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    Thread: Evidence That The Bible is God's Word

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      Evidence That The Bible is God's Word

      Time had a beginning

      2 Timothy 1:9

      Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

      Titus 1:2

      In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

      1 Corinthians 2:7

      But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

      The universe had a beginning

      Genesis 1:1

      In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

      Genesis 2:4

      These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

      Isaiah 42:5

      Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

      The universe was created from the invisible

      Hebrews 11:3

      Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

      The dimensions of the universe were created

      Romans 8:38-39

      For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

      The universe is expanding

      Job 9:8

      Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

      Psalm 104:2

      Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

      Isaiah 40:22

      It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

      Isaiah 42:5

      Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

      Isaiah 44:24

      Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

      Isaiah 45:12

      I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

      Isaiah 48:13

      Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

      Isaiah 51:13

      And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?

      Jeremiah 10:12

      He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

      Jeremiah 51:15

      He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.

      Zechariah 12:1

      The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

      Creation of matter and energy has ended in the universe (refutes steady-state theory)

      Genesis 2:3-4

      And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

      The universe is winding down and will "wear out" (second law of thermodynamics ensures that the universe will run down due to "heat death"-maximum entropy)

      Psalm 102:25-27

      Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

      Describes the correct order of creation

      Genesis 1

      Number of stars exceeds a billion

      Genesis 22:17

      That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

      Jeremiah 33:22

      As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

      Every star is different

      1 Corinthians 15:41

      There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

      Pleiades and Orion as gravitationally bound star groups

      Job 38:31

      Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

      Light is in motion

      Job 38:19-20

      Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

      The earth is controlled by the heavens

      Job 38:33

      Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

      Earth is a sphere

      Isaiah 40:22

      It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

      Job 26:10

      He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

      At any time, there is day and night on the Earth

      Luke 17:34-35

      I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

      Earth is suspended in space

      Job 26:7

      He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

      Earth began as a waterworld. Formation of continents by tectonic activity described

      Genesis 1:2-9

      And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

      Psalm 104:6-9

      Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

      Proverbs 3:19

      The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

      Proverbs 8:27-29

      When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

      Job 38:4-8

      Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

      2 Peter 3:5

      For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

      Water cycle described

      Ecclesiastes 1:7

      All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

      Isaiah 55:10

      For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

      Job 36:27-28

      For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof:Which the clouds do drop and distil upon man abundantly.

      Valleys exist on the bottom of the sea

      2 Samuel 22:16

      And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

      Vents exist on the bottom of the sea

      Job 38:16

      Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?

      Ocean currents in the sea

      Psalm 8:8

      The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

      Air has weight

      Job 28:25

      To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.

      Winds blow in circular paths

      Ecclesiastes 1:6

      The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

      The chemical nature of human life

      Genesis 2:7

      And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

      Genesis 3:19

      In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

      Life of creatures are in the blood

      Leviticus 17:11

      For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

      The nature of infectious diseases

      Leviticus 13:46

      All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be.

      Importance of sanitation to health

      Numbers 19

      Deuteronomy 23:12-13

      Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

      Leviticus 7-9

      * Jeremiah 33:22 claims that the stars of the heaven are innumerable. Hippocrates, before the invention of the telescope charted and numbered 1,022 stars. Kepler later recounted and revised the number. Today scientists agree with Jeremiah. There are billions just in our galaxy! It is interesting that the Bible makes the number of stars roughly equivalent to the number of grains of sand on the seashore (Genesis 22:17; Hebrews 11:12). Carl Sagan also compared these two, leaning towards the number of stars being greater. Amazingly, the latest estimates of the gross number of sand grains are comparable to the modern estimated number of stars in the universe!

      * Judges 5:20 mentions "the stars in their courses." While it was once believed that the stars were fixed, today we know that they too move in a predictable way.

      * Job 38:19 is accurate in the way it characterizes light. Note that darkness is in a place but light is in a way. It travels a path.

      * Job 38:24 indicates the light of the sun (by heating) makes the wind.

      * In Genesis 1:1 and Hebrews 1:10-12 the Bible is unequivocal that the universe had a beginning. When the Bible was written many people believed the universe was eternal. Starting with the studies of Albert Einstein in the early 1900’s and continuing still today, science has confirmed the biblical view that the universe had a beginning.

