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    1. #1
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      Life after death?

      Agree or disagree this is just for you to think about.
      No need to voice your negative disagreement i have read enough posts on that. Beyond all the science, research and history of everything we need not it to be complicated and arguments only bring disbelief and aggravation.

      Here are some beliefs on life after death, what do you believe?

      If a man dies will he live again? A relevant question as it concerns every man and woman.What happens after death? Will you be extinct or will you live on? Where will you or your soul be? Most people believe in some form of existence beyond the grave.History bears this out.

      The ancient Egyptians held that life continued on a different plane after death.So their dead were mummified, they were given a papyrus scroll to understand the next world and stone implements to work there.In line with this belief, many of the great Pharaohs were buried with their queens, their servants and their treasures in pyramids.

      The early Greeks maintained that the body was the prison-house of the soul.At death the soul is released,free to enter the life hereafter.

      The orthodox Jews taught that the soul will go to a place for departed spirits in a shadowy realm of existence.

      The Hindus and the Buddhists believe that the soul will be reincarnated on this earth till it attains Nirvana a state of perfect happiness and nothingness.A person goes through a cycle of rebirths, if he lives a good life, he will be reincarnated into a higher form of life on earth, if he is wicked he will be reborn into a lower form of existence.His goal is to enter the state of Nirvana trough meditation and good deeds.

      The Christian belief.Jesus Christ has given new insights into the subject of death and eternity.On one occasion, at the demise of his friend Lazarus, he declared:"I am the Resurrection and the Life: he who believes in me will live (again) even when he dies, and no one who lives and believes in me will ever die (spiritually)." (John 11:25-26)

      These significant words of Jesus point to the following:

      1)This great declaration of Jesus proclaims that there us life after death.The Bible tells us that we are made to the image and likeness of God.That he formed man out of the dust of the ground and breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul.
      Men and women are created by a wonderful god to live in peace and harmony on earth and subsequently in heaven.This is the purpose and plan for all mankind.
      Life on this beautiful planet is a preparation for eternity.Our body is transformed at death into another realm of existence.We see an analogy of this in nature.For example the ugly caterpillar is mysteriously transformed into a colorful butterfly likewise our soul will continue in the hereafter.
      St. Paul the great apostle said that "this corruptible body must on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality"
      Yes, there is life after death.

      2)This great declaration of Jesus assures us that there is victory over death.This is the Gospel, the good news,for all people who fear death.Most man and women are afraid to die because of two primary reasons:
      a)The fear of the unknown
      When a person is about to die, he is entering the unknown and he does not know what is ahead of him.So he is afraid, like walking in pitch darkness.
      b)The reality of guilt-consciousness
      At the point of death most people become very conscious of their past sins and misdeeds.Many will weep profusely,confess their wrongdoings and try to make amends often it is too late.
      But Jesus Christ tells us that we need not fear death at all.He is "the Resurrection and the Life".He has power to raise the dead and to give them eternal life.He himself has overcome death by rising from the grave.We can share His victory over death by faith and rejoice forevermore.Those who know Jesus as their personal Savior and Lord can shout with St. Paul:"Death is swallowed up in victory. Thanks be to God who gives us the victory through Jesus Christ our Lord.

      3)This great declaration of Jesus teaches us that New Life begins here and now.The wonderful new life in Christ begins on earth and continues into eternity.We need not live in fear and anxiety now under the power of sin and death.Jesus says that anyone who believes in him shall never die spiritually he shall never be separated from God in spirit he shall not experience spiritual death.

      The Bible points out that every man and woman has sinned and come short of the glory or standard expectation of God.Sin always separates a person from God and often his fellowmen.The sinner is dead (spirituality separated from his Creator).But the person who comes to Christ,repents to his sin and accepts Jesus as his personal Savior and Lord enters into a new relationship with his maker.God becomes his father and he becomes a child of god.He lives in fellowship with his creator and the Church and hes goes on to eternity after physical death.So he is never separated from god in spirit,he never dies spirituality as Jesus has promised.The believer begins his new life with Christ now and goes on forever.

      If a man dies, shall he live again ? Certainly!
      He will live with God on earth and in heaven when his sins are forgiven through repentance, and faith in Jesus Christ.On the other hand, a man will go to hell if he continues in his sins.
      The good news for us is that Jesus has overcome sin and death and he will give us victory and eternal life.He is the Way the Truth and the Life.

