Proof Christianity IS a Farce!!

I have seen many threads agruing about christianity on here.
I would like to present you with a few passages, the only passages needed, that will show you
1) Christianity is a farce, a fake and insulting to anyone with any sense of mindfulness.
&
2) (for all the christians that are going to argue against me in this thread) that even if somehow the religion is true 97% of ALL Christians WILL go to HELL!

1)"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."-Exodus 20:5-6
What does this mean? This shows that your God commits sin. Oh but you'll say that it's not a jealousy of the flesh? BULLSHIT!!! for Jesus was of the Flesh and was the fathers son... Or does this mean we can be jealous of other religions???... As long as it's for the benifit or the Christian God huh...
:clap:
2)"Thou shalt not
make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any
thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth
beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth"-Exodus 20:4
This is the big one. Lets break it down: ok to make a graven image that means not to make anything AT ALL that represents ANY GOD even the speaker himself (The Christian God). But ALL Christians ahave broken this one very simple law, every single phrase of it. The Jews have the Star of David which is of the heavens above, the Catholic and all following denominations of that sect have the WOODEN CROSS which is of the Earth below the heavens. Also the more recent Christians created the Fish that's supposed to represent Jesus, the fish being of the Waters underneath.... Holy Shit!!! Think about how many people Don't know this and are to blind and stupid to actually read the book they devote their "souls" to... OMG seriously people wake up! This religion like almost all others that are hundreds of years old are MAN MADE AND ARE RIDDELED WITH FLAWS THAT MAKE THEM EVIL ACCORDING TO THEMSELVES....
:woohoo: :horse: 'beatin the shit outta the largest fairytale story ever wrote since 2000'
Now for my take on this:
I have a couple theories i would like to share a hear your opinions on...
1) "God" meant the Bible as a basic guideline of how the human race should treat life but not to be taken too seriously. Also "God" didn't mean that he was "God" the way we interpretted it. Quantum scientists have found that just by observing something we change it's entire existance in the universe (look it up if you don't believe me, actually i encourage you to research all of this) and so i believe that means that the first being to gain awareness was the first to actually construct the universe in this way. He was like "Oh this is this and that's that... wow" an just by being there to witness it he created it as it is. So he is the creater... not that we owe him anything. He didn't intentionally say oh i think i'll make a human today and play with him *POOF* (best army men ever) lol.
2) "God" is EVERYTHING... He is all and ever. He is every molecule of energy any and everywhere ever. This is what he means by he mad us in his image, and that "bad" things or "sins" disrupt the flow of energy and set it into a bad wave of vibrations. Good things harmonate on a stronger more stable and soothing wave that flows best. Heaven is the Universal Mind and the whole of energy ever and to get to it you need to try to vibrate in that frequency of good and going to hell is passing away while in the vibration of bad and pain and evil things and never being able to change your vibrations to resonate with the Universal Mind and Energy of all things.
3) My third one is that there is no "God" at all but we are in a cycle of energy that has no end nor any beginning. It "Big Bangs" then the stars eventually all collapse and drag everything into black holes and once EVERYTHING falls into the last largest black hole it "Big Bangs" again and repeats forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever ETC ETC ETC.......

My beliefe is a mixture of #2 and #3...

PS: i dont attack any religion and i never start any religious or political conversation and mostly avoid them but when dumbass wanna try to prove a dumbass idea i prove them wrong... with there own material....:sniper: BOOM ANUTHA HEAD SHOT!


Edit: and no matter what none of us ASKED to be created Gods just thought they'd play... well GOD.... and I AM NOT ATHEIST or however you spell it.... i have NO RELIGION and ATHEISM is the RELIGION OF HATING RELIGIONS....

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

2)"Thou shalt not
make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any
thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth
beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth"-Exodus 20:4

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Ooooooh, some photographers are fucked! They are FUCKED!!! :shock:

http://eatmypotato.com/wp-content/up.../02/cave-2.jpg

http://legalplanet.files.wordpress.c...ean-turtle.jpg

Burn them! Burn them! Hurt them! :mad:

Do two wrongs make a right?

http://discovermagazine.com/2008/apr...s/spelunk1.jpg

LMFAO!!!! OMG.... LOL hilariouse (however that's spelled). LOL he meant that referring to idols... thing others worship... i showed this to a preacher once in my hometown and a year later he quite preaching and joined the peace core.... i was like YESSS!!!! now he's doing something that actually matters and will make a difference! lol

nice post though, i laughed for atleast an entire minute...

Thanks. Bible passages about God being arrogant and absurd really bring out my sarcasm.

so if you don't mind me asking what's your standing on the subject?

It looks like the second verse is saying not to make any image (painting, photograph, sculpture, map, etc.) of God, what is underground, or what is under the ocean's surface. It talks about a graven image and then says "or" before talking about the nature scenes. Thou shalt not
make unto thee any graven image, OR any likeness [of any
thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth
beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth" It does not say the likenesses of underground or under the ocean surface have to resemble God to be forbidden. It is one more off the wall rule in the Bible, like how you can't cut your hair on the sides and can't work on Sunday. Most Christians ignore pretty much all of the rules in the Bible. When questioned on it, they say they are old laws that don't apply to now, but then they will turn around and say that the Bible is the word of God and homosexuals are evil and evolution is a lie. It's all a bunch of chaotic madness.

The first verse you quoted spells out support for this stance I talk about sometimes...

http://dreamviews.com/community/show...ality+disorder

A big part of me has held on to Zen and other Eastern philosophical beliefs for a long time, so I am not that far from agreeing with your scientific view of existence as a god. I am just not so sure about calling it a god. It is something phenomenal, whatever it is. Notice my screen name.

yeah, i only refer to it as "God" because it's the only way to communicate it to others easily and quickly....

Not all Christians take the Old Testament superseriously. That would be like a Christian making a thread about how all atheists support abortion (and that would really piss me off).

if they don't take both books seriously then they're blasphemers already and hipocrites because Jesus in the new book says he brings the same laws that were handed down to moses by his father, and that we have to keep all the commandments his father gave.... dono the exact pages but i've read almost the whole thing.... back when i used to be a young dumb christian child, then i was like wait a second and read the entire thing except a book or two, but those weren't really relating to god they were side stories in it. I remember the bible like you would remember a book you read, you don't remember the exact words but you get the idea of what happened and when you wanna tell somebody about a part in it you know what chapter to look in... but like i said... how can they worship the son but not the father and say they still say the bible is the word of the God they follow... i'll tell you how, because it's a religion that is molded to fit the worshipers current feelings toward it.... Religions in general are all false, they're man made, and mad edited... if any God were a "God" they would be "perfect" beings and why wouldn't a perfect being be able to forgive everything if they're perfect.....

I mean, the bible basically says only god has the right to commit sins but we cannot because sins are filth and evil and all these bad things.... so if you don'y like the Christian god he has the right to murder your soul..... hmm somebody didn't have alot of friends back in god-school http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2196/...d549bc7eb2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Idolfan

Not all Christians take the Old Testament superseriously. That would be like a Christian making a thread about how all atheists support abortion (and that would really piss me off).

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Atheists don't have a single, unifying Bible that says to commit abortion.

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

if they don't take both books seriously then they're blasphemers already and hipocrites because Jesus in the new book says he brings the same laws that were handed down to moses by his father, and that we have to keep all the commandments his father gave.... dono the exact pages but i've read almost the whole thing.... back when i used to be a young dumb christian child, then i was like wait a second and read the entire thing except a book or two, but those weren't really relating to god they were side stories in it. I remember the bible like you would remember a book you read, you don't remember the exact words but you get the idea of what happened and when you wanna tell somebody about a part in it you know what chapter to look in... but like i said... how can they worship the son but not the father and say they still say the bible is the word of the God they follow... i'll tell you how, because it's a religion that is molded to fit the worshipers current feelings toward it.... Religions in general are all false, they're man made, and mad edited... if any God were a "God" they would be "perfect" beings and why wouldn't a perfect being be able to forgive everything if they're perfect.....

