Examining the Effects of Meditation While Lucid Dreaming

Hello, my name is Chris and I am a student at the University of Texas at Dallas.
I am doing a project to examine the effects of meditation from within lucid dreams. While the general impact that meditation might have on lucid dreaming has been studied, to my knowledge, the effects of meditation from within lucid dreams has not.

I intend to gather 20 participants, ages 18+, who consider themselves frequent lucid dreamers. For the purpose of this study, I will consider "frequent" lucid dreamers to be individuals who, on average, have at least 1 lucid dream per week. A consent information form is attached to this post, but no confidential or sensitive information will be collected. This is provided for your benefit, and contains information about your rights and details of the study.

For this study, I am asking participants to lucid dream on two separate nights. Because lucid dreams do not always occur when we desire them to, I am collecting data for this experiment over the course of 2 weeks to allow ample time for at least 2 lucid dreams to occur.

Procedure:
The first night that you have a lucid dream, please carry on as you normally would, but do not meditate from within your dream. As soon as you are able once you wake up, please answer the questions provided below.

Next, on a separate night, attempt to meditate from within your lucid dream. For this "meditation", attempt to focus your awareness on the fact that you are dreaming, and that all of your senses are simulations rather than actual sensory input. From within this dream, your perceived eyes may be open or closed, whichever you prefer (by perceived eyes, I mean the eyes that you are "using" within your dream, instead of your physical eyes which are closed while you are sleeping). If you feel yourself slipping out of lucidity or your dream during this process, it might be helpful to imagine the continuation of your current dream scenario, or to imagine a new one entirely if you desire. Once you wake up, please answer questions #4-7 provided below again.

Questions
1. Do you provide consent to participate in this study? (A consent information form is attached. No personally identifiable information will be collected in this study)

2. What is your age?

3. What is your biological gender? You may answer as anonymous or undisclosed if you do not wish to provide this information.

4. How many lucid dreams did you have during your last sleep period?

5. How long do you estimate that you were lucid dreaming? If you had multiple lucid dreams, please attempt to answer this for each dream. (Example: First dream - 10 minutes, second dream - 15 minutes...)

6. Did you meditate, as described above, from within any of these dreams? If so, which ones? (First dream, third dream, etc.)

7. From within this/ these dream[s], did you have awareness that you were dreaming, control of your own actions, control of the actions of others or of the environment, or a combination of these? Please state all that apply.

*Optional* Did you observe any effects of meditation from within your lucid dream[s] that was not covered in the questions above?


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________

I would like to thank every individual who takes the time to participate in this study. Feel free to message me with any questions or comments you may have. You may send the results of your participation directly to my inbox, or post them publicly here. The results of this experiment will be shared in this forum after the analysis of data is complete!

Cool, I love to meditate in a lucid dream. The interesting thing is that I can't meditate in waking life. When I try to meditate in waking, I feel no benefits, not at all. I think it's becuase I can't profoundly relax and unwind my mind, BUT in a lucid dream, meditation does work great!

I'm in :)

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Originally Posted by Nfri

Cool, I love to meditate in a lucid dream. The interesting thing is that I can't meditate in waking life. When I try to meditate in waking, I feel no benefits, not at all. I think it's becuase I can't profoundly relax and unwind my mind, BUT in a lucid dream, meditation does work great!

I'm in :)

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I don't mean to derail this thread, but I would like to present some ideas that I believe could be helpful in light of your comments about meditation.

Meditation is part of a path of self discovery and disillusionment that requires a lifetime of dedication. It is not a quick fix for one's problems, tensions, or unruly mental activities. The states of tranquility and insight that are the commonly desired goals of meditation are gradually developed over time with consistent practice.

Most meditators spend weeks, months, even years dealing with the constantly arising defilements of the mind. This is where we all must start. However, just because one has an overactive mind doesn't mean one cannot meditate. One of the main goals of meditation is to train the mind to let go of attachments, aversions, and delusions, bringing it into a state of calm and peace in which insights about one's true nature can arise untainted by the mind's usual disorderly activity. This is done with mindfulness and skillful effort.

