Two queries troubling a Christian( my friend, help would be really great)

**cuddleyperson** · 12-22-2007 02:53 AM

Hey guys!

Ok so i myself am Atheist but the friend concerned is Christian, quite a strong believer I'd say if we were to rate people.

Anyway he is in a bit of a crisis right now and he's really upset, i think he is confused and may be even questioning his faith. I REALLY don't want him to stop believing and loving God and Jesus. I know how happy it usually makes him to feel God being with him and he's not the strongest of guys, his faith really helps him when he's upset so i need to help him.

OK so sadly he recently lost his Aunty and one of his uncles is sick, so there's two separate disasters that have him so confused/upset. I'm going to separate them into the two problems. Firstly his aunt and secondly his uncle.

1) His aunt had suffered with cancer for a while before she died, a few weeks back. She'd been in hospital for the last few weeks of her life. Now his whole family is Christian and so obviously they were all praying for her recovery throughout her sickness, but alas she did not recover. He was really close to her and this has hit him hard. She was a very nice lady, never hurt anyone, strict follower etc. What he doesn't understand is why God couldn't have let her be in this world longer, she was only 38, not old. He and the family were not praying for anything selfish and Jesus said at one point, ask and you shall receive, which he thought meant if it is a small selfless act and would not effect the world, it would happen as a miracle( well that's how it seems to me, he doesn't talk about it much). Now the obvious response is that God decides when we die, it was God's plan for her. But cancer is not a nice infliction, she suffered in pain for a while. I think the main part of his crisis of faith is not that she died, but that she suffered so much. Basically what had she done to deserve this? Can anyone point me to Bible passages that apply to this situation or some kind of explanation i can give him?

2) He is not incredibly close to his Uncle but family is family. Now his uncle has been recently diagnosed with lung cancer( two cancer diagnosis in a short period of time, poor guy..). Now I'm not sure exactly how bad it is, i don't think he is on his death bed just yet, but he is sick.

This crisis is almost the opposite. Although his Uncle is Christian, he hasn't lead the most "Christian" lifestyle. He is a pretty heavy drinker and smoker and also gambles, isn't the best family man, etc. So what he is worried about is if his uncle were to die now, is he guaranteed to go to Heaven or not? His pretty confident that his Uncle would go to Heaven because he loves Christ( or says so, hmph he doesn't sound like he cares). So what does it take to enter heaven? Unfortunately my personal belief is that he may not go to Heaven according to some part of the Bible. He is committed many sins and since he hasn't stopped it seems he does not care about God and Jesus very much. However there is also repentance, but i can't see how he would be able to repent, if he could then when someone of the wrong faith died they would have a realization and repent. But it clearly states heretics and non-believers go to hell at death, no trail( per se). So how can i assure him, even if i don't agree, that his Uncle is safe?

Any help would be great here, I'm hoping he will work it out by reading the Bible some more, asking others, but he always values my input and i thought if i could show him some Biblical explanations he may have overlooked, it would help et his mind at ease.

**Xaqaria** · 12-22-2007 03:15 PM

I would say you as an atheist should not try to convince him, even if your motivations are for his sake. What you think might be helping him to maintain his faith in order to keep him happy, will actually be you lying (in a way) in order to placate and pacify him which is why many people become disaffected with their religion in the first place. I would say, let him figure it out on his own, and one way or the other he will have to grow as a person in order to understand his beliefs. If he finds renewed faith in Christianity, so be it; and if he decides to look elsewhere for answers then that is his choice to make.

**NonDualistic** · 12-23-2007 03:14 PM

I would reccomend he read the Bhagavad Gita and the Tao Te Ching, keeping an open mind. After I read those texts I could go back and read the words of Christ and they were illuminated in a much different light. The allure was much more clear when tied to those eastern teachings.

In the Christian bible Christ teachings were set in a sort of opposition to what the "religion" of the day was doing/teaching, examples being of his remarks to the pharasies( wrong spelling I'm sure). Modern Christianity and what it teaches has become the same scenario today of what that example was then.
Statements like "seek and you shall find" and "ask and you shall recieve" are indeed powerful truths, but they are "cloaked in shadows." The meaning is not literal as is so commonly accepted, the allure is not towards language and talk as in prayer, or physically seeking. The allure is towards a non-physical reality that escapes the view of most.
Your friend is at a juncture in his life. Your role in this juncture is very important. You see , Christians who blindly believe in the literality of what religion promotes to the letter are lost to the reality behind the teachings of Christ, just as lost as the atheist who crusades in a burn and raze everything that is Christian and that is "God". Both dwell in a mire of ignorance, both are equal.
You wanting to help him without crushing his faith and belief are in the perfect mindset, perfect place and perfect time to really be of sincere and true productive help to your friend.

Your friend has before him a journey that only he can take on his own. HE must find the answers himself, nothing else will do. All I can offer you to share with him is some advice and a few thoughts as a starting place.

There is much more to the teachings that are at the base of Christianity than the "religion" itself would suggest. The "religion" itself is the cloak that covers and the clouds that hide.

All religions seem to be of this same nature, that of a covering that hides whats under it.

The teachings at the base of Christianity are the same teachings that are buried under all religions. There is no difference as these teachings are of the same singular nature.

Reading more of the Bible will be useless really. Read the books I stated above. He should read them in an open mind not focising on difference but on similarity. Read them as if the "god' speaking in the words of the Bible were the same God speaking the words of both the other books. Look for the similarites and let the differences fall away into place on their own. Go from there.

Many people just dont have the outright courage to break free of the conditioning that religion sets upon the individual. It take a fall to bring one to question , and it take the questioning to start looking around for other external signposts, signposts that point the way within oneself for the answers rather than to an outside source that has been the author of the conditioning.

**Never** · 12-23-2007 05:06 PM

Let the truth change him. I understand your concern, but I myself went to at least fifteen funerals when I was a teenager; lost all my relatives. Lies will not ease the pain at all. If your friend cannot be honest with himself, it only makes it harder on him. That is not to say there is no beauty in life, but it lies in nature, not myth.

Christian morals are in opposition to the very laws of nature; the very truth and beauty that we should embrace. When your friend learns to love nature and not fear it, he will be able to exist without being torn.

Nothing can supplant the freedom and personal power one gains with knowledge. We can choose our own destiny and not be controlled; even in the end of life.

**cuddleyperson** · 12-23-2007 07:03 PM

oooo insightful posts people, thanks!

**Replicon** · 12-23-2007 08:43 PM

I think what he needs is to realize that faith doesn't mean "praying will make god fix all his problems". What kind of all-powerful being would he be, were that the case?

Like others have said - let him go on this journey. If he loses faith over this, his faith wasn't that strong to begin with. Or at least, it was misdirected. These are the big moments of insight that help determine someone where to go next. Be there for him as a friend, but his spiritual relationships are a thing that are personal to him alone, and that's how it should be.

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