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Jesus obviously could not have meant that the old laws will never change, because if he did he wouldn't have gone about changing half of them! He said that the whole law swings on the two great commandments. Just because he was born in a Jewish society doesn't mean all Christians should keep Jewish moral standards. Jesus went to great lengths describing to people about how the Jews are NOT God's chosen people. The verse in the bible, "Not one tittle of the law will pass away" or whatever it was; must have been a misinterpretation. We have for example the Gnostic Gospels, some of which, like the Gospel of Thomas, stating that Jesus does not even care about what much of the Old Testament had to say.

Christians are not being hypocrites by picking and choosing rationally out of the bible. This stigma has been added by OTHER CHRISTIANS to excercise control. A Christian cannot be told he is a hypocrit just because he does not think the bible is God's word, because he just might not believe it! It's that simple. Maybe we should call these people Jesusists instead of Christians? I dunno.

i didn't talk about jewish morals... i presented two staements made by Jesus's "Father" the christian god... which one all believers in the religion have broken and the other shows that the christian god himself sins....

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

i didn't talk about jewish morals... i presented two staements made by Jesus's "Father" the christian god... which one all believers in the religion have broken and the other shows that the christian god himself sins....

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Exodus is a Jewish scripture.

The whole thing was wrote in hebrew..... the point isn't that it's a jewish book... it's that the whole religion is a fraud. It was made my men to control men... those passages are from the same "God" all the Christian religions worship. And it's the "God" of the jews and he commanded them not to make the star of david and they did anyways...... and then the Perfect being they worship and fear to sin because of, that God sins... so how could he be a god that condems for sinning and then does it himself....?

With the many reasons to believe or not believe in a religion I am sure you could do a lot better than that. That is hardly any proof at all.

Since being jealous isn't against the commandments he listed, he made no contradiction. You basically just said it was a sin, though nothing you posted shows in any way that it was a sin.

Secondly, nearly everyone who reads that in the context given, takes it to mean that images of other gods besides the one speaking. He clearly just said he was jealous and so do not make images of other gods. So there is no reason to believe he meant to ban images of himself, only other gods. You yourself just made up the fact that he was refering to himself.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Atheists don't have a single, unifying Bible that says to commit abortion.

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Sure they do! :lol:

Dawkins took a stance on abortion did he?

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Originally Posted by Alric

With the many reasons to believe or not believe in a religion I am sure you could do a lot better than that. That is hardly any proof at all.

Since being jealous isn't against the commandments he listed, he made no contradiction. You basically just said it was a sin, though nothing you posted shows in any way that it was a sin.

Secondly, nearly everyone who reads that in the context given, takes it to mean that images of other gods besides the one speaking. He clearly just said he was jealous and so do not make images of other gods. So there is no reason to believe he meant to ban images of himself, only other gods. You yourself just made up the fact that he was refering to himself.

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jesus himself said that he came to rid the world of ALL idols... and that your faith alone is what's supposed to be your sign for him and his father... and jealousy is a sin in the Christian god's eyes, my first point was that the Christian God he imself commits a sin and the second point is that even if the christian story's true and we will die and go to either heaven or hell i know i'll be in hell but so will 99% percent of the "followers" of the religion because if you read the bible and read jesus's teachings he says he's hear to rid the world of idols, that his father hates the false pagan gods that others worship and that we are to worship his father threw FAITH and not threw any idol...

The 10 commandments weren't the only commandments he gave us, he and his son jesus christ gave many more commandments than just ten, the whole bible is filled with them... most are self contridicting, the one's i listed are the two most important at the beginning of the bible that show that if you are a christian and have EVER associated the cross, or jesus fish with jesus or the chritian god then you are going to hell, also that how can god be jealouse if he is perfect and without any flaw? wouldn't he be understanding that we are ignorant creatures and simply teach us over time that those gods are fake and he is real instead of be jealouse of them and attack his children with plagues and destruction and death?... wouldn't a "perfect" "flawless" being be able to get over it?

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Originally Posted by Xei

Dawkins took a stance on abortion did he?

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He did. Haven't you read the atheist's bible God Delusion?

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

He did. Haven't you read the atheist's bible God Delusion?

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i had a friend that was an atheist.... he lives his life to attack religions, i mean he goes to churches to argue senslessly how stupid the believers are.
And before someone says " oh but that's what you're doing here!" no, i stated in my first post that i don't usually partake in religiouse or political debates or conversations and i keep my beliefs to myself usually but i had found couple threads on here about it so i decided to share what i had found... anyways, i can't stand most atheist's simply because they usually verbally attack or think ill of anyone that thinks there's anything more than just organic material... a soul will get you screamed at, afterlife will get you swung on, and don't dare say there is a condemming higher power controlling everything because you may just get stabbed (my own experiences)

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

He did. Haven't you read the atheist's bible God Delusion?

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No I haven't, which is a bit weird considering I'm an atheist, isn't it? I guess someone must have made a false assertion somewhere or something...

What did he say exactly?

If 99% of christians go to hell, that means that 20 million christains alive today, are still going to go to heaven.

Let us assume for a moment you are right in your interrupation. Does that really prove that the religion is wrong? Or does it show that worshipping idols is bad, and that the bible, Jesus and God all warned Christians not to follow false images, knowing it would get them in trouble?

A popular complaint people make about Christians are about how people used the religion for violence. A good example is the crusades. However if you look, in all the crusades they marched under symbols of the church. If you took God's message to heart, you would never march to war under a flag of god, which is a false idol.

People often take out dated things from the bible and use that to say the bible is bad or wrong. But the bible itself as well as Jesus warn that you can not always follow outdated rules written by people long dead.

The bible and Jesus are strong supporters of that fact that some times you must follow the rules and some time you need to wake up and use your brain.

Assuming you are right, it isn't proof that Christianity is wrong, but that the majority of Christianity has lost its way. As for God being jealous, I am pretty sure we all know that in that context he was refering to the fact that he is going to be pissed off if you go against him.

Anger is not a sin. It makes sense that a perfect god would get angry and be pissed off. There are many stories of god smiting people. It is based off the idea of rightous anger and bringing about justice.

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Originally Posted by Alric

If 99% of christians go to hell, that means that 20 million christains alive today, are still going to go to heaven.

Let us assume for a moment you are right in your interrupation. Does that really prove that the religion is wrong? Or does it show that worshipping idols is bad, and that the bible, Jesus and God all warned Christians not to follow false images, knowing it would get them in trouble?

A popular complaint people make about Christians are about how people used the religion for violence. A good example is the crusades. However if you look, in all the crusades they marched under symbols of the church. If you took God's message to heart, you would never march to war under a flag of god, which is a false idol.

People often take out dated things from the bible and use that to say the bible is bad or wrong. But the bible itself as well as Jesus warn that you can not always follow outdated rules written by people long dead.

The bible and Jesus are strong supporters of that fact that some times you must follow the rules and some time you need to wake up and use your brain.

Assuming you are right, it isn't proof that Christianity is wrong, but that the majority of Christianity has lost its way. As for God being jealous, I am pretty sure we all know that in that context he was refering to the fact that he is going to be pissed off if you go against him.

Anger is not a sin. It makes sense that a perfect god would get angry and be pissed off. There are many stories of god smiting people. It is based off the idea of rightous anger and bringing about justice.

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ok

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

hilariouse (however

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Facepalm.
I like how all of those quotes are from exodus.
the bible
and you're refuting theism. Or trying to.
And you use stupid people that practice a religion and do stupid things a stereotype for all of them.

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3) My third one is that there is no "God" at all but we are in a cycle of energy that has no end nor any beginning. It "Big Bangs" then the stars eventually all collapse and drag everything into black holes and once EVERYTHING falls into the last largest black hole it "Big Bangs" again and repeats forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever ETC ETC ETC.......

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There is no concrete evidence for this or anything you said.
I scoff.
I scoff.

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Originally Posted by Alric

Anger is not a sin. It makes sense that a perfect god would get angry and be pissed off. There are many stories of god smiting people. It is based off the idea of rightous anger and bringing about justice.

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So sending meteors down and mercilessly destroying two cities...
Commanding the slaughter of millions of women, children and animals...
Flooding the entire Earth to cause the genocide of billions of creatures...

That's all righteous judgement is it? Damn... and people wonder why I wouldn't let you near my kids if I were to have any.

Anger is NOT an attribute of a perfect God because a perfect being would not feel irritation! It is a useless emotion!

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Originally Posted by Idolfan

So sending meteors down and mercilessly destroying two cities...
Commanding the slaughter of millions of women, children and animals...
Flooding the entire Earth to cause the genocide of billions of creatures...

That's all righteous judgement is it? Damn... and people wonder why I wouldn't let you near my kids if I were to have any.

Anger is NOT an attribute of a perfect God because a perfect being would not feel irritation! It is a useless emotion!

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Thank you Idolfan,

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Originally Posted by guitarboy

Facepalm.
I like how all of those quotes are from exodus.
the bible
and you're refuting theism. Or trying to.
And you use stupid people that practice a religion and do stupid things a stereotype for all of them.


There is no concrete evidence for this or anything you said.
I scoff.
I scoff.

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i said they were my theories... and The only two passages i wanted to share were those two, sorry they were wrote in Exodus, i would've still used them if they were in two seperate books or the new tes. The point i was making is that the Christian god commits that which he condems his children for (reflective of a human parent and hipocratic) and that almost every believer in this God disobey his orders blindly through their entire lives... even the pope's they all went to hell... lol if the religion is true and he is "God"... lol

Scoff all you want but i presented you with concrete evidence...

A great website that proves that God is a 'Farce' is right here:

http://www.evilbible.com/

I don't see how anyone could argue with the content of this website

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Originally Posted by Xei

No I haven't, which is a bit weird considering I'm an atheist, isn't it? I guess someone must have made a false assertion somewhere or something...

What did he say exactly?

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You must be like those blind faith christians who haven't even read the bible. For shame! I'm not going to teach you what your bible says. Look it up yourself!

And this is why we have war . . .

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Originally Posted by Lucidness

And this is why we have war . . .

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I feel like a third party arms dealer:eek:

The Bible which is the law of the Christian God is filled with more reasons to avoid the religion than to follow it... THAT IS IF YOU WILL SIT DOWN AND ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK ITSELF INSTEAD OF JUST GOING TO CHURCH AND LETTING THE PREACHER READ PARTS THAT MAKE IT SOUND ENTICING AND STUDYING WHAT HE TELLS YOU TO GO HOME AND STUDY, TAKE A LITTLE WHILE AND ACTUALLY READ THE ENTIRE BOOK. Although that's just a suggestion. But the thing i did was prove you wrong with your own material, not with my opinion or with reasons I hate it... Because i don't, i simply regard it as another fairytale sitting on my shelf beside some of C.S. Lewis literature and Tolkiens... I only have something against the fools of the religion that want preach a lesson they have ill prepared themselves for.

i feel like this thread might need to be deleted

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

I feel like a third party arms dealer:eek:

The Bible which is the law of the Christian God is filled with more reasons to avoid the religion than to follow it... THAT IS IF YOU WILL SIT DOWN AND ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK ITSELF INSTEAD OF JUST GOING TO CHURCH AND LETTING THE PREACHER READ PARTS THAT MAKE IT SOUND ENTICING AND STUDYING WHAT HE TELLS YOU TO GO HOME AND STUDY, TAKE A LITTLE WHILE AND ACTUALLY READ THE ENTIRE BOOK. Although that's just a suggestion. But the thing i did was prove you wrong with your own material, not with my opinion or with reasons I hate it... Because i don't, i simply regard it as another fairytale sitting on my shelf beside some of C.S. Lewis literature and Tolkiens... I only have something against the fools of the religion that want preach a lesson they have ill prepared themselves for.

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I've read through the bible. Some things I agree with, some things I translate differently then other.
Also, you have no concrete evidence.
I scoff.

I think about the same thing as he said in the orginal post. The bible really is just a guide to living a good life as a human. It isn't supposed to be taken so litarel. The bible is just a collection of stories people thought represented what being a good person was about. I doubt it was ever meant to be a law book, on what is or isn't allowed.

Anger isn't a useless emotion however, and a perfect god should get angry.

If your daughter is kidnapped and raped, then sold as a sex slave, it is pretty clear that by the bible standards it is not only perfectly acceptable to go out and kill her captors and free her, it is expected.

Sitting back and being mellow all the time is a sin. It is one of the seven deadly sins, sloth. When you see evil you are supposed to get mad. That is how humans are. People in the bible got mad, Jesus got mad, God got mad.

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Originally Posted by Alric

Anger isn't a useless emotion however, and a perfect god should get angry.

If your daughter is kidnapped and raped, then sold as a sex slave, it is pretty clear that by the bible standards it is not only perfectly acceptable to go out and kill her captors and free her, it is expected.

Sitting back and being mellow all the time is a sin. It is one of the seven deadly sins, sloth. When you see evil you are supposed to get mad. That is how humans are. People in the bible got mad, Jesus got mad, God got mad.

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I still don't get how 'anger' is an emotion useful to a perfect powerful being full of compassion, love and forgiveness.

Besides, God doesn't get mad at things like you said "If your daughter is kidnapped and raped, then sold as a sex slave, it is pretty clear that by the bible standards it is not only perfectly acceptable to go out and kill her captors and free her, it is expected." But he also killed an entire city because the king took a cencus. And also, Jesus got mad at a vine for not giving fruits because it wasn't the season. I think these are exagerated anger spazes that me, a human being, wouldn't even get mad at. Am I more perfect than God? That's impossible, so why does he get irritated at small things that are all his fault. He's plain mad at the fact that many people don't believe in him but that's 'cause he never proved himself true. If he came once in a while (I'm sure he hasn't much to do and a powerful being like God can definitly find time to visit his creations that he loves so much), well, if he came once in a while and proved himself true and chilled with us, than we all would believe in him and less people would go in the 'hell' he so 'justly' prepared for most of us, the ones he loves so much that he is jealous that they don't love him as much and prefer their partners, children, parents and friends.

Well that is the point. He is a god so he gets upset at the level a god does, not at the level of an average person. Obviously its a bit exagerated but in order to make a point. Again you can't take everything in the bible as literal. If you look at it as a collection of stories that is guiding you to be the best person you can be, everything makes a lot more sense. Than if you read it as a literal law book.

Obviously god isn't just about love and forgiveness. He is also a fair god. Which means when you sin and you reject him and you act evil, he isn't going to save you from hell. If you act like a souless monster, he isn't thinking. "Aww this man needs a second chance." He gets pissed off and he says f you. Like any person on earth would. You go to hell because you truely deserve it. If however you are sorry for what you done, and not just scared and trying to avoid the punishment, then he will be caring and will forgive you.

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Originally Posted by Alric

Well that is the point. He is a god so he gets upset at the level a god does, not at the level of an average person. Obviously its a bit exagerated but in order to make a point. Again you can't take everything in the bible as literal. If you look at it as a collection of stories that is guiding you to be the best person you can be, everything makes a lot more sense. Than if you read it as a literal law book.

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I can agree with this
except for the part where you say he gets upset at a God's level. A God should have more control of its emotions (self control) than humans unless he is less powerful than us because he doesn't have any power over Himself.
But again, you said we shouldn't take everything literal which it obviously not so he might not be such an angry person (according to this)

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Originally Posted by Alric

Obviously god isn't just about love and forgiveness. He is also a fair god. Which means when you sin and you reject him and you act evil, he isn't going to save you from hell. If you act like a souless monster, he isn't thinking. "Aww this man needs a second chance." He gets pissed off and he says f you. Like any person on earth would. You go to hell because you truely deserve it. If however you are sorry for what you done, and not just scared and trying to avoid the punishment, then he will be caring and will forgive you.

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Sorry, but Hell is not just. According to the bible, not having faith is the biggest sin. A perfect human that had never heard of God would go to Hell. That's too exagerated you think? Well someone who is agnostic (like me) but a relatively good person that doesn't do much wrong other than the things he/she sometimes do because he/she is not perfect will go to Hell.

Hell is a tourment of the most disgusting pains that lasts for ever and ever and never ends (NEVER ends) No one deserves that just for not believing in someting that makes less sense than ghosts. If he was just and forgiveful, he would have created reincarnation and made them reincarn again as a new person until they lived the right, just, loving and faithful life. And then he would have allowed the person in Heaven.

'Cause what your saying could be put this way:
A mother gets pregnant. Its a boy. She loves him a lot so she puts him on an island with EVERYTHING he needs and would desire. However, she never goes on the island. She also had send a man to the island before his birth to tell all the people on the island that she existed but many of them did not believe in her and said that there was no way she could exist. The little boy is adopted by a family and never hears of her mother until a certain mature age. Many people tell him she's real but lots more tell him she's not. He thinks that if she really existed and if she loved him so much she would have came and met him herself rather than doing all this strange scenario that he had never actually seen. So, he goes with his life and loves his parents (which adopted him but never admitted), siblings and friends. He tries his best to be a good person. His mom watches him from secret cameras. She realizes he doesn't believe in her. Her heart is broken because her creation doesn't believe in her and likes other people more than her. Then, she creates a torture room and waits for her boy to die from old age or whatever other cause. He then appears in the torture room. She hires red distorted creatures to torture her son for eternity. For the rest of eternity, the son will suffer and want to die but never die and it will be worst than anything else and then he might think of her mom and know she's real. He might think in his heart that he should of listened the people who preached her but he knows it wasn't very much his fault since his parents, the ones he trusted the most had told them it wasn't true and lots of other people did too. It had been a hard decision and the existance of such a mother was absurd so he hadn't believed. But now that she was torturing him so much he will hate her for ever just as he will suffer from ever. Since he hates her for being so unjust, he will never forgive her because he knows she's a hypocrite morbid creeper.

The mom was definitly not fair and she could have done so many fair other decisions to bring peace for her and her son.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

You must be like those blind faith christians who haven't even read the bible. For shame! I'm not going to teach you what your bible says. Look it up yourself!

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You often lose me in your sarcasm so I'm not really going to attempt to fathom out what your angle is here...

It is generally accepted, that a good person who has never heard of god, will not be punished for not believing in god. You can not reject god, if you do not know him. Now people who know all about god and are just confused and can not decide, is more of a grey area, depending on how strict you are, and who you ask.

That is a bad example though, since most people say that god doesn't send anyone to hell. That people wander into hell of their own acord by rejecting god's guidance.

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Originally Posted by Alric

It is generally accepted, that a good person who has never heard of god, will not be punished for not believing in god. You can not reject god, if you do not know him. Now people who know all about god and are just confused and can not decide, is more of a grey area, depending on how strict you are, and who you ask.

That is a bad example though, since most people say that god doesn't send anyone to hell. That people wander into hell of their own acord by rejecting god's guidance.

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So you're saying that when you die, you meet God and he asks you if you either reject him or want to love him and if you reject him you go to hell but you actually need to be sincere in your answer? Or something like that?

It is more like god is goodness. By being good and follow the path of good you accept god. By being bad and evil, indifferent, neutrel, uncaring, lazy or whatever you are rejecting god. Your saying being good is to much work, you don't want any part of it, and you just do whatever you want.

Even if you near heard of God before, people still know what is good. God finds a way to show them. So no one is condemned because they didn't know.

Would an agnostic that does good be damned? Since he/she doesn't reject the goodness of God, just the wish to believe in anything?

It depends on what you believe. People try to group Christianity as one big religion but there are actually many different belief systems in it. Which is why one church can be much different than another. Even if you are a Christian its entirely possible to think other Christians are totally wrong in what they believe.

Some people would probably say that the person doesn't have a real belief in being good if they don't embrace god, that it is just a wishy washy attempt to be good.

Though there are some who think a person can be good enough, that they can get into heaven based on their actions, even if they do not believe in god, because they are embracing god in their heart.

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

i feel like this thread might need to be deleted

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Best post all thread

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

So you're saying that when you die, you meet God and he asks you if you either reject him or want to love him and if you reject him you go to hell but you actually need to be sincere in your answer? Or something like that?

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Somewhere in heaven:

• God - "Love me or I send you to hell!"
• Man - [thought: Damn, this guy made hell and eternal torture and now he wants me to love him? I can't do that... He's gonna know I'm lying, but I have no choice but to try.] "I love you!"
• God - "Sorry, you're lying, hell for eternity...next!"

Yeah sounds like a real prototype of goodness. Any good person with the view of god presented by religions couldn't say he loves this God. I'm not saying that anybody in this thread or forum believes this exactly, but I know many do. Seriously. When will people realize that this stone age mentality does not compute in the 21. century. People telling me that my soul, which is determined by my brain, is going to "decide" (with free will!?) whether I'm going to heaven or hell. Might work for some poor deluded and indoctinated person, but anyone that can "do" basic logic can see how this is messed up.

/end rant.

The problem with that is hell is poorly referenced in the bible, most people do not believe god created hell, and he never threatens to send people to hell for not loving him.

I have run out of time for today, but tommrow or the day after I shall make an attempt to show you how your erroneous and insulting post is nothing more than an shallow and utterly useless argument.

Note: This is kind of screwed up, I don''t even belive in god and I have to sit here and argue on behalf of the christians... GET OUT THERE AND DEFEND YOUR FAITH!

Ok lucid boy, i look forward to it...

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Originally Posted by Bonsay

Somewhere in heaven:

• God - "Love me or I send you to hell!"
• Man - [thought: Damn, this guy made hell and eternal torture and now he wants me to love him? I can't do that... He's gonna know I'm lying, but I have no choice but to try.] "I love you!"
• God - "Sorry, you're lying, hell for eternity...next!"

Yeah sounds like a real prototype of goodness. Any good person with the view of god presented by religions couldn't say he loves this God. I'm not saying that anybody in this thread or forum believes this exactly, but I know many do. Seriously. When will people realize that this stone age mentality does not compute in the 21. century. People telling me that my soul, which is determined by my brain, is going to "decide" (with free will!?) whether I'm going to heaven or hell. Might work for some poor deluded and indoctinated person, but anyone that can "do" basic logic can see how this is messed up.

/end rant.

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OMG laughing my butt off!!....

Congratulations, you took 2 passages from an entire book and undoubtedly proved that it is false. It is obvious that you realized the objectionable nature of the Bible and were able to decipher its hidden meaning, Bravo. Hell, those three theories at the end might as well be laws.

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Congratulations, you took 2 passages from an entire book and undoubtedly proved that it is false. It is obvious that you realized the objectionable nature of the Bible and were able to decipher its hidden meaning, Bravo. Hell, those three theories at the end might as well be laws.

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http://www.cortinaproductions.com/images/emmypic.jpg

and the award for best sarcastic post goes too..... lol jk

Also the first theory actually has a "Law" in it, we change reality just by observing reality

If only golden globes could be won with sarcasm :]

lol

!Warning! Don't look if you love jesus lol LMAO i mean this to be in no way offensive lol but found it and thought it suited this thread...

Removed by Poster

sorry. i was afraid it would offend someone http://pathstoknowledge.files.wordpr...09/04/thor.jpg but here's the link to it!

people post stuff like that all the time. the only thing that isn't allowed is like...porn and stuff. pretty much.

yeah, i just try to be respectful of others beliefs.... even if i don't share in them

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

yeah, i just try to be respectful of others beliefs.... even if i don't share in them

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So do you believe in God or any God(s)?

I believe that we are all concetrated forms of energy flowing together in a stream of energy that is the universe. Qauntum physics have proved that we alter reality just by observing it, so i feel like our minds all work together on a larger scale to shape what we call reality. I do not believe in a divine creator or a supernatural "supervisor"... I don't believe in conventional death, i believe in termination of processess in this form, this organic matter and an end to this particular awareness and memory but that the spark that is our conscious returns to the universal mind with the experience and growth spiritually we gain threw our lives and adds to the growth of the universal mind. That's why some of us can "remember past lives", we essentially have those experiences in us, from others that have before. I believe everything flows in an endless cycle... and that during our life's we can choose to cause pain and suffering make it a horrible existance for the rest of the human race and deprive others of bonds that help our knowledge and relationships grow positively or we can resonate love and reflect caring and understanding and remove the obstacles that help us bond a move forward as a race of unlimitted possblities and abilities... I have came to this belief threw years of inner reflection and a slow and steady journey to enlightenment that i am still traveling on... it's not a religion, religions seperate us into groups and factions, As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up reasons to kill one another. Why do you think we invented politics and religion? I do not pick sides yet oppose those who do and try to indoctrinate me into it.... i have an open mind but no religion or way of bettering one's self should not condone war, or genocide, or any murder unless it is for the defense of others than are truely unable to defend themselves.

