• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Results 1 to 10 of 10
    1. #1
      Member
      Join Date
      Apr 2007
      Gender
      Posts
      609
      Likes
      28

      Is God a just individual?

      Assume for two minutes that God exists and acts according to his depictions in the bible.

      Assuming that, is God a just individual? How do we really know he's "good" beyond blind trust? If he is truly omnipotent, why does he seem to put this "plan" of his above the lives of the suffering? I've heard people say this when someone they know dies, that it wasn't according to God's will. Why the fuck should God's stupid plans be more important than the life of a human being?

      Obviously if God puts his plans over human life then that should give me free reign to allow the ends to justify the means wherever possible, because if God does it, surely it is "good", correct?

      Furthermore, how do we know his judgement is correct? Apparently, he just outlines random shit and says "this" is right and "that" is wrong, and in some cases "that" did no harm to anyone but yet for some reason it's still a sin. Who does he have to answer to? Is it really a good idea to allow one sentient being this much power?

      I've heard that my life was in disarray because I never went to church. Tell me what I do at church: that's right, worship. Definition: to show devotion and reverence to an individual. In other words, kiss one's ass. Because I didn't continually kiss his ass, he is supposedly striking people around me ill and ruining my life. You expect me to start running to him and praise him after he did all that to me? Do you expect me to go up to a murderer and thank him for what he did to me and my friends and praise him? Someone sure has a bigass ego.

      According to mainstream depictions of God, he strikes me as an insecure, ineffective leader who is so obsessed with getting his creation to kiss his ass he neglects to do other important deeds like, you know, not letting 3 year olds who haven't lived any kind of life at all yet die of cancer that came out of nowhere.

      So, if all this is true, shouldn't we revolt against God? Shouldn't we incite rebellion and wage eternal war against him for all the wrongs and neglect he inflicts upon humanity? Kind of like what Satan supposedly does except Satan seems to fall victim to the same "my plan above all else" mentality and let people die in his way as well. We may not win but at least we would have some fucking digity instead of bowing down to him for striking loved ones dead for his damn fucking plan that frankly, I couldn't give two shits about when it comes to choosing between that and the life of another human being.

      Do discuss, and keep it more civil than I tried to.

    2. #2
      Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 2007
      Gender
      Location
      The Weak and the Wounded
      Posts
      4,925
      Likes
      485
      Quote Originally Posted by mini0991 View Post
      Assume for two minutes that God exists and acts according to his depictions in the bible.

      Assuming that, is God a just individual? How do we really know he's "good" beyond blind trust? If he is truly omnipotent, why does he seem to put this "plan" of his above the lives of the suffering? I've heard people say this when someone they know dies, that it wasn't according to God's will. Why the fuck should God's stupid plans be more important than the life of a human being?

      Obviously if God puts his plans over human life then that should give me free reign to allow the ends to justify the means wherever possible, because if God does it, surely it is "good", correct?

      Furthermore, how do we know his judgement is correct? Apparently, he just outlines random shit and says "this" is right and "that" is wrong, and in some cases "that" did no harm to anyone but yet for some reason it's still a sin. Who does he have to answer to? Is it really a good idea to allow one sentient being this much power?

      I've heard that my life was in disarray because I never went to church. Tell me what I do at church: that's right, worship. Definition: to show devotion and reverence to an individual. In other words, kiss one's ass. Because I didn't continually kiss his ass, he is supposedly striking people around me ill and ruining my life. You expect me to start running to him and praise him after he did all that to me? Do you expect me to go up to a murderer and thank him for what he did to me and my friends and praise him? Someone sure has a bigass ego.

      According to mainstream depictions of God, he strikes me as an insecure, ineffective leader who is so obsessed with getting his creation to kiss his ass he neglects to do other important deeds like, you know, not letting 3 year olds who haven't lived any kind of life at all yet die of cancer that came out of nowhere.

      So, if all this is true, shouldn't we revolt against God? Shouldn't we incite rebellion and wage eternal war against him for all the wrongs and neglect he inflicts upon humanity? Kind of like what Satan supposedly does except Satan seems to fall victim to the same "my plan above all else" mentality and let people die in his way as well. We may not win but at least we would have some fucking digity instead of bowing down to him for striking loved ones dead for his damn fucking plan that frankly, I couldn't give two shits about when it comes to choosing between that and the life of another human being.

      Do discuss, and keep it more civil than I tried to.


      Being the creator of all existence and being the embodiment of the logos and logic of existence, whatever he does is "correct by default"

      if we see him killing and torturing a child, it is morally correct, no matter how despicable to us. Because he by defintiion is complete.


