Thread: Jesus...

I really liked reading that...

I don't really know what else to say...I'm not in to all this religion and stuff...

Thank you! It's great when people like what you write or think.

Jesus, if he existed, was a man, nothing more and nothing less. He wasn't divine... he wasn't a second god.

And yeah, organized religion = brainwashing more often than not.

I don't mean to question the existence of Jesus, or whether he was human or not. I already have some thoughts on those issues. I was merely pondering the symbolistic nature of the church, and the interpretation of them by the masses.

Christians believe that you have to ask for forgiveness... you aren't just forgiven for whatever you do. That's why there's a "hell". If you don't ask for forgiveness, they believe you go there.

Jesus is part of God. Holy Trinity = Father(God) + Son(Jesus) + Holy Spirit

In essence they are the one and the same. There are not two gods, there is only one.

And I believe Christians take Jesus as to spreading God's words and religion around, his arrival on earth wasn't meaningless.

although they usually know near nothing about their religion

I found this ironic.


BTW, I'm not Christian, their ideas are rater interesting.

I find it to be true.

I know those things. I was Christian and know about Christianity. Jesus being part of God would make him a deity, Christians don't view him as human which is what I was trying to say.

If God is all forgiving as he is preached, why would one have to ask for his forgiveness? All forgiving means that he would always forgive anything. People should have to ask forgiveness from a God that is allforgiving. That doesn't make too much sense. Perhaps they should change the all forgiving part. That would make their portrayal of God less nurturing though, which might bring a little bit of trouble to the church.

Then though, if this all isn't but a test to whether we get into heaven or not, what is this? And why should we be good? Morality or conscience? Perhaps the concept of hell is a method of keeping people in line socially and religiously. It keeps people in fear of something that is proclaimed all loving and forgiving, which causes them to submit to the most avaliable source of "eternal life" which is without a doubt a major organized religion. The biggest religion in the world is Christianity. At least religious brainwash at least keeps the crime rate low, in theory.

What would make Christianity God's religion? Considering that there is a God or Gods in nearly all religions, why would this be God's religion? A logical answer, to me, would be that Christians are arrogant enough to claim it as so.

In my opinion, God would be disgusted of organized religion because of how it portrays spirituality as a commodity and a cheap trick among other things.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

I love Christians and how, although they usually know near nothing about their religion, they love to include Jesus, God, and Christianity in everything that they talk about. My favorite thing ever is to get into religious conversations and arguments with them and just eat them up. As in, today in English, a research paper was due. We could choose to read them in front of the class for extra credit, and the three Christians that are like the above went up there. They just have to include some random little comments about Jesus and God. Their research papers were about mistakes and learning from them. SO you can guess what tthe Jesus bits were about right?

Christians aren't the only ones who think they are right. It's evident in all religions. We can learn from every one of them. Whether peoples lifestyle choices/beliefs/thoughts are examples or warnings...they're still lessons and we can learn from them all.

"When you are older you will know that life is a long lesson in humility." - James M. Barrie

I was mainly thinking of the concept of Jesus though, and the majority of my religious conversations are with Christians also, and are usually arguments because mostly they're very hostile torwards anybody questioning their beliefs or trying to induce some thought. That's why I mostly talk about Christians.

I love talking to Buddhists the most. They do actually think the most out of religious people. And it's actually possible to talk to them and brainstorm and all. You can have intelligent, mutually good conversations haha.

Well if Jesus existed which he probably did since Jesus wasn't exactly the rarest name ever, i mean you can be called it now, he was just a preacher of peace who was a strong Jew.

Bible wise:

I'd like to know more about Jesus as he was growing up as he is a baby then suddenly like 20( im guessing but i mean young adult), so his childhood would have been interesting, can't see why no one would have written about Gods son as a child since they worshiped him as a baby. I wonder what he did with his abilities, mischief probably ,lol.

( However the arch bishop of Canterbury recently said and wrote that in his opinion, the story of Jesus's birth apart from it being a virgin birth and him being son of God, is a myth. He said there were no kings visiting him, no gifts, the Sheppard's were simply watching their flocks as they usually did, they did not go to worship him, etc etc. He seemed to criticize Matthews gospel, saying it's only written there
and it sounds more like a story to exaggerate Jesus's importance as a baby)

I also wonder why in one instance Jesus says he and his father are not one being yet also says they are. It is accepted they are, but is unusual.

