Thread: The Most Complex Thing Of All time...

If you buy into what that Lee Strobel guy says about intelligence behind DNA... what makes you believe that it was some God?
Surely it would be more reasonable to believe that aliens made us using that reasoning?
And why does it have to be the Christian God?

Originally Posted by Liquidnine

If you buy into what that Lee Strobel guy says about intelligence behind DNA... what makes you believe that it was some God?
Surely it would be more reasonable to believe that aliens made us using that reasoning?
And why does it have to be the Christian God?

Good Question...

This might answer it...

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.ph...a41b58f1ad38c6

Take Care

DJ

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

Good Question...

This might answer it...

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.ph...a41b58f1ad38c6

Take Care

DJ

LOL
"truth by the criterion of embarrassment"
Made my day.

P.S. The video doesn't answer the questions at all.

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.ph...e94650530a3a68

1. Natural selection != abiogenesis
2. We don't know it, so God did it = fail.

Originally Posted by Korittke

LOL
"truth by the criterion of embarrassment"
Made my day.

P.S. The video doesn't answer the questions at all.

It proofs that through time the Christian bible has been accurate even through thousands of years.. So taking that information...Jesus was the son of God (according to the Bible, right?)

The same Bible that has been ridiculed and torn apart, by people saying it has changed over time...as you can see, it has not changed--even over a thousand years... so if it has not changed..and Jesus is the son of GOD.. Common Sense would tell you that it is the CHRISTIAN GOD that stands True through the test of time....

Thanks

DJ

PS: Feel free to show me any FACTUAL Evidence of any other RELIGION and their GOD'S that says they were the one's that created everything...

What people fail to realize is that one single human cell and one single human piece of DNA is the most complex thing scientist have ever discovered...They cannot figure out for the life of them where it came from, because it is so complex... If we are thinking logically... We both know Nothing can make Nothing.. so Something, had to create Something, right?

For a side note.. If you got the time, it is quite interesting to research all the scientist who have done work with DNA and human cells, and became Believers in God because of the complexity of the cells... They ended up losing their jobs, because they didnt share the "Common belief" of Scientist..

The truth is, Scientist have dug themselves a hole, if they were to admit to their mistakes and tell you that they cant really tell you how DNA and human cells were formed, or where we truly came from.. It would shock the good portion of the world... Given the Facts found by scientist themselves and archeologist with all the Evidence supporting the Truth Of the Bible.. and that the bible has stood the test of time and has not changed.. Again we both know that you cannot create Something out of nothing.... So something had to make Something... A Designer...The Bible (with research from both sides of the coin) has come out to be Factual and True about the Origins of Life...

If we are thinking logically again... You wouldn't t try to convince a Judge that you were right without having any facts to back up your statement would you?

Surely you wouldn't... The facts are out there..With Research from both sides of the coin, you will find that The Facts lead to Jesus Christ and God (the creator of the Universe)...

If you still don't believe me...Feel free to explain where the human cells come from or DNA, with all the complexity...Because still til this day, Scientist have yet to find the answer.....The footnote of Gods enormous work...

Take Care

Thanks

DJ

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

It proofs that through time the Christian bible has been accurate even through thousands of years.. So taking that information...Jesus was the son of God (according to the Bible, right?)

So... time for analogies again. If you put a log of shit into the freezer and take it out a year after it will still be a log of shit. But it's a log of shit nonetheless. Only because you assume that you put a brick of gold in there, doesn't mean you'll get a brick of gold when you open it again.

The same Bible that has been ridiculed and torn apart, by people saying it has changed over time...as you can see, it has not changed--even over a thousand years...

So...? You are assuming that the bible was true at the time it was written. Provide non-scriptural evidence for this claim. "Truth from embarrassment" IS NOT AN ARGUMENT, ITS A JOKE.

PS: Feel free to show me any FACTUAL Evidence of any other RELIGION and their GOD'S that says they were the one's that created everything...

All the arguments you name apply to all scriptures.

What people fail to realize is that one single human cell and one single human piece of DNA is the most complex thing scientist have ever discovered...

Uhh... no. It's fairly simple actually. You can understand it as a high-schooler.

They cannot figure out for the life of them where it came from, because it is so complex... If we are thinking logically... We both know Nothing can make Nothing.. so Something, had to create Something, right?

No, not right.