      This is how warped it all is.






      If God is the source of morals, as he apparently is, and he plants them in us, then why do we find him so despicable?


      Because none of it makes sense, he's not real.


      Fini.
      Last edited by Car˘usoul; 01-09-2009 at 01:40 AM.

    3. #3
      Member SpecialInterests's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2008
      Gender
      Location
      Pangea Ultima
      Posts
      349
      Likes
      29
      I thought god was in all of us!? You're god, I'm god, Omicron is god! I like the sounds of that. Theists like to throw that one around. But if we're all god... I have to say it is pretty weak work. I'm not impressed, god!


      Woops I misunderstood the title. I thought you were asking if god was and individual. God seems pretty full of vengeance if you ask me. Hell, if you've ever opened the bible anyone could tell you that pretty quick. God harnests some pretty nasty, weak, human emotions for an all-powerful all-knowing being that "loves" everyone.
      Last edited by SpecialInterests; 01-09-2009 at 01:40 AM.

    4. #4
      peaceful warrior tkdyo's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Gender
      Posts
      1,691
      Likes
      68
      short answer...no reason why we shouldnt.

      Long answer (read wrong answer) We are not perfect, and he is so of course we cant understand his plan and would think its wrong and not care about it! This is part of the mystery.


      lulz
      <img src=http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q50/mckellion/Bleachsiggreen2.jpg border=0 alt= />


      A warrior does not give up what he loves, he finds the love in what he does

      Only those who attempt the absurd can achieve the impossible.

    5. #5
      stop with all the anime metcalfracing's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2007
      Location
      Failsworth, United Kingdom
      Posts
      740
      Likes
      0
      DJ Entries
      1
      tl;dr... also repost times 99999999....

      No god is not just
      Next question

    6. #6
      Psychedelic Onslaught capoopy's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2008
      LD Count
      10
      Gender
      Location
      Earth
      Posts
      344
      Likes
      3
      DJ Entries
      10
      God (supposedly) made flawed humans only to judge them for his own mistakes later.
      No.
      http://img7.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/3039/3039302fbdc20bfd0b984e2e614b016b3a10f9f.jpg
      Made by ClouD

      LD's: 9
      8 DILD
      1 DEILD
      My Dream Journal- Please Comment!

    7. #7
      Drowning in Dreams Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Vivid Dream Journal Veteran First Class 10000 Hall Points Created Dream Journal
      <span class='glow_8B0000'>Zhaylin</span>'s Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      LD Count
      c. 6 since join
      Gender
      Location
      Central West Virginia, USA
      Posts
      5,767
      Likes
      4703
      DJ Entries
      199
      Wow... where to start with this one

      I'm of a denomination that has many different beliefs than most Christians. Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in a literal fiery hell, we do not believe all good people go to heaven. We deffinitely do NOT believe God takes our loved ones to be with him in heaven!! God has myriads upon myriads of angels in heaven with him already. If he wanted another, he would simply create one.

      To understand why we suffer now, you have to understand how it all began. It wasn't a simple matter of Eve eating a forbidden fruit. It was a matter of God's sovereignty- his right to rule. Satan was very cunning. Here's Eve, walking through the garden and she sees a snake crawl up a tree. Possibly, it took a bite from the fruit, then suddenly it starts talking. It asks her (paraphrase): "Is it **true** that God has forbidden you to eat the fruit from the trees in the garden." She says, it's not true. Only that one particular tree are they forbidden to eat from. She says, if they eat it they will die. He then goes on to call God a liar. He tells her if she eats the fruit, her eyes would be open and she would have the knowledge of God.
      In essence, he told her that she has the right to make her own rules and do as she pleases and forget about God.
      God did not create talking animals. She must have allowed herself to be deceived. The illustration earlier is complete conjucture, but knowing Satan, he would have made himself to be most convincing one way or another.
      She eats the fruit, doesn't die, then talks her husband into doing the same.
      And all the while, all the angels are watching.
      There was already a division in God's government. The book of Revelation tells us that Satan convinced a third of the angels to follow him!

      So, what was God to do? Kill them then and there and start all over? He gave us free will to decide for ourselves whether we would accept his rule or not. And, it would never have settled the issue that Satan raised: Does God have the right to rule his creation as he sees fit?
      At that moment, God knew the way out. But it would take a long time, in our understanding of time, to settle it. The prophecy of Gen. 3:15 points to Christ (though you have to do a lot of Bible studying and Scriptural referencing to understand that).
      He also had to allow time to pass for mankind to prove they could not successfuly govern themselves without him. We've had countless forms of governments that show just how limited human rule is. Even those with the best of intentions cannot free us of sin and death.