BUT MY MAIN question is...

God warns us of false prophets and idols and Satan all tricking us. How they will be clever and tell an inch from the truth. He said not to follow one who claims to be equal to him or more powerful, and not to fall for tricks, basically only follow God no matter what. SO why was Jesus believed by so many? Surely like the rest of the Jews. They should have just treated him as a mad preacher( well they think he was good, but it sounds mad to claim to be son of God) or even as a trick from Satan or a heretic for trying to make them worship him to. As many Christians seem to think of Jesus more then God, i mean at my school church it's always about what Jesus di and how Jesus is. Maybe they are worshiping a false idol? Maybe they will be punished and go to hell at death, an interesting and ironic twist if it's true( trying to convert so many into what is actually a doomed existence)

I wondered though, why the unecissary step of 32 years or so of Jesus. When he could have told people, "Believe in me and you're good." People before Jesus didn't need Jesus to get into Heaven, so why add another God that we have to believe in?

It's because God told Adam and Eve that if they sinned, they'd die as a punishment. When they did sin, they were seperated from God and eventually died. Their descendants inherited sin and so all of them (including us today) are sinful. God wants to be just and loving, so he came in the form of a human to take the punishment we deserve so we wouldn't have to. He found a perfect way to forgive us, while being just and loving. All we have to do is accept the gift and we are forgiven.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

I wondered though, why the unnecessary step of 32 years or so of Jesus. When he could have told people, "Believe in me and you're good." People before Jesus didn't need Jesus to get into Heaven, so why add another God that we have to believe in?

Not sure if that's true. I discussed this very recently with the Christian group "Impact" at my school. The majority of them understand that before Jesus's coming, everyone did in fact go to Hell and couldn't enter heaven. Apart from very select people that God had chose, say Noah and such. However that may not be the general understanding of the time period. Jerem, what to do understand from the Bibles teachings before the coming of Jesus?

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

Well if Jesus existed which he probably did since Jesus wasn't exactly the rarest name ever, i mean you can be called it now, he was just a preacher of peace who was a strong Jew.

Bible wise:

I'd like to know more about Jesus as he was growing up as he is a baby then suddenly like 20( im guessing but i mean young adult), so his childhood would have been interesting, can't see why no one would have written about Gods son as a child since they worshiped him as a baby. I wonder what he did with his abilities, mischief probably ,lol.

I think it went from 12 to 30. So 18 years of nothing. Maybe they ran out of stories, but didn't want him to die at 14. I don't think he was a preacher of peace... more like a preacher of religion and hisself being the son of God.

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

It's because God told Adam and Eve that if they sinned, they'd die as a punishment. When they did sin, they were seperated from God and eventually died. Their descendants inherited sin and so all of them (including us today) are sinful. God wants to be just and loving, so he came in the form of a human to take the punishment we deserve so we wouldn't have to. He found a perfect way to forgive us, while being just and loving. All we have to do is accept the gift and we are forgiven.

Why were they seperated? Natures law? Wait, God created everything right? Then why did he create this seperation?

So, are you telling me that everybody that was alive for the umm... 3600ish years as portrayed by Christianity are all in hell because Jesus hadn't come until the year 0? Jesus said something along the lines of am the way to heaven, you can't get there unless you believe in me, something like that... so I guess 3600 years worth of people are all in Hell. That sucks.

Please please explain to me how coming to Earth in human form and suffering brings about a perfect way for forgiving and how it is just and loving? Dieing for our sins might be loving, possibly just if you seriously twist this whole thing into a fucked up meaning. Perfect way for forgiving. I'd imagine an all forgiving, omnipotent God would forgive us before we even did the things wrong.

Do I not get the concept of "all forgiving"? Please explain it to me if I don't, and if I have it right maybe we should start a petition to change the Bible and Christian preaching to start having to say somewhat-forgiving. That's false advertising, sir.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

I love Christians and how, although they usually know near nothing about their religion, they love to include Jesus, God, and Christianity in everything that they talk about. My favorite thing ever is to get into religious conversations and arguments with them and just eat them up. As in, today in English, a research paper was due. We could choose to read them in front of the class for extra credit, and the three Christians that are like the above went up there. They just have to include some random little comments about Jesus and God. Their research papers were about mistakes and learning from them. SO you can guess what tthe Jesus bits were about right?

