My Dad Has a Theory

My Dad grew up in a deeply religious family (Episcopalian). He's the only kid (of 5) who has turned out to be not a very strong believer, even skeptical. It rather amuses him :lol:

Now he's talking on the phone with some guy about how he goes to church and sees all these people, and he wonders, "do you all believe in all this crap?" :lol:

So he has a theory that it's a social thing. People are going to this church and the natural desire is to fit in, so they say that they believe in God and this and that and all that, but outside of church they know that everything that's in the Bible probably isn't true.

He then proceeded to talk about how he believes that if there is a God, it's probably so vast that it can't be conceptualized by us...but anyway, I think he makes a good point about this social thing. Just throwing it out there.

I wouldn't say that's the case for all people who go to church or the equivalent in other religions. Certainly some of them are religious while others just do it to avoid scrutiny from their peers.

True, I don't think he was talking about everyone, just a lot of people...and I'm pretty sure Fred Phelps isn't the way he is for social reasons :lol:

Your dad sounds like a reasonable guy. I always assume most people believe something similar. Just taking a minute to contemplate the vast and uncomprehensible nature of the universe makes any story book about a God seem laughable in comparison.

Of course, there will always be people who claim to really believe all the mythology word for word, and will argue it to their grave. I assume that they just don't admit their rare bouts of sanity. Thier logical mind trying to break through their years of brainwashing while they lie, awake and restless, in bed.

Well, children didn't believe in this crap until their parents and peers forced them to. Your dad is basically correct, except for one thing: the people do believe it all. Because that's what brainwashing does.

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Originally Posted by Kael Seoras

True, I don't think he was talking about everyone, just a lot of people...and I'm pretty sure Fred Phelps isn't the way he is for social reasons :lol:

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Nope. His reason is Money.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

Well, children didn't believe in this crap until their parents and peers forced them to. Your dad is basically correct, except for one thing: the people do believe it all. Because that's what brainwashing does.

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Believe it or not, there is a large portion of society who don't really believe in their religion but go through the motions anyway. Its one of those "just smart enough to see how stupid you are" situations.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Believe it or not, there is a large portion of society who don't really believe in their religion but go through the motions anyway. Its one of those "just smart enough to see how stupid you are" situations.

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I believe there are some like that, but when I consider the main benefit of belief, which is an afterlife, it seems like if you're even 5% there you're 100% there. I guess it's sort of a gut feeling. I mean, what possible benefit could be attained by going to church if you don't believe at all? I suppose you could cook up some ridiculous situation where it would matter...

You believe to some degree (ex. there's a God, Heaven and Hell), you just don't take all the fairytale so seriously.

I reckon they do believe in the whole thing. It doesn't seem stupid to them because when they were a kid they wanted to do what Mummy and Daddy did. So I guess I'm agreeing with drewmandan.

My favorite professor goes to church, but doesn't believe a word of it. When I asked him why in the world he goes, he says it is for the socialization and the music (one of his degrees is in music). So there are people like that. Then you have my dad who believes to his core that the world is < 10000 years old and Adam and Eve were real people, etc etc.

My dad likes the hymns :lol: frankly I don't blame him; good old 4 part harmony tonal songs :D However, some hymns have such weird lyrics (treading over the bodies of the slaughtered: wtf?). We both get a good kick out of those :lol: :P

He also finds it funny that it seems like the Episcopalian prayer book was written by lawyers (he's a land surveyor so he knows the lawyer talk, all the big words and crap)

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

I believe there are some like that, but when I consider the main benefit of belief, which is an afterlife, it seems like if you're even 5% there you're 100% there. I guess it's sort of a gut feeling. I mean, what possible benefit could be attained by going to church if you don't believe at all? I suppose you could cook up some ridiculous situation where it would matter...

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The social benefits vastly outweigh a hope for an undefined afterlife. Partaking in the group ritual of religious devotion allows you to gain all of the other benefits of being in the group. Try to live in Salt Lake City without being part of the Mormon church and maybe you'll understand what I'm talking about.

I feel like your brainwashing aregument has a serious flaw. What about the people who, later in life, become religious with no real influence from there peers? What about the kid who comes from a religiously neutral family and ends up believing in God passionately? I come from a family like that and I can assure you, I wasn't just doing what mommy and daddy did. To make a statement like, 'it's brainwashing' is a huge overgeneralization shows a lack of thought.

