• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




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    1. #1
      ^_^ Infinityecho's Avatar
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      Cartoon banned by the Mormon church

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo

      Around the three min. mark there is this discussion about
      black people are nuetral and white people fought against lucifer?

      Discuss:
      I play broccoli with checkers every night.

    2. #2
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      I'm going to be judged by god, jesus, and joseph smith, oh my!

    3. #3
      YKYMF
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      Yeah so this is some weird shit. I don't know who wrote this but they definitely didn't actually talk to the Mormons and more or less constructed this from misconceptions about that religion.

      It is, however, awesome.

    4. #4
      Consciousness Itself Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Your video led me to this very trippy video.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqi5F...eature=related
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

    5. #5
      vee
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      Ok...back to the video. Rediculous. Stoopidoo. Barbaric. Just goes to show what a man with a pen in his pompous little hand can doooooo.

    6. #6
      vee
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      I mean really. This is why I say take a sword. That way you can lop Joseph Smith's head off if he tries to judge you or stick you in one of his harems. Which Im sure you boys are not safe from either.

    7. #7
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      ^^ Shut up. ^^

    8. #8
      27
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      HAHAHA!!
      This video is hilarious!
      I'm Mormon and as you could probably guess this is nothing near what Mormons believe. I have no idea where they get these ideas but it's good for a laugh.

    9. #9
      Legend Jeff777's Avatar
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      This is saddening. What's even more saddening is if that story had any shreds of truth. Blonde hair blue eyed celestial gods/human gods.... I'm not sorry to say that religion is the biggest plague upon mankind, 2nd only to the government.
      Last edited by Jeff777; 11-29-2007 at 04:22 AM.
      Things are not as they seem

    10. #10
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      I got as far as Jesus marrying his own mother.

      Isn't it unreal that someone who believes this crap actually has a chance to be president? (Not that the other religions aren't crap--but this is crap piled on crap.)

    11. #11
      Shaman Quester's Avatar
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      I was in the LDS church and left it. And no this cartoon is not accurate of them. Anti Mormon propaganda from fundies that are jealous of their success in evangelizing and collecting tithing IMO.
      DISCLAIMER: ALL my posts are meant to be my personal opinion formed by study, research and life experiences. In no way do I feel that my opinion is the last word or that anyone of a different opinion has need to reform it.

      Shaman Quester THC-Ministry.org
      Rev.Steven_Wilson ULC Ordained #42185
      NAMASTE

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
      Anti Mormon propaganda from fundies that are jealous of their success in evangelizing and collecting tithing IMO.
      So you are saying that it is inaccurate? In what way?

      P.S. Crap I'm getting spam in my e-mail for "LDS" singles. I thought it had something to do with Lucid Dreaming supplements and I thought that was a weird singles group. Guess what it really was--"Latter Day Saints". I bet it was cuz of that cartoon? I don't know why else, I never got that before.

    13. #13
      Shaman Quester's Avatar
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      In just about every way. As idiotic as the church and their doctrine is, I at least never heard anything about other planets, god havening sex in heaven and most of it. Of course I was 17 when I went in and 21 when I left. That was some time ago. And they "reform" their doctrine a lot. So this may be something new that I haven't experienced and valid in contemporary Mormonism. What I discovered that shook me up at 21 was their connection to freemasonry and occult practices. And after leaving I discovered all the inconsistencies that prevail in their doctrines. It was funny though.
      DISCLAIMER: ALL my posts are meant to be my personal opinion formed by study, research and life experiences. In no way do I feel that my opinion is the last word or that anyone of a different opinion has need to reform it.

      Shaman Quester THC-Ministry.org
      Rev.Steven_Wilson ULC Ordained #42185
      NAMASTE

    14. #14
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Bwahahahaha! I love the shot of buddy with all his hot wives at 0:50!

      And then when he comes knocking on the virgin Mary's door, he's all like "Hey baby!"

    15. #15
      27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Moonbeam View Post
      I got as far as Jesus marrying his own mother.