For a side note.. If you got the time, it is quite interesting to research all the scientist who have done work with DNA and human cells, and became Believers in God because of the complexity of the cells... They ended up losing their jobs, because they didnt share the "Common belief" of Scientist..

Jews did WTC.

Again we both know that you cannot create Something out of nothing.... So something had to make Something...

This doesn't make any sense.

If you still don't believe me...Feel free to explain where the human cells come from or DNA, with all the complexity...Because still til this day, Scientist have yet to find the answer.....The footnote of Gods enormous work...

"2. We don't know it, so God did it = fail."

Originally Posted by Korittke

So... time for analogies again. If you put a log of shit into the freezer and take it out a year after it will still be a log of shit. But it's a log of shit nonetheless. Only because you assume that you put a brick of gold in there, doesn't mean you'll get a brick of gold when you open it again.

So...? You are assuming that the bible was true at the time it was written. Provide non-scriptural evidence for this claim. "Truth from embarrassment" IS NOT AN ARGUMENT, ITS A JOKE.

All the arguments you name apply to all scriptures.

Uhh... no. It's fairly simple actually. You can understand it as a high-schooler.No, not right.

Jews did WTC.

This doesn't make any sense.
"2. We don't know it, so God did it = fail."

You talk about non scriptural evidence, you must of not watched any of my video's, because its all SCIENCE, not SCRIPTURE...

So like i said, scientist say they cannot figure out where DNA and Human cells come from, and that nothing cannot create something.. Something had to create something.. Well if this is not true, that somehow NOTHING can just somehow create SOMETHING... Feel free to prove me and science wrong.. You seem to know it all, so please.. Feel free to tell me where DNA and human cell's came from...

another thing for you to think about.. Look at a pen or pencil sometime.. You and I both know that it just didnt appear before you in a blink of an eye...You or someone you know picked it up from a store or somewhere, and that pen/pencil got delivered on a truck, from the factory that it was DESIGNED IN.. so, we both know, someone created/designed that pen right?

Well why is it when it comes to thinking that there could possibly be a Designer of all things (even human cells and DNA) that it gets shot down, but we easily accept the fact that a pen was DESIGNED?

So please, feel free to give FACTUAL EVIDENCE that shows where Human Cells came from along with DNA... Because scientist have yet to figure that out, and I hardly doubt you will either...

By the way your attitude is, it seems like you have the answer, which you would be the first person on the face of the planet to have discovered where DNA and human cells came from...So please tell me...Where did they come from...

And your comment about Cells are easy to understand,but yet scientist cant explain the complexity and how enormous they really or, or even began to understand them fully...Not only, that still doesnt explain where they came from... Which is the biggest point you missed out of my topics...

And for you not to understand the simple phrase "You cant create something out of Nothing.. something had to create something" how can you sit and tell me you can understand DNA and human cells when you dont even understand that simple phrase.....You say a high schooler can understand it, well, then why cant you?

Why can't nothing create something? What about quantum mechanics?
And objectively looking, the pen did just appear by itself. You see we are just molecules floating in this void of space and that pen just happened to appear due to a sequence of events called evolution. Can't you comprehend that atoms started to bind and connect into more complex formes untill they got to a point where they have become aware of "themselves". To me this is the most amazing thing and no Jesuses or Gods can top that. Especially because they are irrelevant and unproven. As some physicist douring a presentation of CERN said, "This is what hydrogen atoms do after billions of years.". You can't do science subjectively, "Universe was made and designed by somebody because it is so beautiful, well made, fits perfectly etc.". There is no such thing as usefullness or design in the universe. Things just are.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Why can't nothing create something? What about quantum mechanics?
And objectively looking, the pen did just appear by itself. You see we are just molecules floating in this void of space and that pen just happened to appear due to a sequence of events called evolution. Can't you comprehend that atoms started to bind and connect into more complex formes untill they got to a point where they have become aware of "themselves". To me this is the most amazing thing and no Jesuses or Gods can top that. Especially because they are irrelevant and unproven. As some physicist douring a presentation of CERN said, "This is what hydrogen atoms do after billions of years.". You can't do science subjectively, "Universe was made and designed by somebody because it is so beautiful, well made, fits perfectly etc.". There is no such thing as usefullness or design in the universe. Things just are.

That is the biggest piece of deception I have heard in a long time...

So you are saying everything Just evolved by chance...ok...

That statement alone....For everything to be where it is at today and just for it happen by chance, is like dropping a bomb in a junkyard and after it's all said it done having a 69 corvette in mint condition sitting there ready for you to drive...Its impossible...

Ever try watching a blind man finish a Rubic's Cube? Without saying anything to him he would be completely helpless and would never finish it....Take a thousand Blind men all working on a Rubic's Cube together and have them finish it all at the sametime...that my friend, is impossible....

For this earth and universe and for everything to have just happened, is impossible... I use to believe in all that other stuff before I became Saved...thought the same thoughts you did...I know its hard to imagine something designing everything, but one day we will all see....God

This is the last post where I'm going to repeat what I have said previously. You can play ad nauseam with yourself if you wish to do so.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

You talk about non scriptural evidence, you must of not watched any of my video's, because its all SCIENCE, not SCRIPTURE...

Please argue my point and don't just repeat the dogmatic GodTube stuff. Actually try thinking for yourself. Whether or not the bible has been changed is irrelevant to the question of whether or not it is true or not.
The only argument presented in the video is "truth from embarrassment". This argument is so ridiculous, I don't even know how any one can seriously believe this stuff. There are a number of problems:
(1) People actually do lie. According to this argument, any story that sucks ass must be true.
(2) Only because someone writes something down, doesn't mean it's true.

So like i said, scientist say they cannot figure out where DNA and Human cells come from, and that nothing cannot create something.. Something had to create something.. Well if this is not true, that somehow NOTHING can just somehow create SOMETHING... Feel free to prove me and science wrong.. You seem to know it all, so please.. Feel free to tell me where DNA and human cell's came from...

Matter. Life = matter. Non-life = matter.
I hope you are aware that you are the one who holds that something can come from nothing. You are claiming that DNA just popped up somewhere, courtesy of magical sky fairy.

another thing for you to think about.. Look at a pen or pencil sometime.. You and I both know that it just didnt appear before you in a blink of an eye...You or someone you know picked it up from a store or somewhere, and that pen/pencil got delivered on a truck, from the factory that it was DESIGNED IN.. so, we both know, someone created/designed that pen right?

What makes you think a pen and DNA are comparable? Try thinking about your analogies before using them. A pen is a human product. It is designed within the scope of the human social sphere. DNA is outside that sphere.

Well why is it when it comes to thinking that there could possibly be a Designer of all things (even human cells and DNA) that it gets shot down, but we easily accept the fact that a pen was DESIGNED?

Because we know that a pen was designed while all the evidence points to a unintentional evolution of matter that led to DNA. Please provider harder questions.

So please, feel free to give FACTUAL EVIDENCE that shows where Human Cells came from along with DNA... Because scientist have yet to figure that out, and I hardly doubt you will either...

Only because something isn't known doesn't mean God did it. Yawn.

By the way your attitude is, it seems like you have the answer, which you would be the first person on the face of the planet to have discovered where DNA and human cells came from...So please tell me...Where did they come from...

They came from matter.

And your comment about Cells are easy to understand,but yet scientist cant explain the complexity and how enormous they really or, or even began to understand them fully...Not only, that still doesnt explain where they came from... Which is the biggest point you missed out of my topics...

Only because something isn't known doesn't mean God did it. Yawn.

And for you not to understand the simple phrase "You cant create something out of Nothing.. something had to create something" how can you sit and tell me you can understand DNA and human cells when you dont even understand that simple phrase.....You say a high schooler can understand it, well, then why cant you?

Why are you talking about creation all the time? Nothing was ever created. If I put a log of shit into water, it will eventually turn into shitty water.

Living matter evolving from non-living matter isn't "something from nothing", it's "something from something". Specifically, matter from matter. "Something from nothing" is living matter just popping up somewhere because invisible tooth fairy did it.

Now is the last chance not to make yourself look like an idiot.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

That is the biggest piece of deception I have heard in a long time...

So you are saying everything Just evolved by chance...ok...

That statement alone....For everything to be where it is at today and just for it happen by chance, is like dropping a bomb in a junkyard and after it's all said it done having a 69 corvette in mint condition sitting there ready for you to drive...Its impossible...

Ever try watching a blind man finish a Rubic's Cube? Without saying anything to him he would be completely helpless and would never finish it....Take a thousand Blind men all working on a Rubic's Cube together and have them finish it all at the sametime...that my friend, is impossible....

For this earth and universe and for everything to have just happened, is impossible... I use to believe in all that other stuff before I became Saved...thought the same thoughts you did...I know its hard to imagine something designing everything, but one day we will all see....God

What would be more helpful than random analogies would be evidence for your claims. You claim that life cannot come from non-life. Certainly you must be an expert in the field. What's your degree for you to be so knowledgeable?

Big text. Also; If you're so persistent that something can't come from nothing, then what about God? He is something.. from nothing.. And if you say he is the exception to the rule, then we have to conclude it is more logical that actually the universe can be the exception.

I'm sorry, but I can't compare your comparisons to the universe. It's big and since things are possible then they happened. Most likely, not everything possible happened since I don't see a giant cookie "galaxy", but I must say I really wouldn't be that supprised if we ever did find one.

How many universes have you seen happen so that you can calculate "the possibility" of it happening and compare it to a car survinving a violent explosion?

Also things do pop up from "nothing" in vacuum. The possibility of it happening is small, but a car in mint condition could form out of nothing. The possibility of things evolving isn't so small since it happens all the time. Like atoms binding to eacother for example.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Also things do pop up from "nothing" in vacuum. The possibility of it happening is small, but a car in mint condition could form out of nothing. The possibility of things evolving isn't so small since it happens all the time. Like atoms binding to eacother for example.

I find that very hard to believe that things pop up from nothing. Probably because I believe "nothing" doesnt exist. Vacuum is a myth. What we call vacuum is actually energy. Think about it, how can light waves travel without a medium? Anyway I don't know where you got this idea from so don't mind posting your sources

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

D.N.A.

DNA is more complex than God?

God is the most complex thing of all time. Thus, there is Supergod!

Originally Posted by Omicron

Big text. Also; If you're so persistent that something can't come from nothing, then what about God? He is something.. from nothing.. And if you say he is the exception to the rule, then we have to conclude it is more logical that actually the universe can be the exception.

Win Win Win Win Win Win Win ...


Why isn't this argument used more often?

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.ph...3572cbf59eb343

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.ph...e94650530a3a68

D.N.A.

Arguing from ignorance isn't science.

It is even coherent reasoning. All you are doing is taking a baseless assumption to "fill" the "gap" behind DNA.

If you actually cared about the subject then you would read up on it.

Happy reading.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

It proofs that through time the Christian bible has been accurate even through thousands of years.. So taking that information...Jesus was the son of God (according to the Bible, right?)

The same Bible that has been ridiculed and torn apart, by people saying it has changed over time...as you can see, it has not changed--even over a thousand years... so if it has not changed..and Jesus is the son of GOD.. Common Sense would tell you that it is the CHRISTIAN GOD that stands True through the test of time....

Thanks

DJ

PS: Feel free to show me any FACTUAL Evidence of any other RELIGION and their GOD'S that says they were the one's that created everything...

What people fail to realize is that one single human cell and one single human piece of DNA is the most complex thing scientist have ever discovered...They cannot figure out for the life of them where it came from, because it is so complex... If we are thinking logically... We both know Nothing can make Nothing.. so Something, had to create Something, right?

For a side note.. If you got the time, it is quite interesting to research all the scientist who have done work with DNA and human cells, and became Believers in God because of the complexity of the cells... They ended up losing their jobs, because they didnt share the "Common belief" of Scientist..

The truth is, Scientist have dug themselves a hole, if they were to admit to their mistakes and tell you that they cant really tell you how DNA and human cells were formed, or where we truly came from.. It would shock the good portion of the world... Given the Facts found by scientist themselves and archeologist with all the Evidence supporting the Truth Of the Bible.. and that the bible has stood the test of time and has not changed.. Again we both know that you cannot create Something out of nothing.... So something had to make Something... A Designer...The Bible (with research from both sides of the coin) has come out to be Factual and True about the Origins of Life...

If we are thinking logically again... You wouldn't t try to convince a Judge that you were right without having any facts to back up your statement would you?

Surely you wouldn't... The facts are out there..With Research from both sides of the coin, you will find that The Facts lead to Jesus Christ and God (the creator of the Universe)...

If you still don't believe me...Feel free to explain where the human cells come from or DNA, with all the complexity...Because still til this day, Scientist have yet to find the answer.....The footnote of Gods enormous work...

