Sorry, but respectfully, I'm not. Creationists are mixing apples and oranges. That's why I apologized to you for calling you a fundamentalist. Because you aren't. That doesn't mean that fundamentalists aren't though.
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Are there actually any Fundamentalists LEFT here? If so, perhaps someone who actually knows the Bible and knows Jesus would be better equipped to try to enlighten them?
Here... a poem! My personal creation myth. I posted this in the artist's corner... but it fits here too... and then I must really go to bed... after only five hours sleep each of the last three nights, even a three hour nap today did not catch me up.
Genesis
Every shade of gray
has two parents
Mother Black and Father White
Mrs. Black-White
began her life as a Void
She never realized
how boring it was to be a blank slate
until the day Mr. White
beamed his spectrum-laden Light
into the farthest reaches of her being
At first she was dazzled
by all the fascinating
shades of gray
Then one day, Behold!
Mr. White's light shone
through a crystal prism
and a rainbow was born
The rainbow began to play
with the shades of gray
and every nuance of color grew and multiplied
The whole began to shout with Joy
at all the multiplicity and diversity
in the space that used to be
an empty void
(c) Dec. 17, 2002
revised slightly March, 2008
Of course, there's no punctuation. You know, there's just no end to it! :)
The inspiration: Numerous dreams and waking visions contrasting black and white against rainbows, and of course, the book of Genesis.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
"And God said, "Let there be light, and there was light."
Not to interrupt the flow of your debate but... I was overwhelmingly rude?
Everything you've said about me thus far has been as far from the truth as possible, which is why I cannot possibly take offense. Like if someone told you that you were actually an orange alligator, it wouldn't make you angry. You'd just kind of be confused, make your own conclusions about the speaker, and ultimately be entertained. :lol:
I have not once resorted to personally attacking you.
Arguing for the religious now, this topic is intended to share experiences that convinced people that the belief must be real or seems real.
The idea is that all religious people know that the belief system is a belief system - not a factual system. It is a leap of faith.
Obviously, this is where we ask, "Why?", right? But these are experiences that feel real, felt real, are evidence enough. You feel experiences all the time with your body and if you felt something on a religious level with a religious context, then you might be convinced to believe in God.
There's a reason why it's "faith" and that the title says "convince you that God is real".
What do you think...?
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I'm not bashing you, I'm merely responding to you in the way this thread was intended. Mes stated clearly in her OP what the purpose of this thread was. Though I'm not exactly sure if she just wanted to ponder the reasons why the anecdotes must be wrong or actually make posts disproving them.
You may have omitted details consciously OR unconsciously. Again, my argument still stands.
Imagine science as an explanation of the universe that we are slowly discovering. It explains everything. Including paranormal phenomena. Science does explain everything, we merely need to discover it. You seem to think that science is anti-spiritual and anti-paranormal. If your granddaughter really was talking to you, then there would be a scientific reason for it. And undiscovered reason, but a reason nonetheless.
Yes and maybe are the answers to your questions.
Correct. I'm just responding to incorrect accusations that pertain to the wider R/S forum. There is a lot of off-topic discussion going on within this thread and I'm far from the only perpetrator.
That seems to be a fairly idealistic claim in light of the fact that there are at least two people currently arguing that evolution is false, one of which is on the record as saying that the earth is 6000 years old.
I'm open to the possibility but with all the intuition, "synchronicity" and coincidences that I've already experienced, I think probably not. "Supernatural" phenomenon perhaps, and I am a very open minded skeptic when it comes to those as it stands now. If we find anything that's not purely mechanistic, then just from looking at the universe that this "god" created, I would expect to find that consciousness plays a fundamental role in creating space-time but in the absence of mathematics predicting measurable phenomenon along those lines I have no choice but to conclude that that's just me wanting to feel special. A sky-daddy type god is just to ugly and crufty for a universe with processes as beautiful as natural selection and conservation of energy. Think about that, as random as quantum mechanics is, it still conserves energy!
Faith in the absence of evidence or faith in the face of opposing evidence? What's the definition of insanity again? I'm not saying that there is opposing evidence to god but there is surely opposing evidence to the things that I do argue against as if I am arguing from a position of truth and not personal supposition.
