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    Thread: Ridiculed Crystal Work Wins Nobel for Israeli

    1. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      To be honest, nuclear physics is for noobs. Seriously.

      Rocket science is for people who couldn't get into the special olympics.
      Xei and Wayfaerer like this.

    2. #27
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      Rocket scientists are just compensating for their small wieners.

    3. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Well, you need a certain temperature to overcome the activation energy required to overcome the electrostatic repulsion of the nuclei... as far as I know, cold fusion is totally at odds with known physics, that was all I was saying.
      Catalyst. l2chemistry

      Besides, what you said isn't even a violation of thermodynamics, it's just inconvenient. A violation of thermodynamics would be a spontaneous reaction that both reduces entropy and increases enthalpy.
      Last edited by cmind; 10-09-2011 at 04:31 AM.

    4. #29
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      Oh mah gawd a persecuted Israeli, who ever heard of such a thing. Well, good job anyhow.

    5. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by cmind View Post
      Catalyst. l2chemistry

      Besides, what you said isn't even a violation of thermodynamics, it's just inconvenient. A violation of thermodynamics would be a spontaneous reaction that both reduces entropy and increases enthalpy.
      Muon-catalyzed fusion is not yet practical, and in the experiments of Fleischmann and Pons excess energy is being produced than what is being put into the experiment, which does violate the first law of thermodynamics, which is the conservation of energy.
      Last edited by Wayfaerer; 10-09-2011 at 05:10 AM.

    6. #31
      Xei
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      Quote Originally Posted by cmind View Post
      Catalyst. l2chemistry

      Besides, what you said isn't even a violation of thermodynamics, it's just inconvenient. A violation of thermodynamics would be a spontaneous reaction that both reduces entropy and increases enthalpy.
      It's either a violation of basic thermodynamics or it's somehow 'turning off' the electrostatic force. Both of these things are pretty out there.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaerer View Post
      Muon-catalyzed fusion is not yet practical, and in the experiments of Fleischmann and Pons excess energy is being produced than what is being put into the experiment, which does violate the first law of thermodynamics, which is the conservation of energy.
      Last time I checked, fusion is supposed to produce excess energy. So does burning coal. Is burning coal a violation of thermodynamics? Durrrr

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      I thought they were accounting for the mass as well. Nuclear fusion and coal do not produce excess anything, they change energy forms.

    9. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaerer View Post
      Muon-catalyzed fusion is not yet practical, and in the experiments of Fleischmann and Pons excess energy is being produced than what is being put into the experiment, which does violate the first law of thermodynamics, which is the conservation of energy.
      Er...

      Energy is completely conserved. What's being referred to is the useful work. If you put say 10MW in and only get 5MW of usable power out of it, that still adds up to a total of 15MW. The goal of current fusion experiments is to obtain a Q value of >1, where you get more usable energy out of the fusion reaction than you used to start and contain the reaction in the first place.

      The energy produced also comes from converting some of the mass. No violation of thermodynamics whatsoever... this is basic basic stuff.

    10. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Photolysis View Post
      Er...

      Energy is completely conserved. What's being referred to is the useful work. If you put say 10MW in and only get 5MW of usable power out of it, that still adds up to a total of 15MW. The goal of current fusion experiments is to obtain a Q value of >1, where you get more usable energy out of the fusion reaction than you used to start and contain the reaction in the first place.

      The energy produced also comes from converting some of the mass. No violation of thermodynamics whatsoever... this is basic basic stuff.
      I don't know much about the cold fusion experiment, but like I said, I thought it was energy unaccountable by the mass reduction. I thought it had something to do with the the mysterious excess energy they would need to overcome the repulsion of the nuclei without a catalyst.
      Last edited by Wayfaerer; 10-09-2011 at 05:25 PM.

    11. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaerer View Post
      I don't know much about the cold fusion experiment, but like I said, I thought it was energy unaccountable by the mass reduction. I thought it had something to do with the the mysterious excess energy they would need to overcome the repulsion of the nuclei without a catalyst.
      Well with cold fusion I haven't heard of any peer-reviewed evidence from a reputable source for it actually occurring, much less any mechanism that would lower the activation energy for the reaction, unlike Muon-catalysed fusion.

      In any case, thermodynamics states that the reaction pathway is irrelevant when it comes to the total energy released in the reaction. So if the same reaction released different amounts of energy through different pathways that would indeed be a violation of thermodynamics.

    12. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by Photolysis View Post
      In any case, thermodynamics states that the reaction pathway is irrelevant when it comes to the total energy released in the reaction. So if the same reaction released different amounts of energy through different pathways that would indeed be a violation of thermodynamics.
      Yes, thank you. Someone who isn't a moron super cool dude and thinks that high activation energy somehow equates with a violation of thermodynamics.
      Last edited by cmind; 10-09-2011 at 07:17 PM.

    13. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by cmind View Post
      Yes, thank you. Someone who isn't a moron and thinks that high activation energy somehow equates with a violation of thermodynamics.
      I've asked you to knock this crap off. Grow up, please.
      http://i.imgur.com/Ke7qCcF.jpg
      (Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)

    14. #39
      Xei
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      Quote Originally Posted by cmind View Post
      Yes, thank you. Someone who isn't a moron super cool dude and thinks that high activation energy somehow equates with a violation of thermodynamics.
      You're not special for understanding basic chemistry (wow catalysts, what the fuck are they?), and my meaning has already been explained to you.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      You're not special for understanding basic chemistry (wow catalysts, what the fuck are they?), and my meaning has already been explained to you.
      No it wasn't. You said that cold fusion, by being cold, violates thermodynamics. I pointed out that the existence of catalysts disproves this.

    16. #41
      Xei
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      "you need a certain temperature to overcome the activation energy required to overcome the electrostatic repulsion of the nuclei"

      Why so confused? It's pretty simple bro.

    17. #42
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      "you need a certain temperature to overcome the activation energy required to overcome the electrostatic repulsion of the nuclei"

      Why so confused? It's pretty simple bro.
      Not quite. Nuclear catalysts, like the already mentioned muon catalyst, can rearrange the forces in a way that actually reduces the required activation energy, and hence the temperature. Once again, I think it is you who is missing something.

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      Your off topic (although this topic is off topic lol). The experiments in question when someone says "Cold Fusion" do not use such catalysts. Also, muons do not "rearrange" the electromagnetic force, they bring the nuclei closer together by replacing electrons in atoms.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaerer View Post
      Your off topic (although this topic is off topic lol). The experiments in question when someone says "Cold Fusion" do not use such catalysts. Also, muons do not "rearrange" the electromagnetic force, they bring the nuclei closer together by replacing electrons in atoms.
      "Rearrange" might not be the best word, but catalysts do change the required activation energy, which is my point. Also, you don't necessarily need a traditional catalyst. For example, a well-designed particle accelerator could achieve net gain fusion without needing a high ambient temperature in any non-negligible space*.

      *Technically, you could say that an individual particle has a certain temperature depending on its energy, but that's a big stretch. Temperature, as a concept, is meant to talk about large numbers of particles.
      Last edited by cmind; 10-11-2011 at 06:27 PM.

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