      * Moreover, the universe is expanding (Job 9:8; Isaiah 42:5; Jeremiah 51:15; Zechariah 12:1). Repeatedly God declares that He stretches out the heavens. During the early 20th century, most scientists (including Einstein) believed the universe was static. Others believed it oscillated and would eventually collapsed due to gravity. Then in 1929, astronomer Edwin Hubble showed that distant galaxies were receding from the earth. This discovery revolutionized the field of astronomy. Einstein admitted his mistake, and today most astronomers agree with what the Creator told us millennia ago – the universe is expanding!

      * Job 36:27 asks how the rain drops stay small (discrete even in a strong wind)? One of the reasons is found in Psalm 135:5-7. Because of the electrical charges in the clouds, the rain drops repel each other as they fall. This is why electrical static during a rain or snow storm can interrupt transmissions.

      * Ezekiel 5:5, 38:12 claims that Jerusalem is the center of the earth. ICR commissioned a computer analysis of the earth’s land-masses and discovered that the geographic center is in Palestine, near the holy city.

      *Psalm 103:12 The Psalmist seeks to describe how far away God has removed the sins of those who have been forgiven. Interestingly, one can go west or east forever, unlike north and south.

      * Hebrews 1:11-12 describes the wearing down of the creation in language that nicely mirrors the second law of thermodynamics and II Peter 3:12 describes the heavens one day passing away in a fire that causes the elements to melt in fervent heat (a pretty accurate description of nuclear meltdown).

      * Ecclesiastes 1:4-7 describes the whirling motion of the winds and the movement of storm fronts long before the advent of modern meteorology.

      * Job 37:16 also gives significant meteorological information, including the balancing of the vapors in the clouds. Job 36:27 adds that the quantity of the rain is proportional to the amount of vapor aloft.

      * Job 26:7 The ancients Greeks believed that the world was held up by Atlas. Other civilizations held similar ideas. The Bible made an unusual claim: God did not hang the world on anything.

      * Psalm 8:8 discusses the "paths of the seas." The story is told that when the man we call "the Father of Oceanography," Matthew Fontain Maury, read Psalm 8 the aforementioned phrase stuck in his mind. He later sought to confirm the idea and eventually wrote The Physical Geography of the Sea in1855. It was the first textbook on modern oceanography. The state of Virginia erected a memorial to him that cites this passage.

      * Isaiah 40:22 Some have claimed that the Bible supports the "flat earth theory." But this passage declares that God sits upon the "circle of the earth."

      * Job 38:13-14 conveys the idea of the earth rotating on its axis: "the earth...is turned as clay to the seal."

      * In Luke 17:34-36 the worldwide event of Christ’s return is being discussed. The scientifically significant fact is that these verses allude to the different time zones around the globe long before the earth’s rotation was understood by scientists. Note that when Christ comes, some will be enjoying nighttime sleep while others are grinding in preparation for the day’s baking (typically morning) and others are working in the field (typically afternoon).

      * One of the directors of Standard Oil Company read in Exodus 2:3 how Moses was placed in an ark "daubed with slime and pitch." He sent the company geologist Charles Whitshott to determine if there was still oil in that region. The discovery of oil led to Standard having very successful well operations in Egypt. (Tan, Paul L., Encyclopedia of 7700 Illustrations, p. 191.)

      * The practice of medical bleeding as a treatment (often with leeches) was common until the middle of the 19th century. Historians believe that George Washington's bleeding caused his death. (Thayer, William R., George Washington, 1922, p. 240) Ironically, by his bedside was a Bible that stated in Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

      * Linguists have determined that all the earth's peoples must have originally shared a common language. That is precisely what the Bible declares in Genesis 11:1.

      * The concept of embodied in the laws of thermodynamics: the constant of the universe’s mass/energy and the universal tendency towards decay and disorder are clearly articulated in Ecclesiastes 3:14 and Romans 8:21-22.

      * Jonah wrote that there are mountains on the bottom of the ocean floor (Jonah 2:5-6). Only in the last century have we discovered that there are towering mountains and deep troughs in the sea.