That being said, when a meditator experiences a nonstop influx of mental distractions and hinderances, this is not necessarily a "bad" meditation. It is only a "bad" meditation if one does not remain mindful of the activity of one's mind and resilient in one's skillfully-directed efforts in the meditation. Otherwise, it is simply a "busy" meditation, which is sometimes the best kind of meditation, as it brings the meditator's deep seated defilements to light and allows one to do the work necessary to rid oneself of these defilements. The more time one spends in meditation mindful and skillfully dealing with the hinderances of the mind, the weaker these defilements become until eventually they no longer exist. But it is a long term path with gradual results which parallel the time and skillful effort put it.

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Originally Posted by Nfri

Cool, I love to meditate in a lucid dream. The interesting thing is that I can't meditate in waking life. When I try to meditate in waking, I feel no benefits, not at all. I think it's becuase I can't profoundly relax and unwind my mind, BUT in a lucid dream, meditation does work great!

I'm in :)

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Thank you! Just 19 more participants to go. Please begin whenever you can achieve your next lucid session, and again I appreciate your participation.

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Originally Posted by VinceField

I don't mean to derail this thread, but I would like to present some ideas that I believe could be helpful in light of your comments about meditation.

Meditation is part of a path of self discovery and disillusionment that requires a lifetime of dedication. It is not a quick fix for one's problems, tensions, or unruly mental activities. The states of tranquility and insight that are the commonly desired goals of meditation are gradually developed over time with consistent practice.

Most meditators spend weeks, months, even years dealing with the constantly arising defilements of the mind. This is where we all must start. However, just because one has an overactive mind doesn't mean one cannot meditate. One of the main goals of meditation is to train the mind to let go of attachments, aversions, and delusions, bringing it into a state of calm and peace in which insights about one's true nature can arise untainted by the mind's usual disorderly activity. This is done with mindfulness and skillful effort.

That being said, when a meditator experiences a nonstop influx of mental distractions and hinderances, this is not necessarily a "bad" meditation. It is only a "bad" meditation if one does not remain mindful of the activity of one's mind and resilient in one's skillfully-directed efforts in the meditation. Otherwise, it is simply a "busy" meditation, which is sometimes the best kind of meditation, as it brings the meditator's deep seated defilements to light and allows one to do the work necessary to rid oneself of these defilements. The more time one spends in meditation mindful and skillfully dealing with the hinderances of the mind, the weaker these defilements become until eventually they no longer exist. But it is a long term path with gradual results which parallel the time and skillful effort put it.

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While this may be true for those wishing to master meditation, that is not the goal of this study. The basic form of "meditation" I described in my first post is sufficient for what I am researching.

I welcome your participation, but please keep all posts in this thread relevant to this study. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by cbruffin

While this may be true for those wishing to master meditation, that is not the goal of this study. The basic form of "meditation" I described in my first post is sufficient for what I am researching.

I welcome your participation, but please keep all posts in this thread relevant to this study. Thanks!

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I understand your focus here is on your study. However, my focus is on helping others, and thus I choose to do this over adhering to any imposed rules that that would otherwise limit or restrict my ability to reach out to anyone in need of assistance.

Although my post did not address your study directly, it does relate to it in an important way, as it draws attention to the nature of meditation in its ability to affect change in the practitioner. As I pointed out, it is a path, not a quick fix, and it's effects are accumulated over time. This may have some relation to the possible effects of meditating in a lucid dream as well, especially in terms of the after effects it may have on the meditator.

From experience, I know that meditating within a lucid dream is far more of an enlightening experience in a momentary sense, but as far as any lasting effects from these temporarily transcendental meditations, I have observed very little if any changes in my own life, other than a slight shift in perspective and views regarding self and reality arising from the insights and knowledge gained from the experiences.

My post also points to potential problems that may arise due to participants having distorted ideas of what meditation is or the inability to properly meditate. Perhaps comparing the experiences of the participants' meditations in waking reality to their experiences of meditating in a lucid dream would provide important insight into the nature of these experiences in how they relate to the individual's ability to normally meditate, as well as providing a degree of input as to their state of mind, as this is reflected in the nature of their experiences in regular meditation.

