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    1. #1
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      Why are you an atheist?

      I am not one to argue religion. I find it relatively pointless, just like arguing political sides.

      Because of this, I will not enter a debate and fight against each post. Instead, I will pose a question and simply read the answers.

      My intention is also not to convert anyone, so no hostility please…

      Anyway, I have collected a series of reasons as to why people become atheists.

      1) “I stopped believing in imaginary friends.”

      I find this an extremely silly, not to mention old, criticism. It really isn’t funny anymore…

      Of course, we can go back to the argument of what created the universe? That leads to what created God? Then the natural response is nothing, for He is infinite, having no beginning or end (thus He was not created, nor can He be destroyed).

      One could say, “Why cannot the universe be like this?” Matter can neither be created, nor destroyed as well. The only problem is the universe does operate on the foundation of time. It is a process that had to be initiated at some point, meaning it had a beginning. Whether you believe in the Big Bang, or some other thing, it operates in the dimension of time.

      So, that leads to a metaphysical solution. Maybe the universe has a metaphysical body that does not operate in the restrictions of time. Fine, but I don’t see how that is any less silly than our imaginary friend. In fact, I would say it is even sillier because nothing at all suggests it, whereas there are holy books that do reference a supreme being.

      2) “Oh, the holy books have contradictions all over the place.”

      I do not deny this.

      These ancient books are so old that I would be surprised if they didn’t.

      Seriously, are we all so naïve to think that it was not tampered with and we still have the original version? We even have historical proof that it was tampered with (what with examples like Constantine and the whole Council of Nicaea). We do not know how great it was altered too. Think about it. Religion, especially back then, could control the masses. If the Roman Catholic Church, for example, wanted to control the population they could inspire such things as the sin of sex (why on earth would God make this a sin?) and damnation to hell. People fear death and birth is controlled as well. Really, using religion in such a method is ingenious and quite common (you could even look at American history to find examples).

      3) “I wouldn’t follow a God who punishes anyone that does not believe in Him by sending them to hell.”

      I agree, that would be a terrible thing. I personally don’t believe hell exists. Furthermore, I am under the impression that we all rot in our grave until the Holy Spirit returns to collect us. At this point, we will be given the choice, in the face of God, to accept or renounce Him. Clearly, if He gives you the option, and you still reject Him, I don’t see any reason why you should be allowed to go to heaven.

      I also doubt he will send you to this mythical hell we keep hearing about. Instead, you will remain in an everlasting sleep, which is really no different than what some think already.

      4) “Well, isn’t it in God’s divine power to have made all of this perfect in the first place?”

      There we go again, trying to understand something infinitely beyond us. No matter what your problem is with God and His supposedly contradictory powers, I don’t think anyone can supply ample proof that they have a clue what they are talking about. Let’s face it; we cannot fathom God’s powers, or His divine reason. Don’t even begin to pretend like you do understand it, because the fact is you have no idea.

      One could press further and say that if they were God they would have made everything perfect. That is a completely irrelevant statement, because you are, in fact, not God. Yet again, it shows someone trying to comprehend something that is impossible to comprehend.

      5) “God didn’t give me <insert whiny complaint here>”

      I am not saying everyone here does this, but it really ticks me off when someone renounces God because there Christmas wish-list wasn’t granted. God is not Santa Claus, even though so many pretend he is nothing more than that. God has no commitment to make life perfectly comfortable, and this undeserved sense that he does is simply stupid. I have met people like this and I can’t believe they would become an atheist for that reason alone.

      On a final note, I don’t understand why atheists care about people being “wrong” in the first place. Perhaps, one is spiritual, and just does not partake in theist beliefs. That is fine. I am unaware of any spiritual teachings that incline the spiritual student to mock and disrespect others in other religions, reducing them to things like the belief in imaginary friends. The teachings actually seem to be quite the opposite.

      Instead of wasting time trying to ruin someone’s theist beliefs, would it not be in the right effort to help others better understand the spiritual beliefs that one conducts himself under?

      If the atheist is not spiritual, then I honestly don’t know why they bother to convert others unless they are so insecure that they have to make everyone believe in what they believe in. The only other reason is that they hate people trying to cram it down there throats. These same people have a choice though, and don’t have to read, say, a message board concerning religion <.< >.>

      Why do theists try to convert others? I think it is a multitude of reasons, including doubt, duty, and devotion. Atheists could not possibly have the last two, unless, perhaps, they were spiritual.

      Now, the point of this topic was half (well probably more like three quarters) rant and half to find out why you are an atheist. Certainly, my list is by no means a complete list of reasons. I would like to no other ones, or be reminded of those I forgot.

      Why did you become an atheist?

      Reminder: I do not intend to argue against your posts, so try to avoid directing your comments toward me.

    2. #2
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      Those are very, very weak "reasons."

      Why am I an atheist? Because there is absolutely no evidence to support in any sort of god.

      The contradictions part is a reason why I think CHRISTIANITY is so silly, but realize atheist does not mean "disbelief in an organized religion," just a god or gods.
      I have found that most people turn to religion due to either not being able to comprehend an aspect of the universe, or out of ignorance of a certain part of it. If we do not have something figured out, they say "god did it." One can see that this is a trend in society. In the past, things that were eventually explained by science were first "explained" by religion. For example, a lunar eclipse is god punishing people or someone eating the moon, etc. The fundamentals of religion are flawed, and simply put, there is absolutely no evidence to back it up. No legitimate evidence, that is. Saying "but god says religion is true" and anecdotal evidence is not real "evidence."

      I am not an atheist for any reason that has to do with anger or frustration with religion, but simply because there is NO reason to be a theist.

    3. #3
      Cosmic Citizen ExoByte's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Icelus View Post
      I am not one to argue religion. I find it relatively pointless, just like arguing political sides.

      Because of this, I will not enter a debate and fight against each post. Instead, I will pose a question and simply read the answers.

      My intention is also not to convert anyone, so no hostility please…

      Anyway, I have collected a series of reasons as to why people become atheists.

      1) “I stopped believing in imaginary friends.”

      I find this an extremely silly, not to mention old, criticism. It really isn’t funny anymore…

      Of course, we can go back to the argument of what created the universe? That leads to what created God? Then the natural response is nothing, for He is infinite, having no beginning or end (thus He was not created, nor can He be destroyed).

      One could say, “Why cannot the universe be like this?” Matter can neither be created, nor destroyed as well. The only problem is the universe does operate on the foundation of time. It is a process that had to be initiated at some point, meaning it had a beginning. Whether you believe in the Big Bang, or some other thing, it operates in the dimension of time.

      So, that leads to a metaphysical solution. Maybe the universe has a metaphysical body that does not operate in the restrictions of time. Fine, but I don’t see how that is any less silly than our imaginary friend. In fact, I would say it is even sillier because nothing at all suggests it, whereas there are holy books that do reference a supreme being.

      Where are there are also many books that say god doesn't exist. So in essence, its not "sillier." The whole point is its just a baseless book that says god exists and that there are people who believe in him. Whereas there are books who make educated, well thought out, supported claims on why god doesn't exist. Therefore, in this situation, against your argument, your book is sillier.

      Not to mention the whole imaginary friends thing is truth. Your argument that its "old" is pathetic. So is your damn Bible yet you still believe in it. The point is that Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy. These were things many, many children grew up with and were told were real. Even if you weren't, it acts on the same principle of being told god exists. Indoctrination is all it is.


      2) “Oh, the holy books have contradictions all over the place.”

      I do not deny this.

      These ancient books are so old that I would be surprised if they didn’t.

      Seriously, are we all so naïve to think that it was not tampered with and we still have the original version? We even have historical proof that it was tampered with (what with examples like Constantine and the whole Council of Nicaea). We do not know how great it was altered too. Think about it. Religion, especially back then, could control the masses. If the Roman Catholic Church, for example, wanted to control the population they could inspire such things as the sin of sex (why on earth would God make this a sin?) and damnation to hell. People fear death and birth is controlled as well. Really, using religion in such a method is ingenious and quite common (you could even look at American history to find examples).

      So you admit to willingly following an organization that has lied, killed, threatened and tampered with sacred writings only for the purpose to control you? Be aware that its this same tampered with book that you're putting your trust into, to believe in god. Even if you don't put your belief in the book, realize the idea of god still exists solely because of these people.