      * In Job 38:16 God challenged Job to find the “springs of the sea.” But the ocean is so deep that almost all the ocean floor is in total darkness and the water pressure becomes enormous. It would have been impossible for Job to have explored the “springs of the sea.” Until recently, it was thought that oceans were fed only by rivers and rain. Yet in the 1970s, with the help of deep diving research submarines that were constructed to withstand the pressure, oceanographers discovered springs on the ocean floors!

      * Much of the Old Testament Levitical law is comprised of health-related restrictions involving diet, cleansing, and quarantine. The book "None of These Diseases" and Keller’s work demonstrate the healthfulness of following that advice. Human medicine did not realize this until thousands of years after it was written! For example, the Bible cautions against consuming fat (Leviticus 7:23). Only in recent decades has the medical community determined that fat clogs arteries and contributes to heart disease. In Leviticus 11 the Scripture commanded Jews to avoid sea creatures which do not have fins or scales. We now know that bottom-feeders (those with no scales or fins) tend to consume waste and are more likely to carry disease. Then the Bible warns against eating birds of prey. Scientists now recognize that those birds which eat carrion (putrefying flesh), often spread disease. The Bible prohibited the Israelites from eating swine (Deuteronomy 14:8). Not so long ago, science learned that eating undercooked pork causes an infection of parasites called trichinosis. When dealing with diseases, the instruction was that clothes and body should be washed under running water (Leviticus 15:13). For centuries people naively washed in standing water. Today we recognize the need to wash away germs with fresh water.

      * The Bible declares that life begins at conception (Jeremiah 1:5) and God declares that He knew each of us before we were born (Psalm 139:13-15). In Exodus 21:22-23, the biblical penalty for killing an unborn child was death. Today, it is an irrefutable biological fact that the fertilized egg is truly an entire human being. Nothing will be added to the first cell except nutrition and oxygen.

      * The Bible commanded circumcision of baby Jewish boys on the eighth day. (See Genesis 17:12; Leviticus 12:3; Luke 1:59). Medical science has discovered that the blood clotting chemical prothrombin peaks in a newborn on the eighth day. This is therefore the safest day to circumcise a baby. How could Moses have known this?

      * Wise pest-control procedures are given in Leviticus 25:1-24. Modern farmers are still plagued by multiplying insects. Yet God gave a sure-fire remedy to control these pests centuries ago. Moses commanded Israel to set aside one year in seven when no crops were raised. Insects winter in the stalks of last year’s harvest, hatch in the spring, and are perpetuated by laying eggs in the new crop. If the crop is denied one year in seven, the pests are controlled. And this promoted soil conservation.

      * When Noah was instructed to build the huge barge that would preserve his family and two of each kind of land creature, the Lord specified for him the perfect dimensions for a stable water vessel (Genesis 6:15). Ship builders today are well aware that the ideal dimension for ship stability is to have the length about six times that of the width. Dr. Werner Gitt demonstrated that the ark had the ideal dimensions to optimize both stability and economy of material. Yet God gave Noah these ideal dimensions over 4,500 years ago.

      Still think the Bible was written by man
      Last edited by kingerman; 07-07-2010 at 07:01 PM.

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      Still think the Bible was written by man
      Yes.
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      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
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      Is that a question?

      If so, of course. This is a list of sentences which, usually by pretty convoluted means, can be made to sound like some scientific discovery or other. None of them resembles any kind of coherent understanding or theory (e.g. the star cluster thing when the previous statement makes it clear the Bible has no conception that the sun is a star or that the moon is totally different; rather basic knowledge). Many of them are shared by religions other than Christianity and many others are just plain obvious (we're of the Earth? Really? Thanks Bible, I hadn't noticed that we bury people who then decompose).
      Last edited by Xei; 07-07-2010 at 07:13 PM.

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      You present the wrong evidence. It is written, in several places that it is sealed to man's understanding. It is also written that those seals would be loosened at a particular time in history. No man can change that. The demonstration will be very far reaching and involves just what the text is about---human judgment.