I was thinking earlier, and, I've thought that Jesus wasn't real or as hyped up to be. I don't think he was born from a virgin because that's pretty much impossible, and I wouldn't think that God would do that. I wonder why God had to make a son, let him preach some, then let him get killed so that people could be forgiven. If he's all forgiving in the first place, couldn't he just forgive us without any of that? And if he's all forgiving, why should there be a Hell? I know that these are nothing new to me or lots of people.

I wondered though, why the unecissary step of 32 years or so of Jesus. When he could have told people, "Believe in me and you're good." People before Jesus didn't need Jesus to get into Heaven, so why add another God that we have to believe in?

I came to the conclusion that Jesus and everything around him had to be symbolic and that Christians just take everything written in the Bible literally because of a lack of common sense or of proper thinking due to a brainwashing of religion or something of the sort.

Again, nothing real new... just some thinking out loud.

It sure makes a bit more sense out of this religion that we've all come to know and despise.

Any thoughts?

God is merciful, but God is also just. God sent us to earth to be tested. He knew we would all fail this test. We all sin and therefore we are all prevented from achieving salvation. Therefore, Christ needed to pay the price for our sins. He needed to suffer, not just die, but suffer for every sin ever committed. Only he, the son of God, could do this, because only he could lead a perfect life.

To put it another way, We all owe God a debt because of our sins. Because of this dept, we cannot enter heaven. This is a dept we cannot pay because it is to great, it would mean either our destruction or our damnation. God wants us to return to him, but the law of justice must be met. We want to return to him, so the law of mercy must be met. Therefore, Christ must step in to pay our debt. When we accept his help our dept is not forgotten. We must live our lives obeying his commandments and asking for forgiveness when it is needed. Some will not accept his help or will not live according to his commandment, and therefore cannot achieve salvation. This is the only way both laws can be fulfilled.

And Stephent, you're a cool guy. But you really shouldn't be stereotyping all Christians like you did. You don't know everything about Christianity either. I'm offended when some people say that Christians are either brainwashed or stupid. People who say things like that only show their own ignorance.

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

Not sure if that's true. I discussed this very recently with the Christian group "Impact" at my school. The majority of them understand that before Jesus's coming, everyone did in fact go to Hell and couldn't enter heaven. Apart from very select people that God had chose, say Noah and such. However that may not be the general understanding of the time period. Jerem, what to do understand from the Bibles teachings before the coming of Jesus?

If this is true, what would be the point of Noah and the Arc. If everybody is already going to Hell either way before Jesus, why not go ahead and make Jesus instead of having to flood and repopulate the Earth?

I do believe that those kids are one of my cases of "Know little about Christianity" Christians. Either that or the church is seriously fucked up and makes sense at the surface, but turns into bullshit when you dig down a bit.

It's pretty much like that anyways.

Originally Posted by 27

God is merciful, but God is also just. God sent us to earth to be tested. He knew we would all fail this test. We all sin and therefore we are all prevented from achieving salvation. Therefore, Christ needed to pay the price for our sins. He needed to suffer, not just die, but suffer for every sin ever committed. Only he, the son of God, could do this, because only he could lead a perfect life.

To put it another way, We all owe God a debt because of our sins. Because of this dept, we cannot enter heaven. This is a dept we cannot pay because it is to great, it would mean either our destruction or our damnation. God wants us to return to him, but the law of justice must be met. We want to return to him, so the law of mercy must be met. Therefore, Christ must step in to pay our debt. When we accept his help our dept is not forgotten. We must live our lives obeying his commandments and asking for forgiveness when it is needed. Some will not accept his help or will not live according to his commandment, and therefore cannot achieve salvation. This is the only way both laws can be fulfilled.

And Stephent, you're a cool guy. But you really shouldn't be stereotyping all Christians like you did. You don't know everything about Christianity either. I'm offended when some people say that Christians are either brainwashed or stupid. People who say things like that only show their own ignorance.