      3) “I wouldn’t follow a God who punishes anyone that does not believe in Him by sending them to hell.”

      I agree, that would be a terrible thing. I personally don’t believe hell exists. Furthermore, I am under the impression that we all rot in our grave until the Holy Spirit returns to collect us. At this point, we will be given the choice, in the face of God, to accept or renounce Him. Clearly, if He gives you the option, and you still reject Him, I don’t see any reason why you should be allowed to go to heaven.

      I also doubt he will send you to this mythical hell we keep hearing about. Instead, you will remain in an everlasting sleep, which is really no different than what some think already.

      This has no real relevance to an Atheist not believing in god, unless you wish to expand on that.


      4) “Well, isn’t it in God’s divine power to have made all of this perfect in the first place?”

      There we go again, trying to understand something infinitely beyond us. No matter what your problem is with God and His supposedly contradictory powers, I don’t think anyone can supply ample proof that they have a clue what they are talking about. Let’s face it; we cannot fathom God’s powers, or His divine reason. Don’t even begin to pretend like you do understand it, because the fact is you have no idea.

      One could press further and say that if they were God they would have made everything perfect. That is a completely irrelevant statement, because you are, in fact, not God. Yet again, it shows someone trying to comprehend something that is impossible to comprehend.
      Yet again, another Christian forming a shield bubble.

      For the longest time people believed god was in the sky, because we didn't understand the sky. Didn't understand the clouds or the blue colour. Then we find out what the sky is, and god is now outside time, which we don't yet fully understand. god keeps moving to places science can't understand. When science finally does, god will move again. Its merely a shield method to ignorantly keep your precious beliefs safe.


      5) “God didn’t give me <insert whiny complaint here>”

      I am not saying everyone here does this, but it really ticks me off when someone renounces God because there Christmas wish-list wasn’t granted. God is not Santa Claus, even though so many pretend he is nothing more than that. God has no commitment to make life perfectly comfortable, and this undeserved sense that he does is simply stupid. I have met people like this and I can’t believe they would become an atheist for that reason alone.
      This is also irrelevant. An Atheist can't say "God didn't give me <whatever>" because an Atheist doesn't believe in god. What you're describing is someone with a grudge against god, which means they're a god believer, not an Atheist. This point fails.

      On a final note, I don’t understand why atheists care about people being “wrong” in the first place. Perhaps, one is spiritual, and just does not partake in theist beliefs. That is fine. I am unaware of any spiritual teachings that incline the spiritual student to mock and disrespect others in other religions, reducing them to things like the belief in imaginary friends. The teachings actually seem to be quite the opposite.

      Instead of wasting time trying to ruin someone’s theist beliefs, would it not be in the right effort to help others better understand the spiritual beliefs that one conducts himself under?
      Why do we have a problem with people being "wrong?"

      Because those people are deluded. They follow an imaginary being that has killed hundreds of millions of people, that is the basis of religious organizations that have murdered countless people, waged pointless wars for the same reason: To prove someone wrong. Many people's lives have been ruined, or taken, because of religion. Many of which were taken by god himself if the bible is correct.

      Not only that, but religious organizations have held back science and advancement. They've held back our development as humans, and have used their political power to control people and tell them what they can and can't do.


      If the atheist is not spiritual, then I honestly don’t know why they bother to convert others unless they are so insecure that they have to make everyone believe in what they believe in. The only other reason is that they hate people trying to cram it down there throats. These same people have a choice though, and don’t have to read, say, a message board concerning religion <.< >.>

      Why do theists try to convert others? I think it is a multitude of reasons, including doubt, duty, and devotion. Atheists could not possibly have the last two, unless, perhaps, they were spiritual.

      There is a massive, massive difference between Religious/god believing and Spiritual. Never make the assumption that an Atheist isn't spiritual. There are many spiritual Atheists. Take the Buddhists for example. They're an Atheistic religion and extremely spiritual.

      And again, as for "converting." Read the previous response.


      Why did you become an atheist?
      Because god doesn't exist.

      Reminder: I do not intend to argue against your posts, so try to avoid directing your comments toward me.
      Shield. I don't care if you don't intend to argue, but frankly expect to have comments directed towards you when making some of the claims that you have.
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      Why don't you believe in the greek gods? Your answer to that question will answer the question you're asking of the atheists.

    5. #5
      When the ink runs out... Kushna Mufeed's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Replicon View Post
      Why don't you believe in the greek gods? Your answer to that question will answer the question you're asking of the atheists.
      I believe in one God. The Greek gods are many. Why don't I believe in the Greek gods instead of my one God? Because the heavens and the earth would be in chaos if there existed more than one diety.

      Is that why you're an atheist?

      Quote Originally Posted by Jeff777 View Post
      I am not sorry or empathetic whatsoever for saying that I believe the world would be much better off without people like you in it. Have a great fucking day.
      [broken link removed]The Dynamics of Segrival[/URL]
      Discuss Segrival here
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      Good point by Replicon.

      And a little more extreme example...
      Why don't you believe in the flying spaghetti monster?

    7. #7
      Cosmic Citizen ExoByte's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed View Post
      I believe in one God. The Greek gods are many. Why don't I believe in the Greek gods instead of my one God? Because the heavens and the earth would be in chaos if there existed more than one diety.
      The earth is in chaos

      Not sure how heaven's doing though, haven't been there in a while.
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    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Replicon View Post
      Why don't you believe in the greek gods? Your answer to that question will answer the question you're asking of the atheists.
      Ditto



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      Quote Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed View Post
      I believe in one God. The Greek gods are many. Why don't I believe in the Greek gods instead of my one God? Because the heavens and the earth would be in chaos if there existed more than one diety.

      Is that why you're an atheist?
      I don't think multiple Gods would cause chaos. Unless they had very human traits such as jealousy( as the Christian God does), anger, hate, prejudice, opposing views etc. But really a group of beings that knew everything and do do everything would come to the exact same conclusions about everything as they would always think up the perfect solution. So unless you insult God by portraying him as a rowdy human, say like the Labour party in England( those guys always fight amongst themselves, like all political parties), then i think one God or 10 Gods, the result would be the same.

      Also i believe the world is quite chaotic as it is. There are a multitude of opposing religions and opposing Gods( so really there are multiple waring Gods right now) which causes violence world wide. There are also many millions suffering because their ecosystem cannot support them, Say the middle of Africa, were water can be scarce and crops often die. This is not a fault of man, these people are almost doomed to forever pass on illnesses that kill around half of their population unless outsiders help( even then defeating aids and somehow terraforming Africa to support more sustainable crops is impossible at present).

      Anyway that's my English tuppence
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    10. #10
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      Lets start out from the beginning.

      Originally indoctrinated into Christianity (mostly by my Grandma), I was pretty much a Bible thumping Christian until around age 13. I had gone to tons of Christian camps, visited Church not so frequent, but still, I did. Just went along with whatever they were saying to me.

      At about age 11-12, I started listening to excess amounts of music. Researching it, listening to everything I could get my hands on, that was good. I traced music into the 70s, the 60s, and am still going farther. A bunch of this music seemed to opened my mind up to thinking a lot (soberly). I became very interested in philosophy and psychology. Soon enough, I was debating religion. The original concept that I came up with was that everybody is different, thus, nobody could follow the same belief system without apparent contradictions to our own physiology and knowledge. I began to realize the very apparent tactics that were being used in organized religion. Fear, indoctrination, various controlling attributes, bias, propaganda, etc. It isn't very much a question of belief there, it is very visible is one is not oppressing themselves from sight. Then I realized that the Bible is void because it was written by men, thus putting your faith on the Bible is putting your faith in men. I didn't think that the basis of one's entire life should be what men from 2000-6000 years ago wrote down during an age of of barely beginning to understand anything. I also began to look at other religions and find out what the differences and theology was of them.

      Deist-ish now, I started thinking more, thinking about all the different contradictions and illogicalities of the concept of God. Wondering about it a lot, thinking a lot...

      Lots of thoughts.

      Eventually I became Agnostic. I started debating religion nearly every day, did research, etc. Lots of arguing, discussing, and debating.

      So yeah, I'm pretty much weak-Atheist / Agnostic or something along those lines.

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      Why don't you believe in the Tooth Faeiry?

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      [QUOTE=ExoByte;722086]
      Where are there are also many books that say god doesn't exist. So in essence, its not "sillier." The whole point is its just a baseless book that says god exists and that there are people who believe in him. Whereas there are books who make educated, well thought out, supported claims on why god doesn't exist. Therefore, in this situation, against your argument, your book is sillier.

      Not to mention the whole imaginary friends thing is truth. Your argument that its "old" is pathetic. So is your damn Bible yet you still believe in it. The point is that Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy. These were things many, many children grew up with and were told were real. Even if you weren't, it acts on the same principle of being told god exists. Indoctrination is all it is.


      Just to clarify, I am not talking about books that say God does or does not exist. I am talking about literature that describe the existence of a metaphysical universe.

      Also, my argument against the imaginary friend thing wasn’t that it is old o_O

      This is also irrelevant. An Atheist can't say "God didn't give me <whatever>" because an Atheist doesn't believe in god. What you're describing is someone with a grudge against god, which means they're a god believer, not an Atheist. This point fails.

      Let’s clarify that people can in fact spite someone to the extent of not believing in him. In this case, it is God. Now, whether or not it is a good reason is not the point.


      There is a massive, massive difference between Religious/god believing and Spiritual. Never make the assumption that an Atheist isn't spiritual. There are many spiritual Atheists. Take the Buddhists for example. They're an Atheistic religion and extremely spiritual.


      I appear to be on a different wavelength here. I never implied that atheists are not spiritual… I did imply that some aren’t, because I have met some that aren’t even remotely spiritual. Don’t be so defensive and read my posts please…

      And I am sorry for apparent misunderstandings.

      Anyway, ty for the responses guys. I am glad some people here break the mold. I have met too many people in college that throw away God for very lame reasons, such as the ones I listed. I have seen them do it for each and everyone of them.

      I still see the “tooth fairy” reason thrown around. I am not sure why people compare things like the tooth fairy to something that has been around for thousands of years, but whatever and (whether accepted or not), does bring spiritual guidance to a population for generations. Oh well.

      Keep it coming!

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      Cosmic Citizen ExoByte's Avatar
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      I still see the “tooth fairy” reason thrown around. I am not sure why people compare things like the tooth fairy to something that has been around for thousands of years
      Atheism has been around longer than Theism.
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      Well let's see:

      1. Both are imaginary
      2. Both have no proof
      3. Both are drilled into the minds of small children
      4. Both are benevolent

      Differences:

      1. The tooth faeiry is not strictly enforced as being real
      2. God is just an overthough form of the tooth faeiry.

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      Revd Sir Stephen, Ph.D StephenT's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Icelus View Post
      I still see the “tooth fairy” reason thrown around. I am not sure why people compare things like the tooth fairy to something that has been around for thousands of years, but whatever and (whether accepted or not), does bring spiritual guidance to a population for generations. Oh well.
      So, in 2000 years, will the Tooth Fairy become real? Is there a certain age that a mythical being becomes real? Please tell me so that I can begin to create the one that I want to become real.

      Age has nothing to do with it.

      As for spiritual guidance, people get spiritual guidance from so many things, people, and Gods, that it's impossible for that argument to become anything close to logical and valid. Just because something appears to be helping somebody (when you could probably very easily prove that it is the human mind that is creating the solutions) doesn't make it true.

      Listening to the album and movie Tommy by The Who gave me spiritual insight into myself (made me think a lot and come up with conclusions about R/S). Does that make Pete Townshend a God?

      Greek mythology has been around longer than Christianity, and Paganism has been around longer than Judaism. Does this make mythology and Paganism true?

      I am not sure why somebody would call the Tooth Fairy theory ridiculous, without even attempting to make the connection. Seems pretty ignorant and arrogant, don't you think?

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      Icelus - How long it has been around, why it was made, and how many people are behind it does not invalidate it, and it is a logical fallacy to think so.

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      Im more agnostic but I share similar views as many here. I'm yet to have any religious person point out a valid reason for believing in thier god, and I can't find one myself. Its usually that they appeal to emotion, authority or are just easily overwhelmed and closed minded. No actual reasons or evidence though...
      Christianity is just as crazy as Scientology, i find the whole premise absurd.

      I suppose you could help by telling me why you believe in the Christian god. Any evidence not created by man that directly points to your god existing.
      God is a claim of the religious, and its up to the religious to prove him. Just like science claims evolution and attempts to prove it. The burdon of proof is on you and until then why should anyone believe?

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      My religious evolution is simple
      Christian->Atheist->Wicca

      I was raised Catholic and around the age of 13 i kept asking myself if the Christian god loves everyone, then why do they get sent to hell. Not finding an answer i turned to atheism. Then i found WIcca. All of it's principals and ideals synergized with my own personal beliefs. Want proof of the deities i worship? Go outside and look at anything natural and you are looking at them. Wiccans worship nature, usually broken down into a God and a Goddess for easy worship. any questions?

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      Yes:

      Where are the gods and goddesses?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Replicon View Post
      Why don't you believe in the greek gods? Your answer to that question will answer the question you're asking of the atheists.
      (yeah yeah, self-quotation is the ultimate narcissism, blah blah)

      I do think my point was a bit unfair. While Stephen Roberts sounds very eloquent in his "I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." quote, we have to face the fact that it's a flawed argument. There's a HUGE difference between the notions of believing in one god versus many, and zero gods versus one.

      The really simple answer for me is, faith based on something I was told by someone else who has faith (and so on and so forth) is insufficient for me. I like to discover. Sure enough, I was catholic at first. It didn't take me very long to realize that there is absolutely zero correlation between "whether you're religious" and "whether you're a good person" (whatever that means). I also noticed that I only "believed" in any such thing because that's what I was kind of brought up in (though not too hardcore).

      High school was when I really started shedding some of this extra baggage. I was living my life the same way regardless, and it really felt like the religious label was not so much faith as it was fashion. I was scared at first... I mean, will these beliefs not allow me into heaven? But then I realized that only an asshole god would want us to live in fear.

      So I went from theist to deist. I still felt like something had to have started it. But the whole, "he impregnated a virgin so he could kill said baby, and he loves us, but we go to hell if we don't do what he says, blah blah" stuff started to feel more and more like nonsense. I mean, people believe that either because they are told from early childhood, or because they read it in the bible.

      Ultimately, I became agnostic because we'll never know. "Religion" is the human/mortal's way of wrapping their heads around something they can't possibly wrap their heads around. Unfortunately, when people are too passionate about it, you get the senseless idiocy called "holy wars" that lead to all those unnecessary deaths, but I digress.

      What it all boils down to is, I've found a different way to come to terms with the unknowable.

    21. #21
      Your cat ate my baby Pyrofan1's Avatar
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      Where are the gods and goddesses?
      Everywhere, like i said Wiccans worship nature, but it's easier to worship personifications of nature than nature itself.
      Why don't you believe in the greek gods?
      some Wiccans do, but not me i like to keep it simple with one god and one goddess.

    22. #22
      Consciousness Itself Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Replicon View Post
      Why don't you believe in the greek gods? Your answer to that question will answer the question you're asking of the atheists.
      Yep.

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=T0_J2cAgKi0&feature=related
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

    23. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pyrofan1 View Post
      Everywhere, like i said Wiccans worship nature, but it's easier to worship personifications of nature than nature itself.
      How can you worship "nature"? Isn't everything nature? Sckyscrapers and mattresses are just as natural as termite mounds and bird's nests.

    24. #24
      Your cat ate my baby Pyrofan1's Avatar
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      How can you worship "nature"?
      It can be as simple as hugging a tree and thanking it for the oxygen, thanking a berry bush for providing food or by reducing emissions.

      Isn't everything nature? Sckyscrapers and mattresses are just as natural as termite mounds and bird's nests.
      yeah, i guess.

    25. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pyrofan1 View Post
      It can be as simple as hugging a tree and thanking it for the oxygen, thanking a berry bush for providing food or by reducing emissions.
      Emissions are natural, and so is logging. Right?

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