      Unless you have been taught as a prophet, and are that particular prophet, you are wasting your time. The blind cannot lead the blind.

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      So where is the evidence?

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      Thank you for placing all of those Scriptures in one place.

      I thought along the same lines as Philosopher, though. It takes spiritual vision to see such evidence. Earthly people just see a bunch of words. Perhaps something said can help them change their vision slightly (or dramatically), but it has to be a change of their own doing.
      What's the Scripture that speaks about not engaging in religious arguments simply for the sake of arguing? It's not about getting in the last word (which is sometimes hard to practice lol)

      For the naysayers... the proof is supposed to be the fact that the Bible was so far ahead of it's time. The information given here wasn't something commonly believed by people during the time period God's people practiced and believed them (the Flat Earth being one example). But because the Bible was so knowledgeable from it's beginning, believers take it to mean it must have been inspired by the Creator.

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      Actually, it has to do with a promise--a promise about the development of the mind of man. Like any other environmental acquisition system, it can be tested by its function. Since the development of the mind means linguistic functionality, the text was seald not by magic, but because those functions of langauge ae not yet resident in the mind of man. They will be. I hope. Suffice it to say, the evidence is right in front of one's face, however, it is one's own biological limitations that make one unable to see it. However, biology permiting, it can be taught. It boils down to simple evolutionaly process driven through intervention. If one does have it, it must be exercised. Use it or lose it.
      Last edited by Philosopher8659; 07-07-2010 at 08:57 PM.

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      not so sure.. Achievements:
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zhaylin View Post
      It takes spiritual vision to see such evidence. Earthly people just see a bunch of words. Perhaps something said can help them change their vision slightly (or dramatically), but it has to be a change of their own doing.
      But that is practically true for all spiritual truths.

      There is a lot of awe inspiring words out there.

      One can even reach a revelation by watching a river for example.

      For the naysayers... the proof is supposed to be the fact that the Bible was so far ahead of it's time. The information given here wasn't something commonly believed by people during the time period God's people practiced and believed them (the Flat Earth being one example). But because the Bible was so knowledgeable from it's beginning, believers take it to mean it must have been inspired by the Creator.
      But there were far more knowledgable texts that have been written a long time before the bible. And we know that a lot of them are written by "earthly people". You can be spiritually inclined, open to greater truths and still call bullshit on supposed evidence for a greater power literally having written that book.

      There are many ways that a spiritual truth can be liberating, but as you said it has to come from inside, thus being a subjective feature. I personally hold the subjective nature of our existence in very high regard, but I suppose that people quoting the christian bible are trying to imply that it is this scripture bearing the truth for all, which is foolish, imo.

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      I have a lot of love for ancient spiritual/religious/historical/mythological text. But the bible DID NOT EXIST when any of these texts that you just quoted were written! There was no bible when genesis was written, there was no bible when Jesus walked the earth.

      The bible that we have today was constructed by Emperor Constantine and Council of Nicea at least 200 years after Christ. While bible loving Christians will tell you their construction of the bible was flawless - not all Christians - even contemporary Christians at the time - agreed. At least 20 books, some of them gospels concerning the life of Jesus, were NOT included in the final bible.

      Constantine also helped the Catholic Church rise to POWER. What happens after wards is nearly 2000 years of transforming a spiritual movement started by Jesus and transforming it into a dogmatic religion hell bent on dominating.

      How can we say that the bible is the word of God, without first asking who made the bible and why? Did the creators of the bible have the purest intentions of spreading the word of God - or did they have some other motive? What were these other books, why were they discarded from the bible, and who gave the bible creators the right to discard them?

      And also, if you have read the bible then you also know that the Word is Living. Books btw, are dead.

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      Ah, the bigot is back again to evangelise I see.

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      Consciousness Itself Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Let me get this straight. The author or authors of the Bible came to correct conclusions such as that there was no universe before there was the universe, the creation of the universe involved more and more universe, the number of stars in the sky is very big, there are valleys on the ocean floor like there are on the land, dirty people get sick more than clean people, and wind can move in circles, therefore the author of the Bible is all knowing and is therefore God? Is that the argument?
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      If I found an intelligent microscopic race of creatures and was able to convey to them some simple physics or chemistry, I could probably claim to be God. And they would believe me, because they'd rule out all other possible sources, like more intelligent creatures they cannot see or even those enlightened among them. My claim to divinity through the explanation of physical events is not evidence for me being God. There are a lot of people who'd disagree with me, however, and that makes me sad.

