Thread: Belief is the death of thought.

I fail to understand his reasoning.

Explain.

Makes perfect sense to me. Blind, ignorant beleif and things that are explained as having been created by a higher power, just because we can't think of the answer, or tradition tells us to blindly beleive and stubbornly deny anythin esle, even when the real answer is out there, certainly is the death of thought...and you know, I think it's sad. I am not fully agnostic now, I have a faith, but in no way do I beleive anymore...I do it for the tradition (and holiday foods). :p

I agree with the sentiment, but would want to clarify the use of the word "belief." It's believing and giving up looking at evidence to the contrary that is the death of thought. If we use belief to simply mean a held assumption, it doesn't fit the underlying idea in my mind. Having no assumptions certainly isn't thinking either.

Yes, this makes sense.

When you believe, you do not think about it. You just accept it as fact without any real reason.

std::

I disagree. I hold a faith and I find my self observing the things around me and asking how this or that fits into my faith. I also think belief can foster the growth of knowledge among serious debators because they might be looking at scientific lit. to find scietific grounds for the faith. I can't count the number of times I came here because of the discussion of faith and read somthing that caused me to try and expand the perimeters of my knowledge.

There is something. That something is consciousness. The only thing i know as being truth is that i exist.

To witness a dream, there must be a dreamer.

Being theoretical about existence, requisites a theoretician.

Belief requires NO truth. This begins the road to what you pose.
Belief does NOT have to be blind, leading you to a flock of thoughtless sheep.

It can certainly hinder thought from a broad perspective. In can bolster thought withing any certain secular belief.
That is my two cents. well 0...5 cents

I just like to agree with skysaw on something.

Belief is the death of thought?
It is too broad a statement. Like many.

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I disagree. I hold a faith and I find my self observing the things around me and asking how this or that fits into my faith.

That's exactly the problem. It should be the other way around.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

That's exactly the problem. It should be the other way around.

lol

std::

Originally Posted by thegnome54

That's exactly the problem. It should be the other way around.

Mr. Nail, meet Mr. Head.

Well said.

Belief requires NO truth. This begins the road to what you pose.

That's ridiculous. What good is a belief if it is not based upon truth?

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

I believe Robert A Wilson was the first to say that...

Discuss.

Hell yeah! You are the first Robert Anton Wilson fan I have talked to about him on this site. I have brought him up a bunch of times here, but even Illuminati believers don't know who I'm talking about. Cosmic Trigger Vol. 1: Final Secret of the Illuminati is my favorite book of all time. I love that stuff.

Wilson says early on in Cosmic Trigger that he has been attacked by a lot of people who say that he believes in this and that. So he clarified his position by saying, "I don't believe in anything." He said all he knows is that something is going on but he is not sure exactly what it is. Then he went on to talk about the most insane stuff I have ever heard of, and it is so damn interesting.

I think belief is fine, as long as you leave a spec of room for error on everything. Belief helps people explore their own ideas passionately and effectively. A complete absence of belief stifles the exploration of ideas because none of it sticks as making good sense. As a result, you lack drive to look much further. But being completely convinced of everything you "believe" stifles intellectual exploration even more.

Originally Posted by Silvanus350

Belief requires NO truth. This begins the road to what you pose.

That's ridiculous. What good is a belief if it is not based upon truth?

Everything is based on truth.

Everything is true.

What you see, you feel, you smell... all that you sense is real... whatever it may be, it is still something. If only a dream? It would still be a dream.

'Real' is the witness, and the witnessed.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

That's exactly the problem. It should be the other way around.

Unfortunately, thats is how much of science is carried out as well.

Everything is in faith... when the reality is that we know nothing that is truly real, because none can give parameters...
...as in true reality, everything is possible and our unlimited interpretation creates it so.

Yet, bind this interpretation, and we are bound by our own thoughts.

While I agree with the idea, I think it pretty hard to live without any belief. For example, I believe that when I press a button on the keyboard it will work and make a letter on this page. An assumed belief because it has never not worked, even though that is a possibility.

I will get around to reading his books, he said they were stories for the paranoid (something along those lines). I've watched a couple videos featuring RAW, if he writes at all like he talks it should definitely be interesting.

Everything is true.

Uh, excuse me? I think we're operating under different approaches to truth.

You cannot have two things, the thesis and the antithesis, be true all at once. For example, either God exists, or He doesn't exist. One answer naturally excludes the other.