^^ So, then, this study would be more valid for you if it were limited to experienced LD'ers who are also experienced practitioners of meditation? Hmm.

Respectfully, CBRuffin, that makes sense to me, as well. I know none of this is directly relevant to your OP, but it does seem to have merit... you do want the results of your experiment to reflect actual meditation done by qualified subjects, don't you, and not just a sort of simulated meditation done by certainly well-meaning subjects who are simply doing what they assume, or have been briefly told, is meditation?

This is your thread, and your study, CBRuffin, but I think Vince's point is worth considering.

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Originally Posted by VinceField

I understand your focus here is on your study. However, my focus is on helping others, and thus I choose to do this over adhering to any imposed rules that that would otherwise limit or restrict my ability to reach out to anyone in need of assistance.

Although my post did not address your study directly, it does relate to it in an important way, as it draws attention to the nature of meditation in its ability to affect change in the practitioner. As I pointed out, it is a path, not a quick fix, and it's effects are accumulated over time. This may have some relation to the possible effects of meditating in a lucid dream as well, especially in terms of the after effects it may have on the meditator.

From experience, I know that meditating within a lucid dream is far more of an enlightening experience in a momentary sense, but as far as any lasting effects from these temporarily transcendental meditations, I have observed very little if any changes in my own life, other than a slight shift in perspective and views regarding self and reality arising from the insights and knowledge gained from the experiences.

My post also points to potential problems that may arise due to participants having distorted ideas of what meditation is or the inability to properly meditate. Perhaps comparing the experiences of the participants' meditations in waking reality to their experiences of meditating in a lucid dream would provide important insight into the nature of these experiences in how they relate to the individual's ability to normally meditate, as well as providing a degree of input as to their state of mind, as this is reflected in the nature of their experiences in regular meditation.

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VinceField. I understand you want to help people. This is a thread focused on a specific study, and the very basic definition of meditation I gave is sufficient. This is not a discussion thread, and I encourage you to discuss your points in another thread outside of the research section. My study is a preliminary study that may pave the way for more in depth research in the future. Those experienced in meditation are quite welcome in this study, but even those with no experience are welcome. My simple definition of meditation could be compared to cognitive mindfulness, relaxation, and visualization practices, as meditation is a very large scope without being further defined. The definition I gave for the purpose of this study is sufficient. I feel if this thread continues to be derailed, I will need to start it over, as you are encouraging discussion of your ideas and not participation in this study. This experiment is both important as a preliminary study for my research community, and it is necessary for me to move on to graduate school.

PLEASE KEEP ALL FURTHER POSTS ON TOPIC! You may private message me or the other users in this thread if you wish to discuss your ideas or help them with meditation, or create your own thread. Thank you!

^^ My post was on topic, I think. But okay. It's your thread, and your study. Enjoy.

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Originally Posted by cbruffin

PLEASE KEEP ALL FURTHER POSTS ON TOPIC! You may private message me or the other users in this thread if you wish to discuss your ideas or help them with meditation, or create your own thread. Thank you!

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No problem buddy.

From what I gathered from the introduction of your initial post, the purpose of this study is to discern the nature and effects of meditation from within a lucid dream. If I am correct in this assumption, I believe that your approach could be improved, especially regarding the questionnaire.

For example, only the optional question (*Optional* Did you observe any effects of meditation from within your lucid dream[s] that was not covered in the questions above?) actually addresses the purpose of the study. None of the other questions seem to address what the actual meditation experience was like during the lucid dream or what its effects were.

This is where comparing the experience of meditation during waking reality would come in handy, as it would provide the grounds for comparisons with the lucid dream meditation experience.

Perhaps including direct questions about what the LD meditation experience was like would help produce more useful data. I have other suggestions but I'll just leave it at that for now. I think a slight change in approach could really help your study. Either way, good luck with it.