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      peyton manning Caprisun's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by juroara View Post
      Constantine also helped the Catholic Church rise to POWER. What happens after wards is nearly 2000 years of transforming a spiritual movement started by Jesus and transforming it into a dogmatic religion hell bent on dominating.
      It's funny you should say that because I was under the impression that it was those characteristics that allowed Christianity to gain a following in the first place. Christianity was dogmatic and hell bent on dominating from it's inception. Constantine recognized Christianity's rising power and named it the official religion of Rome as a political move, at least that's what the theory is. The true historical origins of Christianity are not at all glorious.
      "Someday, I think you and I are going to have a serious disagreement." -- Hawkeye (Daniel Day-Lewis) Last of the Mohicans

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      Sleeping Dragon juroara's Avatar
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      I don't know what your sources are, but the first Christians didn't believe in a centralized church. It's one thing for a religion to become POPULAR, but without a centralized church, popularity is not synonymous with political power.

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      A religion that young won't have a centralized authority. It was the pandering of it's followers that made the rise to political power inevitable and there still remains the fact that the earliest Christians were very similar to today's Muslim extremists, minus the suicide bombs. Do you really think all Christians were saints before Constantine? The nature of Christianity was established well before Constantine.
      Last edited by Caprisun; 07-09-2010 at 03:33 AM.
      "Someday, I think you and I are going to have a serious disagreement." -- Hawkeye (Daniel Day-Lewis) Last of the Mohicans

    16. #16
      Terminally Out of Phase Descensus's Avatar
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      For fuck sake.

      The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
      I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
      Formerly known as BLUELINE976

    17. #17
      Consciousness Itself Universal Mind's Avatar
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      That is one of the most profound videos ever posted in the Religion/Spirituality forum. I would love to see what a true creationist has to say about it, but I am not holding my breath for that.

      Kingerman seems to have left the building, yet again. He is what you call a hit and run fundamentalist.
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by kingerman View Post
      The universe is expanding
      Hate to bust your bubble, even though you would not understand it, can you predicate of a first principle? When it was written that the wisdom of the wise shall perish, it was written because it is true. You can repeat what you hear, but you have no mind to see the logical impossibility of the linguistic construction. Length qua Length does not, cannot become shorter or longer. Nor can space qua space become more or less spacy. You can not bend it, stretch it, fold it, etc.

      The same is true about the big bang, that the universe was created from a singularity. This is only a fancy way of saying that the difference was created from a boundary (not a difference). Or again, that one can create a salad by waving a knife in the air an infinite number fo times. Or that a line, plane, or space consists of an infinite number of points, i.e. singularities once again. The Elephant standing on an Elephant, Once upon a time there was a mama singularity that created all the infinite singularities in existece. How very fertile of her.

      If man knew truth, no one need be sent. Do not be dismayed, there will be a transition from a time when men could only heap words together, until one day he uses them in accordance with principles. This can only happen when one is aware of the meaning of the words they use.

      Predication is the inverse function of abstraction. One cannot abstract from an abstraction nor predicate an abstraction of an abstraction.
      Last edited by Philosopher8659; 07-10-2010 at 04:12 AM.

    19. #19
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      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
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      That rarely made syntactical sense, let alone semantic sense.

      There is no contradiction in something expanding. If something is made of lots of little separate things and the distances between all of those separate things increases, that's called expansion (as confirmed by observation). And that's what's happening to the universe. The very definition of space requires that you find some constant with which to compare; there's no problem here, any more than there's a problem in saying that balloons expand when you inflate them.

    20. #20
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      There you go, thinking that you are thinking. Read a little Plato and Aristotle, The two abstractions from a thing are not things. These two nothings are first principles, form and material difference.

      And then ask your own body. Some of your abstraction systems abstract a things form, others their matrerial difference, not one abstracts the thing in itself.