Hey man, I think you're cool also.

If stereotyping is noticing patterns in common groups of people, then I am stereotyping, and I'm not sorry for it. I'm just saying what I see as I see it. I never said that all Christians are brainwashed, stupid, ignorant, or thoguhtless. I will say that a lot of them are though. I don't think that you are, partly because of my love for the songs you put into the music game thread., , and because I see that you have a sense of intellegence about you. I don't dislike Christians, I dislike the concept of religion, organized religion really, of which Christianity is a major one. There are ignorant, brainwashed, and stupiid people in every group possible. Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, Islams, Confuscionists, etc. I will say though that Christianity does contain a percentage that doesn't really make it look like a "thinking" religion. More of a submissive one. I definitely don't think that Christians in general are stupid. I love many of them. A percentage of them are though.

With all that aside, back to reasoning.

If Hell is the worst suffering possible, worse than anything on this Earth, then how does Jesus suffer for those that have sinned by being crucified? I know that other things happened, he got stabbed by a spear, shit was probably thrown at him, people swearing him and such... but Hell would be worse if it is infact, the worst suffering imaginable.

So is Jesus in Hell?

The Bible says that people that were not exposed to the message of Jesus get a free ride to Heaven. How does this work? If people did infact go to Hell like the people said in an above post, how do these people get to heaven while they didn't? And how come they don't get seperated from God even though they sin?

The overall question:

Why would sin disconnect us from God?

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

Well if Jesus existed which he probably did since Jesus wasn't exactly the rarest name ever, i mean you can be called it now, he was just a preacher of peace who was a strong Jew.

Bible wise:

I'd like to know more about Jesus as he was growing up as he is a baby then suddenly like 20( im guessing but i mean young adult), so his childhood would have been interesting, can't see why no one would have written about Gods son as a child since they worshiped him as a baby. I wonder what he did with his abilities, mischief probably ,lol.

( However the arch bishop of Canterbury recently said and wrote that in his opinion, the story of Jesus's birth apart from it being a virgin birth and him being son of God, is a myth. He said there were no kings visiting him, no gifts, the Sheppard's were simply watching their flocks as they usually did, they did not go to worship him, etc etc. He seemed to criticize Matthews gospel, saying it's only written there
and it sounds more like a story to exaggerate Jesus's importance as a baby)

I also wonder why in one instance Jesus says he and his father are not one being yet also says they are. It is accepted they are, but is unusual.

I'd love to know more about Christ's life as well, however I'm sure that we have everything that's important to know. As far as his birth goes, it probably wasn't the classic nativity scene that we all know but that's not to important is it?
The belief that God the father and his son were not the same person was not adopted until AD. 325. I believe that they are two separate and distinct beings. It is my belief and the belief of my church that when Christ says, "He who hath seen me hath seen my Father," he means that they are the same in appearance and purpose, not that they are the same person.

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

BUT MY MAIN question is...

God warns us of false prophets and idols and Satan all tricking us. How they will be clever and tell an inch from the truth. He said not to follow one who claims to be equal to him or more powerful, and not to fall for tricks, basically only follow God no matter what. SO why was Jesus believed by so many? Surely like the rest of the Jews. They should have just treated him as a mad preacher( well they think he was good, but it sounds mad to claim to be son of God) or even as a trick from Satan or a heretic for trying to make them worship him to. As many Christians seem to think of Jesus more then God, i mean at my school church it's always about what Jesus di and how Jesus is. Maybe they are worshiping a false idol? Maybe they will be punished and go to hell at death, an interesting and ironic twist if it's true( trying to convert so many into what is actually a doomed existence)

God is not dead. Ask him in real sincirity and faith about Christ and you'll recive an answer.

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

BUT MY MAIN question is...

God warns us of false prophets and idols and Satan all tricking us. How they will be clever and tell an inch from the truth. He said not to follow one who claims to be equal to him or more powerful, and not to fall for tricks, basically only follow God no matter what. SO why was Jesus believed by so many? Surely like the rest of the Jews. They should have just treated him as a mad preacher( well they think he was good, but it sounds mad to claim to be son of God) or even as a trick from Satan or a heretic for trying to make them worship him to. As many Christians seem to think of Jesus more then God, i mean at my school church it's always about what Jesus di and how Jesus is. Maybe they are worshiping a false idol? Maybe they will be punished and go to hell at death, an interesting and ironic twist if it's true( trying to convert so many into what is actually a doomed existence)

Good point. I've heard many a Baptist and Methodist claim the same accusations upon the Catholics for their worship of Mary among other things. So Jewish is the way to go?

