Thread: Deception? Destruction? The last days.

and muslims begin coming to America

As opposed to Muslims not coming to America right now? Or the ones that have been living here for a long time? Need clarification.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The way this sentence is set up, "they" and "them" refers to one set of people. Who is they/them in this case?

As opposed to Muslims not coming to America right now? Or the ones that have been living here for a long time? Need clarification.

Sorry for not being clear.

I suppose it's unfair to say "muslim". I quite basically mean all those who are admitely opposed to the United States, most of which, to my knowledge, are muslims, whcih is why I say "muslims"

Who is they/them in this case?

The one's we formerly regarded as enemies, now friends, but in actuality, stil hate the U.S.


Of course, I'm most likely going too far. The point being is, I don;t think the rapture will be as simplistic as people make it seem. I think it will be totally different, and quite likely correlated with a great disaster. (2012 anybody?)

So when do Christians come back to Earth after being up in Heaven?

Well, I'm not actually discussing the rapture here, I'm only pointing out how unrealistic the usual steretype is.

But, according to my knowledge of the book of Revelation, the Christians will be back seven years later.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Two threads in a row. Couldn't contain myself.

Another thought that I really wanted to share with the community.

After all the "Left Behind" hype, we all seem to have a pretty good idea what's going to happen at the rapture.

1.BOOM! Every Christian is gonna disappear off the face of this planet.

2.Lots of car wrecks, and disasters will occur as a result.

3.Somehow, people will ignore the fact that all the Christians disappeared, and find something else to blame it on.

Riiiiiiggggghhhhhhhttttt.......

Okay. Some people are dumb. No denying that. But, if suddenly, all the Christians went POOF, I have a feeling that something might go click, and the gears in nonbelievers heads would start to turn.

People aren't THAT stupid. I think they would realize that the rapture had occurred, and be prepared for the anti-christ to come, and I very much doubt he would be welcomed.

This also contradicts the Biblical scenario, that says people will be deceived as to what actually happened, and portrays the anti-christ as a very welcome sight to a distraught world.

I have a more dire vision of what would happen.

Think about it:

1. United States troops are pulled from Iraq.

2.Peace is made with the muslim countries, and everybody is happy.

3.A contract is signed, and muslims begin coming to America, not as enemies, but as friends, and are very welcome.

4.One month later, boom. Bombs go off everywhere. Churches blow up, and Christians are killed, along with other civilians and buildings.

Spoiler for 1 Thessalonians 5:3(King James Version):

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

5.Country is overtaken.

6.Guy comes on the scene and basically says, look guys, it doesn't have to be this way. Lets just have PEACE!!

Okay, now if you missed the part where all the true Christians are taken up to Heaven, it was in step four.

~REWIND~

People killed left and right, buildings blowing up, murder everywhere, just WHO is gonna be noticing that all the Christians are gone? Nobody. That's right. Because, guess what? It aint just the Christians, hundreds of other people were killed too. No one notices that at the same time, all the Christians disappeared.

Not to mention, there will still be people around who THOUGHT they were saved, so not only will no one notice, no one will suspect it. Because after all, here is [BIG GUY] from [BIG CHURCH] who was a really famous "Christian" and he wasn't taken up to Heaven, so no rapture occurred. Right? Wrong. Everyone was deceived.

Like I said. It's a ridiculous notion that suddenly everyone will disappear, and no one person would even suspect that Jesus had taken the Christians up.

Another thing: Who said our bodies would be taken up? No where in the Bible, to my knowledge, does it make explicit indication of our physical forms ascending to meet him. Afterall, we get a new body, right? All he would need is our soul. It could be that the Christian's bodies would be left behind, and no one would disappear at all.

One more thing. What if alot of nuclear weapons were used? Radiation would cause health problems, and lots of radiation would destroy the atmosphere, and kill the earth, increasing the temperature, and causing all the nasty harm that is also mentioned in Revelation.

I don't think the rapture will be anything like it's generally portrayed.

Discuss.

Sorry I had to bring a dose of reality to this thread, I guess it's not tolerated and automatically considered a troll and therefore deleted. I read the entire post and responded appropriately. What the fuck is this bullshit? It's people like Nooguh who herald the end of times that are going to cause serious problems in the future. Especially since a lot of them are beginning to intertwine 2012 with their Christian doomsday stories. It's pathetic because they aren't even interpreting the text properly, they are missing the point. It doesn't matter what it actually says anymore because TV evangelists, pastors and people like nooguh are spreading the doomsday tales, attempting to make connections with todays events. Not only is it arrogant to think that you will see the end of the world, but with a militant ignorance you spread your bullshit to everyone around you, infecting them with unnecessary worry and panic. Nooguh, you will not see the end of time, I don't care how old you live to be. Christians will not "go poof" into thin air (unfortunately), although I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't mind that.

Originally Posted by Noogah

I have a more dire vision of what would happen.

Think about it:

1. United States troops are pulled from Iraq.

2.Peace is made with the muslim countries, and everybody is happy.

3.A contract is signed, and muslims begin coming to America, not as enemies, but as friends, and are very welcome.

4.One month later, boom. Bombs go off everywhere. Churches blow up, and Christians are killed, along with other civilians and buildings.

Spoiler for 1 Thessalonians 5:3(King James Version):

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

5.Country is overtaken.

6.Guy comes on the scene and basically says, look guys, it doesn't have to be this way. Lets just have PEACE!!

Okay, now if you missed the part where all the true Christians are taken up to Heaven, it was in step four.

It is incredibly, incredibly telling of you that your idea of how the end of the world will play out is entirely United States centric.


Because y'know, it's not like there is anyone else in the world.


Honestly though, you're hinging the end of the world on muslims coming to the United States.

Do you have any idea how fucking simply xenophobic and stupid you come across?

"The end of the world will come because different people will come to our country "

Please please stop thinking in such a medieval way. Seriously, was the whole last 500 years of enlightenment thought, art and philosophy lost on you? It's like you're actually from the 10th century. But with more arrogance and stupidity.


So what if bombs go off all over america killing christians? "If ther ar no cristians in murica then its end of world guise ". You are actually talking as if christians in america are the only people in the world apart from muslims

What about the millions of christians in south america, in europe, in asia, in africa?
Oh I guess they aren't real christians because they aren't american.. or?


Come on please. i can get over this.



I'm very close to speechless at just how ignorant you are. This is one of the worst posts I have ever seen in my entire life.


wake the fuck up man.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Sorry I had to bring a dose of reality to this thread, I guess it's not tolerated and automatically considered a troll and therefore deleted. I read the entire post and responded appropriately. What the fuck is this bullshit? It's people like Nooguh who herald the end of times that are going to cause serious problems in the future. Especially since a lot of them are beginning to intertwine 2012 with their Christian doomsday stories. It's pathetic because they aren't even interpreting the text properly, they are missing the point. It doesn't matter what it actually says anymore because TV evangelists, pastors and people like nooguh are spreading the doomsday tales, attempting to make connections with todays events. Not only is it arrogant to think that you will see the end of the world, but with a militant ignorance you spread your bullshit to everyone around you, infecting them with unnecessary worry and panic. Nooguh, you will not see the end of time, I don't care how old you live to be. Christians will not "go poof" into thin air (unfortunately), although I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't mind that.

Why?! because you say so? because you can't find the christian God anywhere? there's shit out in space you'll never see or know about but it's still there... hell there's places on earth you'll never go to and no one will ever take a picture of but it's still there. I don't believe in any religion nor a i an atheist but Irony likes to F with with people... I wouldn't be surprised if i die and open my eyes at the pearly gates (i'd be cussing the whole time). I'm not saying it's definite but hell it's a possibility, a crazy wild outlandish one, but hell so was this guy:

Originally Posted by MementoMori

Why?! because you say so? because you can't find the christian God anywhere? there's shit out in space you'll never see or know about but it's still there... hell there's places on earth you'll never go to and no one will ever take a picture of but it's still there. I don't believe in any religion nor a i an atheist but Irony likes to F with with people... I wouldn't be surprised if i die and open my eyes at the pearly gates (i'd be cussing the whole time). I'm not saying it's definite but hell it's a possibility, a crazy wild outlandish one, but hell so was this guy

So what you're saying is that there are so many things we don't know and can never know that it's reasonable to believe in anything you want?