      Neither abstraction can be defined, only things can.

      No first principle can be defined. No element. they can only be named.

      Space is not a thing. Length is not a thing. A boundary is not a thing.

      And I am repeating, because it is true, what Plato said. If you cannot distinguish in thought and words, the difference between the names of things, the names of a things forms, and the names of that things material difference, it is because you cannot think at all.
      Last edited by Philosopher8659; 07-10-2010 at 04:41 AM.

    21. #21
      peyton manning Caprisun's Avatar
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      Clearly you are schizophrenic.
      "Someday, I think you and I are going to have a serious disagreement." -- Hawkeye (Daniel Day-Lewis) Last of the Mohicans

    22. #22
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      Well clearly. Perhaps that is why the Two-Element Metaphysics never developed in history.

      That certainly is one possibility. And it most certainly would be the democratic solution.

      But I really think you would have a harder time redesigning the psych tests to prove I am insane than I would writing such things as The Delian Quest.

      And that was written in MathCad and Geometers Sketchpad.

      Both use the language of form and material difference.

      Call me mad, but then you would end up well, perhaps you can follow the train of thought but I doubt it.

      I will give you a leg up, however, in proving my insanity. Disprove what I did in the Delian Quest--and it is something you surely might gain some fame for, because the existence of that work, The Delian Quest, actually disproves something no one has yet suspected. Read why the Cartesian Coordinate system was developed--because man could not parallel Algebra and Geometry.

      Yet in the Delian Quest there is no Cartesian Coordinate Systems yet every Algebraic train of equations is perfect. ---

      Try it. Oh, It just occured to me what this last means, you might think that I am off in space again.

      It amounts to the fact that it is historically documented that man could not say the same thing in the two different languages without developing a third.

      I did and can do, what it is claimed cannot be done.

      I can see it now! One mad fool defending himself against the military powers of the world defending himself only with Occam's Razor! Make a nice tv series.

      PS Once you demonstrate, as I did, the direct parallel between the two languages, you automatically disprove all the science based on non-Euclidean Geometry. Because, my friend, to claim otherwise, it is you, not I who are mad. And instead of changing your gibbish you are confined to one, and only one linguistic expression. Saying the same thing in every language you choose to develope. It is not consistency that is insane, it is never saying the things twice about the same things.

      It is not those who claim that there is one, and only one conceptual foundation for the languages of man that are mad, it is man himself who claims otherwise. The two classes are concentually distinct, and I grant you have democracy on your side---but I have truth.

      You have lived a life with inconsistency of thought. Any real consistency will make you dizzy.

      Now I came to this site looking for a soul mate, one who just might be tired of being a dog that chases its own tail. But you see my problem, there is certainly many people like you in your world, but only one of me. My words are strange, but on some level, she can see some truth to them.
      Last edited by Philosopher8659; 07-10-2010 at 04:29 PM.

    23. #23
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      It boils down to simple evolutionaly process driven through intervention.
      Hey Philosopher, when you say that, do you mean something like eugenics? I'll see if I can follow the Delian Quest.
      Reality Check
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    24. #24
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      The real meaning is something that not even I can wrap my brain around. Whatever this "God" is, has been working with man a long time. The idea of intelligence in the Universe who garden other planets is something beyond my imagination, but because of what I have seen in my life, something i cannot deny. Even though it is written that this is the case, we can only look at such words as mythology, we cannot comprehend it--not really.

      In many respects, it keeps a very low profile. At least to our level of awareness. The main reason being, its ability to think is way beyond ours. We can never out guess it, or outsmart it. And because I could never comprehend it, it scares me. One should always be afraid of one's own impotence.
      Last edited by Philosopher8659; 07-10-2010 at 04:47 PM.

    25. #25
      Consciousness Itself Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Philosopher8659, Plato and Aristotle are not exactly authorities. They were just ancient philosophers who said interesting things and inspired a great deal of inquiry that pushed later thinkers in the right directions. Aristotle tried to be a scientist, and a whole lot of his conclusions have been proven false. Though he did form some legitimate conclusions, he is mostly famous for his mere influence.
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

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