Originally Posted by 27

God is not dead. Ask him in real sincirity and faith about Christ and you'll recive an answer.

Where'd you get that out of the above quote? I think I read the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

If Hell is the worst suffering possible, worse than anything on this Earth, then how does Jesus suffer for those that have sinned by being crucified? I know that other things happened, he got stabbed by a spear, shit was probably thrown at him, people swearing him and such... but Hell would be worse if it is infact, the worst suffering imaginable.

So is Jesus in Hell?

Awesome question. The answer is, the cross was not the suffering. His suffering began in the garden of Gethsemane. It was there that he sweat great drops of blood. From then until his death on the cross he suffered the full weight of sin for all mankind. There is to much emphases placed on the nails in his hands, the spear in his side, and his other physical tortures. They do not compare to the true sacrifice he paid.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

The Bible says that people that were not exposed to the message of Jesus get a free ride to Heaven. How does this work? If people did infact go to Hell like the people said in an above post, how do these people get to heaven while they didn't? And how come they don't get seperated from God even though they sin?

The overall question:

Why would sin disconnect us from God?

That's misinterpreting the bible. Those who have died, and didn't get the chance to hear the gospel will still have to earn their salvation on the other side. The issue is with accountability. If someone who has hear the gospel and knows of its truth and someone who hasn't live equally sinful lives, who has committed the greater sin? Of corse it would be the person who has heard the gospel. Everyone is given an equal chance in the end.

[Edit] Stephent, I meant that if he had doubts about the divinity of Jesus Christ, the only way to get an answer would be to ask God about it.

Originally Posted by 27

Awesome question. The answer is, the cross was not the suffering. His suffering began in the garden of Gethsemane. It was there that he sweat great drops of blood. From then until his death on the cross he suffered the full weight of sin for all mankind. There is to much emphases placed on the nails in his hands, the spear in his side, and his other physical tortures. They do not compare to the true sacrifice he paid.


That's misinterpreting the bible. Those who have died, and didn't get the chance to hear the gospel will still have to earn their salvation on the other side. The issue is with accountability. If someone who has hear the gospel and knows of its truth and someone who hasn't live equally sinful lives, who has committed the greater sin? Of corse it would be the person who has heard the gospel. Everyone is given an equal chance in the end.

[Edit] Stephent, I meant that if he had doubts about the divinity of Jesus Christ, the only way to get an answer would be to ask God about it.

So he bore the weight of people's sins for how long? I'd imagine around two years since the Bible skips to age 30 unless he started before the infamous age gap.

Is two years of suffering for everybody worth eternal suffering for one person? Doing the math, unless there are constantly people being born that equal the constant suffering of one person, which should be near impossible since there's not infinity people on earth, suffering for two years wouldn't be as much suffering as Hell still.

And Jesus is in Heaven apparently because of (I think) Peter's vision/NDE of him in Heaven where I think he saw Jesus. =D

So, if they aren't tested on Earth, non-informed people are tested in the afterlife? If life is but a test to determine the afterlife, then what would be the point of their initial life? God, being the "omnipotent" being that he is could have forseen the inevitable uninforming of those people. Why would their life be untested? Just going thrugh the motions?

Also, if somebody is raised another religion... let's say Buddhist, would this still count for them?

What if a person who's mind has been manipulated to where they believe that another religion is the right religion (the human mind is one to be manipulated no matter what you think). They could be informed but not convert because their mind is already completelly set on the religion that they have known all their life. What then?

No matter what you think, your mind has been manipulated somewhat and influenced to do the same concept. I can see it through your writing. While it could be called close-mindedness, it can be called human nature also. A binding to something as deep, emotional, and so much of a person as spirituality is something that is hard if not impossible to break from.