As far as the subject of this thread goes, it seems that it mostly went off topic long before I got here. I suppose that I could be wrong though.
Ultimately, I don't really get the point of your post. It's not that I'm trying to insinuate that you don't have one, it's just that assuming you do, I don't get it.
Well, she's not disproving anything, she's just ranting about it being anecdotal when that is precisely what she asked for: anecdotes, personal experiences. Anecdotes are actually wonderful things. I love books by authors who use lots of anecdotes, as they give life to writing which in other hands is dead and dry. Anecdotes are about real personal experience and add life to books. Two favorites in that regard are psychic Sonia Choquette and dreamworker Robert Moss, who is also an historian, and uses both personal anecdotes and historical anecdotes of famous people. Both are educated in their field and use anecdotes and storytelling to make the information accessible and interesting and bring psi and dreams to life.
All Mes Tarrant wanted to do was set up a situation where she could disparage anything written as being merely anecdotal. For her entertainment, or so she appears to be saying, if one can make any sense out of what she says.
I did not omit details. Why do you assume I omitted details? As I said, I was fully awake with that dream, and wrote it down immediately.
I do not find that science does a very good job at explaining paranormal phenomena at all, though I do try to read up on the efforts to do so. It's pretty boring reading, generally, because the people doing the testing often have no personal experience, so they're kind of clueless. I do not let that fact stop me from believing in my own repeated experience, and all the nutty arguing around here won't change that, you see? Because I know the reality for me, regardless of whether or not you ever see it! My grandaughter talking to me the night before her birth is not something that needs a scientific reason, not for me. For you, it might be. But why should that mean that it has to for me? Can't you understand that we don't all see things YOUR way?
I don't like arguing and debates, personally, and do not find them entertaining at all. I like discussions, calm ones. I don't like getting an adrenaline rush, because it's bad for my health, both in terms of loss of sleep and in terms of triggering fibromyalgia attacks, which are very painful. I don't like having people try to force me into their mindset. Can't you just share what you see and feel and know and believe without putting down those same things in someone else? Seriously. Without the baiting and meanness and downright cruelty? I've been called delusional, for gosh sakes, and I know I'm not, but that is still cruel. So, what, scientists have to be cruel nowadays? I don't get it. All you're accomplishing is making me, for one, probably others too, detest science. Way to go!
How can anyone detest science? especially what it has given us.
It's funny how you make these big, fluffed up posts which have almost no bearing whatsoever on what is being discussed. Mes asked for a story of yours that you think proves to you that god exists. She also said she would try to explain them logically. God is not a logical answer, it is a superstitious one. What has superstition ever done for the world?
First off, no I don't assume that Christians need chastising because I am one myself. Secondly, yes you are right there have been other people in this thread that have been just as rude, (to you as well as others,) and infractions have been given for recent violations of the rules in the R/S section. However, Mes hasn't been one of them, (other than getting riled at you putting down her intelligence,) making it out of line for you to be so insulting towards her. Hence why I personally responded to you.
But to generally address everyone in this thread, please be less sarcastic, (on both sides.)
Uh...that thread has some neat explanations for our senses, but it does not explain human awareness. Are we talking about the same thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by O'nus
Know? Lol. I don't "Know" the age of the earth any more than you "know"
Now stop bringing the stupid earth age thing into play. Yes, I believe the earth is 6,000 years old. Yes, you believe it is 4,000,000,000. Nevermind, that's unrelated.
Perception, and awareness are two different things. A computer can "percieve" color with a camera, but that doesn't mean that it has consciousness of what it "percieves".
Essentially, the computer is just a thing with electricity surging throught. It is in-ambient, and does not have consciousness of what it percieves like humans do.
Again, are we talking about the same thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Again, if you think so, then you should stop, you know, using all the things that science has given you, since you clearly are of the opinion that evidence and logical thinking are not good methods of discovery and application of knowledge.
