Thread: Penn & Teller - New Age Medicine

Everything Penn and Teller does is genius. Their bible episode is still the best though. (BTW can you put NSFW in the post, lol, almost got in trouble there)

yes, because we all know modern western medicine is 100% perfect, without failures or side effects

new age simply means holistic, it is medicine that is meant to heal both the mind, body and spirit simultaneously - not just the body

Originally Posted by juroara

yes, because we all know modern western medicine is 100% perfect, without failures or side effects

new age simply means holistic, it is medicine that is meant to heal both the mind, body and spirit simultaneously - not just the body

Actually, thanks to modern medicine, I'm alive! Amazing stuff, no? Who'd have known something like anti-histamines for asthma sufferers would have had such benefits?

Let's not forget all the work that scientists have done to come up with vaccinations to virtually eradicate smallpox, polio, and help fight off nasty diseases such as tetanus.

Actually, chiropractors help people, its not bullshit...but the rest of the stuff they showed IS bullshit. like that whacko in the desert or reflexology, that stuff looks like a bunch of crap.

But chiropractors are not, they go through years of training and ive actually seen pediatricians goto chiropractors themselves.


I've gone to a chiropractor before, I had major shoulder problems, and they were better in weeks of adjustments.

Don't believe everything penn and teller say, they can be full of bullshit also.

Actually, chiropractors help people, its not bullshit

When did they say something about chiropractor in the show? or are you talking about the quantum spinal aliment therapy?

Don't believe everything penn and teller say, they can be full of bullshit also.

I'm pretty sure they didn't have anything to do with chiropractors in the show.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Actually, chiropractors help people, its not bullshit...but the rest of the stuff they showed IS bullshit. like that whacko in the desert or reflexology, that stuff looks like a bunch of crap.

But chiropractors are not, they go through years of training and ive actually seen pediatricians goto chiropractors themselves.


I've gone to a chiropractor before, I had major shoulder problems, and they were better in weeks of adjustments.

Don't believe everything penn and teller say, they can be full of bullshit also.

It took weeks? My Dad went through some pretty bad shoulder problems caused by a serious racing accident. It took one cortisone injection and three days of pain, but afterwards he said his shoulder went completely back to normal.

Again, the wonders of modern medicine.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Actually, thanks to modern medicine, I'm alive! Amazing stuff, no? Who'd have known something like anti-histamines for asthma sufferers would have had such benefits?

And you're not the only one. Without modern medicine there would be alot more people dead or leading crappy lives.

Quantum spinal alignment... gotta remember that one.

Western Medicine would be a lot better if it wasn't just trying to make money off of people and in the process, eliminate many successful alternatives to it.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Actually, thanks to modern medicine, I'm alive! Amazing stuff, no? Who'd have known something like anti-histamines for asthma sufferers would have had such benefits?

Let's not forget all the work that scientists have done to come up with vaccinations to virtually eradicate smallpox, polio, and help fight off nasty diseases such as tetanus.

chill

seriously have you the same attitude as those men in the videos. are you also a dualistic person and think in absolutes. its one way or the other? my way or the highway?

a lot of people who support new age medicine do not, not support modern medicine. for many its simply and ALTERNATIVE method when the other is not working.

modern medicine and its miracle happens in the hospital, not so much with medicines. anyone is IGNORANT if they think over the counter medicines are 100% okay and good for you. many actually WEAKEN your immune system and can lead to other complications. rather than being educated that medicines aren't so miraculous, when these problems arise, we just take more over the counter medicine for the complications created by medicine. and so forth and so forth. becomming a drug dependent society with weak immune systems.

even cold and flu medicines have been known to weaken the immune system, which is obviously counter productive. which is one reason why so many people get sick again within a week. if their immune system is so weak, they'll just get sick again when the virus mutates.

they've known to cause considerable long term damage to your intestines, which happens to many if you are forced to take long term medications. long term damage to the intestines makes you vulnerable not only to stomach flus and viruses, but cancer and disease in general. a healthy gut is needed to fight off disease.

vaccines, especially the flu vaccine is not - so miraculous. it is actually still under fire. there is evidence, that our miraculous vaccines have only created super viruses. there is actually evidence, showing that vaccines alone did not wipe out viruses. thats not the whole picture. the other half is the fear of the virus stimulated more sanitary behaviors in people.

there are organic medicines for the flu. and everyone I know who has tried organic for the flu, never goes back. many claim that the organic medicine works twice as fast as over the counter. there are even studies showing as to why.

do not go the grocery store and think I mean some medicine that calls itself organic. thats just a cunning label. the real stuff is what you mix at home with raw ingredients. it works, seriously, it works. ive used it for just about every common illness. it works because it works with your own immune system, gives you vitamins, and many plants are natural enemies to viruses and bacteria.

its important to understand, what new age is all about, versus modern. modern is very specific. fix this specific problem. new age is holistic, its about the whole picture. healing the entire body, and even mind. even the organic medicine is not aimed at any specific flu or virus. but it does work against specific flus and viruses because of how much it helps your own body fight off its own problems.

new age and even associated ancient practices, at the heart, is about energy. it is about healing the energy system in your body. whether you call this the chi system, the chakra system, or some other name. this system is believed to be parallel to the nervous system and to supercede it.

westerners quickly laugh when they hear energy and healing put together. this is a complete denial of some of the stranger truths that science has shown us. what runs our nervous system? what runs our heart? what runs our brain, but energy?

new age aims to use energy as a means of healing. the chinese have been doing it for thousands of years and many modern chinese today, still cling to it. because they feel, it works. by stimulating and activating the chi centers. studies show, they can and do stimulate the nervous system, the system that really is connected and controls our entire body. though it is not entirely clear why stimulating the nervous system in certain area would even produce such results. science may not know why, but those who believe in chakras certainly understand.

I'm glad the modern world did a test regarding the placebo effect. showing a sugar pill can actually produce the same results as medicine, longer lasting results. when all that was done was telling some unsuspecting subjects, they were being given medicine, when all it was was a fake pill. why? have you ever considered why believing something will heal you, actually does?

only new age has really taken a deep look into the thought process and how it affects and stimulates the nervous system, which in turn, affects how your body heals itself. because new age looks at the big picture. how the mind affects the body. modern is known for looking at the picture as in separate boxes.

I am not trying to diss modern miracles. actually I think money is the reason why so many over the counter medicines are terrible. Because certainly, when saving a life is more important, in the emergency room, modern medicine has proven to be miraculous.

however, I do feel that modern medicine is reaching its limit viewing medicine as purely a biochemistry thing. its time to adopt the stranger truths of SCIENCE. the teachings of the east. EVERYTHING IS ENERGY. Now its time to look at how energy can heal our bodies under the scrutiny of science. Applying this new age idea, is what will push modern medicine forward.

Spirituality, sorry to say to materialists, is meeting up with science. And science is meeting up with spirituality. head for the hills all ye who don't want to change your boxed up views of reality and life. new age will meet modern!!!

Originally Posted by bluefinger

It took weeks? My Dad went through some pretty bad shoulder problems caused by a serious racing accident. It took one cortisone injection and three days of pain, but afterwards he said his shoulder went completely back to normal.

Again, the wonders of modern medicine.

cortisone doesn't fix the problem, it covers it up.

And you can only get 3 shots in your lifetime, sound safe right?

I'd rather have my shoulder re-adjusted without any drugs injected into me which don't treat the cause, but the symptoms.

Modern medicine often treats the symptoms, and not the root of the problem, THE CAUSE.

They do not want to treat the CAUSE because they will lose future business. Treating the symptoms ensures future doctor visits and future money being funneled into their greedy pockets.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Modern medicine often treats the symptoms, and not the root of the problem, THE CAUSE.

I have always seen the exact opposite happen. This is, of course, excluding the cases where the root of the problem is untouchable (for now), like with genetic problems.

Originally Posted by juroara

Now its time to look at how energy can heal our bodies under the scrutiny of science. Applying this new age idea, is what will push modern medicine forward.

With tuning forks, and quantum alignment therapy.


I wonder if I can use my guitar to cure my allergies...

Originally Posted by guerilla

They do not want to treat the CAUSE because they will lose future business. Treating the symptoms ensures future doctor visits and future money being funneled into their greedy pockets.

Applause, gentleman, applause.

Once I had a very serious... sore throat. Went to 3 different doctors. First one wanted me to buy timomoduline, an incredibly expensive drug which had almost no reports of success. One told me I'd have to undergo 2 surgeries because my nasal cavity was not right and increased my chances of becoming sick. The third one said she wouldn't give me medicine because she thought the case wasn't that serious, told me to get ascorbic acid (vitamin C), and to visit her back if I didn't get any better.

Well, I medicated myself with antibiotics and got better in 2 days.

New age medicine is bullshit and has interest on money, but you can't say modern science is flawless. I completely agree with Penn and Teller for the record, they do amazing work, but they might as well show the flaws of modern science, for the sake of enlightening people. Well, in my case, I know medicine, and I could realise the other doctors were wrong, but many people don't. I say and repeat: never go to a single doctor only. You pay shitloads for insurance, don't mind wasting their money. Even if it's a minor thing.

My cousin was diagnosed with appendicitis (sp?), had a surgery and got it removed. One month later, once out of analgesics, she was still feeling pain. Another doctor thoguht it was a kidney calculus. The problem, my friends, was in the ovaries.

I completely agree, boobs rule!

Oh wait, we were actually discussing the medicine part of the show?

Originally Posted by juroara

wall of bullshit

Reason why Flu vaccine must be taken again every year: The influenza virus has a rapid mutation rate. That means new strains of the flu are very quick to arise. It is also why there are no effective treatments again the common cold, only things that treat symptoms. These viruses are just too good at mutating.

As for weakening my immune system? WHAT? Where the hell did you get that?

And someone has misunderstood the placebo effect. They did studies on painkillers and found that the placebo effect could itself reduce pain. Placebo effect can't heal people though, only make them think they are getting healed.

Also, where is the proof on New Age medicine working? Where are the conclusive studies to show how the mechanisms that are involved with the treatments work? Where is the evidence to show it meets the burden of proof?

New Age medicine is nothing more than a scam. I'd rather take the NHS any day of the week, month, year or century.

@guerilla:
I've have had more than 3 cortisone injections in my lifetime, most of them when I was young. Your point is?

You know, for a scientific trial to be considered, instead of comparing the control group (the ones undergoing treatment) with a no-control group, it should be compared with a placebo group.

My point is, compare New Age treatments with a placebo and you will have no difference, meaning it doesn't work.

In fact, placebo treats symptoms, not diseases. Pain is psychological, old news. Believing something is happening can actually make you feel them, such as feeling "lighter", "renewed", or even tingliness during the treatment. New age treatment is just complex placebo. You don't need to pay for placebo, I say.

Bluefinger, ive had doctors specifically say more then 3 cortisone shots is really bad for you, I wouldn't take the risk if I were you, I have constant shoulder pain, and I was offered cortisone shots and i denied them, they only cover up the pain for a few months, which to me is useless.

I'd rather goto the root of the problem, fix it, and not have to depend on some godamn drug every 3 months.

The evidence is out there if you're willing to look for it. The reason there are all these shows trying to prove it all as phony, is because it's cheaper than modern medicine and threatens their monopoly on health care. If there was a cure for a disease, billions of dollars would be lost by pharmaceutical companies who produce the drugs that 'treat' the disease. That seems like enough incentive to suppress ways to cure diseases to me. Your body has the ability to heal itself, that's not new information, what people don't understand, is that it can also cure itself of disease if it is healthy enough. Just look at the food we eat now, it is not very nutritious, and most of it is highly processed and loaded with chemicals. A lot of water sources are loaded with chemicals now too. It all adds up, you can't deny it. Well, you can, that's your opinion if you do.

You don't pay for new age treatments, you get robbed.

And the trainings are probably even worse. I have an all new agey aunt who had "special training" in some mystical treatment, she spends rivers of money on crystals and other crap.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Bluefinger, ive had doctors specifically say more then 3 cortisone shots is really bad for you, I wouldn't take the risk if I were you, I have constant shoulder pain, and I was offered cortisone shots and i denied them, they only cover up the pain for a few months, which to me is useless.

I'd rather goto the root of the problem, fix it, and not have to depend on some godamn drug every 3 months.

Note, I've already HAD more than 3 cortisone shots, all for cases of serious asthma attacks between the ages of 1-5. Because of that, I'm alive and perfectly healthy, so again, what's your point?

You don't get robbed when you pay for prescription or non-prescription drugs? There will always be stuff out there that doesn't work. But many of the holistic approaches are more successful than modern medicine, and they have virtually no negative side effects. Taking drugs has a 100% chance of negative side effects.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

The evidence is out there if you're willing to look for it. The reason there are all these shows trying to prove it all as phony, is because it's cheaper than modern medicine and threatens their monopoly on health care. If there was a cure for a disease, billions of dollars would be lost by pharmaceutical companies who produce the drugs that 'treat' the disease. That seems like enough incentive to suppress ways to cure diseases to me. Your body has the ability to heal itself, that's not new information, what people don't understand, is that it can also cure itself of disease if it is healthy enough. Just look at the food we eat now, it is not very nutritious, and most of it is highly processed and loaded with chemicals. A lot of water sources are loaded with chemicals now too. It all adds up, you can't deny it. Well, you can, that's your opinion if you do.

Your definately right, alot of this modern medicine is modern bullshit also, they just want money most of the time.

And bluefinger, just because your doctor says its okay, doesn't mean its okay...if something happens, which I wish nothing does, Then good luck.

If not, then thank god your okay, because ive heard from doctors themselves that it can be harmful.

Anyways, once I had a family friend who was diagnosed with cancer, turns out he had NO CANCER WHATSOEVER, and 3 different doctors said he did and they wanted him to spend around 80,000 dollars to cure this so called imaginary cancer.

So the guy finally found a doctor who didnt have his nose up the drug companies asses, and he said your just fine...They were about to put him on chemotherapy, the other 3 dickhead doctors...who just wanted money most likely.

Yea, modern medicine is sooo amazing...not

(and btw, i dont think new age medicine is medicine either, its a quack of shit, aside from chiropractors)

Originally Posted by guerilla

Your definately right, alot of this modern medicine is modern bullshit also, they just want money most of the time.

By Crom, come on. You live in the US, right? Not all places have to deal with having to pay for healthcare. The UK has the NHS, which is funded by the government taxes you pay, so you are entitled to free healthcare at all times, and this usually means essential drugs. And all things considered, it is a good system (has its problems, yes, but hey, nothing's perfect). I mean, if you got cancer one day, who are you going to trust? The doctor or some new age treatment?

Also, where are the studies done to show cortisone can only be taken 3 times? Sure, cortisone must be administered carefully, but there's nothing to suggest you have to only have it a certain number of times. Citation is needed for your claim.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

You don't get robbed when you pay for prescription or non-prescription drugs? There will always be stuff out there that doesn't work. But many of the holistic approaches are more successful than modern medicine, and they have virtually no negative side effects. Taking drugs has a 100% chance of negative side effects.

Citation, do you have it?

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Citation, do you have it?

My thoughts exactly.

I'm taking monthly vaccines tu cure my allergies, what are the negative side effects of that? How would new age bullcrap cure me?

Just read the side effects on every bottle.