Even though it may be hard to imagine for some people, you may be one, people see other religions as the right religion just as much as you see Christianity. They view it with as much passion, and are sure just as you are that they are following the right path and that you are not. People with just as much intellegence and stance as you. More intellegent with a higher stance than you even, just as there are some in your religion. Yet both of you feel that they are both right. There must be some sort of median somewhere. An all loving, forgiving, and just God would surely see this and wouldn't send most of the Earth to Hell for something that they had very little control over. You couldn't control whether you were born in Etheopia, India, or Michigan, you couldn't control your parent's views on religion, and you couldn't control the upbringing you got from them. Most of the time, people can't control the impact that that upbringing had on them, and the improbability that their brains will allow them to change a huge portion of their life as such.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

So he bore the weight of people's sins for how long? I'd imagine around two years since the Bible skips to age 30 unless he started before the infamous age gap.

Is two years of suffering for everybody worth eternal suffering for one person? Doing the math, unless there are constantly people being born that equal the constant suffering of one person, which should be near impossible since there's not infinity people on earth, suffering for two years wouldn't be as much suffering as Hell still.

And Jesus is in Heaven apparently because of (I think) Peter's vision/NDE of him in Heaven where I think he saw Jesus. =D

It wasn't two years, as I said, his suffering began in the garden of Gethsemane, which was 3 days before his crucifixion. In those three days he bore the combined suffering of everyone sins. It was not physical pain. It couldn't have been, he could not have suffered enough. In three days he suffered as much as the rest of mankind would have suffered for eternity. The amount of pain he bore is incomprehensible.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

So, if they aren't tested on Earth, non-informed people are tested in the afterlife? If life is but a test to determine the afterlife, then what would be the point of their initial life? God, being the "omnipotent" being that he is could have forseen the inevitable uninforming of those people. Why would their life be untested? Just going thrugh the motions?

Testing isn't the only purpose for us coming to earth. We must also gain a body. Receiving a body is important to our eternal progression.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

Also, if somebody is raised another religion... let's say Buddhist, would this still count for them?

I believe that every religion has some degree of light and truth. If a Buddhist was truly living his religion, I don't think he'd have much to repent for. But would they still have a chance to accept the full gospel on the other side? Yes.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

What if a person who's mind has been manipulated to where they believe that another religion is the right religion (the human mind is one to be manipulated no matter what you think). They could be informed but not convert because their mind is already completelly set on the religion that they have known all their life. What then?

Again, all religions have some degree of truth. There will be no doubt of the truth of the gospel in the next world. The mind may be able to be manipulated, the soul is not

Originally Posted by Stephent91

No matter what you think, your mind has been manipulated somewhat and influenced to do the same concept. I can see it through your writing. While it could be called close-mindedness, it can be called human nature also. A binding to something as deep, emotional, and so much of a person as spirituality is something that is hard if not impossible to break from.

I am open to whatever I feel God tells me is true. I believe I have found the truth. No, you won't be able to change my mind, just as I do not expect to change yours. That's not our goal here. Only He can influence my beliefs.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

Even though it may be hard to imagine for some people, you may be one, people see other religions as the right religion just as much as you see Christianity. They view it with as much passion, and are sure just as you are that they are following the right path and that you are not. People with just as much intellegence and stance as you. More intellegent with a higher stance than you even, just as there are some in your religion. Yet both of you feel that they are both right. There must be some sort of median somewhere. An all loving, forgiving, and just God would surely see this and wouldn't send most of the Earth to Hell for something that they had very little control over. You couldn't control whether you were born in Etheopia, India, or Michigan, you couldn't control your parent's views on religion, and you couldn't control the upbringing you got from them. Most of the time, people can't control the impact that that upbringing had on them, and the improbability that their brains will allow them to change a huge portion of their life as such.

Don't get me wrong, I know that people as intelligent or more intelligent than me have beliefs that are as strong or stronger than mine. But I do not believe that most of the world will be sent to Hell. I believe that only a handful of those who have come to earth will be sent to a true "Hell". Heh, Mormons have a very different take on the afterlife, it would take to long to explain it all, so I'll say it this again, The issue is accountability. If you don't have a chance to hear the gospel, you can't be punished for it. Only those such as Cain or Judas, people who actually walked with Christ and knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was true, and then rebelled against it will go to a true "Hell".