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Originally Posted by VinceField

This is where comparing the experience of meditation during waking reality would come in handy, as it would provide the grounds for comparisons with the lucid dream meditation experience.

Perhaps including direct questions about what the LD meditation experience was like would help produce more useful data. I have other suggestions but I'll just leave it at that for now. I think a slight change in approach could really help your study. Either way, good luck with it.

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This is what I intended originally, but that will have to be done in a future followup study, as requested by my department. This study is comparing lucidity with no mindfulness interventions, with lucidity involving this intervention. Thanks again for your interest. I also would very much appreciate your participation and insight in this study if you have time! :)

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Originally Posted by cbruffin

This is what I intended originally, but that will have to be done in a future followup study, as requested by my department. This study is comparing lucidity with no mindfulness interventions, with lucidity involving this intervention. Thanks again for your interest. I also would very much appreciate your participation and insight in this study if you have time! :)

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Absolutely, it was actually my intention to participate from the moment I learned about your study. I usually have at least one lucid dream per week, so you will probably be hearing from me sometime soon. :)

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Originally Posted by cbruffin

VinceField. I understand you want to help people. ...This is not a discussion thread, and I encourage you to discuss your points in another thread...The definition I gave for the purpose of this study is sufficient.

I feel if this thread continues to be derailed, I will need to start it over, as you are encouraging discussion of your ideas and not participation in this study. This experiment is both important as a preliminary study for my research community, and it is necessary for me to move on to graduate school.

PLEASE KEEP ALL FURTHER POSTS ON TOPIC! You may private message me or the other users in this thread if you wish to discuss your ideas or help them with meditation, or create your own thread. Thank you!

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Ok, let's slow down for a bit please.

You came here to our forum to ask for our help. (Without asking staff for permission.) You have recieved replies from two incredibly knowledgable and skilled LDers and practitioners of dreaming and related arts. They are giving you advice on how to make you survey better. Do you know what people do with surveys they don't feel have the right questions or answers? They don't do them.

Little more respect and appreciation would go a long way.

1. Yes

2. 22

3. Undisclosed

4. 3

5. the first ld: < 5 minutes, the second ld: < 15 minutes, the third ld: <30 minutes

6. the third ld

7. I was aware that I'm dreaming, I had control over my own actions, but I had very limited control over the action of DCs and the enviroment, that's tricky business sometimes

8. greater vividness of the dream

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Originally Posted by gab

Little more respect and appreciation would go a long way.

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I am sorry,I did not mean to come across as rude or disrespectful. Everyone has made excellent points concerning this study, however I am looking at something slightly different than might be assumed. Please bear with me, it will make more sense once the results are published. :) And again, thank you everyone for your time, thoughtful contributions, and participation.

Nfri,

Thank you very much! If you get a chance, could you attempt to do this again one night without meditating during any dreams, and another night, meditating in as many as you remember to? If not, or if you are able to only partially do this, I am still very appreciative of your participation.

Needing many more participants! If you have time, please join my study and help me graduate/ help all of us learn more about the topic. :D

First night of experiment:

1. Do you provide consent to participate in this study? (A consent information form is attached. No personally identifiable information will be collected in this study)

No. Just kidding.

2. What is your age?

28 earth years.

3. What is your biological gender? You may answer as anonymous or undisclosed if you do not wish to provide this information.

Male.

4. How many lucid dreams did you have during your last sleep period?

One.

5. How long do you estimate that you were lucid dreaming? If you had multiple lucid dreams, please attempt to answer this for each dream. (Example: First dream - 10 minutes, second dream - 15 minutes...)

5 minutes

6. Did you meditate, as described above, from within any of these dreams? If so, which ones? (First dream, third dream, etc.)

No, as per the instructions.

7. From within this/ these dream[s], did you have awareness that you were dreaming, control of your own actions, control of the actions of others or of the environment, or a combination of these? Please state all that apply.

Yes- awareness that I was dreaming, control of my actions, influence on environment and the nature of the experience.

*Optional* Did you observe any effects of meditation from within your lucid dream[s] that was not covered in the questions above?

Not applicable.