      Isn't it unreal that someone who believes this crap actually has a chance to be president? (Not that the other religions aren't crap--but this is crap piled on crap.)
      Again, no one believes this. It's just anti-mormon propaganda. No truth in it at all

    16. #16
      YKYMF
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      Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
      In just about every way. As idiotic as the church and their doctrine is, I at least never heard anything about other planets, god havening sex in heaven and most of it. Of course I was 17 when I went in and 21 when I left. That was some time ago. And they "reform" their doctrine a lot. So this may be something new that I haven't experienced and valid in contemporary Mormonism. What I discovered that shook me up at 21 was their connection to freemasonry and occult practices. And after leaving I discovered all the inconsistencies that prevail in their doctrines. It was funny though.
      You'd probably shit yourself if you knew how many things you like are connected to freemasonry. Or the occult. Consider also that Freemasonry has very little to do with the occult.

    17. #17
      Party Pooper Tsen's Avatar
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      Okay. So, little information in this thread so far, but lots of firm set opinions. I'm another ex-mo, and I like to consider myself quite well informed.

      Here's the deal.
      Joseph Smith was not racist, and in fact was strongly in favor of the abolition of slavery. He personally baptized several black men and women into the church, and ordained several into the priesthood. He said, among other things, that it "made his blood boil" to see the injustices committed against blacks. All's well and good.
      Then Joseph smith dies.
      Brigham Young comes along, announces that black people are the descendants of Cain and inherited his curse (dark skin), and thus are ineligible to receive the priesthood, receive celestial marriage or endowments (vital steps in the Mormon church for entering heaven), or even enter temples. (Note: this is in direct conflict with Joseph Smith's viewpoint, as Joseph actually ordained several black people himself) Thus, official church doctrine was, until 1978, that blacks were not to receive the priesthood.

      However, one of Young's Apostles, Orson Hyde, announced in 1845, the year after Joseph's death, that in heaven, there were three groups: Those who supported God and Christ, those who supported Lucifer, and those who didn't know who to support. The third group were not outright damned, but were penalized by being "cursed" with black skin when they were born on earth, and thus couldn't receive the priesthood. THIS NEVER BECAME OFFICIAL CHURCH DOCTRINE.

      This doctrine is largely undiscussed among modern Latter-Day Saints (mormons). Personally, I feel that the church is rather embarrassed by its racist past and tries to cover up the worst of it, but others may disagree. Ultimately, though, the Mormon church was not, at it's roots, racist--Joseph Smith did not originally intend for blacks to be denied the priesthood. Racism in the LDS movement largely began when leadership was shifted (or usurped, as some would say), to Brigham Young.
      This is almost entirely omitted from Mormon teachings on church history--they largely skip over the century-long ban on blacks receiving some of the most important blessings of the church and the motives of this ban. That isn't to say they ignore that blacks could not receive the priesthood, only that they seldom teach why this ban was started.
      This is one of the greater flaws of the church--and all religion, really--they discourage inquiries into sensitive areas of church history.

