Unelias, I would be interested in getting more of your perspective on this issue. Unfortunately, I fear soon this thread will get subject-raped and soon be just another stupid debate on what's "real" and what "isn't real" instead of the purpose I wrote this for- to get people on both ends to stop acting like douchebags.
I think it's awsome that you're highly trained in martial arts. That would be a factor I never considered, and really don't know how it would go, because I am completely ignorant about the mental and physical discipline that that requires. Either way, if you'll please note, I did correct myself- because I didn't realize that particular sentence would be scruitinized so heavily (because it has...nothing.. to do with my central idea), I clarified what I meant in an earlier post.
I know that I can't obviously convert you to Christianity and make you be a devoit Christian. What I can do is give the illusion of the feeling of the "presence of god" or whathave you, and I only do that to prove that when people are feeling the "presence of the holy spirit" they are feeling nothing more than electrical impulses that stimulate certain parts of their body and mind, and that can be completely recreated in its full intensity at anytime by anyone who even remotely knows what they're doing.
That's all I'm saying. I assumed you were getting defensive because, well frankly, most people do when they feel like they're being told they aren't in control. Also, suggestions... yes, that's part of what is used. Suggestions by themselves wouldn't work. The way I hypnotize, the person doesn't know, and never finds out what I'm doing. They just think they came up with ideas on their own accord. If you live in America, and English is your primary language, I guarantee you these things have affected you in some way. You're right though- no human can completely control another. I don't have any reason to believe that is possible. That said, humans can MOSTLY control other humans. You said it yourself-- what's religion? media?
Anyway, back to my POINT :
In my opinion, faith is open-mindedness, as long as that's what it remains. For me that's true. And no, I cause you absolutely no harm by believing what I believe. And I, like many others, don't stand on what I believe in as if it's the one truth. This is the problem with words. To you, faith seems to mean something completely different from what it means to me.
You didn't answer my question though, so I'll specify it further- Does my "belief" that after I die, I will come back in a new way in any way harm you? I occasionally share my thoughts on things like that with others. I do not impose them upon people, nor would I ever be as arrogant as to say "this is the way it happens and there's no alternative," because you are absolutely right. People like that will never know truth. I may, because in my opinion, being willing to understand science as fact, and yet be willing to accept that there is a lot of shit we can't even begin to understand, and not be so arrogant as to believe that we already know absolutely everything, and thus, everything that is not backed by science is bullshit.
It's just not true. The "if you can't prove it, then it doesn't exist" mentality, is just as arrogant, close-minded, and frankly, just plain unfortunate of a mindset as the hardcore believers who pick an ideology, say "this is the only way, and everyone else is dumb, because it's OBVIOUS that (blah blah blah)." It's just as arrogant. The only difference is, at least the non-believer has SOME basis for spewing his bullshit. But like I always say, science can prove what there is, but not what there isn't. To me, you are not open-minded until you are willing to accept things from both ends.
Now, I already know what you'll likely say next, so I will say it for you. I too believe things when I see evidence of them. Most people who are non-believers (what a generic term- non believers in what?) are the same way. I admit, that I don't need science to prove all things, as you perhaps might.
But that's my point. I am willing to be open to the possibility of things that seem reasonable to me based on a combination of personal experience, and scientific aspects that we don't fully understand, without needing concrete scientific evidence. To me, that is open-mindedness. My point is, regardless of what you believe, and what I believe, we all should respect one another.
Otherwise, you're generalizing. "All believers are idiots who create problems in the world." yes, I'm aware that none of you said that, but there are people who do. Hell, there are people in this forum, who say things like that. It's ignorant. Where's the "science" to back that up? Because of course, you realize, that general statements like that, even excluding the word "all" is technically, by definition, a belief, and thus the utterer of that statement is not only a moron, but a hypocrite. Get my drift?
Just be nice to one another. Despite what you might think, my thoughts and beliefs and ideas have nothing to do with you. They will never cause you any harm or danger. So don't bash me for what I choose to think about. You are entitled to your own beliefs and opinons and thoughts and theories, which I may or may not agree with, but I don't DISRESPECT you for them.
Otherwise, you're generalizing, which is the same ignorant shit that racists, sexists, and homophobics are guilty of. (by the way, I'm not saying YOU responders of this thread are that way, I'm just using the word "you" to be emphatic. You're actually all pretty cool about this best I can tell.)
So anyway, that's the point of this thread. To try to get people to stop bashing people. I don't agree with most scientologists. I don't agree with most Christians/Catholics whatever. I think it's all rubbish. But my best friend is a completely devout Catholic, and I have no problem with that. We never argue, we occasionally jest, but when we do debate, it's always very neutral. Neither of us get hard feelings about it. He shares his perspective with me, I share mine with him, I share why I agree or disagree and he does the same.
There's no need for all of the hostility that a lot of people throw on each other. All it does is add hate to the world. Some of the greatest people in the world were religious and chose to do beautiful things with it. There are goods and evils of every aspect of faith, including the non-believers, (though in my experience, the non-believers tend to be less radical.) Mother Theresa is an obvious example, but there are people all over the world who do that same thing. And yes, while doing so, many of those groups preach about the "word of god." But those people who do beautiful things for people, and commit random acts of kindness tend to go unnoticed by non-believers.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel as though non-believers (i'm just going to continue using that term for the purposes of this post. Sorry if it seems general) try to convince themselves that people who believe in something are somehow evil just because they have a different point of view that you think is inferior. So you (again, not literally YOU people here-- just in general 'people') try to justify your rudeness and blatent and outward detest of these people and their beliefs by convincing yourself that they're evil, when in fact, there is almost no basis for that.
You're all about proving things, right? So how can one have such a simplistic view of such an insanely large group of people?
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