Next night of experiment (not consecutive with first):

1. Do you provide consent to participate in this study? (A consent information form is attached. No personally identifiable information will be collected in this study)

Fiiiiine....

2. What is your age?

2 days older than my last answer to this question

3. What is your biological gender? You may answer as anonymous or undisclosed if you do not wish to provide this information.

Still male.

4. How many lucid dreams did you have during your last sleep period?

One.

5. How long do you estimate that you were lucid dreaming? If you had multiple lucid dreams, please attempt to answer this for each dream. (Example: First dream - 10 minutes, second dream - 15 minutes...)

One minute.

6. Did you meditate, as described above, from within any of these dreams? If so, which ones? (First dream, third dream, etc.)

Yes.

7. From within this/ these dream[s], did you have awareness that you were dreaming, control of your own actions, control of the actions of others or of the environment, or a combination of these? Please state all that apply.

Yes- awareness that I was dreaming, control of my actions, influence on environment/experience.

*Optional* Did you observe any effects of meditation from within your lucid dream[s] that was not covered in the questions above?

Being that no effects pertaining to meditating in the lucid dream were covered in any of the questions above, yes.

Firstly, I did not meditate in the manner that was explained in the instructions..."attempt to focus your awareness on the fact that you are dreaming, and that all of your senses are simulations rather than actual sensory input." I did not want this false assumption to create a mentally fabricated experience.

Rather, I closed off my visual senses and focused my awareness on the energetic sensations that I felt within me. My awareness was almost instantly expanded internally and I was overcome by a feeling of bliss. It was not an high-energy ecstatic state, but rather a calm and collected one, although there was a subtle element of excitement present. I felt a deep connection with a higher power and I experienced myself to be one with it. This higher power within me was the source of the ecstasy that was coursing through me. The bliss grew stronger until it passed my tolerance level. I could no longer maintain my state of awareness within that reality and I woke up. A pleasant buzzing sensation ran through my insides for a minute or so after awaking, fading away as time passed until it was gone.

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Originally Posted by VinceField

*Optional* Did you observe any effects of meditation from within your lucid dream[s] that was not covered in the questions above?

Being that no effects pertaining to meditating in the lucid dream were covered in any of the questions above, yes.

Firstly, I did not meditate in the manner that was explained in the instructions..."attempt to focus your awareness on the fact that you are dreaming, and that all of your senses are simulations rather than actual sensory input." I did not want this false assumption to create a mentally fabricated experience.

Rather, I closed off my visual senses and focused my awareness on the energetic sensations that I felt within me. My awareness was almost instantly expanded internally and I was overcome by a feeling of bliss. It was not an high-energy ecstatic state, but rather a calm and collected one, although there was a subtle element of excitement present. I felt a deep connection with a higher power and I experienced myself to be one with it. This higher power within me was the source of the ecstasy that was coursing through me. The bliss grew stronger until it passed my tolerance level. I could no longer maintain my state of awareness within that reality and I woke up. A pleasant buzzing sensation ran through my insides for a minute or so after awaking, fading away as time passed until it was gone.

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Awesome! The questions before were related to duration changes in lucidity presumably due to meditation. However this feedback is excellent, and very useful. Your meditation ability sounds more advanced than that which I would expect from the average participant, and I did not want to limit my sample to an even rarer group than it is already limited to. I am thrilled with this feedback, and thank you very much for your participation!

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Originally Posted by cbruffin

Awesome! The questions before were related to duration changes in lucidity presumably due to meditation. However this feedback is excellent, and very useful. Your meditation ability sounds more advanced than that which I would expect from the average participant, and I did not want to limit my sample to an even rarer group than it is already limited to. I am thrilled with this feedback, and thank you very much for your participation!

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Gotcha, yeah I figured that you were comparing the duration and awareness/control faculties of the two experiences.

The thing is, there are factors that contribute to the length, quality, and control of the LD that should be accounted for to gain an accurate sense of the causes and correlations at play. Factors such as overall mindfulness and the quality of momentary awareness, one's intention and purpose for the experience, one's level of experience and development of consciousness in nonphysical realities, and one's course of action during the experience can all influence the nature of the LD independent of whether one includes a meditation session during the experience.

Meditating during a LD can bring about a shift in consciousness to higher levels of awareness, but it is not necessarily a lasting one. One can meditate during their lucid dream and have an extremely vivid and intense but short experience, but one can also meditate during the LD and go on to have a lengthy and mediocre experience. Because of the other factors at play, the meditation will not necessarily effect the course of the experience after the meditation.

The length of the meditation period is also an important factor to consider. I have found that frequent brief periods of reflection are far more helpful at lengthening the LD than is a longer meditative state, although deeper meditative experiences tend to give rise to more transcendental experiences.

I would include questions regarding all of these factors to gain better quality data and to increase the likelihood of arriving at an accurate conclusion.

Anyway, glad to have helped buddy. Take care.


Edit: I forgot to include this point in my original post. I would expect a study of the effects of meditation during a lucid dream to focus mainly on the nature of the meditative experience itself and the insights that it brings, especially compared with normal waking meditation, rather than its influence on the duration or quality of the lucid dream as a whole, due to the other factors that I have mentioned which render the meditative experience factor rather insignificant when looking at the length, quality and control levels of the LD.

Just an idea to make the study more relevant.

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Originally Posted by VinceField

I would expect a study of the effects of meditation during a lucid dream to focus mainly on the nature of the meditative experience itself and the insights that it brings, especially compared with normal waking meditation, rather than its influence on the duration or quality of the lucid dream as a whole, due to the other factors that I have mentioned which render the meditative experience factor rather insignificant when looking at the length, quality and control levels of the LD.

Just an idea to make the study more relevant.

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This was my intention, but my faculty sponsor requested that for this preliminary study, I modify it as I have done. But everything you have said is valid. :)

Needing more participants still, please join if you are able to! Thanks

FIRST DREAM

1. Do you provide consent to participate in this study? (A consent information form is attached. No personally identifiable information will be collected in this study)

yes

2. What is your age?

28

3. What is your biological gender? You may answer as anonymous or undisclosed if you do not wish to provide this information.

male

4. How many lucid dreams did you have during your first sleep period?

1

5. How long do you estimate that you were lucid dreaming? If you had multiple lucid dreams, please attempt to answer this for each dream. (Example: First dream - 10 minutes, second dream - 15 minutes...)

30 minutes - 1 hr

6. Did you meditate, as described above, from within any of these dreams? If so, which ones? (First dream, third dream, etc.)

not the first time

7. From within this/ these dream[s], did you have awareness that you were dreaming, control of your own actions, control of the actions of others or of the environment, or a combination of these? Please state all that apply.

i had control of my actions, knew the thought process of others in the dream but not control over their actions, small degree of control over the environment

SECOND DREAM

1. Do you provide consent to participate in this study? (A consent information form is attached. No personally identifiable information will be collected in this study)

yes

2. What is your age?

28

3. What is your biological gender? You may answer as anonymous or undisclosed if you do not wish to provide this information.

male

4. How many lucid dreams did you have during your last sleep period?

1

5. How long do you estimate that you were lucid dreaming? If you had multiple lucid dreams, please attempt to answer this for each dream. (Example: First dream - 10 minutes, second dream - 15 minutes...)

30 - 45 minutes

6. Did you meditate, as described above, from within any of these dreams? If so, which ones? (First dream, third dream, etc.)

yes, the one.

7. From within this/ these dream[s], did you have awareness that you were dreaming, control of your own actions, control of the actions of others or of the environment, or a combination of these? Please state all that apply.

I had control over my actions, was able to erase other people and the environment from my dream.

*Optional* Did you observe any effects of meditation from within your lucid dream[s] that was not covered in the questions above?

while meditating in the dream I was able to isolate my dream self from everything else and became increasingly aware of my actual self. I eventually lost awareness of both my actual and dream self and drifted into a complete blackness that eventually faded back into normal dreaming. How long the darkness lasted I am not exactly sure, it did not seem like very long though.