      Won't you come to Jesus by faith,trust him and live forever?

      Do you have eternal life?

      What do you non Christians believe happens to you after death then?
      Last edited by kingerman; 09-11-2009 at 03:44 PM.

    2. #2
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      The Bible points out that every man and woman has sinned and come short of the glory or standard expectation of God.
      At what age did we sin? Did we sin in the womb? Or was it shortly after birth? If god made me, then what expectation of god's am I falling short of?

      Or do you think that that's just a fairy tale that they told to people before we had science to scare them with the idea of ever lasting torment so that they would believe in the rest of it?
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

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      We all entered this world "bent away" from the Lord and spiritually dead. this is due to the fact that we all inherited Adam's fallen nature. We experience a spiritual birth when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and at that point in time we pass from death into life. No child under the age of understanding will be going to hell however, people who have reached the age of understanding need to accept what Jesus did for them. The very thing that sends people to hell is the nature that they inherited from Adam unless they accept Jesus as their Savior. Our good works fail to address this problem as well. Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly spell out that we are saved by grace and not of ourselves, not of works.New born babies are born with a sin nature, but they are not sinners.
      No one has to teach a baby to be selfish, which by the age of two they all become.

    4. #4
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      So all your (slanted, I might add) talk about other religions was just to make it look like you're open minded?

      At any rate, why does your god allow the sin to be inheritable? If I commit a crime, is my guilt transferred to my children?

      Or do you think that maybe these fairy tales are getting at the fact that as a member of the super-family Hominoidea, we have a lot of ape instincts? We do have instincts towards violence, domination and the like. We also have instincts towards compassion, love and family. Do you think that perhaps understanding where these things actually come from might be a more effective path to the cessation of suffering than a fairy tale?
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    5. #5
      Member Scatterbrain's Avatar
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      Of course there is life after death. The human population is around 6 billion, life will go on and on long after we're gone.
      - Are you an idiot?
      - No sir, I'm a dreamer.

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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      If a man dies, shall he live again ? Certainly!
      He will live with God on earth and in heaven when his sins are forgiven through repentance, and faith in Jesus Christ.
      I'm curious, how can man be in two places at the same time? You say after death man will live with God on Earth and in Heaven how exactly is that possible?

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman
      On the other hand, a man will go to hell if he continues in his sins.
      quote that scripture where the bible says this.

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      Guilt is a feeling, state of mind not an act.
      And the purpose of the thread is inform people that like it or not we all gotta kick the bucket and they gotta know the existence that awaits them based on their belief.

      And if they belief a certain idea that does not consist the afterlife hopefully they would change their mind not exactly convert to anything but maybe research into these things and get more insight on it, before saying that we would all cease after life which is a depressing thought and of course one of the main reasons people turn to religion.

      Which makes atheists, atheists because of the fear that people put towards them makes them want to think it's all just a sales speech (fairy tale as you put it) to get people to fear and buy into their faith.

      Well obviously there are heaps of preachers or teachers that preached all these wrong teachings (e.g.Using hellfire to put fear in us)that made us feel that religion especially Christianity is bull.
      Last edited by kingerman; 09-11-2009 at 04:40 PM.

    8. #8
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      Guilt is a feeling, state of mind not an act.
      And the purpose of the thread is inform people that like it or not we all gotta kick the bucket and they gotta know the existance that awaits them basd on their belief.
      But why is the bible the one word on that? What is wrong with reincarnation? I find that much more plausible than Hell/Heaven.

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      Which makes atheists, atheists because of the fear that people put towards them makes them want to think it's all just a sales speech (fairy tale as you put it) to get people to fear and buy into their faith.
      But isn't it a sales speech? Why bring up hell if you're not trying to make people fear?

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      Well obviousley there are heaps of preachers or teachers that preached all these wrong teachings (e.g.Using hellfire to put fear it us)that made us feel that religion especially christianity is bull.
      But isn't that exactly what your OP is?

      And at any rate, what is sin other than causing harm to another? That strikes me as a good definition of sin. So how did I bring harm to another before I was ever born?
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

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      I don't think we've went over this subject before

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      I am not copping-out but i think out time zone's different it's 2.00 AM for me gotta sleep so i will reply tomorrow.