      In the book of Job, Satan made another accusation, but against us. (Paraphrasing again) "Skin in behalf of skin and everything that man has he will give for the sake of his life." Meaning, when the going gets tough, even the most devout believer will turn his back on God. Only each individual can prove whether Satan is a liar in their case or not.
      But when Jesus walked the earth, he showed that man, born of woman CAN serve God even to the point of death.

      Now we just have to bide our time and prove where we stand. Jehovah's Witnesses (as well as other denominations) feel strongly that we are living in the last days.

      As for whether or not we should rebel against God... Imagine you want to move to another country. In order to do so, you have to learn about the government. You have to respect it. To be a part of God's New World, you have to do the same. You have to learn what he likes and dislikes and change your ways where needed. If you feel Jehovah is not the God for you, so be it. You have free will. When you die, he will not torture you, you will simply cease to exist.

      Concerning Hell.
      God IS love (1 John 4:8) Torture is not part of his personality.
      And Jeremiah 7:31 illustrates that further:
      "And they have built the high places of To′pheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hin′nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.’"

      If it never came into God's heart to burn people alive, which takes maybe a few minutes- how could he conceive of burning people for an eternity? Imperfect people at that.

      Instead, Acts 24:15 tells us:
      "and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."
      If all people go instantly to Heaven or Hell, what would be the purpose of a resurrection?
      And notice there, too, that righteous as well as unrighteous are to be resurrected.
      There are MANY people who have never had the chance to learn the truth about God (be it the times they lived in or mental/physical handicaps etc). They will be brought back to life and given the chance to learn.
      Everyone knows the Scripture: "And the meek shall inherit the earth." But many fail to understand the truth behind those words. When God acts and destroys the wicked forever, the righteous will live forever on a perfect planet.

      This post could go on for another half hour or longer lol but I REALLY need to get off my butt and finish packing.
      I hope I've helped if only a little.

      Feel free to email me any time: [email protected]

    8. #8
      Theoretically Impossible Idolfan's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Gender
      Location
      UK
      Posts
      1,093
      Likes
      34
      DJ Entries
      5
      God, as he is depicted in the bible, is simply a wanker.

      The universe is far too naturalistic for this God to exist. If there is a higher power, I think it has a far simpler purpose and explaination.
      The starz...
      The planets...
      The intricate and dynamic machinery of nature...
      Are you saying,
      that all of this was created,
      BY A MONKEY??????

    9. #9
      Banned
      Join Date
      Dec 2003
      Gender
      Posts
      1,908
      Likes
      16
      Quote Originally Posted by Zhaylin View Post
      Wow... where to start with this one

      I'm of a denomination that has many different beliefs than most Christians. Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in a literal fiery hell, we do not believe all good people go to heaven. We deffinitely do NOT believe God takes our loved ones to be with him in heaven!! God has myriads upon myriads of angels in heaven with him already. If he wanted another, he would simply create one.

      To understand why we suffer now, you have to understand how it all began. It wasn't a simple matter of Eve eating a forbidden fruit. It was a matter of God's sovereignty- his right to rule. Satan was very cunning. Here's Eve, walking through the garden and she sees a snake crawl up a tree. Possibly, it took a bite from the fruit, then suddenly it starts talking. It asks her (paraphrase): "Is it **true** that God has forbidden you to eat the fruit from the trees in the garden." She says, it's not true. Only that one particular tree are they forbidden to eat from. She says, if they eat it they will die. He then goes on to call God a liar. He tells her if she eats the fruit, her eyes would be open and she would have the knowledge of God.
      In essence, he told her that she has the right to make her own rules and do as she pleases and forget about God.
      God did not create talking animals. She must have allowed herself to be deceived. The illustration earlier is complete conjucture, but knowing Satan, he would have made himself to be most convincing one way or another.
      She eats the fruit, doesn't die, then talks her husband into doing the same.
      And all the while, all the angels are watching.
      There was already a division in God's government. The book of Revelation tells us that Satan convinced a third of the angels to follow him!