I think your dad is right on a good handful of people, I think the same thing has to do with kids getting into sports at school to form bonds with peers. I mean it didn't take me long to see that everyone in the same athletic clubs were almost all friends or dating. I think people really don't question their religion though as well, that is why I lost my belief. I wasn't aware that people even did question christianity, thought all science agreed with it. That it as just a fact that the bible was just anther text book of history, when I read it though I figured out that it was more like a story book with very weird annoying sentence structure. Me I can't stand sports or the bible :P.

Lucid_boy, yeah that is true that some people can be very religious and come from a non-religious family, my uncle is a good example. I think they want to see some kind of hope in life, those are the kinds of people that can't accept a subjective meaning to life in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I feel like your brainwashing aregument has a serious flaw. What about the people who, later in life, become religious with no real influence from there peers? What about the kid who comes from a religiously neutral family and ends up believing in God passionately? I come from a family like that and I can assure you, I wasn't just doing what mommy and daddy did. To make a statement like, 'it's brainwashing' is a huge overgeneralization shows a lack of thought.

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Some religious people were brainwashed, and others are just stupid.

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Originally Posted by Kael Seoras

So he has a theory that it's a social thing. People are going to this church and the natural desire is to fit in, so they say that they believe in God and this and that and all that, but outside of church they know that everything that's in the Bible probably isn't true.

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I like to think of myself as a fairly strong believer, yet I almost never go to church or any other social gathering. Additionally I think the Bible makes it relatively clear that praying in the quietness of your own closet is better than dancing and shouting before others.

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Originally Posted by Needcatscan

My favorite professor goes to church, but doesn't believe a word of it. When I asked him why in the world he goes, he says it is for the socialization and the music (one of his degrees is in music). So there are people like that. Then you have my dad who believes to his core that the world is < 10000 years old and Adam and Eve were real people, etc etc.

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Tell your dad.

I'm sure someone named Adam and Eve lived at some point and shake your head and then rub your chin.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

Some religious people were brainwashed, and others are just stupid.

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you see, it's those kind of comments that so endear you to me. Have you ever considered the fact that your view might be wrong? Of course, with your sort of imperealistic point of view I doubt you put much thought into what you believe. Tell me, do you believe in every popular idea? Are you a follower afraid to confront your own ideas?

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Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

you see, it's those kind of comments that so endear you to me. Have you ever considered the fact that your view might be wrong? Of course, with your sort of imperealistic point of view I doubt you put much thought into what you believe. Tell me, do you believe in every popular idea? Are you a follower afraid to confront your own ideas?

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Well, since I don't believe in God, I think it's pretty ridiculous to say that I believe in every popular idea.

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Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

you see, it's those kind of comments that so endear you to me. Have you ever considered the fact that your view might be wrong? Of course, with your sort of imperealistic point of view I doubt you put much thought into what you believe. Tell me, do you believe in every popular idea? Are you a follower afraid to confront your own ideas?

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It's actually more popular to be theist than athiest

Yes the percentage of theists in America has gone down to like 82&#37;, used to me much higher (like 94% in 2000), and they represent like 5/6th of the world.

Believing what their close peer groups and parents believe is a religious thing.

I can almost garentee you'd most likely be muslim in the middle east, though I think most of us even me would have, we wouldn't have access to as much information that makes us believe otherwise.

Definitely a social thing,

That's mostly why I go to Church anyways.

I think if it was not so much fun and so social a lot less people would still be follow the religion.

Too bad it is!

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Originally Posted by LucidDreamGod

Yes the percentage of theists in America has gone down to like 82%, used to me much higher (like 94% in 2000), and they represent like 5/6th of the world.

Believing what their close peer groups and parents believe is a religious thing.

I can almost garentee you'd most likely be muslim in the middle east, though I think most of us even me would have, we wouldn't have access to as much information that makes us believe otherwise.

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I also remember hearing on the radio that less than 1/3 of these theists go through the religious motions.

Just to add I am atheist. A lot of religious people immediately say "ever thought about if you are wrong" when I say that I think I am right. I just have to say MAYBE YOUR WRONG? Look at this science and technology we have. Look out to the universe? To all those people when I ask if god created everything who created god they say "god was always there and always will be?" maybe the universe was always there and always will be. Do you think a human created all these animals before making his own kind. More likely, if you do believe this, god would be some ancient dinosaur. Just my thoughts!

Oh sorry! Hah didn't realize this thread ended like 4 years ago :panic:

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Originally Posted by Iwannafly

Oh sorry! Hah didn't realize this thread ended like 4 years ago :panic:

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Oh sure you didn't... I'm watching you... :shadewink: