Thread: Towards the ?

A friend told my years ago about a way to increce dream memory and develop dream control. It sounded pretty cool to me, but I had other more important things to evolve in; so I've put it aside.
I'm really interested in personal development, in all directions. So I somehow got to Professor Allan Snyder's experiment and the notion that there's a Savant in all of us.
After reading about the variety of Savant skills, and the explanations. And also other skills like "speed or photo reading". I remembered about what my friend told me about, and figured that it might be a way to get through to those and other super abilities.
So this is the reason I started learning it now and not in the distant future. But now that I've experienced it; I thing it's too bad I didn't start it as early as possible. I hardly do anything for that throughout the day; and as someone says here in his signature - we spend a third of our life in sleep, so why waste it?
My LDs are still very short; and not much control. But what I already saw, partially conforms that what I hope I can achieve with Lucid Dreaming can be achieved.
I think that potentially it can be a huge step for mankind.

Whether it will change your personal (waking) life, or the face of humanity is dependent on what each individual does with it. Just like any other advanced technological tool.
As the matter of fact, it's true even about the first tool made by man that could be used for hunting; but just as like, for war of people against each-other.
You have much more then a super-computer. Most people wouldn't have a clue what to do with it. but some can do incredible things. It's your choice.

Lucid dreaming is an incredible tool that you can use to completely shape your subconscious. As the person above me said, it could potentially be used to unlock abilities that only savants and few other people around the world are known to have. Considering that every human's brain structure is nearly identical, theoretically we could unlock any possible state of consciousness from within a lucid dream. This is what fascinates me so much about lucid dreams.

edit: To answer your question, I think that if lucid dreaming were to go mainstream, it would have a massive effect on society. It would have a substantial effect on the capitalistic economy in particular, since lucid dreaming allows would-be consumers to satisfy their unlimited wants without having to work as hard to obtain the resources to fulfill them.

MindGames - I don't think that it's a tool to change consciousness. Neither will it have any effect on the capitalistic economy.
We already live in an era in which you have countless possibilities for what to do with your spare time. Also great things to do.
Just a few hundred years ago, all you could do was to play soccer, ride a horse, play a board game and such.
But it doesn't change people. The majority of people can't find anything interesting to do with their spare time. Coming back home from work and watch some reality show or some other crap.
I have a very thorough knowledge in human psychology. That's why I say all this.
Lucid dreams are made of memories. They can be amazing ; and an amazing tool; but they can't teach a person something new.

Lucid dreaming certainly can change your subconscious. Why is it that a lucid nightmare can cause someone to develop a temporary fear of something? How do you think people are able to overcome their fears in lucid dreams? How is it that lucid dreamers can change their perspective on anything, including substantially changing one's personality? The fact is that lucid dreams are deeply integrated into our subconscious, and we can use them to change ourselves in ways only previously achievable through hypnosis.

As for the effects on the economy, I can't say for sure that lucid dreaming will cause people to buy things less often. However, in my honest opinion I think that if people have access to anything desire from within their dreams, then they will find that the appeal of material products is lower, given that they have unlimited access to any desired product or experience in their lucid dreams. Granted, this will depend on the frequency of lucid dream occurrences on a per individual basis, but I think that overall economic activity will drop if lucid dreaming goes mainstream, and if people are educated on how to use them to do anything they want.

Good job on having knowledge of human psychology. I, too, understand human psychology, although I do admit that I don't have a degree in the field. I still believe that basic human psychology is able to be understood without requiring a formal education on the subject.


Lucid dreams do consist of past experiences. They also consist of learned and observed behaviors. I'm not going to disagree with that. However, that isn't to say that one is unable to learn something new from within a lucid dream. Take sports or martial arts, for instance. You can practice any physical discipline from within your dreams. In fact, take new ideas into account. New ideas can be formed from within a lucid dream, and one's creative power, as I'm sure you can agree, is substantially higher within a lucid dream. That's just off the top of my head, but other things I can think of include altering one's own behaviors (behavior modification), using the subconscious to increase the activation of certain parts or functions of the brain, learning about and consciously understanding one's own subconscious, etc. At this point in research, the possibilities of lucid dreams are virtually limitless.

MindGames - You have many subjects in your post; and a lot of them aren't really replies to what I said.
I think that the easiest thing for my to do is to sharpen my point some more (if you know what I mean); and hopefully, it will be more clear, what I mean. I will just say generally what I think, without answering anything particular.

What will happen if Lucid Dreaming will go mainstream?
Regarding the GENERAL PUBLIC'S DEVELOPMENT. My prediction - practically no change. And I'm 99% sure of that.
Reasons - there are many GREAT tools that people can use for their development: Buddhism, Taoism, Logical thinking, psychological tools like: Behaviorism, understanding your problem and why psychologically it happens etc'; and so much more knowledge available FOR FREE with an EXTREMELY EASY access.
Does all that and Jesus Christ made any difference? NO!! Humanity still generally suck. Lucid Dreaming won't be different.
Can it be a very good tool to help a PERSON to develop mentally and consciously? Of-course yes. But I already said that in my first post.

It's just one tool of many. Who decides to do something with it - it will help them. Who won't - the tool itself won't make a difference.

Conclusion - Personally - Yes! Generally - NO!
Don't confuse what you personally want to achieve, with the general public's psychology.

That's what Craig asked - how will it effect the world. So that's my answer.

Originally Posted by craig

Since the growing interest, and massive potential. Has anyone come up with any theories as to where this is taking us. I have been doing this for 26yrs. Has anyone considered an application. Obviously we're moving into a collective of high brain functional ablility. Are we un/consciously preparing for something larger, that without control of the other side we could be lost or stuck. Any thoughts throw em' on the table would like to hear...

Okay, here's my thoughts.
I think enlightened humans have been preparing us lately for a different age. I guess for about 2000 years the christians set the path for mankind into the future.
the rest of the world kinda got dragged up in it. Only recently it seems that atheistm really challenged the god theory and is closer to the truth so people stop believing in christ altogether.
This is not limited to christianity.. Atheism is global and so does it affect the islam and other religions.

Since it seems that industrial china is getting more power by the day in terms of money and i think i saw some fancy graph somewhere that by 2025 or something china will be the biggest economical force on the planet. Other countries in the east seem to be growing aswell.
So if the east is rising in power its culture should rise with it. And that opens doors to possibilities that don't fit into the bible or the islam. I think that's what all this fuzz is really about between these religious institutions. They realize their not in charge anymore and start to see threats in other institutions.

so.. dreaming might help in this transition to accept other cultures into their lifes by exploring what they are really about. Because, if dreaming is like the naked you. Without something distracting you or a crazy world bombing cities and people for profit.
Then dreaming is the perfect tool to learn what you want and how you really want your life to be. And i think that might help in letting go of your believes and seeing for yourself what the world is really about. And maybe it turns out life has spiritual meaning. Just something you can't find in a book or on the TV.

"if dreaming is like the naked you"
It's not. Dreaming is like free association imagination, without the conscious interference (except LDs).
Imagination is, memories (including the person's believes) putt together in other ways (like Lego... kinda).
If a person is a believer - there's a big chance that he'll have dreams supporting his belief. Sometimes religious people don't really believe subconsciously. In that case - they might find themselves face to face with their real belief.
A lot of people have contradictions between different parts of their consciousness and belief systems. Dreams and Lucid Dreams maybe can help a person to be more whole; but it defends on what he initially believes in.

"i think i saw some fancy graph somewhere that by 2025 or something china will be the biggest economical force on the planet."
Don't forget the principle of the tendency of systems to stabilize. Things don't grow forever. The graph probably didn't take this into consideration.

"Only recently it seems that atheistm really challenged the god theory and is closer to the truth so people stop believing in christ altogether."
There is no "God theory"; not a scientific one; so it cannot be challenged. Science doesn't need to disprove the idea of god; but you can do that if you'll look enough; easily. You could do that a long time ago. Philosophically - even centuries ago.
People won't stop believing because of a logical disprove; they don't thing logically, if they would - they wouldn't believe. A belief contradicts logic.