"I am you are we and they are me" -MementoMori

funny thing is if you met me and never spoke to me you'd never think i think how i think, you would take as another person. I don't preach, because so many oppose but if someone comes to me and says what do you thin i'll share some of my insight... Basically i believe we are in this together and should help rather than hender.

Saying you were an Atheist would've suffice. All I wanted to know.

I'm not Atheist, Atheism is the Religion of hating Gods and their followers... I actually said i do believe in "God" but it's not the cut out figure of a being playing judge jury and executioner... I believe "God" is everything, that it is energy, it is the flow of energy. I believe "God" is the computer i'm typing on and the chair i'm sitting in. I believe i, you, and everyone else are "Gods" because we shape reality just by observing it. We're a part of the flow of the energy, our bodies, our molecules, every part of us is a part of everything else and the universe and all it's contents are "God". I will state again, I am NOT an Atheist.

Edit: but i do not mean "God" as the conventional world thinks of "God", but simply what he stands for

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

I'm not Atheist, Atheism is the Religion of hating Gods and their followers...

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That's not the same defintion you're going to get form the majority of Atheist here. Atheism is "the lack of belief" In any Divine Creator/Deity. Do you have a lack of belief regarding any Divine Creator of this Universe?

I know what the definition is, i understand alot of them are not like that but alot are also, and i apologize for stereotyping all the Atheists in this forum community (sencerely, in all honesty). I do not believe in a single, cut from the cookie dough form that represents the creation of everything... my view on "God" is diferrent than most of the rest of the world. I do not believe in a being sitting on a throne in heaven no.

Sorry I asked the wrong question. I meant to ask, Do you believe in the supernatural or any supernatural beings that plays a significant role in this universe be it govern or regulates our reality? Do you believe in the unseen that science cannot explain? It doesn't have to be a creator but something more divine than you or I?

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Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

Do you believe in the unseen that science cannot explain?

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Sometimes science cannot explains things simply because they aren't there, there somewhere else beyond where scientists can go but if scientists could go wherever these things are, they could prove them true. Just felt like saying that.

Of course the supernatural is real. There are pictures!

http://z.about.com/d/paranormal/1/0/...ck_ghost25.jpg

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Sometimes science cannot explains things simply because they aren't there, there somewhere else beyond where scientists can go but if scientists could go wherever these things are, they could prove them true. Just felt like saying that.

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What I'm referring to is Supernatural phenomenon that cannot be explained by Science. Science only deals with naturalistic events governed by natural law or natural phenomenon. When I say the unseen as I applied it with the Supernatural which I'm referring to things an events that Science could never explain which are things 'unseen' by Science.

i do not believe in ghosts, i do believe in certain unexplained phenomenon, but no not a supernatural being that controls or regulates this reality, i believe our awareness and physical choices do that.

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Of course the supernatural is real. There are pictures!

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Unrefutable evidence Watson, case closed lol

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

i do not believe in ghosts, i do believe in certain unexplained phenomenon, but no not a supernatural being that controls or regulates this reality, i believe our awareness and physical choices do that.
Unrefutable evidence Watson, case closed lol

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So what exactly makes your non-beliefs any different than any other Atheist?

If I'm right, christians don't believe they go to hell because they sinned, but rather because they didn't accept Jesus. So your point is... moot I suppose.

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Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

So what exactly makes your non-beliefs any different than any other Atheist?

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it's not my non-beliefs, it's my belief in energy as "God"

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

it's not my non-beliefs, it's my belief in energy as "God"

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In this instance what is your definition of "God"?

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Originally Posted by Alric

Obviously god isn't just about love and forgiveness. He is also a fair god. Which means when you sin and you reject him and you act evil, he isn't going to save you from hell. If you act like a souless monster, he isn't thinking. "Aww this man needs a second chance." He gets pissed off and he says f you. Like any person on earth would. You go to hell because you truely deserve it. If however you are sorry for what you done, and not just scared and trying to avoid the punishment, then he will be caring and will forgive you.

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I disagree that gods heaven and hell system, as described in the bible is even in the least bit fair.

The thing is, the entirety of one's actions, thoughts, personality, and emotions are exclusively a product of the way someone was born, and the outside world's effect on that person. You were born a certain way, placed into a certain situation, and that is what made you the way you are today. How you reacted to your very first experience with the external world is based entirely on how your nature has been designed to react to it, and in future experiences, you react based entirely on how your nature has been effected by past experiences. I hope you see what I'm getting at here...


So, when you stop to think about it, does ANYONE have control over how they were born? Does ANYONE have control over whatever situation they were born into? Because nobody has control over either of those things, nobody truly has actual control over any of their actions. Really, control is just an illusion (though it is a very, very necessary illusion).

Because of this, it would be irrational to even assert that anyone deserves anything, at least if you regard the word deserving as its most commonly percieved definition.

I'm not trying to assert that people should not be rewarded or punished, for seeking reward or fearing punishment are indeed two effective ways to get people to do good (or evil, for that matter). Reward and punishment are two things in the external world that do effectively change ones personality, and if they are to simply be abandoned because nobody actually deserves anything, then that would be disastrous. Still, it's good to keep in mind that reward and punishment should be regarded as drives, or things to increase ones self esteem, or cause one to rethink their actions, or perhaps prevent one from having an urge to do an action in the first place. But really, when it all comes down to it, "deserving" anything is just an illusion.


Now, back to the point :P. So now, if you look at what the bible says about what god is responsible for, you may notice that the bible would claim that god is both responsible for how you were born, and also responsible for what situation you were placed in. Because those things (the things that control everything you do and everything you are) were entirely in god's control, then realistically every last thing you do and every last thing you are is entirely gods fault. Having god send you to hell because you went against him is completely unreasonable on his part, because he caused you to go against him, while having full knowledge of it. It would be anything but fair to punish someone for something that you yourself are completely responsible for, would you not agree?


So really, the entire christian concept of heaven and hell is absolutely ridiculous. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying that, but when you truly look at it in a logical and thorough manner, it is quite simply a philosophical disaster.


Edit: I'm agnostic, if anyone wants to know.

"God" is the Sum Total of Universal Energy



Many people debate about whether there is a God, or what God is. Is God an individual personality, sitting up in heaven listening to and granting our requests, or is God simply all the energy that exists in the whole universe? Well, I believe God is the second option here.

The Bible says God is a spirit (John 4:24). It also says that the spirit, given by God, is what gives man understanding (Job 32:8). And finally, it says that God is light (I John 1:5).

It is important to understand that ancient man described God with an ancient vocabulary and ancient idea sets, but that we can breathe new life into these verses by understanding what was really being said.

What is light? It's energy. When a person is brain dead, no electrical activity registers on a EEG test. Why? Because his spirit, which is what brings life to the body and understanding to the mind, is electrical energy. And when the spirit leaves the body, the body dies because the energy which powered the body is no longer present. God is light, so he is energy, and both God and we are spirit beings. So God, and light, and energy, and the essence of each of us as spirit beings, is all the same. We are all made up of the same physical and spiritual essence: energy.

Everything that exists in the universe is made up of energy. Every atom has electrons, sub-atomic particles containing an electrical charge, which orbit around the atom's nucleus. Every atom has energy. True, some atoms have more energy than others; some have more electrons orbiting their nucleus than others, and some are moving faster than others. The energy in a piece of wood is moving very slow compared to the energy in a pan of boiling water, but both contain the same kind of energy.

There is a scientific law that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply changes form (conservation of energy). To be more precise, it states that in a closed system (our universe, for the purposes of our discussion) energy is conserved. In other words, all the energy that ever existed, that was present at the beginning, still exists. God, who is all energy, in the beginning took from his own energy to make everything that exists. Biblical scholars have made much of the original language of Genesis 1:1 saying that the word "created" means "ex nihilo" or "out of nothing". In other words, God made everything from nothing. We must understand that biblical writers used their own limited vocabulary and knowledge of science to explain what they thought they saw or were told. The fact that the universe may have "appeared" out of nowhere does not mean it was created from nothing. Many forms of energy cannot be seen. Since God is energy, and we know that everything that exists is made from energy, and keeping in mind that energy cannot be created or destroyed, we see that God took from the pool of existing energy, which was HIM, and created everything there is. Therefore, not only are the atoms and molecules and sub-atomic particles in a blade of grass made by God, they are part of God himself. God took of his energy, and changed the appearance of some of it so that it looks different. But it is still a part of him, just as our hearts and livers are part of us. So every blade of grass, every raindrop, every animal, every human being, every biological microorganism, every molecule of wood that forms the chair you are sitting on is GOD. Not just part of God, but IS God. Everything is sacred, because everything is made from the energy that is God. This takes away the dividing line between secular and sacred.

How can I say that? You might be thinking that to say everything is PART of God is understandable, but to say that everything IS GOD....how can that be? Because scientists have discovered that every particle of matter and energy that exists resonates on a particular frequency, and that every single particle is connected to and responds to every other particle through these frequencies. Everything is connected, part of the same whole and part of the same connected communication system.

Let's put it in more concrete terms. A cell, or molecule, or atom on one side of the world, say in the United States, can communicate with any other cell, molecule or atom on the other side of the world, say in China, because they are able to signal each other with oscillating frequencies, and this communication happens non-locally and virtually instantaneously. It's like what happens with a radio. There are lots of frequencies out there with people talking on them, or music playing, and all you have to do is tune the dial of the radio to different frequencies to pick them up. Then if you have a transmitter you can talk back to them. That is what our atoms, molecules and cells do. They tune into whatever frequency they have to in order to communicate with other cells all over the world or the universe, in order to accomplish whatever goal they need to accomplish.

Now, people can usually accept the idea that the cells, molecules and atoms in their BODIES communicate with each other so that the body can function the way it's supposed to. The body is a closed system, just like the universe. Just as all the particles in your body communicate so the body can function efficiently, all the particles in the universe do the same. They are all connected. Like one huge body. God's body.

Basically, all energy is God, and there is no such thing as someone being "separated from God". God cannot be separated from his own body.....everything is connected, and within our ability to influence the outcome. We also can change the course of events by altering the oscillating frequencies which make communications within this system possible, through our thoughts, beliefs, and feelings.

How can we say everything is part of God, and in fact IS God? Because every molecule, atom and particle that exists is connected by this energetic framework of oscillating frequencies which makes communication between each part possible. All molecules, cells, atoms and particles are connected to each other at every moment, and influence each others' activities. It's one big system designed to work together. My brain can communicate with yours, and your brain can communicate with your cat's; my brain can communicate with the cells of my body so they are led to heal themselves, and your brain can help direct healing energy to the bodies of other people who need healing. God uses this same energetic system to communicate to our brains, to our cells, to the raindrops which make up a thunderstorm, to anything.

It's the reason why the stars and planets and their electromagnetic fields DO influence our thoughts, feelings and behavior, and psychic ability does in fact exist; that's what it's talking about in the Bible when it speaks of spiritual gifts like the gift of Prophecy, or Wisdom, or Knowledge. And the gifts of Healing or Miracles are simply examples of the ability to manipulate this energetic framework of oscillating frequencies so that you can direct it to do what you want. And the spirits of the dead, which are simply the sum total of that person's energetic essence, do exist in another dimensions and can communicate with us, and we with them, if we learn how to tune the dial to their frequency. This puts everything supernatural finally and very definitely in the natural, physical realm. Everything we thought was miraculous and not humanly possible IS possible. And people we used to denounce as witches are simply those who long ago learned to manipulate this energetic framework of oscillating frequencies. They learned to direct their energies through incantations and rituals. Christians learned to direct their energies through prayer (which is a prolonged type of meditation). Some people learned to direct their energies through meditations and visualizations. It's all a manipulaton of the same power grid. One way of manipulating it is not better than another. Prayer is not better than an incantation. Both work only because the user directs his focus and energy toward a particular end. And God has set the power grid up so that when we direct our energy, our thoughts and beliefs, our feelings, toward a particular end, it happens.

Whatever technique we use to direct this energy, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that we learn the power of our thoughts, feelings and beliefs. God is Love because love is the most powerful tool at our disposal to redirect this energy. When Love is the reason we direct our energy through our thoughts toward a particular goal, that is the most powerful energy there is, and that goal will come to fruition.

Okay so in short, in your eyes God is the personification of energy and you put some kind of Supreme value on energy, is this correct?

Yes

So help me understand something. You used the following verses to draw reference to your definition of what the word God means to you.

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

The Bible says God is a spirit (John 4:24). It also says that the spirit, given by God, is what gives man understanding (Job 32:8). And finally, it says that God is light (I John 1:5).

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Why would you use those verses in the Scriptures to incorporate your definition of God but omit these?

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Originally Posted by Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

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Originally Posted by Revelations 1:8

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

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Originally Posted by Exodus 6:3

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

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Why the verses that draws reference to personality characteristics of God you have not included?

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

It is important to understand that ancient man described God with an ancient vocabulary and ancient idea sets, but that we can breathe new life into these verses by understanding what was really being said.

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Doesn't the Scriptures not make it pretty clear that God has a distinct personality?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

There is a scientific law that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply changes form (conservation of energy). To be more precise, it states that in a closed system (our universe, for the purposes of our discussion) energy is conserved. In other words, all the energy that ever existed, that was present at the beginning, still exists. God, who is all energy, in the beginning took from his own energy to make everything that exists. Biblical scholars have made much of the original language of Genesis 1:1 saying that the word "created" means "ex nihilo" or "out of nothing". In other words, God made everything from nothing. We must understand that biblical writers used their own limited vocabulary and knowledge of science to explain what they thought they saw or were told. The fact that the universe may have "appeared" out of nowhere does not mean it was created from nothing. Many forms of energy cannot be seen. Since God is energy, and we know that everything that exists is made from energy, and keeping in mind that energy cannot be created or destroyed, we see that God took from the pool of existing energy, which was HIM, and created everything there is. Therefore, not only are the atoms and molecules and sub-atomic particles in a blade of grass made by God, they are part of God himself. God took of his energy, and changed the appearance of some of it so that it looks different. But it is still a part of him, just as our hearts and livers are part of us. So every blade of grass, every raindrop, every animal, every human being, every biological microorganism, every molecule of wood that forms the chair you are sitting on is GOD. Not just part of God, but IS God. Everything is sacred, because everything is made from the energy that is God. This takes away the dividing line between secular and sacred.

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These parts in bold. Does this not give examples of a personality trait or examples of 'willed' powers? If you say God as 'done' something, you are giving him conscious attributes and traits. If God has given energy from himself does this not show and indication of a conscious decision? Or the will to make things happen by conscious direction?

I do understand where you're getting at but this is how I see it. You and I scientifically are made up of the same substance. We share certain biological and molecular qualities that are of the same substance. But although we share these things you and I are not one in the same. We just share the same background.

Don't take this the wrong way, but what's really funny about this is the fact that you've crated this thread titled "Proof that Christianity is Farce" But you draw reference from a Christian Bible to incorporate certain qualities of what your definition of God is. Doesn't that seem a bit weird to you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

The Bible says God is a spirit (John 4:24). It also says that the spirit, given by God, is what gives man understanding (Job 32:8). And finally, it says that God is light (I John 1:5).

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Now just take a look at this for a moment. Think about it. Why would you draw reference from these verses if you do not believe in them? :wtf:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

Don't take this the wrong way, but what's really funny about this is the fact that you've crated this thread titled "Proof that Christianity is Farce" But you draw reference from a Christian Bible to incorporate certain qualities of what your definition of God is. Doesn't that seem a bit weird to you?

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Thank God we agree on something finally!

I don't know what this thread has turned into now but to claim that a few contradictions disproves a whole belief system is pathetic.

Basically i bel;ieve god is the universal mind, Also i meant to post this earlier, I did miss state the title of this thread, when i wrote it i didn't have a good title for it so just ran with that one, then realized a little later that i couldn't change it. I meant to present those passages to show that most of the followers of this religion have lost the true meaning of the religiong and do not study it thoroughly. I apologize i posted and didn't proof read and for that i mistaked my purpose and spoke foolishly. I take the bible as a teaching as a Zen master would teach. Wisdom and Knowledge passed down from generations. I do not believe Seerving god in the way Christians do, i believe the idea of serving god was that you're supposed to reflect what god represents, which is love and compassion... Again i apologize for the arrogant titeling which brought others into the conversation with a mislead idea of what i was trying to present.

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I don't know what this thread has turned into now but to claim that a few contradictions disproves a whole belief system is pathetic.

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I didn't mean to present the idea that it disproves the Christian beliefe system, i meant it as a Very Large amount of the followers of the religion do not know one of the most important points made in the entire scripture that holds the teachings of that religion. Which is that to have true faith in that God according to that god you should not have any material object which is a virtual representation of him or his son, but to just have faith alone, not a "star" to wear around your kneck, or a "cross" to hang on your wall, or a "fish" to put on your cars bumper.... The pictures hung in churches and the stained glass windows and the statues are all Idols...

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

Basically i bel;ieve god is the universal mind, Also i meant to post this earlier, I did miss state the title of this thread, when i wrote it i didn't have a good title for it so just ran with that one, then realized a little later that i couldn't change it. I meant to present those passages to show that most of the followers of this religion have lost the true meaning of the religiong and do not study it thoroughly. I apologize i posted and didn't proof read and for that i mistaked my purpose and spoke foolishly. I take the bible as a teaching as a Zen master would teach. Wisdom and Knowledge passed down from generations. I do not believe Seerving god in the way Christians do, i believe the idea of serving god was that you're supposed to reflect what god represents, which is love and compassion... Again i apologize for the arrogant titeling which brought others into the conversation with a mislead idea of what i was trying to present.

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Point taken and thanks for clearing that up. :goodjob2: I'll end it with this, it takes a big man to admit his mistakes, something that most of us including myself are not always able to admit. I have much respect for you based off this post here. May your days be long and prosperous. Nice conversation also btw. :) See you around.

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Originally Posted by MementoMori

Basically i bel;ieve god is the universal mind

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My man!!! :cheers:

lol

this thread is actually disappointing:whyme:

When I first read Proof that Christianity is a Farce, I thought you meant farce as in a sham. As in proof that Christianity isn't the religion it claims to be. Or that you had evidence that it was purposely created by a group of outside individuals for some evil doing purpose. Or proof that the bible is fake because it was created by such and such person for such and such purpose, which means it could not have been divinely inspired by God - as far as the authors believed it was

Instead, you only make points why you think the bible is dumb - or why you think Christians are hypocrites because they don't pay attention to some verses in the bible

That's nothing new in this forum! And it still isn't proof that the Christian religion isn't what it claims to be. It still isn't proof that who ever wrote the bible didn't genuinely believe in what they were writing.

I'll help you out here. The Gospels are supposed to be more or less first hand or second hand accounts of Jesus life and works. Now imagine four people were running around with Jesus, witnessing his miracles, and also having their own personal experiences with Jesus.

And even though these four people would all be with Jesus, their experience of Jesus would be different. Why???

Just think of yourself and who ever it is you live with. You may share a room, or a kitchen or a living room with these people. Maybe you eat with them. Maybe you play video games with them. Maybe you watch TV with them......but if each of you were to keep a diary - they would all read entirely differently. Because no two people perceive reality exactly the same even if they are sharing it.

For the four gospels to be different eye witness accounts of Jesus time and life - we would and should have four different accounts

The truth is...we dont!!! We only have ONE story that is actually different. The other three sound like copies or editions of it. Entire paragraphs are the same!! Who writes identically??? No one, that's how we know they were COPIED

Now this one that is different is very important, because in it Jesus says a prayer that was left out in the other three. This prayer, if you really understand it, is important because it suggest there is more to Jesus than the bible lets on




Are there no other accounts of Jesus except this one? ?




Actually, there are. And one of them is supposedly written by Mary Magdalene herself. You won't find this in the bible. And most churches will make you feel it blasphemy to read her account of Jesus story. Because her understanding of Jesus life and mission is very different from what church teaches




But that's exactly why its so important!!




Because if Jesus was a real man who lived, a real man who spoke and taught people things - then we would expect there to be various accounts of what he spoke. And since no one experiences reality exactly the same, we would expect these accounts to have DIFFERENCES. We should even expect for people to understand his teachings differently.

And they do have differences. We can even see the difference in their sentence structure, how they form their paragraphs, to what information they thought was more important, to how they present the information.

What's the point? The point is these OTHER accounts of Jesus life and work were purposefully left out of the bible. Because they show a Jesus that treats woman as equal to men. Because they show a Jesus who believes that he is just as much as God as you are. Because they show a Jesus who set up a spiritual practice............not a religion.

These other accounts of Jesus life and work were such a threat to the Catholic Church when it was forming, the christians who kept them were deemed heretics, they were murdered, and their holy texts were burned. Only a few remain today because they were sucessfully hidden.

This was how the Catholic Church was founded, it was founded on blood. And it was founded on destroying and silencing other accounts of Jesus that do not support a strong centralized church

This is evidence that the bible is a farce
1. because it has been manipulated to leave out certain texts that should have been a part of it

And evidence that the Catholic Church is a farce
2. because they always knew about this other Jesus, they always knew about the other Gospels - and they have feined ignorance this entire time

If this thread were broadcast on fox news the whole world would change

Thank you juroara, i know i mis-titled this thread, it wasn't intended to blab about what i think about it or about god, i meant it to show that today's current "Christian" religion is a farce of what it was meant to be, and yes i do believe that the book has been manipulated by Kings, churches, and others to reach certain monetary and authoritative goals. I agree with your post 100%, but i believe some of the lessons taught within it are beneficial as long as you don't take them to the extreme. And in a way i brought up one of the biggest controversies i see that does actually show the religion is a farce and that was where i pointed out that the god in the religion he himself sins, Jealousy is a sin, i don't believe a christian can write it off as saying it's a jealousy of something that is his or a different type of jealousy... when you are jealous you are wanting something you do not have, when the teachings are to be happy with what you are given. I think a god should lead by example and NEVER gets to do anything wrong or impure in the very minuscule sense at all... Again, a God: Perfect being/ would have NO impure feelings at all. He asks that we always forgive but yet he cannot? I personally believe that these books were teachings in a different time with different ways of seeing the world, and now we should truly look at god with a new way of thinking and understanding, or at least not persecute and rant towards those who do. The ideology in the book is of ancient beliefs and superstitions, Look at baptism, where you dunk someone in water to "cleanse" them or represent cleansing them, why can't the cleansing be done mentally, you're telling me that that any water from around the world can reach into your soul? I got caught up in defending my own definition of god in this thread that i never was able to explain what i meant to explain in this thread, and for any Christians that plan on rebuttal this, I'm not saying throw you guys and your book in the fire and move on, or that you are dumb people, or anything like that. I meant this thread as a way for a Christian and Non Christian to read the verses i posted and see that the religion you are partaking in has long overlooked some important things in your book. Show me a verse in the bible where God/Jesus said not to worship Idols of any other God(s) other than them and i'll shut up, or show me a verse that says your God can sin but you cannot, if you can find those in that book then i have no case, but if not, then maybe you should step back from yourself and read the Entire Bible and take it in verse for verse. Again only a suggestion, if you are happy where you're at in your life and religious beliefs and don't want to, then by all means continue to be happy but don't try to indoctrinate someone else untill you know what your book actually says. and just as juroara stated, Jesus did not want there to be a religion created out of his teachings or his fathers commandments, he wanted the followers to have a certain way of life, not a second "job" as it is made out to be... really just sit down and read the entire book, you see what i'm talking about or you wont. but i'm in no way trying to attack any christian , i actually shouldn't even matter to you Christians because i have committed the unforgivable sin that says i'm going to hell NO MATTER WHAT, i have already spoken many a time that i do not believe in the christian god, so if i'm un-able to be saved then why preach to me?

@grasshopa: yep, if people would just open there eyes just a little wider, and read the contents of that book... there would be either a very big change in the world or the Christians would attack the shit outta me lol... i personally have more faith in number two

It's nothing christians haven't heard before. And if they haven't they'd find a way to dismiss it. I was joking.

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Originally Posted by juroara

I'll help you out here. The Gospels are supposed to be more or less first hand or second hand accounts of Jesus life and works. Now imagine four people were running around with Jesus, witnessing his miracles, and also having their own personal experiences with Jesus.

And even though these four people would all be with Jesus, their experience of Jesus would be different. Why???

Just think of yourself and who ever it is you live with. You may share a room, or a kitchen or a living room with these people. Maybe you eat with them. Maybe you play video games with them. Maybe you watch TV with them......but if each of you were to keep a diary - they would all read entirely differently. Because no two people perceive reality exactly the same even if they are sharing it.

For the four gospels to be different eye witness accounts of Jesus time and life - we would and should have four different accounts

The truth is...we dont!!! We only have ONE story that is actually different. The other three sound like copies or editions of it. Entire paragraphs are the same!! Who writes identically??? No one, that's how we know they were COPIED

Now this one that is different is very important, because in it Jesus says a prayer that was left out in the other three. This prayer, if you really understand it, is important because it suggest there is more to Jesus than the bible lets on




Are there no other accounts of Jesus except this one? ?




Actually, there are. And one of them is supposedly written by Mary Magdalene herself. You won't find this in the bible. And most churches will make you feel it blasphemy to read her account of Jesus story. Because her understanding of Jesus life and mission is very different from what church teaches




But that's exactly why its so important!!




Because if Jesus was a real man who lived, a real man who spoke and taught people things - then we would expect there to be various accounts of what he spoke. And since no one experiences reality exactly the same, we would expect these accounts to have DIFFERENCES. We should even expect for people to understand his teachings differently.

And they do have differences. We can even see the difference in their sentence structure, how they form their paragraphs, to what information they thought was more important, to how they present the information.

What's the point? The point is these OTHER accounts of Jesus life and work were purposefully left out of the bible. Because they show a Jesus that treats woman as equal to men. Because they show a Jesus who believes that he is just as much as God as you are. Because they show a Jesus who set up a spiritual practice............not a religion.

These other accounts of Jesus life and work were such a threat to the Catholic Church when it was forming, the christians who kept them were deemed heretics, they were murdered, and their holy texts were burned. Only a few remain today because they were sucessfully hidden.

This was how the Catholic Church was founded, it was founded on blood. And it was founded on destroying and silencing other accounts of Jesus that do not support a strong centralized church

This is evidence that the bible is a farce
1. because it has been manipulated to leave out certain texts that should have been a part of it

And evidence that the Catholic Church is a farce
2. because they always knew about this other Jesus, they always knew about the other Gospels - and they have feined ignorance this entire time

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What you say is full of truth! That is quite exciting to hear in this forum where Athiests and the Religious continue to miss big picture elements : /, or THE BIG PICTURE if you wish. Thank you for lifting my spirits : ).

One more thing to add. This is just a theory can't really claim to teach or know this yet.

I think of God as universal spirit also, though there I believe this spirit may manifest itself in personal ways, the "personal god" if you will. Meditate on this--

Think of an ant colony. The ant colony constructs a masterwork lair of caverns, passages and chambers underground. This entire structure is massive in some colonies and intricately designed, seemingly designed by one coherent mind--yet each ant in the colony is merely fulfilling its own duty, unaware of the final mastermind creation.

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Originally Posted by sephiroth clock

I think of God as universal spirit also, though there I believe this spirit may manifest itself in personal ways, the "personal god" if you will. Meditate on this--

Think of an ant colony. The ant colony constructs a masterwork lair of caverns, passages and chambers underground. This entire structure is massive in some colonies and intricately designed, seemingly designed by one coherent mind--yet each ant in the colony is merely fulfilling its own duty, unaware of the final mastermind creation.

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nice, very nice

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Originally Posted by grasshoppa

If this thread were broadcast on fox news the whole world would change

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Whole world = America.

K.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Whole world = America.

K.

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What? America is the superpower... what happens there affects everywhere else. Especially if simultaneously everyone figured out they were being lied too. I think we'd see some big changes around the world, don't you?

That's the thing though... you can't change someone who has devoute faith because they choose not to hear you or acknowledge you, or they take your attempts at revealing a truth to them as an attack on them personally and fight back refusing anything you say because for them it is personal... Faith is second strongest only to willpower

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Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

What? America is the superpower... what happens there affects everywhere else. Especially if simultaneously everyone figured out they were being lied too. I think we'd see some big changes around the world, don't you?

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Cuz the religious beliefs of Americans play a vital part in my day to day life.

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Originally Posted by juroara

this thread is actually disappointing:whyme:

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Yeait's a crock o shit and that's coming from me

Disprove the God of the Old Testament?

So what, Christ taught against the Jews only covenent. He was raving mad about it and told parables like the good samaritan and lazarus+rich man? God's extending his covenent? Blah! He don't no respector of persons. He could have turned up in India and we'd all be Hindus?

Jesus can always be seen in a different light. The 'Messiah Saviour for our sins' one is not the only one. Sure, you may have disporved many interpretations of it, but in the end most current believers, and maybe even more could end up worshing Christ under less dogmatic assumptions. Is that going against their holy book? They might not believe the bible is perfect. So what?

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Originally Posted by Xei

Cuz the religious beliefs of Americans play a vital part in my day to day life.

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No they don't. Stop playing yourself.

Er what?

Yeah, exactly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xei

Cuz the religious beliefs of Americans play a vital part in my day to day life.

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Let's think this through.

150 million Americans (approximately) claim to be Christian. 150 million Americans realize they've been lied to ever since they've been children so a handful of men can benefit from their conformity.

I think it's a fairly agreeable thing to say if this religious indoctrination went away, scientific curiosity would go up. Average IQ of the superpower of the world would go up. Average amount of scientists would go up. More technology being created, more people realizing their connection with nature, less religious hatred, less war.....

I would say religious belief of the American masses do affect you. At least indirectly. Is it total absurdity to say this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

Let's think this through.

150 million Americans (approximately) claim to be Christian. 150 million Americans realize they've been lied to ever since they've been children so a handful of men can benefit from their conformity.

I think it's a fairly agreeable thing to say if this religious indoctrination went away, scientific curiosity would go up. Average IQ of the superpower of the world would go up. Average amount of scientists would go up. More technology being created, more people realizing their connection with nature, less religious hatred, less war.....

I would say religious belief of the American masses do affect you. At least indirectly. Is it total absurdity to say this?

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Very well put.

MementoMori...

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2)"Thou shalt not
make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any
thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth
beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth"-Exodus 20:4

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Maybe you should have added the rest of the verses



<< Exodus 20 >>
King James Bible

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.


You say you have no religion, you are not athiest or religious because in your eyes atheist is a type of religion... If this is the case and you are secure with your beliefs then why bother trying to prove Christanity is fake?

When someone comes around trying as hard as they can to prove something is wrong, that shows that they do not have much security in what they believe.

I tell ya, it makes me laugh.

I simply added my chime to a the debate.... again i apologize because the webpage allows for no inflection and things are often not what they seem..

@davej: I can look the christian religion populous in the eyes if i had to and admitt i am secure in my believes, even if they wanted to begin the witch trials all over again. I my friend am most secure in my beliefs. Have a wonderful holiday!

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davej: I can look the christian religion populous in the eyes if i had to and admitt i am secure in my believes, even if they wanted to begin the witch trials all over again. I my friend am most secure in my beliefs. Have a wonderful holiday!

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If you are so secure then why go to the trouble of making a thread like this.

Because i too still like to express my opinion and share a little of what i know sometimes...
I may be on a journey of enlightenment but i'm not so wise i always remember that some arguments are better left to the ones who care for the points in the argument....

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Originally Posted by davej

If you are so secure then why go to the trouble of making a thread like this.

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Dave, I see you asking that type of question a lot here. The answer is that the topics of religion and the nature of reality are fascinating and the Christian mentality is fascinating. We want to understand it more, learn more, have interesting discussions, and have fun with the competitive exercise of debating. That's the answer.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Dave, I see you asking that type of question a lot here. The answer is that the topics of religion and the nature of reality are fascinating and the Christian mentality is fascinating. We want to understand it more, learn more, have interesting discussions, and have fun with the competitive exercise of debating. That's the answer.

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what UM said