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Me and Gothlark have had shared dreams a couple of times. Such as the arch. My dream recall SUCKED. In fact all i remember IS the part with the arch and two others.
Theon i do remember is when we met a constanine DC on a Train that was like a subway. I dont remember to much of it either. (had 2 other dreams afterwards so its justified.)
Here's the trial formula I came up with to quantify the degree to which two dreams are alike.
http://solarwinds.port5.com/G2/DV/SD%20formula.jpg
By using a ratio of elements shared over elements remembered, we're not penalizing those people who don't have great recall. Someone who remembers 5 distinct dream elements, two of which coincide with their partner's dream will score the same as someone who remembers 10 elements and has 4 in common. I struggled with whether to do it this way since having more total elements in common would be more significant, but basing the score only on the absolute numbered of shared elements would require us to find participants who have approximately the same recall for details.
The shared foci term is a weighted multiplier. For each dream, the reviewer will pick out the 3 most important foci (ex. setting, main DCs, major events, etc). There will likely be some disagreement among reviewers as to what qualifies as a foci, but that's what the summation is for. The point of the multiplier is that some dream elements are more important than others. For example, if one person dreams of a tornado sweeping across a grassy plain to destroy a town, their partner also dreaming of a tornado or the destruction of a town would be more significant than the partner dreaming of a peaceful field or waving plain of grain.
To get the total score, just add up the reviewers' scores. Each person will have their own total score, so to get the pair's score, add the summed reviewers' scores. Like I said, that's a rough trial formula. If anyone can think of some changes that need to be made, new variables that need to be taken into account, etc., let me know and I'll try to fix them. Also, I understand that separating and counting separate dream elements could be time consuming and tedious, so if anyone can think of an alternative, I'll be happy to consider it.
Dream me up!
The experimental aspect of this project seems to be progressing well, but I haven't seen much work on possible theoretical support. It's all been sporadic anecdotes up to this point. Does anyone know of serious scientific work that's been done on shared dreaming/telepathy/whatever else might serve as a possible mechanism if shared dreaming exists? There are a lot of hoakie "Teach yourself to be psychic in 10 days or your money back!" sites out there, but I'm wondering if there's any reputable research or organizations in this field. The works from credible sources that I've come across have all been skeptical or disbelieving.
I am not sure what it was exactly called. The government felt that this topic held enough merit to warrent a study of it. (Ofcoarse they will spend money on anything.)Quote:
Originally posted by Peregrinus
The experimental aspect of this project seems to be progressing well, but I haven't seen much work on possible theoretical support. It's all been sporadic anecdotes up to this point. Does anyone know of serious scientific work that's been done on shared dreaming/telepathy/whatever else might serve as a possible mechanism if shared dreaming exists? There are a lot of hoakie \"Teach yourself to be psychic in 10 days or your money back!\" sites out there, but I'm wondering if there's any reputable research or organizations in this field. The works from credible sources that I've come across have all been skeptical or disbelieving.
But I can't seem to locate anything directly on it.
It was something in the order of remote distant viewing, far distance viewing. I can't remember.
But if anyone knows what the hell I am talking about please be so knid as to point us in that direction.
I am not sure I follow your Formula Peregrinus. I think it was over my head. Maybe if I come back to it later and read it again. :P
Howetzer, you're thinking of Remote Veiwing. Interesting stuff. They had a team of remote veiwers that they used and were successful in telling the government where lost parts were many times and once pointed them to the spot where a prisoner of war was. Maybe more than once. Or at least this is what I understand.
Thanks Gothlark. I thougth I was close. I will try to dig up some info on that!Quote:
Originally posted by Gothlark
Howetzer, you're thinking of Remote Veiwing. Interesting stuff. They had a team of remote veiwers that they used and were successful in telling the government where lost parts were many times and once pointed them to the spot where a prisoner of war was. Maybe more than once. Or at least this is what I understand.
No problem, Jason. I love to help. :) I know there have been alot of shows that have aired about the project. I'm surprised that it's public knowledge. It must have caused quite a bit of contraversy unless it's a bunch of crap made up by TV shows. :P So I doubt you'll have too much trouble finding info so long as it actually happened.
I just took my time to read this whole thread and get a feel of where things are. This is certainly very intresting, and I'm very much an "oustider" to this experiment right now. Still, a couple things I think should be reiterated to keep them fresh in your mind:
People like this are at a premium however, so you'll probably - almost defintely - have to compromise this.Quote:
Originally posted by Peregrinus
If possible, you want skeptical people-- not true believers and not firm doubters, because members of either of those groups would be more likely to, um, \"edit\" their results.
Have you considered using a "password" to help verify the actual shared dream taking place/being real. For example, the 3rd party member overseeing the two paticular people tells one of the two people in the experiment (sender/receiver, doesn't matter) a word that they must try their best to communicate to the other person when they "establish contact" in these dreams. For this example, let's make it "cat". So, when this person meets the other one in the dream, they should scream it, make pictures of it, write it down, tell them it, etc.
The other person should try their best to see what word they are trying to communicate. Then, both parties wake up, and the person trying to get the word PMs the 3rd party with the word (perhaps words) that they think was trying to be said.
I think this would be pretty useful and clear-cut. If the person is using 100% of their power to get this word across in the dream, it should get across to the person. It shouldn't be too hard to get it across anyway.
So, our guy tells the 3rd party he thought the word was "cat". This would show that, that experiment at least, was pretty much a positive and such. You'd obviously repeat experiments like this to get some consistent results, however. And the 3rd party guy could take it from there. The password technique would obviously rely on honesty between the test subjects - ie: not revealing the word. I suppose you could try more than one technique over time, that would be intresting.
Yeah, I've considered the whole password thing and intend to try it. I kind of forgot about it last night, though. I forgot it before I ever went to bed, though. I'll try to remember for tonight's LD, I guess. I'll arrange it with some other forum members. Chances are that lucidnina will be the target and Howetzer will be the third party. Though I still have to arrange that.
A password?! Why didn't I think of that? I got too busy trying to come up with a nifty little math formula and forgot about the utility of common sense, I guess. But that's a great idea. I think we could expand it if we used two different passwords and gave one to each of the participants. That way, whichever person goes lucid (the "sender"?) will have a signal. Damn, that's so simple *wanders off grumbling* couldn\'t even think of a simple thing like a password... rkfrk...karkifrk
That is a great idea. The exchange of something.
But I would like to add that it seems evident to most of us, maybe not you Gothlark, that numbers are a difficult medium to aquant yourself with while lucid.
If you believe this to be the best way then I am all for it.
But if there was another "excange" that could be used other than a right brian mechanism, I feel it would be more easily ........uuuummm, transferable? :P
A name, color I don't know.
Sorry I had to go into Edit to see what you said, hahhah :laughhard:
Don't beat your self up Peregrinus! Your more articulate formula may come in handy at some point.Quote:
couldn't even think of a simple thing like a password... rkfrk...karkifrk[/b]
Yeah, I didn't mean a number password. I meant something more abstract that you could easily understand in a dream, like an object. Tell them what the object is and show it to them aswell. Mind you, I can do the numbers thing in dreams. :wink:
Having looked back over what you and Peregrinus posted I have know idea where I even got the idea in my head that you meant numbers. No one had said numbers!? :huh: hence passWORD.Quote:
Originally posted by Gothlark
Yeah, I didn't mean a number password. I meant something more abstract that you could easily understand in a dream, like an object. Tell them what the object is and show it to them aswell. Mind you, I can do the numbers thing in dreams. :wink:
:P
I was thinking something visual, as was suggested earlier, rather than simply a name or arbitrary word. The animal idea was a good one. And I, too, have had number dreams. I had a lucid back in high school where I conquered a city block sized calculus assignment. What was unnerving was that the calculus actually made sense. Too bad I didn't just sit down and work out the problems-- it might have made doing them the next day a bit easier.
I agree that is should be something visual rather than a world or number. Just my 2 cents. ;) I'm just a very visual person.
I think it should be expressed in several mediums as Kaniaz suggested. I plan to try visual and audio expression of the word. I think that should work rather well.
Hey guys, I've had several shared lucid dreams as well. I can share those experiences if you like.
The password Idea is great, it will definantly get rid of uneccessary variables. My suggestion is to find something people don't commonly dream about, so you don't have two people dreaming about something just because it comes up often.
Another thing is in my experience, shared dreams don't have to happen on the same day and are not distance bound. The people I shared dreams with were in Texas and I was California and one happened a few days apart. Distance/Time should not be factors in this experiement, but just side notes.
Another thing is, in my experience, I was the only one who needed to concentrate on finding the person, they just needed to be open to it and remember their dreams. In one dream, I actually caused the person to become lucid, by telling them it was a dream.
I think good password examples would be random crap like: a giant lamp, a webcam, a song, a certain color, or phrase.
-Daniel
Then how exactly is that \"sharing\" the dream? Wouldn't that simply be dreaming about the same thing at different times? Eventually, people are bound to dream about the same subject matter at different times, especially if those people share similar experiences in waking life (for example, family members, significant others).Quote:
Originally posted by Syntex
[color=darkblue]Another thing is in my experience, shared dreams don't have to happen on the same day and are not distance bound. The people I shared dreams with were in Texas and I was California and one happened a few days apart. Distance/Time should not be factors in this experiement, but just side notes.