      Change your thoughts it's impossible to know everything. Don't think you can assume God's not real. Doubt your own beliefs atheists

      .Matthew 12:30
      "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters"

      Arguing with atheist are like arguing with a rock that can't hear words, they always have something in their mind to say.Fighting arguing is not Christ's way we must be in peace.

    11. #11
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      [QUOTE=kingerman;1168901]I am not copping-out but i think out time zone's different it's 2.00 AM for me gotta sleep so i will reply tomorrow.[/quote[

      Fair enough!

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      Change your thoughts it's impossible to know everything. Don't think you can assume God's not real. Doubt your own beliefs atheists

      I find it funny being lectured on the existence of uncertainty by the person who wrote that post. Here is sciences take on doubt.

      Quote Originally Posted by Richard Feynman
      Our freedom to doubt was born out of a struggle against authority in the early days of science. It was a very deep and strong struggle: permit us to question — to doubt — to not be sure. I think that it is important that we do not forget this struggle and thus perhaps lose what we have gained.
      I wonder what was the primary force repressing doubt and insisting on certainty?

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      Arguing with atheist are like arguing with a rock that can't hear words, they always have something in their mind to say.Fighting arguing is not Christ's way we must be in peace.
      I often feel the same about christians.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ne-yo View Post
      I'm curious, how can man be in two places at the same time? You say after death man will live with God on Earth and in Heaven how exactly is that possible?



      quote that scripture where the bible says this.
      Yes on earth when alive and in heaven when dies.

      Without getting saved.

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      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      But why is the bible the one word on that? What is wrong with reincarnation? I find that much more plausible than Hell/Heaven.
      Great,so now you are a Buddhist, are you already on your path to enlightenment.Meditating and stuff because if you are good for you.Finally settled in something that has salvation attained through insight into the ultimate nature of reality.

      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      But isn't it a sales speech? Why bring up hell if you're not trying to make people fear?
      The word “hell” is used 54 times in the Bible. It is translated from several different words with various meanings.

      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      But isn't that exactly what your OP is?
      God is sinless and sin cannot survive in the presence of God. So if a sinner was to be exposed to God the sinner would not survive.

      God gave us Jesus as a sacrifice for our sin, he was made to be sin for us, so when God looks at people who have accepted Jesus as a sacrifice for their sins, those people are not annihilated because in essence their sin is no more. So they survive their encounter with the Holy God.

      Everyone is or will be given a chance to accept Jesus as a sacrifice for their sin.

      It's really not a matter of "being good" its a matter of accepting Jesus Christ as your savior from sin, then lots of other stuff happens after that to change your heart with the results that you appear good to other people, but it's really not that "being good," that gets you to heaven, it's that Jesus will now vouch for you because you belong to Him.

      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      And at any rate, what is sin other than causing harm to another? That strikes me as a good definition of sin. So how did I bring harm to another before I was ever born?
      As a result of the fall of our first parents, we became "dis-graced" people, our nature changed and now we inherit a slightly fallen nature. Concupiscence (the tinder for sin) entered the world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command.

      A baby has a selfish sin nature that it is born with. It doesn't have the knowledge, or ability, or experience, to be an obvious sinner - and besides, they look so cute.

      But just wait till they can do a little more than gurgle and smile and cry. Soon you will see that just like everyone else, they want what they want, when they want it, and they don't care about what other people want if it interferes with what they want.

      Then they get a little older and learn to talk. Then they tell a lie. Did anyone teach them how to tell lies? No, it's part of the sin nature. They will take things that they know belong to someone else, like a toy and act like it was theirs all along and complain when they can't have their way with another child's property.

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      What logical process did you follow that lead to this belief? Why is your myth better than anyone else's?

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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      Yes on earth when alive and in heaven when dies.

      Without getting saved.
      You didn't say alive, you said after death.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kingerman
      If a man dies, shall he live again ? Certainly!
      He will live with God on earth and in heaven when his sins are forgiven through repentance, and faith in Jesus Christ.

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      This is for you


    17. #17
      Member Scatterbrain's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      This is for you

      He tried and he failed.
      - Are you an idiot?
      - No sir, I'm a dreamer.

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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      This is for you
      Do you have an answer for my question?

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      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      Great,so now you are a Buddhist, are you already on your path to enlightenment.Meditating and stuff because if you are good for you.Finally settled in something that has salvation attained through insight into the ultimate nature of reality.
      I didn't say I'm a Buddhist. I said I find reincarnation more likely than the whole heaven/hell thing. It's more elegant. I don't find it that likely either. I do enjoy reading Buddhist scriptures though and take the Buddhas own advice to take what works for me and leave the rest. Now that is a confident religion.