      Onward, and backwards, to the beginning of the movie:
      -Elohim has only one wife, not many wives, and does not live on Kolob. Kolob is considered the nearest of his creations to him, but he does not reside there, he resides in the upper level of the Celestial Kingdom (heaven). It IS possible that, before the first Official Declaration, certain church leaders taught that God was a polygamist, however this is NOT church canon.
      -Elohim does not have "endless celestial sex". Mormon doctrine says we are only his "spirit children"--his creations, but not his literal children. Christ is his only *literal* child (though Lucifer could be considered so as well, he never received a physical body, and was disowned, more or less. This is complicated, and official church doctrine on the subject is sketchy).
      -Jesus's plan was for ALL planets and creations of Elohim, not only Earth. Earth is actually considered somewhat of a backwater planet to Mormons--one of the least of God's creations and the furthest from his seat in Heaven. The key factors in Jesus's plan were that humankind would be given free will and that the glory would not be his, but God's. Satan's plan was that nobody would have freedom of choice, and would merely do what was right and nothing more.
      -Those who followed Lucifer were imprisoned in Outer Darkness (rather like Hell), not sent to earth.
      -The concept that those who followed neither were cursed with black skin was never official church doctrine, as described above
      -The church most certainly does NOT teach that God was Adam, and one of his wives Eve. First off, like I said, he only had one wive, and she is virtually never mentioned in church doctrine. She exists, but the church doesn't teach anything about her. Adam and Eve were merely two of his creations, no different than any other Christian religion. (Though the Mormon concept of the original sin is slightly different)
      -Mormons do NOT believe that God had sex with Mary. Mary was a virgin--she merely carried God's physical child. Again, no different from other Christian religions.
      -Mormons do NOT believe that Christ had three wives. SOME Mormons believe that he had *one* wive, Mary Magdalene, because it is taught that Christ lived a perfect life, fulfilling all of the necessary ordinances to get into heaven, which do include being married. This is, however, controversial and certainly not church doctrine.
      -Joseph did NOT claim direct descent from Christ (or, at the least, the idea that he did is not considered church canon).
      -Mormons DO believe that Native Americans are Israelites. Specifically, they believe that around 700 BC, Nephi and his family set sail for the (second) Promised Land, and arrived here, in America. Christ did come and preach to them (other sheep I have, which are not of this fold and whatnot).
      -Joseph was not (at least until he founded the church) known for telling "tall tales". This is merely a small jab against the church. Understanding is the most important part--I left the church, but I did not do so out of irrational hatred or dislike, and this statement is born out of just that.
      -Mormons do not believe that all Christian creeds are "an abomination", only that they do not have the "fullness of the gospel", namely, that the prophets and apostles have died out, and the lineage of the priesthood was gone from the earth, and thus they were incomplete until Joseph restored the priesthood and the fullness of the gospel.
      -Joseph Smith will NOT be present at Judgement. For the record, Joseph Smith is regarded as somewhat of a hero--a great prophet, but NOT as a god (though he may become one, for the sake of this conversation, he is NOT divine, merely divinely inspired). A good comparison would be Moses--a hero to most Christians, and a great prophet, but certainly not a god.
      -Once again, God (and those who become gods) are NOT polygamists. Polygamy is outlawed by the Mormon church. Indeed, the motives for instating polygamy in the first place are not what people typically think. For the most part, polygamous marriages were instated when the Mormons left for Utah to insure that women who's husbands died in the massacres or on the trip to Utah had financial and physical support on the long journey and the hardships faced after arriving in Utah. It also was to ensure that the Mormons did not physically die out, by making sure that every woman had a chance to marry and have children, even though there were far fewer men at the beginning (mostly due to the massacres and hardships they faced on the way to Utah). It was NOT so that perverted old men could justify having young wives. All marriages were consensual (though the FLDS church is not always this way, it is a separate organization that split upon Joseph's death).
      -Mormons do not believe that Joseph Smith did more for us than Jesus Christ. In fact, the church has officially stated, and it is inscribed in the Joseph Smith Memorial building, that he "Has done more for the salvation of mankind than any other SAVE Jesus". Again, they believe he was important, but NOT divine.
      -Mormons believe that Joseph Smith was a martyr, but NOT in the sense that Christ was--he was not atoning for us, he was merely unjustly murdered while campaigning for what they see as a just cause.
      -Yes, the church does pressure people into entering into "Celestial Marriages"--if you do not marry in a temple, to a worthy member of the opposite sex, you will not be able to enter into the highest levels of heaven. However, if you marry a worthy member, and they become unworthy, you will not be punished for their actions and will still enter into heaven.



      Sorry that was so long, but hopefully it answers (most) questions about the Mormon church. If you have more, ask away. No guarantees I'll answer back in a timely fashion, but I will try to at least get back to you before too long.
      Last edited by Tsen; 12-04-2007 at 08:56 AM.
      [23:17:23] <+Kaniaz> "You think I want to look like Leo Volont? Don't you dare"

    18. #18
      No me importa... Riot Maker's Avatar
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      How tempted i am to post a link to the Mormon south park episodeeeeeee. but i won't.

