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    Thread: Blasphemy becomes illegal in Ireland

    1. #1
      Member SkA_DaRk_Che's Avatar
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      Blasphemy becomes illegal in Ireland

      The Defamation Bill, which also introduces a new crime of blasphemous libel, will come into operation after it is passed by the Seanad later this week and signed into law by President Mary McAleese.

      The legislation, which the media industry broadly supports, also aims to ensure that the recently established Press Council operates as efficiently as possible.

      It also enables newspapers to offer an apology without risking an admission of liability, and to defend libel actions by arguing that a story was in the public interest.
      Under the changes, the maximum fine for blasphemy will be cut from €100,000 to €25,000.
      http://www.independent.ie/national-n...l-1813479.html

      Meanwhile, Islamic nations are campaigning for an international blasphemy ban.They want Islam and other religions to be above criticism, effectively making any negative portrayal of Islam or their prophet illegal.

      So, conceivably pointing out the questionable behaviors of Muhammad or the homicidal, genocidal, misogynistic texts found in Christianity as well, would become illegal.

      Ireland has already approved such a law.


      GENEVA - Four years after cartoons of the prophet Muhammad set off violent protests across the Muslim world, Islamic nations are mounting a campaign for an international treaty to protect religious symbols and beliefs from mockery — essentially a ban on blasphemy that would put them on a collision course with free speech laws in the West.
      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34048355

      What do you guys think? Should religious ideologies be above scrutiny and be protected from criticism by effectively limiting free speech?
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    2. #2
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      No! What makes religion such a protected jewel of thought that it should be immune from any criticism? It's not like any of it is true, anyway...Whoops! Fine me!

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      The fucking irish...
      Kal8 likes this.

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      Consciousness Itself Universal Mind's Avatar
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      But what if it becomes relevant that Jesus and Muhammad really are butt buddies? They are, so what should we do?
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

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      The proponents of all this anti-blasphemy rhetoric are hypocrites. They seek respect for their beliefs, yet the mere proposal spits on our sacred belief in freedom of speech.

      Youtuber Patcondell sums it up quite well.
      Surrender your flesh. We demand it.

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      http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

      If you have stumbleupon, you'll note that most of the videos have 4 or 5 stars...just a fun side note.

      And no, religion should definitely not be free from scruitiny or blasphemy...to do so would be to stunt the growth of education and the human race. Science is challenged constantly and is peer-reviewed heavily...I see no reason why Religion should be immune from this. If anything, it should be given more scruitiny.

      And one further note...as long as people are allowed to stand on street corners, shouting that God hates homos and evolution is a lie, then I should have the same right to stand on the corner directly opposite and shout that Christianity is a lie and God is a fairy tale. Basic freedom of speech.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mario92 View Post
      scruitiny or blasphemy
      Good, you are acknowledging that these are two separate things.

      It's very different to say that,

      "Well, such and such prophet committed whatever acts, and that conflicts
      with the view of what is morally correct in modern society"

      vs

      "Your holy texts are shit and your messenger is an asshole"


      If, say, Muslims get really offended over having a visual portrayal of their
      prophet, what exactly is going to be achieved by making cartoons of him?

      Hey, you don't like being called a dumbass, do you? Do you have low self
      esteem issues, maybe, or anger management problems? Guess what. You're a
      dumbass.

      Do you understand what I'm getting at? Criticism is different from outright insults.

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind
      They are, so what should we do?
      Hi UM!

      Now this IS an interesting approach. Where do you get that whole, Jesus = Muhhamad stuff? Because I'll tell you right now, they are nothing alike.
      John 3:16

      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    9. #9
      Consciousness Itself Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noogah View Post
      Hi UM!

      Now this IS an interesting approach. Where do you get that whole, Jesus = Muhhamad stuff? Because I'll tell you right now, they are nothing alike.
      Hey Noogah. Welcome back to these parts.

      Jesus and Muhammad are not the same person. They just really like each other, a whole lot. They got caught under the bleachers one time.
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

    10. #10
      Xei
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      Let us all worship the giant floating gelatine Irish leprechaun, who dost declare

      'Thou can blaspheme all thou wantst. Go crazy.'

      Anybody who blasphemes our divine right to blaspheme is a blasphemer and as such must be punished.

    11. #11
      BICYCLE RIGHTS Catbus's Avatar
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      From blasphemy.ie

      2. Jesus Christ, talking to Jews about their God, in John 8:44: “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.” This is one of several chapters in the Christian Bible that can give a scriptural foundation to Christian anti-Semitism. The first part of John 8, the story of “whoever is without sin cast the first stone”, was not in the original version, but was added centuries later. The original John 8 is a debate between Jesus and some Jews. In brief, Jesus calls the Jews who disbelieve him sons of the Devil, the Jews try to stone him, and Jesus runs away and hides.
      Looks like Jesus needs a 25k Euro fine.


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    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Catbus View Post
      Looks like Jesus needs a 25k Euro fine.
      Damn skippy

      On topic: they can kiss my ass! If i could form all my hatred for these arrogant idiotic political hypocrites into a "Big Bang Kamehameha" i'd... well use it i guess lol
      Last edited by MementoMori; 01-09-2010 at 01:14 AM.

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    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
      Good, you are acknowledging that these are two separate things.

      It's very different to say that,

      "Well, such and such prophet committed whatever acts, and that conflicts
      with the view of what is morally correct in modern society"

      vs

      "Your holy texts are shit and your messenger is an asshole"


      If, say, Muslims get really offended over having a visual portrayal of their
      prophet, what exactly is going to be achieved by making cartoons of him?

      Hey, you don't like being called a dumbass, do you? Do you have low self
      esteem issues, maybe, or anger management problems? Guess what. You're a
      dumbass.

      Do you understand what I'm getting at? Criticism is different from outright insults.
      And that makes a blasphemy law ok because...?

      I can insult anyone I want, even complete strangers, but I can't insult some very sketchy and irrelevant characters who supposedly (italics!) lived centuries ago?

      Poor Irish, they probably will end up with 90% of the internet blocked out.
      Last edited by Scatterbrain; 01-09-2010 at 03:36 AM.
      - Are you an idiot?
      - No sir, I'm a dreamer.

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Scatterbrain View Post
      Poor Irish, they probably will end up with 90% of the internet blocked out.
      probably lol

      "MementoMori, the lucid machine"

      "There's nothing better than knowing what it's like to fly like superman. Being fully aware of the air whipping by you, controlling every movement of every single atom in your body with a single thought. It's real freedom, and there's not a word good enough to describe it, so I'll just call it dreamy for now."

    15. #15
      Xei
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      Indeed. Free speech is completely sacred, I won't abide by anybody saying otherwise.

      If somebody says something you think is wrong and you find it insulting, it is that person's right to voice their opinion and it is your right to ignore them.

      Any state which prevents that person from insulting you is saying that you do not have the cognitive ability to ignore them and they have diminished your status to a child.

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Indeed. Free speech is completely sacred, I won't abide by anybody saying otherwise.

      If somebody says something you think is wrong and you find it insulting, it is that person's right to voice their opinion and it is your right to ignore them.

      Any state which prevents that person from insulting you is saying that you do not have the cognitive ability to ignore them and they have diminished your status to a child.
      very well put.

      "MementoMori, the lucid machine"

      "There's nothing better than knowing what it's like to fly like superman. Being fully aware of the air whipping by you, controlling every movement of every single atom in your body with a single thought. It's real freedom, and there's not a word good enough to describe it, so I'll just call it dreamy for now."

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Indeed. Free speech is completely sacred, I won't abide by anybody saying otherwise.

      If somebody says something you think is wrong and you find it insulting, it is that person's right to voice their opinion and it is your right to ignore them.

      Any state which prevents that person from insulting you is saying that you do not have the cognitive ability to ignore them and they have diminished your status to a child.
      I was always of the Mill opinion that free speech promotes an open forum for ideas and thus in fact means people come closer toether and to the truth together.

      So if some extremist muslim cleric wants to preach on the street, then he should be allowed, because it is then everyone else's right to as you say ignore him, or hopefully to show him why he is wrong.

      This seems to make sense and it would seem would promote generally a pursuit of truth. But thinking about it, surely this model becomes skewed when things with larger voices become concerned.

      For example a large media corporation which propogates lies, and can simply outspeak any competition, and literally force itself heard everywhere. This seems like it could be a problematic anomaly to the idea. But I do think that it's a flawed argument.

      Anyway I was wondering what you think of that.

    18. #18
      Xei
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      Yes, I've thought about that. What I'd suggest is that people should naturally have the mindset that media corporations need to provide evidence if we are to believe them.

      What with the internet, it's very easy to spread true information with evidence about any lies or propaganda.

      If the media outlet somehow supresses contrary information; well, then that's against the axiom of free speech in the first place.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Yes, I've thought about that. What I'd suggest is that people should naturally have the mindset that media corporations need to provide evidence if we are to believe them.

      What with the internet, it's very easy to spread true information with evidence about any lies or propaganda.

      If the media outlet somehow supresses contrary information; well, then that's against the axiom of free speech in the first place.
      People should naturally have that mindset, but practically they don't. Most people will believe pretty unquestioningly what they read on a news website.

      In medieval times people would go to war for the church commanding them to, because it simply outspoke all else. Hypothetically if you could have controlled the level of free speech of the time, surely it would have been justified to suppress the overwhelming propoganda and lies of the church?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind
      Jesus and Muhammad are not the same person. They just really like each other, a whole lot.
      What makes you say THAT?
      John 3:16

      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    21. #21
      Consciousness Itself Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noogah View Post
      What makes you say THAT?
      I already told you.
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

    22. #22
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      No, all you did was claim that they liked each other.

      Are you being sarcastic or what? I have a bad sense of humor, so just tell me straight.
      John 3:16

      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Noogah View Post
      No, all you did was claim that they liked each other.

      Are you being sarcastic or what? I have a bad sense of humor, so just tell me straight.
      He said it was because they got caught under the bleachers one time.

    24. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Carôusoul View Post
      He said it was because they got caught under the bleachers one time.
      Neither has existed within the time frame of bleachers.

      I will assume a strange sort of sarcasm, or joke. I don't find funny in the least, as the two are quite opposite of each other.
      John 3:16

      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Noogah View Post
      Neither has existed within the time frame of bleachers.

      I will assume a strange sort of sarcasm, or joke. I don't find funny in the least, as the two are quite opposite of each other.
      :3


      This ten words bullshit is hurting my post style. I suppose that was the aim.

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