You believe the earth is 6000 years old based on the opinion of a French man who used the bible to create a time-line of events. I know that the earth is 'at least' 4,600,000,000 years old based on reproducible, verifiable evidence given by geologists who have dated the ages of rocks and meteorites. These ideas are incompatible and yours is completely wrong by a factor of over fifty million. Willfully discarding such important evidence leads me to believe you are either extremely stubborn, stupid, or have some sort of serious mental impairment in the logic and reasoning areas of your brain. Over and over, you have only proven yourself to be completely ignorant of many basic facts and concepts and unwilling to learn and diversify yourself as you make nonsense post after nonsense post. Either man up and admit it when you are wrong, or leave the fucking forums.Quote:
Now stop bringing the stupid earth age thing into play. Yes, I believe the earth is 6,000 years old. Yes, you believe it is 4,000,000,000. Nevermind, that's unrelated.
Not in the context I used it.Quote:
Perception, and awareness are two different things. A computer can "percieve" color with a camer. But that doesn't mean that it has consciousness.
What? Please respond to the thread, I'm getting annoyed by you using this as a scientific debate place.
I asked you to stop bringing up the earth thing to insult my intelligence. Either respond to the ON TOPIC discussion, or stop spamming here. You can also harass me via PM if you wish.
This is the religion forum, not the dodgeball forum. If you want to play dodgeball, go away. I answered your post, and you made a silly reply of no substance as usual. If you don't want to learn or think, then why are you here? To preach?
I did 'answer the thread'. Your brain is the source of your consciousness. The discrepancy between your memories and your current state of mind produces this effect.
I was trying to maintain on-topic and regulate the conversation. This thread really should just belong to the faithful.. not to defend their faith. Give them there space is what I am saying ought to happen here.
Yes, we are talking about the same thing. Perhaps you could tell me how that thread does not refer to what you are speaking of? Because, in doing that, I think that you may find that there is scientific and physical evidence for cognition and pyschology. It is called neuroscience.
This keeps coming up because you are wrong. There is evidence for it. Here is a video, which I have already provided you with before (so you'll save time by watching it) that outlines several forms of evidence.
If you can provide an alternate form of dating that is in opposition to these, then I'll be impressed.
Why?
Because there is no evidence, whatsoever, that the world is 6k years old.
It is that simple.
Connect the dots - it is perception that gives rise to awareness. Not all things have this transcendence as not all things have language to give awareness. It is language and the necessity for awareness that is the reason why you have it to begin with.Quote:
Perception, and awareness are two different things. A computer can "percieve" color with a camera, but that doesn't mean that it has consciousness of what it "percieves".
Are you confident in saying that you are conscious of all the things that you perceive? Are you confident in thinking that you have conscious control over your entire body and those things in which you think?Quote:
Essentially, the computer is just a thing with electricity surging throught. It is in-ambient, and does not have consciousness of what it percieves like humans do.
If you read my thread that I provided you, you will see evidence that you are not.
This is a little off-topic and, if anyone wants it to be separated into another topic, please just say so - it is no problem.
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Chill, Roxxor. Seriously, keep your points based on the arguments Noogah uses, not on the person you are arguing with. I don't want to have to monitor this forum, but it's unaccepable to imply that a user is stupid enough that they should just leave the forums. You have been warned of similar thigns in the past. Take it to heart this time.
I wasn't aware that I wasn't calm...?
If someone has been presented with evidence and refuses to believe it based on a predisposition to a certain way of thinking, then they are stubborn.
Then why are you posting about perception and consciousness and not letting the christians post their anecdotes? :P
I was following the progression of the thread.
EDIT: Or, I may not have been ;_; these threads all sound alike to me. :(
Right, what I don't understand is how you got the perception that I was the only one being at all off topic and I find it frankly silly that the rest of that post consisted of a large digression into the age of the earth and the the nature of human conciousness.
If I'm not mistaken, it was stated in the OP that people would have to defend their faith as well, so I'm not sure where you're getting that idea.
I was not just referring to you. Sorry for misleading.
Mes does say that she could likely come up with alternate explanations. However, I simply wanted to cauterize the thread before it bleeds into digressive arguing over religion instead of events that caused people to believe what they believe.Quote:
If I'm not mistaken, it was stated in the OP that people would have to defend their faith as well, so I'm not sure where you're getting that idea.
I am curious to hear more events or experiences people had that convinced them God is real rather than arguing over faith.
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