Take Care

Thanks

DJ

Dude just fucking Google "origins of life".

There you go. Instead of pretending you know anything about this why don't you actuallly educate yourself? I know this absolutely a novel idea to you, but you really should try it sometime.

And the Chrisitian God is not a constant. He is conveyed as whatever the conveyor wants him to be.

This is subjective.

Even your holy book has been changed. Dozens of times.

And two thousand years is not all that long for a religion.

God=Nature?

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

God=Nature?

In that case it makes most sense to just call it nature and be done with it, like any other reasonable person.

Originally Posted by Omicron

In that case it makes most sense to just call it nature and be done with it, like any other reasonable person.

I was imposing that.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

I was imposing that.

Good man.

Originally Posted by Korittke

What would be more helpful than random analogies would be evidence for your claims

I luled at that one. This is the creationist/ID way. "Things just randomly getting here by evolution is like a Boeing 747 randomly being built in a junkyard during a tornado" and other such nonsense; ID is built on it.

Let's go over the 2 pieces of "evidence" for ID:
1) Irreducible Complexity - It looks like a machine like (notice the analogy) machines humans build, therefore it is designed. And of course the argument from ignorance, "we don't understand therefore god did it".
2) The Design Inference - Once again, argument from ignorance. "This has such a low probability of happening (IE the world being here and us having the right living conditions, etc) that it must have been designed." I guess therefore it is also designed whenever someone wins the lottery. The multiverse theory is pretty lacking, but still does a much better job of explaining this along with the anthropic principle.

Originally Posted by Omicron

And if you say he is the exception to the rule, then we have to conclude it is more logical that actually the universe can be the exception.

And this is where their argument really breaks apart. If god always was, and he is more complex that we can ever imagine, then why couldn't the minuscule matter that produced the big bang have always existed? Trust me, none of us will EVER get an answer for this.

Just like the argument that something had to exist outside of space and time to create it. Well then for that logic there would have had to have been something outside of outside of space and time to create god outside of space and time to create space and time. And the infinite regression goes on.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Dude just fucking Google "origins of life".

There you go. Instead of pretending you know anything about this why don't you actuallly educate yourself? I know this absolutely a novel idea to you, but you really should try it sometime.

And the Chrisitian God is not a constant. He is conveyed as whatever the conveyor wants him to be.

This is subjective.

Even your holy book has been changed. Dozens of times.

And two thousand years is not all that long for a religion.

I have done research.. I spent 22 years of my life beleveing in what you think is true.. So dont tell me to educate myself when you lack it yourself..

The Bible, (if you want to talk about Educating yourself) has not changed..

Ever heard of the Dead Sea Scroll's? Those were found in 1947.. The originals were dated back over a thousand years.. you want to know whats funny.. They said the same exact thing.. word for word.. so please..dont tell me to educate myself about things, when I know what I am talking about..

2,000 years, your forgetting about all the prophecy's that were predicted in the time of B.C. that came true.. you might want to research a little bit before just blurting out random things that make no sense..

The fact's have been stated, it is your choice to blow them off, just because they dont agree with the way you see things...Every Atheist is the same..

Why dont you do a little bit of research and educate yourself on a guy by the name of Lee Strobel.. He was a professor I believe at Harvard University.. He set out to disprove the bible and everything that was in it.. He was a HARDCORE Atheist... With in his journey of doing so, He ended up becoming a Believer in Jesus Christ... Why? Because there was too much FACTUAL Evidence by Science and Archeologist supporting the Bible and what was in it... The only difference between you and Him.. He was willing to accept the Facts, and not beat around the bush.....

Originally Posted by Wiki

Strobel earned a journalism degree from the University of Missouri and a Master of Studies in Law degree from Yale Law School. He was a journalist for fourteen years, at The Chicago Tribune and other newspapers. Strobel was a teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois, from 1987 to 2000, and of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California from 2000 to 2002, before shifting his focus to his writing and producing his TV show.

...?

You must have meant someone else. That guy became Christian in 1981, what's the big deal? He was a nobody until he started the apologetics stuff (and continues to be to this day).

Originally Posted by Korittke

...?

You must have meant someone else.

no I ment him, he wrote the book A Case For Christ, that was what i was talking about above...

thanks

take care

DJ