Yeah, I know some of the Morman's erm... beliefs.

Why do we need a body? I think that my spiritual/mind has a form that if there is an afterlife, that would be what's left. My body is only a means of communicating my mind to others through this Earth I believe.

So, you say that if a Buddhist truly lives his religion he's pretty much good. I like that you are able to say that. Many of the militant Christians that I talk to have told me that I'm going to Hell, that everybody who's not Christian is going to hell, etc. True hypocritism at it's finest.

Them accepting the gospel on the other side... do you mean that they have to convert to Christianity in the afterlife? That's pretty crazy and much of a requirement.

I'll ask you, if you died, and were before God or whatever, and he said, "Do you accept Islam as your religion, Mohammed as the last prophet?" Or something along those lines, what would you say?

The mind can be manipulated but not the soul. Can you clarify the difference? What is the soul without the mind? If the mind is what we think through, it defines our views on religion and spirituality, so your mind would either be your soul, be in your soul, or influence your soul. If the mind is influenced or manipulated in such a way, then the soul would be too. That is my views. The Church might have said some religious crazy shit about the sould that I might not know of though, so by all means.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

Yeah, I know some of the Morman's erm... beliefs.

Watch it... Yeah, our beliefs can seem crazy, but there's a lot of stuff said about us that's totally distorted or completely untrue.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

Why do we need a body? I think that my spiritual/mind has a form that if there is an afterlife, that would be what's left. My body is only a means of communicating my mind to others through this Earth I believe.

When you die you leave your body on earth, but it will be important after the second coming of Christ.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

So, you say that if a Buddhist truly lives his religion he's pretty much good. I like that you are able to say that. Many of the militant Christians that I talk to have told me that I'm going to Hell, that everybody who's not Christian is going to hell, etc. True hypocritism at it's finest.

I completely agree. I get so pissed off when I hear a Christian tell someone they're going to hell (which unfortunatly happens alot on DV. Can I really blame people for hating us?). What happened to "judge not lest ye be judged"?

Originally Posted by Stephent91

Them accepting the gospel on the other side... do you mean that they have to convert to Christianity in the afterlife? That's pretty crazy and much of a requirement.

Does that seem crazy? Oh well, it's what I believe.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

I'll ask you, if you died, and were before God or whatever, and he said, "Do you accept Islam as your religion, Mohammed as the last prophet?" Or something along those lines, what would you say?

If I had no doubt that it was true, I'd be confused I have to admit, but I'd have to say yes.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

The mind can be manipulated but not the soul. Can you clarify the difference? What is the soul without the mind? If the mind is what we think through, it defines our views on religion and spirituality, so your mind would either be your soul, be in your soul, or influence your soul. If the mind is influenced or manipulated in such a way, then the soul would be too. That is my views. The Church might have said some religious crazy shit about the sould that I might not know of though, so by all means.

Hmm, I may not have worded my last post well enough. I guess you can see the mind and the soul as the same thing, just not the mind and the brain. What I meant to say was that in the spirit world, you won't have any doubt as to the truth of the gospel. Someone may be manipulated to believe something that's not true, but that will be gone after death.

Ahhh I see the reworded part.

Maybe not as crazy as me getting the concept of God saying, "Your religion's wrong. You want this one so you can get into heaven?" Haha. That just makes no sense to me. I guess that I think that because I don't really view God as pertaining to any religion and religions more of forming a way to worship God and attain a higher state of existance.

Judge not lest ye be judged won't ever be followed. It's a part of common humans today to judge everybody, stereotype without reason, assume, etc. People suck.

Religions to me are starting to seem more and more like a fairytale that was molded to make something so simple in many ways yet complex in others into terms that people can relate to while taking away of distorting the original message or meaning. I guess this is why I initially decided to part with religion and stick to a more simple path of spirituality. Reminders.

Like the old indian stories that explain various parts of nature.

Apparently I'm not the first to think of any of this because it seems the church as created answers for all of these.

I like your view of spirituality

Even though I see my religion as being the "one, true church on earth", I more or less see other religions as different was of looking at the same thing. There's more than one path to God, and I don't think religion has to be a part of everyone in this life.

Now who said a R/S thread couldn't be constructive?