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      The word “hell” is used 54 times in the Bible. It is translated from several different words with various meanings.
      Well could you explain what you think hell is? it seems to be fairly critical to your beliefs since you use it as a reason to believe as you do.


      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      God is sinless and sin cannot survive in the presence of God. So if a sinner was to be exposed to God the sinner would not survive.

      God gave us Jesus as a sacrifice for our sin, he was made to be sin for us, so when God looks at people who have accepted Jesus as a sacrifice for their sins, those people are not annihilated because in essence their sin is no more. So they survive their encounter with the Holy God.

      Everyone is or will be given a chance to accept Jesus as a sacrifice for their sin.
      Ok, so a 'sinless person' cannot survive an encounter with god. Is god obligated to meet the "sinful people". Can't he just let them be?

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      It's really not a matter of "being good" its a matter of accepting Jesus Christ as your savior from sin, then lots of other stuff happens after that to change your heart with the results that you appear good to other people, but it's really not that "being good," that gets you to heaven, it's that Jesus will now vouch for you because you belong to Him.
      I didn't say anything about being good. I said something about not causing harm to another. Is god above cariing about that? It's really just some good old boys club?


      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      As a result of the fall of our first parents, we became "dis-graced" people, our nature changed and now we inherit a slightly fallen nature. Concupiscence (the tinder for sin) entered the world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command.
      Are you advocating Larmarkian evolution? Even if a giraffe managed to stretch its neck, this wouldn't be transferred to its children, you know?

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      Great,so now you are a Buddhist, are you already on your path to enlightenment.Meditating and stuff because if you are good for you.Finally settled in something that has salvation attained through insight into the ultimate nature of reality.
      I didn't say I'm a Buddhist. I said I find reincarnation more likely than the whole heaven/hell thing. It's more elegant. I don't find it that likely either. I do enjoy reading Buddhist scriptures though and take the Buddhas own advice to take what works for me and leave the rest. Now that is a confident religion.

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      The word “hell” is used 54 times in the Bible. It is translated from several different words with various meanings.
      Well could you explain what you think hell is? it seems to be fairly critical to your beliefs since you use it as a reason to believe as you do.


      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      God is sinless and sin cannot survive in the presence of God. So if a sinner was to be exposed to God the sinner would not survive.

      God gave us Jesus as a sacrifice for our sin, he was made to be sin for us, so when God looks at people who have accepted Jesus as a sacrifice for their sins, those people are not annihilated because in essence their sin is no more. So they survive their encounter with the Holy God.

      Everyone is or will be given a chance to accept Jesus as a sacrifice for their sin.
      Ok, so a 'sinless person' cannot survive an encounter with god. Is god obligated to meet the "sinful people". Can't he just let them be?

      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      It's really not a matter of "being good" its a matter of accepting Jesus Christ as your savior from sin, then lots of other stuff happens after that to change your heart with the results that you appear good to other people, but it's really not that "being good," that gets you to heaven, it's that Jesus will now vouch for you because you belong to Him.
      I didn't say anything about being good. I said something about not causing harm to another. Is god above cariing about that? It's really just some good old boys club?


      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      A baby has a selfish sin nature that it is born with. It doesn't have the knowledge, or ability, or experience, to be an obvious sinner - and besides, they look so cute.

      But just wait till they can do a little more than gurgle and smile and cry. Soon you will see that just like everyone else, they want what they want, when they want it, and they don't care about what other people want if it interferes with what they want.

      Then they get a little older and learn to talk. Then they tell a lie. Did anyone teach them how to tell lies? No, it's part of the sin nature. They will take things that they know belong to someone else, like a toy and act like it was theirs all along and complain when they can't have their way with another child's property.
      See, it seems to me like everything that you described above is just the downside of being an ape. I don't see why thats so hard to understand. It seems like profound hubris to say that a chimpanzee can have every trait that you described above because it's a chimpanzee and that's just how apes are but, even with the knowledge that humans are apes, require some magical fairy tale to explain how humans came to have those traits.