    19. #19
      27
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      Tsen, thank you so much. You got it almost perfect. I'd just like to point out the whole concept of 'Kolob' is obscure at best. No one really knows what it is or what it means. The only scriptural reference to it states that it is the star closest to heaven. Whether or not there is life outside of earth is of little importance to the Mormon faith.

    20. #20
      YKYMF
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      Quote Originally Posted by JMAC View Post
      How tempted i am to post a link to the Mormon south park episodeeeeeee. but i won't.
      What's funny is that episode is nearly entirely accurate. It just has a fun poking attitude.

      And the proportion of ex-mos here and other places on the internet always staggers me.

    21. #21
      27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Spook View Post
      What's funny is that episode is nearly entirely accurate. It just has a fun poking attitude.

      And the proportion of ex-mos here and other places on the internet always staggers me.
      It is not accurate. I've pointed out some of the errors in the episode before. Namely that Joseph Smith did not translate the plates out of a hat. There were more than 4 plates. He did not dig around all day looking for them. He found the plates when he was 14. He did not tell everyone he had found them. Others did see the plates. Anyone who has opened up a copy of the Book of Mormon would know that. Martin Harris's wife did not hide the lost 118 pages. People did not easy accept Joseph’s testimony, if fact he was hated and persecuted for it.
      I liked the episode and wasn't offended. It just bothers me that people take South Park's description of Mormonism and without bothering to learn anything about it themselves.

    22. #22
      YKYMF
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      Quote Originally Posted by 27 View Post
      It is not accurate. I've pointed out some of the errors in the episode before. Namely that Joseph Smith did not translate the plates out of a hat. There were more than 4 plates. He did not dig around all day looking for them. He found the plates when he was 14. He did not tell everyone he had found them. Others did see the plates. Anyone who has opened up a copy of the Book of Mormon would know that. Martin Harris's wife did not hide the lost 118 pages. People did not easy accept Joseph’s testimony, if fact he was hated and persecuted for it.
      I liked the episode and wasn't offended. It just bothers me that people take South Park's description of Mormonism and without bothering to learn anything about it themselves.
      Joseph did in fact use a hat on several occasionas because he was working in an undarkened room. This is not disputed by any reputable apologists. Several of your points are not important, but are dramatizations which have no real impact. The South Park episode does not grossly misrepresent any LDS doctrine.

    23. #23
      IZ
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      Whats up with you people??? Why are you judging a religion from the views of someone or group thats on the outside of the religion attacking it. The only information your going to get with that is info that has been misunderstood and interpreted in its own undertanding and maybe even destructive to misinfrom someone who is just curious or needs something better to prove his or her own misjudgement on the matter. Its just like if I was discussing with a friend the Mormon episode of Southpark. (You know which one). And Southpark is the number one show that makes fun of every religion. They used the Mormon belief for comedy (and yeah it was halarious). But this idiot of a friend took it as if it was a documentary on Mormon belief. I feel so F-ing sorry for these idiots who believe anything they see and actualy think that its the truth coming straight out of the facts that you might as well find in an educational book or documentary clip. So put some thought into it guys. You might as well think a baby and dog can talk just because you watch Family Guy.
      Last edited by IZ; 12-09-2007 at 05:18 AM. Reason: Spell check I guess.
      When I dream, theres always a
      little girl playing in the dirt, that
      turns to me and says "Why are
      you here? .... Are you blind like
      me?"

      What I've found
      What I've known
      Never shined to me what I've shown
      Never be
      Never free
      I wish to see what might have been...
      ...So I talk to you unbeliever.

      I walk in the rain. 1111

    24. #24
      Party Pooper Tsen's Avatar
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      Spell check, please.
      [23:17:23] <+Kaniaz> "You think I want to look like Leo Volont? Don't you dare"

    25. #25
      27
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      Is it really unreadable? Who cares about the spelling? I totally agree, IZ.

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