I don't think so Tim.

1 Thessalonians 5

1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

-Biblegateway

My point is made.

Edit: So this basically means, you don't know when God decides it's time.

Edit: And why preach destruction, shouldn't you go preach love and happiness?

Oh dear. It seems the thread has gone rather haywire.

Originally Posted by Carousoul

It is incredibly, incredibly telling of you that your idea of how the end of the world will play out is entirely United States centric.

Well, you have to keep in mind. The United States is currently the most powerful country in the world, to my knowledge. I don't really see how an anti-christ could takeover without the U.S intervening, so I have a theory we will deteriorate before it happens.

Originally Posted by Carousoul

What about the millions of christians in south america, in europe, in asia, in africa?
Oh I guess they aren't real christians because they aren't american.. or?

You're missing the point of the thread.

Of course, this is probably not quite (or not at all) how the rapture will occur. I'm only trying to demonstrate how subtle it could be,a nd no one would notice that it ever happened.

I'm not trying to pin the proverbial tail on the donkey, I'm only trying to say taht i think the rapture will occur accompanied by a great disaster, which will be part of the deception.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

My point is made

True, but I haven't done any date guessing so far.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Do you have any idea how fucking simply xenophobic and stupid you come across?

I feel like this needed to be reiterated.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Of course, this is probably not quite (or not at all) how the rapture will occur. I'm only trying to demonstrate how subtle it could be,a nd no one would notice that it ever happened.

I'm not trying to pin the proverbial tail on the donkey, I'm only trying to say taht i think the rapture will occur accompanied by a great disaster, which will be part of the deception..

No this is not what you were saying. Don't deny it.

You explicitly stated that it will occur because muslims start going to the US.

You DID NOT say it would occur accompanied by a great disaster, you said clearly that it would happen because Muslims come to the US. [Although that probably would be a great disaster for you wouldn't it, yeah all those evil jihadist terrorist muslims coming and corrupting America! The bastion of freedom!]


Can you not take a step back and look at yourself and see how horrible you are coming across here?

I mean you can't deny that you basically stated you think it would happen because muslims visit the US, and christians in the US die.

Don't go back on that, that's what you said, and I'm calling you out because you're talking absolute bullshit, and it's pretty fucking offensive how ignorant you are.

/popcorn

You don't need to be date guessing, you're implying that it will happen when we recall troops from Iraq, and President Obama is in the process of doing so. If the Bible really is what it says it is, entirely true, NO ONE will be able to even guess when it will happen, or who the Anti Christ is. That's something a lot of Christians don't know by accusing Obama of being the anti christ. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Christian but these other christians are just out of hand by preaching about hate and death when we should be preaching about Christ's love.

You explicitly stated that it will occur because muslims start going to the US.

...that was a hypothetical situation. I didn't say that's how I thought it would occur. It a scenario made up to encourage critical thinking on the issue, beyond what is generally stereotyped.

The whole story was preceded by

Think about it:

which I mistakenly thought would be enough to demonstrate that the story was not to be taken literal, but only as one of countless possibilities.

If it serves you better, ignore the story, and refer to what proceded in the OP:

People killed left and right, buildings blowing up, murder everywhere, just WHO is gonna be noticing that all the Christians are gone? Nobody. That's right. Because, guess what? It aint just the Christians, hundreds of other people were killed too. No one notices that at the same time, all the Christians disappeared.

Not to mention, there will still be people around who THOUGHT they were saved, so not only will no one notice, no one will suspect it. Because after all, here is [BIG GUY] from [BIG CHURCH] who was a really famous "Christian" and he wasn't taken up to Heaven, so no rapture occurred. Right? Wrong. Everyone was deceived.

Once again, yes the story is dire and outrageous, but it's only an example.

So...if you're still upset about it...I can't say much else.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

You don't need to be date guessing, you're implying that it will happen when we recall troops from Iraq, and President Obama is in the process of doing so.

Refer to the edit made in the op.

Originally Posted by Noogah

...that was a hypothetical situation. I didn't say that's how I thought it would occur. It a scenario made up to encourage critical thinking on the issue, beyond what is generally stereotyped.

The whole story was preceded by which I mistakenly thought would be enough to demonstrate that the story was not to be taken literal, but only as one of countless possibilities.

If it serves you better, ignore the story, and refer to what procede in the OP:



Once again, yes the story is dire and outrageous, but it's only an example.

So...if you're still upset about it...I can't say much else.



Refer to the edit made in the op.

You referred to it as "your vision" of what would happen.

Also, I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to give you even this much leeway, what in your mind is the rapture and why would it happen? And why do you personally believe that it will happen? That's what shocks me most of all how someone can have your mindset, and hold it seriously. It's beyond belief.

Originally Posted by Noogah

...that was a hypothetical situation. I didn't say that's how I thought it would occur. It a scenario made up to encourage critical thinking on the issue, beyond what is generally stereotyped.

Bullshit, I'm sensing some backtracking here now that you're realizing that what you posted was incredibly ignorant and not thought out at all.

Originally Posted by Noogah

The whole story was preceded by (think about it which I mistakenly thought would be enough to demonstrate that the story was not to be taken literal, but only as one of countless possibilities.

Think about it: The fall of the United States will be caused by Jews. They will infiltrate our society, take control of our banks, kill all of our Christian men and claim our Christian women for themselves.

No matter how you phrase the above statement, it's still anti-Semitic, and it's still disgusting.

Originally Posted by Carousoul

And why do you personally believe that it will happen?

I never said I did. If it was implied, please forgive me.

Originally Posted by catbus

I'm sensing some backtracking here now that you're realizing that what you posted was incredibly ignorant and not thought out at all.

You are probably correct to an extent.

Originally Posted by Catbus

No matter how you phrase the above statement, it's still anti-Semitic, and it's still disgusting.

Perhaps you missed my second post?

Originally Posted by Noogah

I suppose it's unfair to say "muslim". I quite basically mean all those who are admitely opposed to the United States, most of which, to my knowledge, are muslims, whcih is why I say "muslims"

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

So what you're saying is that there are so many things we don't know and can never know that it's reasonable to believe in anything you want?

I don't think so Tim.

It's Tool Time har har

No Carousoul, what i mean is keep your oppositions and disagreements but don't TOTALLY count the opposed idea out. I'm saying just watch your back for Irony

Originally Posted by Noogah

I never said I did. If it was implied, please forgive me.

So do you believe that "rapture" will occur?

Originally Posted by Noogah

Perhaps you missed my second post?

Aha. So you're saying the end of the world will be caused by anyone who doesn't like your country now. Much better.

Originally Posted by MementoMori

It's Tool Time har har

No Carousoul, what i mean is keep your oppositions and disagreements but don't TOTALLY count the opposed idea out. I'm saying just watch your back for Irony

Of course, Anyone with a sensible mindset will never TOTALLY count out an idea, unless it's a logical impossibility, like, 2+2=5 or whatever.

But I still don't think that just because there is a slight possibility it is reasonable to believe something. That's just silly.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Do you have any idea how fucking simply xenophobic and stupid you come across?

I know Catbus already quoted this, but I honestly do not think it can be said enough. America would only benefit from an influx of Middle-Eastern culture.

Plus, the world would probably be better off with America in ruins anyway.

Originally Posted by CanceledCzech

I know Catbus already quoted this, but I honestly do not think it can be said enough. America would only benefit from an influx of Middle-Eastern culture.

Plus, the world would probably be better off with America in ruins anyway.

Brofist, man.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Perhaps you missed my second post?

My bad, I jumped the gun on that one. But after examining your second post I'm a little bit confused.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Sorry for not being clear.

I suppose it's unfair to say "muslim". I quite basically mean all those who are admitely opposed to the United States, most of which, to my knowledge, are muslims, whcih is why I say "muslims"

Are you saying that the majority of the people who are opposed to the policies of the United States are Muslims with that? Admittedly, I don't know the demographics of people who don't agree with the United States, but I think it would be a stretch to say that the majority of them are Muslims.

Originally Posted by Noogah

The one's we formerly regarded as enemies, now friends, but in actuality, stil hate the U.S.

I think you're making the assumption that the majority of Muslims are Islamists, and that isn't the case at all.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

So do you believe that "rapture" will occur?

I believe man will create his own apocalypse.
We need no help from any deity.