      So, what was God to do? Kill them then and there and start all over? He gave us free will to decide for ourselves whether we would accept his rule or not. And, it would never have settled the issue that Satan raised: Does God have the right to rule his creation as he sees fit?
      At that moment, God knew the way out. But it would take a long time, in our understanding of time, to settle it. The prophecy of Gen. 3:15 points to Christ (though you have to do a lot of Bible studying and Scriptural referencing to understand that).
      He also had to allow time to pass for mankind to prove they could not successfuly govern themselves without him. We've had countless forms of governments that show just how limited human rule is. Even those with the best of intentions cannot free us of sin and death.

      In the book of Job, Satan made another accusation, but against us. (Paraphrasing again) "Skin in behalf of skin and everything that man has he will give for the sake of his life." Meaning, when the going gets tough, even the most devout believer will turn his back on God. Only each individual can prove whether Satan is a liar in their case or not.
      But when Jesus walked the earth, he showed that man, born of woman CAN serve God even to the point of death.

      Now we just have to bide our time and prove where we stand. Jehovah's Witnesses (as well as other denominations) feel strongly that we are living in the last days.

      As for whether or not we should rebel against God... Imagine you want to move to another country. In order to do so, you have to learn about the government. You have to respect it. To be a part of God's New World, you have to do the same. You have to learn what he likes and dislikes and change your ways where needed. If you feel Jehovah is not the God for you, so be it. You have free will. When you die, he will not torture you, you will simply cease to exist.

      Concerning Hell.
      God IS love (1 John 4:8) Torture is not part of his personality.
      And Jeremiah 7:31 illustrates that further:
      "And they have built the high places of To′pheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hin′nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.ĺ"

      If it never came into God's heart to burn people alive, which takes maybe a few minutes- how could he conceive of burning people for an eternity? Imperfect people at that.

      Instead, Acts 24:15 tells us:
      "and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."
      If all people go instantly to Heaven or Hell, what would be the purpose of a resurrection?
      And notice there, too, that righteous as well as unrighteous are to be resurrected.
      There are MANY people who have never had the chance to learn the truth about God (be it the times they lived in or mental/physical handicaps etc). They will be brought back to life and given the chance to learn.
      Everyone knows the Scripture: "And the meek shall inherit the earth." But many fail to understand the truth behind those words. When God acts and destroys the wicked forever, the righteous will live forever on a perfect planet.

      This post could go on for another half hour or longer lol but I REALLY need to get off my butt and finish packing.
      I hope I've helped if only a little.

      Feel free to email me any time: [email protected]
      Wow this actually makes a lot of sense. I didn't know Jehovahs witnesses had this type of understanding in the scriptures. It looks like they have the key that a lot of other Christians are missing. Nice post.

    10. #10
      Bio-Turing Machine O'nus's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2003
      Gender
      Location
      - Canada -
      Posts
      4,167
      Likes
      115
      Quote Originally Posted by mini0991 View Post
      Assuming that, is God a just individual? How do we really know he's "good" beyond blind trust? If he is truly omnipotent, why does he seem to put this "plan" of his above the lives of the suffering? I've heard people say this when someone they know dies, that it wasn't according to God's will. Why the fuck should God's stupid plans be more important than the life of a human being?
      Good questions.

      Also, you are told to do good things while under the gun. If I hold a gun to your head and tell you to do good things, are they actually acts of good or self-preservation?

      This is as opposed to being good for goodness sake than Godness sake.

      Furthermore, how do we know his judgement is correct? Apparently, he just outlines random shit and says "this" is right and "that" is wrong, and in some cases "that" did no harm to anyone but yet for some reason it's still a sin. Who does he have to answer to? Is it really a good idea to allow one sentient being this much power?
      I am glad to see you questioning this.

      There is an ancient question proposed by Plato which asks, "Are good things good intrinsically or because Gods say they are good?". This is within the Republic and we find that his opposition runs into circles over this one.

      At the end of the day, a perfect being should not have a sense of opinion because if it favours one thing over the other then it has an opinion which negates it's perfection.

      You expect me to start running to him and praise him after he did all that to me? Do you expect me to go up to a murderer and thank him for what he did to me and my friends and praise him? Someone sure has a bigass ego.
      Of course! Even if God exists, why are you not praising yourself for your own accomplishments? Everything is attributable to God..?

      When referring to the bibles as the word of God, let us immediately consider that the bible was not originally written in English and that immediately negates the word of God. Furthermore, it was not God that wrote the bible and even if it was over someone else's shoulder, someone was still copying his words down. Furthermore, the Council's of Nicaea have manipulated the bible on two major occasions with over 600 people making modifications to the bible.

      Hence, the bible is not the word of God by any means. If anything, I would regard nature as the word of God.

      Too bad there is none.

      ~

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •