Thread: It is as if Christians are TRYING to confuse people

Some people just don't know and say holyspirit XP

But I think holy spirit is the intuition inside one self, inspired by holy spirit = inspired by intuition.

Christians may say only christians can do it , but that's all lie everyone can ,maybe not right now but they can.

You know if you spent as much time studying your school books instead of wasting your time getting all emotional and bent out of shape regarding Christians you may actually achieve something great in your life. You made your point apparent in every single thread you've started. We get it. You dislike Christians. Now that you've expressed yourself and gotten that off your shoulders move on with your life. Go do some regular teenager stuff. Go chase some young girls ass instead of coming in here whining and complaining about a group of people who are not even remotely thinking about you.



/Thread

it's like a spiritual orgasm or something, i think.

...but yeah, no offense, but you may have some anger problems so you should probably seek professional help with that. maybe you need a little bit of that holy spirit in you, yeah? no? okay.

Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

You know if you spent as much time studying your school books instead of wasting your time getting all emotional and bent out of shape regarding Christians you may actually achieve something great in your life. You made your point apparent in every single thread you've started. We get it. You dislike Christians. Now that you've expressed yourself and gotten that off your shoulders move on with your life. Go do some regular teenager stuff. Go chase some young girls ass instead of coming in here whining and complaining about a group of people who are not even remotely thinking about you.



/Thread

I do not dislike Christians in general. I dislike people who worship sadists. And it just so happens that most Christians appear to believe that God is the biggest sadist of all. Christians of this variety should be kept in institutions, because it is no different to worshipping Hitler, Stalin or any other infamous egomaniacal bigot.

About the endtime thread? Yeah, if I really did not like Christians then I WOULDN'T BOTHER. Why would I want to show them what their own holy book says if I did not care?

Once again, not all Christians speak in fucking tongues like the guys I am speaking about do. The title of the thread was a generalisation, yes, but unless one honestly thinks that I believe there are no rational Christians out there, then it should become apparent that I am speaking about the majority of Christians, and not all Christians.

When Christians tell people they worship an evil sadist, they are asking almost masochistically to be hated. Likewise, when a Christian claims that he has some kind of knowledge above you because God has been oh so special to him and therefore he can't tell you, he is asking to be hated.

I did not make this thread for Christian hatred, I made it so that they could TELL ME WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. The reason I am so angry is because I feel like they are trying to hide something. They DELIBERATLY make their words all mystical and fancy IN ORDER to confuse us. If Christians can't tell us what the Holy Spirit is like, then HOW WILL I KNOW IF I WERE TO RECEIVE IT? By refusing to tell people they are effectively sniggering with a prideful and sadistic glee because they want their heaven to themselves. They wouldn't want filthy fucking atheists like me anywhere near it.

And by the way, if you say that is wrong, and you do care... well you shouldn't, because YOUR GOD doesn't care! Atheists in heaven? PAH! What blasphemy!

The thing is I actually care about what Christ probably is, and I care about what the Holy Spirit probably is. It's assholes who dress up their everyday lives because they can't BEAR how insignificant they are that ruin it for me.

If the answer is, "Well, it varies from person to person" then WELL DONE! You've just proven that your 'Holy Spirit' is nothing more than a subjective label. If it differs from person to person then I guess that I receive the Holy Spirit from the pleasure I get by pissing sadists, bigots and bloodworshippers off, so there we go, I have the Holy Spirit, case closed.

Can you DISPROVE that?

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I do not dislike Christians in general. I dislike people who worship sadists. And it just so happens that most Christians appear to believe that God is the biggest sadist of all. Christians of this variety should be kept in institutions, because it is no different to worshipping Hitler, Stalin or any other infamous egomaniacal bigot.

Okay well that's your opinion and you are entitled to that. I know where you are coming from. Because I feel the exact same way. I look down on Atheist I dislike them plain and simple, but that's just me. I'm entitled to that. It's obvious to every Atheist in here that I look down on them. So I don't need to express it any further than what you see in most of my replies.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

About the endtime thread? Yeah, if I really did not like Christians then I WOULDN'T BOTHER. Why would I want to show them what their own holy book says if I did not care?

That's the point. You didn't bother. You created the thread and you posted all of what 2 or 3 times?? Then you ran off with some lame ass excuse about being tired or some dumb shit like that. At the same time you've been posting your ass off in other topics of R/S.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Once again, not all Christians speak in fucking tongues like the guys I am speaking about do. The title of the thread was a generalisation, yes, but unless one honestly thinks that I believe there are no rational Christians out there, then it should become apparent that I am speaking about the majority of Christians, and not all Christians.

Okay so what, you're talking about some guys speaking in tongues and you don't have the slightest clue what's being said. Why care? How does this have a major impact on your life? Why should you care? Why choose to care about not understanding someone opposed to chasing some girls ass?

Originally Posted by Idolfan

When Christians tell people they worship an evil sadist, they are asking almost masochistically to be hated. Likewise, when a Christian claims that he has some kind of knowledge above you because God has been oh so special to him and therefore he can't tell you, he is asking to be hated.

Okay well thats fine, you hate Christians, instead of getting yourself all bent out shape and worked up over a group of people who are not thinking about you, you should figure out a way to channel all that anger and animosity into something constructive. Make your mother a I love you card just to show her that you do. Tell your old man to take you fishing sometime or throw the football for a change. Use that hatred and anger and channel it into something positive and reach out for the people that you care about.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I did not make this thread for Christian hatred, I made it so that they could TELL ME WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

Okay well I will clear this up then. IF you want to know what the Holy Spirit is then this is exactly what it is. It's God's active force.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

The reason I am so angry is because I feel like they are trying to hide something.

No the reason why you are so angry is because you need a life. Get one.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

They DELIBERATLY make their words all mystical and fancy IN ORDER to confuse us. If Christians can't tell us what the Holy Spirit is like, then HOW WILL I KNOW IF I WERE TO RECEIVE IT? By refusing to tell people they are effectively sniggering with a prideful and sadistic glee because they want their heaven to themselves. They wouldn't want filthy fucking atheists like me anywhere near it.

You don't believe in God why care??? If you do not have a genuine belief in God then why should you give a damn what a person says about God's Holy Spirit???

Originally Posted by Idolfan

And by the way, if you say that is wrong, and you do care... well you shouldn't, because YOUR GOD doesn't care! Atheists in heaven? PAH! What blasphemy!

In regards to Atheist, no I don't care. I can care less where Atheist end up when they check out.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

The thing is I actually care about what Christ probably is, and I care about what the Holy Spirit probably is. It's assholes who dress up their everyday lives because they can't BEAR how insignificant they are that ruin it for me.

Okay well if you care then care, if not then don't. Either way you still could be doing something more constructive at 17 then having all of these anger issues that you have which (mark my word) will eventually manifest itself into a health issue if you do not get it under control.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

If the answer is, "Well, it varies from person to person" then WELL DONE! You've just proven that your 'Holy Spirit' is nothing more than a subjective label. If it differs from person to person then I guess that I receive the Holy Spirit from the pleasure I get by pissing sadists, bigots and bloodworshippers off, so there we go, I have the Holy Spirit, case closed.

Can you DISPROVE that?

I'll say this. My honest opinion I don't think people can feel the Holy Spirit. The ones who say they do are usually Christian fundamentalists. I've never felt it but I believe it exist. So if you've never felt it don't worry about it. I haven't felt it either. Now go out and chase some young girls ass.

The Shadow has spoken.

Idolfan, why are you so angry? I can see how it would fustrate you if you were really seeking the Holy Spirit and not feeling it. I was in your shoes at one time. I wasn't feeling a thing. It is hard to describe what you feel when you feel the Holy Spirit. I do believe that it may be different for different people but for me (and I will try to describe it the best i can) it is like the most incredible rush you have ever had. It is an overwhelming feeling that completly fills you up. Almost like when you fall in love but more intense. There are times when I pray (for example) over a big decision. if I am choosing the wrong direction then i usually don't feel God's presence and what he wants for me. Even though it may be something I want, it's not what God wants. When I correct my mistakes, i do feel the Holy Spirit. That is what I refer to as God talking to me.
If you have these questions, try talking to a religious leader in your community, one that you trust to find answers that you seek.

The idea is fairly basic, I'm sure. Christianity entertains the idea that this
particular inspiration or sense of ultimate well being comes from what they call
the Holy Spirit, which is in turn some essence that is key to life, or souls, or
something or other that is important to being.

It might help if you asked your questions in a calm and straightforward manner.
I should also point out that I am not a Christian and that my answer may not
be the best one. It is only what I have deduced from their beliefs on the issue
thus far.

This sort of thing annoys me a little too. For a lot of people, religion = emotionalism. There's no logic in it. They believe everything they're told without studying about it personally. Or they get an emotional high from the religious services.

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Holy Spirit is NOT a third "person" of a trinitarian god-head, but is God's active force. It's somewhat blasphemous for me to think in such terms, lol, but because of my past, I tend to think of Holy Spirit as God's "magick".
Holy Spirit comes in many different forms- your conscience; being at the right place at the right time; a feeling/certainty etc.
When the first century Christians were filled with "Holy Spirit" and began speaking in tongues, it shows that such spirit isn't ONE thing.

All of the "born-again" and Pentecostal Christians I've known seem to believe Holy Spirit is little more than a feeling of euphoria.
Sometimes a Christian has the "peace of God" settle over them which includes that euphoric feeling, but Holy Spirit is so much more than that.

Being touched by the holy spirit, means experiencing euphoria from a religous event. It would be like if you saw something extremely beautiful and were in awe over it, but in religious context.

Places can have strong impact on people. Churches and important religious places tend to have strong presence about them of being holy or sacred. Just like spooky houses or cemeteries might have a creepy presence about them.

The stronger your connection to something, the stronger that feeling as well. If for example you read all your life about the statue of liberty then you went to see it in person, it would probably have a strong impact on you. People who are highly religious feel the same thing about holy places.

Even nonreligious people can get feelings like that, based on the kind of grand architecture used in some churches.

To see a vision, is to have a moment of insight or a eureka moment. Suddenly something comes to mind that solves your problem. Or suddenly enlightment just comes to you. A religious person believes this is a message from god.

When god or the holy spirit works through you, they are referring to the feeling of being compelled to do something. At times you may feel compelled to do things, and not know why. When the goal is to improve the world and better man(as opposed getting up and eating a donut), it is said to be a message from god, or god is working through you.

Also when you have qualities about yourself that come from unknown source, such a morals, that is said to be god or the holy spirit with you. Having strong sense of morals or justice or just being a good person for no other reason than because you are inheritly a good person, is considered to be having god within you.

The holy spirit is the ethical, kind, compassionate side of people. Generally what makes good people good. Everyone knows what is right or wrong, even if they do wrong. The knowing what is right is the holy spirit trying to tell you what to do.

When god speaks to you, people are either refering to multiple flashes of insight that leads them down the same path, and in a sense he is guiding them, or one big one that comes right after praying for an answer.

To make it really simple, it is all different internal processes that people experience through their life. The deep strong inner works of mind, coming to the surface. Either they are entirely within your brain, or they come from your soul. If they come from your brain you dont believe in religion, if they come from your soul then you probably believe in some sort of religion.

Though you can believe in having a soul, and thinking all of the stuff is still coming from inside of you and not an outside source.

I know how you can feel the holy spirit right now. Think of something that really pisses you off. I mean to the extreme. Something that is morally wrong and you know it is wrong deep down in your core. Something that if you saw you would speak out against it, because it is that bad. Now picture everyone thinking it is okay, and doing it in front of you.

If you do it right, you should be so out raged that you can't even sit in your chair. You will stands up, and it will make you mad. If you thought of something bad enough and that happened, then you just felt the holy spirit within you, stiring your sense of justice.

If you kind of have a bland reaction, then either it wasn't bad enough or you don't have the holy spirit with in you.

