their own selfish gain or to boost their own egos as much as they can. But not everyone thinks this way.

I like what you have to say and I think it is perfectly valid about Christianity.