Yeah, as you can see, we've had a bit of discussion about whether the sender/receiver model is accurate. It'll be interesting to see if this experiment actually turns out.Quote:
Another thing is, in my experience, I was the only one who needed to concentrate on finding the person, they just needed to be open to it and remember their dreams.[/b]
I think visuals are more easily remembered by most people than sounds, but it would be worth a try to see if certain sensory categories of pass"words" (i.e. visual, auditory, olfactory, etc) are more effective than others.Quote:
I think good password examples would be random crap like: a giant lamp, a webcam, a song, a certain color, or phrase.[/b]
[quote]Then how exactly is that "sharing" the dream? Wouldn't that simply be dreaming about the same thing at different times? Eventually, people are bound to dream about the same subject matter at different times, especially if those people share similar experiences in waking life (for example, family members, significant others).Quote:
[color=darkblue]Another thing is in my experience, shared dreams don't have to happen on the same day and are not distance bound. The people I shared dreams with were in Texas and I was California and one happened a few days apart. Distance/Time should not be factors in this experiement, but just side notes.
Well these experiences we're unique enough to where several years would be needed for them to even come close to a similar experience just because of the passing of time. It was within a few days, which is still significant. I mean it wasn't just like he dreamed of an apple and so did I. We actually encountered each other, and everything was in alignment. In others that I simply dreamed of the same stuff, it was the same day.
I'm just saying don't limit the crossreferencing of dreams to the same day only, you might find some more interesting connections. You can factor it in as making it less significant, but don't throw it away as impossible.
Also as for the password, yes go with something visual, I'm just saying, lets make it as random as possible and something that wouldn't normally occure in a dream.
Have we got any volunteers yet? I'll be a "reciever" if you want.
-Daniel
Nice to have your participation Syntex.
Is the reason for this so to eliminate the possibilty of it being a coencedence?Quote:
Originally posted by Syntex
Also as for the password, yes go with something visual, I'm just saying, lets make it as random as possible and something that wouldn't normally occure in a dream.
Gothlark also mentions the fact that an occurance does not necessarily have to happen ot the same time.
This makes one wonder about time and how time and thought correspond with each other.
Are your thoughts or my thoughts floating around on some plain waiting to get intercepted by somenoe else. :P And if that is the case what are the probabilties of you or me being the correspondence?
Yes, exactly, I want to eliminate the possibility of it being coencedence as much as possible.Quote:
Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>Quote:
Nice to have your participation Syntex.
<!--QuoteBegin-Syntex
Is the reason for this so to eliminate the possibilty of it being a coencednce?Quote:
Also as for the password, yes go with something visual, I'm just saying, lets make it as random as possible and something that wouldn't normally occure in a dream.
Gothlark also mentions the fact that an occurance does not necessarily have to happen ot the same time.
This makes one wonder about time and how time and thought correspond with each other.
Are your thoughts or my thoughts floating around on some plain waiting to get intercepted by somenoe else. :P And if that is the case what are the probabilties of you or me being the correspondence?[/b]
Also as for time and thoughts and stuff... thats way too much for me to speculate on, I have no idea how its possible... but in my experience, it's seemed that way. My only explaination is that we dream the same dream (one of us on one night and the other a few nights later),because maybe we save that dream for later, recieve it, just experience it at a later date?
Otherwise I'm confused, it's too much for me to think about, its like asking, " how does existance exist and what started it? and if it was always here, how is that possible???"
Also do we have anyone organizing all these ideas and setting up this experiment?
-Daniel
Quote:
Originally posted by Syntex
Also as for time and thoughts and stuff... thats way too much for me to speculate on, I have no idea how its possible... but in my experience, it's seemed that way. My only explaination is that we dream the same dream (one of us on one night and the other a few nights later),because maybe we
Otherwise I'm confused, it's too much for me to think about, its like asking, \" how does existance exist and what started it? and if it was always here, how is that possible???\"
I here you. For me it is difficult because to try and understand something in my own head I need to put things in place that are seemingly missing. They may in fact not even be important. But who is to say. Either way it can fry your brain.
If you look Daniel back at the other 2000 posts :P you can see we have been trying, in between the arising questions, to put something in the works.Quote:
Also do we have anyone organizing all these ideas and setting up this experiment?[/b]
Lucidnina and I have gotten far enough to begin recorded entries of each others dreams and any significance in them. Both using each other as the "Target"
We would like to pair up more pepole as well.
Ok let me know if theres anyone I can pair up with.