      It also seems harmful to me. I'll ask you again as you didn't answer last time. Don't you think that actually understanding how we actually got to have what you are calling 'original sin' is a better route to follow if we want to deal with its consequences than getting our answers from a book of fairy tales?
      Last edited by PhilosopherStoned; 09-12-2009 at 03:58 PM.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

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      Member Bonsay's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      This is for you

      [Insert lame video]
      This is for you:
      C:\Documents and Settings\Akul\My Documents\My Pictures\Sig.gif

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      Quote Originally Posted by Bonsay View Post
      This is for you:
      winner. Dane cook sucks.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Scatterbrain View Post
      He tried and he failed.

      Quote Originally Posted by Bonsay View Post
      This is for you:
      Quote Originally Posted by grasshoppa View Post
      winner. Dane cook sucks.
      Damn tough one what am i suppose to say?

      Oh "WHEN YOU DIE NOTHING HAPPENS!"

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      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      I didn't say I'm a Buddhist. I said I find reincarnation more likely than the whole heaven/hell thing. It's more elegant. I don't find it that likely either. I do enjoy reading Buddhist scriptures though and take the Buddhas own advice to take what works for me and leave the rest. Now that is a confident religion.



      Well could you explain what you think hell is? it seems to be fairly critical to your beliefs since you use it as a reason to believe as you do.




      Ok, so a 'sinless person' cannot survive an encounter with god. Is god obligated to meet the "sinful people". Can't he just let them be?



      I didn't say anything about being good. I said something about not causing harm to another. Is god above cariing about that? It's really just some good old boys club?




      Are you advocating Larmarkian evolution? Even if a giraffe managed to stretch its neck, this wouldn't be transferred to its children, you know?



      I didn't say I'm a Buddhist. I said I find reincarnation more likely than the whole heaven/hell thing. It's more elegant. I don't find it that likely either. I do enjoy reading Buddhist scriptures though and take the Buddhas own advice to take what works for me and leave the rest. Now that is a confident religion.



      Well could you explain what you think hell is? it seems to be fairly critical to your beliefs since you use it as a reason to believe as you do.




      Ok, so a 'sinless person' cannot survive an encounter with god. Is god obligated to meet the "sinful people". Can't he just let them be?



      I didn't say anything about being good. I said something about not causing harm to another. Is god above cariing about that? It's really just some good old boys club?




      See, it seems to me like everything that you described above is just the downside of being an ape. I don't see why thats so hard to understand. It seems like profound hubris to say that a chimpanzee can have every trait that you described above because it's a chimpanzee and that's just how apes are but, even with the knowledge that humans are apes, require some magical fairy tale to explain how humans came to have those traits.

      It also seems harmful to me. I'll ask you again as you didn't answer last time. Don't you think that actually understanding how we actually got to have what you are calling 'original sin' is a better route to follow if we want to deal with its consequences than getting our answers from a book of fairy tales?

      I'm tired of all of this. The reason i started this is for people who are like me last time.They just read the threads and posts, they don't have an account and only got tired of the repetitive Lucid Dreaming posts that made them browse here.

      This thread is not for you (PhilosopherStoned) so stop your repetitive questions that i have saw on previous threads (especially the Noogah ones)

      I'd stick with reading on Lucid Dreaming threads then waste my time on this place.

      At least free thinkers do not follow a code and have similar traits that atheists have.Maybe you can try and disprove all (10,000 over)religions that would then convince me that there is no God.

      And again I'm not trying to escape but i kinda know where this is going.Over 10 threads i saw led to the same thing(Most featuring you).

    24. #24
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      So what you're saying is that you can't defend your fundamentalist hellfire beliefs? I hope I'm not being presumptuous but I do smell it in your OP or I wouldn't have responded.

      If you can't defend them, why would you want to convert people to them? Again, I hope that I'm not being presumptuous but that is what your OP reeks of. The super slick (and again, slanted) consideration of different religions gives it away. It's a classic rhetorical device to frame the opposing argument for weakly. It gives the air of being open-minded.
      Last edited by PhilosopherStoned; 09-13-2009 at 07:29 AM.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

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      Member Bonsay's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      Maybe you can try and disprove all (10,000 over)religions that would then convince me that there is no God.
      Maybe you can try and prove one (1) religion, that would then convince me that there is a god.
      Last edited by Bonsay; 09-13-2009 at 06:07 PM.
      C:\Documents and Settings\Akul\My Documents\My Pictures\Sig.gif

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