Originally Posted by Alric

Being touched by the holy spirit, means experiencing euphoria from a religous event. It would be like if you saw something extremely beautiful and were in awe over it, but in religious context.

Places can have strong impact on people. Churches and important religious places tend to have strong presence about them of being holy or sacred. Just like spooky houses or cemeteries might have a creepy presence about them.

The stronger your connection to something, the stronger that feeling as well. If for example you read all your life about the statue of liberty then you went to see it in person, it would probably have a strong impact on you. People who are highly religious feel the same thing about holy places.

Even nonreligious people can get feelings like that, based on the kind of grand architecture used in some churches.

To see a vision, is to have a moment of insight or a eureka moment. Suddenly something comes to mind that solves your problem. Or suddenly enlightment just comes to you. A religious person believes this is a message from god.

When god or the holy spirit works through you, they are referring to the feeling of being compelled to do something. At times you may feel compelled to do things, and not know why. When the goal is to improve the world and better man(as opposed getting up and eating a donut), it is said to be a message from god, or god is working through you.

Also when you have qualities about yourself that come from unknown source, such a morals, that is said to be god or the holy spirit with you. Having strong sense of morals or justice or just being a good person for no other reason than because you are inheritly a good person, is considered to be having god within you.

The holy spirit is the ethical, kind, compassionate side of people. Generally what makes good people good. Everyone knows what is right or wrong, even if they do wrong. The knowing what is right is the holy spirit trying to tell you what to do.

When god speaks to you, people are either refering to multiple flashes of insight that leads them down the same path, and in a sense he is guiding them, or one big one that comes right after praying for an answer.

To make it really simple, it is all different internal processes that people experience through their life. The deep strong inner works of mind, coming to the surface. Either they are entirely within your brain, or they come from your soul. If they come from your brain you dont believe in religion, if they come from your soul then you probably believe in some sort of religion.

Though you can believe in having a soul, and thinking all of the stuff is still coming from inside of you and not an outside source.

I know how you can feel the holy spirit right now. Think of something that really pisses you off. I mean to the extreme. Something that is morally wrong and you know it is wrong deep down in your core. Something that if you saw you would speak out against it, because it is that bad. Now picture everyone thinking it is okay, and doing it in front of you.

If you do it right, you should be so out raged that you can't even sit in your chair. You will stands up, and it will make you mad. If you thought of something bad enough and that happened, then you just felt the holy spirit within you, stiring your sense of justice.

If you kind of have a bland reaction, then either it wasn't bad enough or you don't have the holy spirit with in you.

That is a great description, thanks!

Even people like Richard Dawkins say that they feel such a feeling when they look at the wonders of the universe and stuff. I guess this makes a lot of sense.

So perhaps, are Christian Fundamentalists simply more dominated by their limbic system and emotions? This, combined with the immunity to logic, could perhaps swing their mind around a little.

Well great things cause a sense of wonder in a person. Image you are in the space shuttle, in space and you look out over earth as the sun raises. The beauty would be something that would likely move you.

However there is no logical reason for it. You are simply seeing a giant ball of rock, while floating around in a buch of extremely thin air in a tin can.

People think that it stirs something deeper though, something in their soul. It is a lot nicer to think art comes from the soul. Instead of art being random junk our brains tell us should be beautiful, as a evolutionary tactic to get over boredom.

I agree with Alric lol. though I think its a bit more than to get over boredom

Any time Ive seen people who claim they feel the holy spirit it is indeed just an intense feeling of euphorea at a religious event, and on top of that it gives people the sensation (illusion?) that they are some how connected with the divine in that instant.

Well you don't have be religious to believe in having a soul. The soul is what makes up your your sense of morals and justice, what allows you to feel in awe over amazing things and enjoy art, and all other such feelings that seem to be a natural fundamental part of what makes you, who you are. There is definitely things that point to people having souls.

If you believe the soul is coming from an outside source, then it is religion or spirituality. If you believe the soul is coming from deep within your mind, then it is more philosophy.

hmm but in most religions soul simply means the essence of you that survives after death. so the philosophical and spirtual meanings are a little more different than inside and outside.

Wondering where you go when you die and if there is an after life is a philosophical thing as well. When you try to put definite answers to it, it becomes more religious.

Originally Posted by Alric

When you try to put definite answers to it, it becomes more religious.

It wouldn't have to be if God had allowed us to actually study the concept scientifically.

Many have tried and failed, which makes me think for the time being that the concept of an afterlife is a rape to the human psyche. A bit like a child driving a car. It's just goddamn backwards, we can hardly speak yet!

It's as if Idolfan is making more "I'm no-longer a christian with sexual constraints and hypocrisy" thread.

Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

Okay well that's your opinion and you are entitled to that. I know where you are coming from. Because I feel the exact same way. I look down on Atheist I dislike them plain and simple, but that's just me. I'm entitled to that. It's obvious to every Atheist in here that I look down on them. So I don't need to express it any further than what you see in most of my replies.



That's the point. You didn't bother. You created the thread and you posted all of what 2 or 3 times?? Then you ran off with some lame ass excuse about being tired or some dumb shit like that. At the same time you've been posting your ass off in other topics of R/S.



Okay so what, you're talking about some guys speaking in tongues and you don't have the slightest clue what's being said. Why care? How does this have a major impact on your life? Why should you care? Why choose to care about not understanding someone opposed to chasing some girls ass?



Okay well thats fine, you hate Christians, instead of getting yourself all bent out shape and worked up over a group of people who are not thinking about you, you should figure out a way to channel all that anger and animosity into something constructive. Make your mother a I love you card just to show her that you do. Tell your old man to take you fishing sometime or throw the football for a change. Use that hatred and anger and channel it into something positive and reach out for the people that you care about.



Okay well I will clear this up then. IF you want to know what the Holy Spirit is then this is exactly what it is. It's God's active force.



No the reason why you are so angry is because you need a life. Get one.



You don't believe in God why care??? If you do not have a genuine belief in God then why should you give a damn what a person says about God's Holy Spirit???



In regards to Atheist, no I don't care. I can care less where Atheist end up when they check out.



Okay well if you care then care, if not then don't. Either way you still could be doing something more constructive at 17 then having all of these anger issues that you have which (mark my word) will eventually manifest itself into a health issue if you do not get it under control.



I'll say this. My honest opinion I don't think people can feel the Holy Spirit. The ones who say they do are usually Christian fundamentalists. I've never felt it but I believe it exist. So if you've never felt it don't worry about it. I haven't felt it either. Now go out and chase some young girls ass.

The Shadow has spoken.

AMEN Shadow, IdolFan is a frustrated, useless, forum-troll. I'm not ranting I'm speaking my mind.

I see you, IdolFan, in too many discussions spitting fire at everything and everyone. Interrupting intelligent discussions and turning them into pathetic, uncivilised rants.

You're like a plug up of dirt in the canal of intelligence. A wisdom inhibitor. Get out of here man, I bet you'd do a heap of people a big favor.


Large groups of religious folks: Christians, Muslims, Jews, Krishnas, Sihks..etc are indoctrinated and completely brainwashed into irrational, megalomaniac, intolerant and ignorant views and behaviours by their religious leaders.

That's why they believe everything happening to them is MORE special somehow. They feel chosen, Priviledged; They feel more worthy than others. Purer. They are brainwashed into seeing inequality and conflict where they used to see peace and equality.

Nevertheless are their plenty of Religious people of mentioned religions who's religion is a positive good thing.
You see it's not what Religion makes of people, it's what People make of Religion.

So to say all Religion is bad is a bad, untruthfull generalisation, but for this reason I myself have developped a sort of allergic reaction against organised ideology.
Let's stay on topic and not allow pathetic frustrated people like IdolFan to derail this great, intelligent discussion.

I only read about 3/4 of this thread, just a heads up.

In any case, while I do think that the majority of the Christian religion has a lot of factual as well as philosophical inaccuracies, I do believe in the sensation that people describe as "The Feeling of the Holy Spirit". I do not think it is necessarily a god or real being of any sort, but I have had that feeling, and it seems almost impossible that religious people are describing anything BUT that feeling when they refer to the feeling of the holy spirit, or whatever deity they worship.


It's always a bit difficult to describe how emotions feel, but I'll give it a shot. I always think that it feels a whole lot like INTENSE love/connection. It feels like it's the very meaning of being alive. You seem to have some kind of connection with something, sort of like how it feels when you listen to music that you are really attached to, except it's that feeling amplified tremendously (Really, I feel that music gives me that feeling whenever I can connect with it, it's just a hint of the feeling though). You have probably felt it already in inextreme amounts, like if you've ever had any experience with love, or if you've ever enjoyed music, I think you have felt it, just slightly though. You can go through life having felt that several times, and never realizing how powerful and beautiful of a feeling it can really be, which I think is what many people do. When the feeling is extremely strong, which is probably what christians may be referring to, it feels to me almost like my heart/"spirit" is having an orgasm.

Really, I think it's the same sensation of being alive, or having love and connection, and it's only described as the feeling of the holy spirit when the feeling is very intense. To me, it's the same thing though.


I don't know what your opinion is on the usage of psychedelics, but I'll say that my first experience of feeling this feeling intensely, and making the connection between it and what people describe as god/spirituality, was when I first used psilocybe mushrooms. I have felt it almost as intensely as love for a girl, but it didn't seem reasonable to make the connection to the feeling god or a spiritual being at the time, because I merely understood it as love, and didn't realise that it can be present outside of romance. From the 3 times i've used shrooms, I have felt this feeling throughout almost the entire experience. I don't know if others do feel the feeling when they use shrooms, but I assume I'm not the first, as psilocybes have been used as entheogens for thousands of years, so that must mean that at least some feel the same feeling under their influence.

But yeah. Just for clarification, I am an agnostic and do not have a drug habit of any sort, just use psychedelics on rare occasions, because I enjoy exploring my mind. Now I can't say for sure this is what christians mean when they say that they felt the holy spirit, but when I first felt it on mushrooms I instantly made the connection between that feeling and some kind of god or spirit. I don't necessarily believe in god or spirits, but I do believe the spiritual sensation is what I felt, and that it is indeed powerful. Whether or not the presence of the spiritual feeling actually means that a god or a spirit really actually exist is beyond me, however. It's a feeling, and it feels that way, but that doesn't rationally prove the physical existence of such a being in my eyes, it only proves the existence of the sensation of such a being.

I am not connected to any organised religion and yet, if you say "feeling the holy spirit" and "God's Glory" I can definitely relate to that.

No need for a holy book, church or preacher. I agree with the view that "God" is our Intuition. Intuition being the divine part of self present in every human being.

There are occult groups of Christians, Krishnas, Sihks that deliberately spread fear, hatred, confusion and then offer protection, peace and clearity to those they've made besides themselves with fear, hatred and confusion. Much the same way that cosmetic corporations launch commercial campaigns to make us feel old, unattractive and insecure while at the same time offering us (fake)rejuvenating and cosmeticly masking ointments, cremes, foods..etc

It is a tested and proven to be effective mind-manipulation practice used for 1000nds of years by merchants and churches.

Originally Posted by SKA

There are occult groups of Christians, Krishnas, Sihks that deliberately spread fear, hatred, confusion and then offer protection, peace and clearity to those they've made besides themselves with fear, hatred and confusion.

I wouldn't say they were occult, more like mainstream.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

It's as if Idolfan is making more "I'm no-longer a christian with sexual constraints and hypocrisy" thread.

I was never a bloody Christian so STFU. I just had insane paranoia.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I was never a bloody Christian so STFU. I just had insane paranoia.

el oh freakin el

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

el oh freakin el

I thought you'd find it funny. Shall I tell you about the time I used to fucking retch over the toilet every day because I was so consumed by it? You might just cream yourself over it. Just imagine spreading those cheeks of mine and plunging your sadistic cock into me.