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    1. #1
      Member Nefarious's Avatar
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      Interesting Thought

      Can we assume that living is in fact "hell" because it is a godless existence filled with torture and suffering. While no existence is heaven because it's the perfect state where you don't need anything and you don't have anything.

      Sure you can say that there is pleasure on earth but I think that time itself is torture. If you can be immortal and have anything and everything imaginable experienced trough infinite time wouldn't you suffer? Because you have a constant need for something new.

      And what is all the pleasure on earth worth if you are approaching death?

      So you might think that if you die you go to hell if you reborn, or go to heaven if you stop existing.

    2. #2
      stellar flotsam <span class='glow_808080'>cygnus</span>'s Avatar
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      if cyclic existence is the process of being born, dying, and being re-born, karma and suffering may be the causes. suffering doesn't exist inherently, it arises in dependence of dualism, or attachment and aversion. but...

      suffering is a part of life, and i guess you are saying that when unborn you are potentially free of need and pain. the way we live in a dream, when unborn or possessing some non-physical sentience can cause the same experiences of either realm; you can experience good and bad things but ultimately can be free of human limitation.

      i can see what you mean about time itself being torture because i think of life sometimes in the same way: being restless and needing something new. pleasure during life in relation to approaching death could be insignificant, because death can bring about liberation.

      i think that dreaming gives you a glimpse of what death or being unborn is. it's the primary experience of non-existence or non-"real life" that i've had, and is the only way i can make an educated guess about these things.
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    3. #3
      Legend Jeff777's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
      Can we assume that living is in fact "hell" because it is a godless existence filled with torture and suffering.
      I think subjective perception is the name of the game here.
      Things are not as they seem

    4. #4
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
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      Personally I quite enjoy existing.

    5. #5
      Member Nefarious's Avatar
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      I wasn't talking about the perception of life here just the difference between imperfect life to perfect nothingness. Either way living is very strange it would make much more sense to not exist or at least to be a thoughtless animal or tree.

      Sure most people enjoy living they are quite lost in their lives and they don't think like that until they are very old and close to death when they reflect on their life without their daily thoughts.

      If non existence were dreams I would be happy to non exist forever, however non existence is a perfect state of nothingness. Closest thing to non existence is being put to sleep during surgery.
      Last edited by Nefarious; 09-21-2009 at 03:54 AM.

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Personally I quite enjoy existing.
      Yes, my life is relatively comfortable compared to the endless suffering of the OP.

    7. #7
      Member davej's Avatar
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      "Can we assume that living is in fact "hell" because it is a godless"

      My life is not Godless because God lives within me.
      Live to fish, fish to live!

    8. #8
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by davej View Post
      My life is not Godless because God lives within me.
      You got that right!
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    9. #9
      Member Nefarious's Avatar
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      Lots of people feel godless. I believe in the existence of god just not exactly in my plane of life.

      Life isn't hell for me, I feel that living is strange. I see godless people around me. I see suffering. I see other people happy and lost in their own lives until they die.

      But my feelings or opinions are so unimportant just like myself.

      I am just trying to draw another image of hell unlike the one described in religions. And heaven a perfect state of non existence.

      What can be more perfect than nothingness? Perhaps only god which is a perfectly balanced state of everything.

    10. #10
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      <span class='glow_8B0000'>Zhaylin</span>'s Avatar
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      I am godless right now and I'm miserable. Sin is what separates us from the Christian God (I can speak for other religions).
      The occasional sin is what makes us human. We ask for forgiveness with sincerity and STOP commiting the sin. Lapses, too make us human. But PRACTICING willful sin causes a division between us and God. We know we're not serious, God knows we're not serious and until we truly repent, he won't be part of our life and our prayers won't even be heard.

      But for certain sects of the Christian faith, the torment experienced on earth is just a temporary state. God didn't create heaven for people, though 144,000 will go there. Hell is simply is common grave of all mankind (not a fiery place of torture).
      What makes life on earth miserable now is sin and those extreme in their practice of it (such as thieves, murderers, terrorists etc) and the imperfections of mankind don't help either (break-ups, divorce, gossipers etc).

      In the future, though, the wicked will be removed. Then earth will be a paradise on which only the righteous will dwell. And they'll have ever-lasting life.
      Yes, they'll continue to have basic needs but think of everything a person could accomplish if they never got sick or old or died. Imagine the technology that could be invented that was 100% earth friendly, or the way food would taste when it grows like it should. Then there's all the various forms of art that could be mastered, invented, brought back. My hubby collects Amberina art glass circa 1800's early 1900's. The glass is so thin when you tap the edge with a fingernail it will ring for minutes. Real gold was added to the mixture which made the glass and gave it it's color. But no one alive today can reproduce it. It took someone their entire life to master the trade. The same with true cameo art glass. The masters of the original trade used the most crude tools to create works of art. It took years just to create one piece.

      *shrug* I look forward to things like that being brought back.

      But I understand some of what you're saying. you sound depressed. When I become very low emotionally, the finish line of my religion seems too far away and unobtainable. Falling asleep in eternal death sounds like heaven.
      But then I ask myself, what truly is 100 years tops in the grand scheme of things when compared to an eternity? If I must suffer for a few years (or even my life time), so be it... these years are like the thought of a breath when compared to an eternity.

    11. #11
      stellar flotsam <span class='glow_808080'>cygnus</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
      I wasn't talking about the perception of life here just the difference between imperfect life to perfect nothingness. Either way living is very strange it would make much more sense to not exist or at least to be a thoughtless animal or tree.
      i don't believe in nothingness or the christian concept of hell. i'm fascinated by non-human life, particularly plants. they're able to thrive in such a wide variety of habitats and are in such perfect harmony with everything. the idea of judgement or a select crowd of people being saved is so bizarre to me. human ego is what seems to be unnatural.

      my impression wasn't that the OP is depressed or suffering. i think our human patterns of thought.. human existence... is strange. the topic does go off in every direction, though.
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