...as in true reality, everything is possible and our unlimited interpretation creates it so.

Now I'm confused. You're saying I can interpret reality any way I wish?

Originally Posted by Silvanus350

Everything is true.

Uh, excuse me? I think we're operating under different approaches to truth.

You cannot have two things, the thesis and the antithesis, be true all at once. For example, either God exists, or He doesn't exist. One answer naturally excludes the other.

...as in true reality, everything is possible and our unlimited interpretation creates it so.

Now I'm confused. You're saying I can interpret reality any way I wish?

Well... i thought that might be presupposed... but yes, if you are being serious.

Ever wonder why 'mad' people don't think they're mad?

Originally Posted by Silvanus350

Now I'm confused. You're saying I can interpret reality any way I wish?

You've been doing it all your life. So yeah.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Belief is the death of thought.

that statement assumes that you cannot believe and think nor think and believe at the same time... i suppose that makes this statement bombastic.

Originally Posted by cloudWalker

Well... i thought that might be presupposed... but yes, if you are being serious.

Ever wonder why 'mad' people don't think they're mad?

What.... What are you talking about? Me?
Is that towards me cloudwalker?

What ever your belief, if you attach yourself TOO strongly to any form of any belief system, is when you can go blind to other ideas.

But, isn't faith often an all or nothing deal?

I don't believe in God, but if there is one....
I believe our marriage will work, but if not, this prenuptial agreement...

Without the but, one stands to get burnt.

Lulz...

I think (only think ) that everything you don't experience and witness yourself, and then trust and theorise upon in being something other than the possibility of being nothing and everything, is a belief.

E.g., christians going to church worshipping a white man with a beard living in the clouds.

That is faith, unless they have witnessed/experienced it themselves.

Faith (or belief) is not positive nor negative, and as everything else, cannot be judged without simultaneous internal (and external) duality.

Faith is almost always here. It is in almost everyone.

Reality is the current witnessing/experience that is currently happening.

Our consciousness does not live in the past. How can it? Only if we 'remember' what we interpret has happened. It is then created in your mind as how you interpret (infer) it, and you experience it at that moment. In the present.
It cannot possibly live in the future, unless in inference... inference being faith itself.

The only 'truth' is in the present. What i am feeling right now, what i am witnessing, experiencing... is the only 'reality'.

If someone lives in the unknown (the unknown, being anything not in the reality [being the present]), which is almost everyone in this world, will have faith. Faith that their inference into the past is correct... Faith that their inference into the future is correct... Faith that anything, but the present is 'real'.

-Jake

Originally Posted by Howie

What ever your belief, if you attach yourself TOO strongly to any form of any belief system, is when you can go blind to other ideas.

But, isn't faith often an all or nothing deal?

I don't believe in God, but if there is one....
I believe our marriage will work, but if not, this prenuptial agreement...

Without the but, one stands to get burnt.

This is true, at least up until one has direct experience of any said potential truth. Until the advent of direct experience all there can be is mere "belief", and or "faith". After direct experience ALL belief systems fall away and faith is no longer needed. All of that is replaced with direct knowledge.

Originally Posted by cloudWalker

Lulz...

I think (only think ) that everything you don't experience and witness yourself, and then trust and theorise upon in being something other than the possibility of being nothing and everything, is a belief.

E.g., christians going to church worshipping a white man with a beard living in the clouds.

That is faith, unless they have witnessed/experienced it themselves.

Faith (or belief) is not positive nor negative, and as everything else, cannot be judged without simultaneous internal (and external) duality.

Faith is almost always here. It is in almost everyone.

Reality is the current witnessing/experience that is currently happening.

Our consciousness does not live in the past. How can it? Only if we 'remember' what we interpret has happened. It is then created in your mind as how you interpret (infer) it, and you experience it at that moment. In the present.
It cannot possibly live in the future, unless in inference... inference being faith itself.

The only 'truth' is in the present. What i am feeling right now, what i am witnessing, experiencing... is the only 'reality'.

If someone lives in the unknown (the unknown, being anything not in the reality [being the present]), which is almost everyone in this world, will have faith. Faith that their inference into the past is correct... Faith that their inference into the future is correct... Faith that anything, but the present is 'real'.

-Jake

I think that this may hold true if most of your words are used very loosely.