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    1. #1
      Member NeoSioType's Avatar
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      Does this phenomenon have a name? Psychology related

      I don't know if it's just me but a lot of people assume we have free will to decide our feelings and beliefs about something.

      I always found this very strange and it frustrates me when people adopt the attitude of treating the consciousness as the same entity that harbors feelings from the body.

      I want to say illusion of freewill or self, but that's a bit controversial and I fear many would try to discredit some of my arguments because of that. I was hoping for a better term that actually described the phenomenon.

    2. #2
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      what is this I don't even

      Could you maybe elaborate a little more? Maybe it's just me, but I haven't the slightest clue what you're on about.

    3. #3
      Member NeoSioType's Avatar
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      Alright, forget about all that and focus on this question. Do you believe that you have the freedom to decide right now how you feel about something?

      I will use examples of autosuggestion. Autosuggestion, like hypnosis is a type of pretending.

      Take your least favorite food. For the purpose of this experiment, consciously say to yourself that it's your favorite. Is it really your favorite? Perhaps later... Right now? No.

      Let's say as a child you were raised in an abusive family and let's say you ending up hating someone in that family. Several years later someone tells you to just let it go and forgive that person.

      For this experiment you encounter this person and say “I forgive you.” However it would be more appropriate to use past tense if you really did forgive them or at least say I wish I could forgive you.

      Does the act of just making this verbal affirmation “I forgive you” really erase those feelings in that moment? Isn't forgiveness more than just saying something? And more like a series of behaviors than a single action? The phrase “I forgive you.” offers a solution to those that want to forgive but are unable to at the moment.

      Putting aside the strangeness of the English language these unconscious and perhaps unintentional verbal affirmations are the same as autosuggestion. We couldn’t possibly forgive someone or decide our feelings about something in a single moment.

      Now to connect to the thread. Autosuggestion is part of an elaborate illusion that gives us the appearance that we have immediate control over our feelings. And similarly we reflect that belief of control on others.

      -Hate against homosexuals because they “choose” to be that way.
      -Telling an ungrateful child to be thankful for what they have.
      -Telling someone with social anxiety that it’s illogical to be afraid when they already know that.
      -In the past, punishing children with learning disabilities. ADHD, autism, ect.

      There’s a lack of understanding that sometimes consciousness doesn’t have an immediate and complete control over the body. I am asking if this phenomenon has a name.
      Last edited by NeoSioType; 01-03-2012 at 11:34 PM.

    4. #4
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      You can't name a negative. It's like asking "what do you call it when your dog doesn't enter the room?". Your question seems meaningless, or I just don't understand it.

    5. #5
      Omnipotent Being. nitsuJ's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by NeoSioType View Post
      Alright, forget about all that and focus on this question. Do you believe that you have the freedom to decide right now how you feel about something?

      I will use examples of autosuggestion. Autosuggestion, like hypnosis is a type of pretending.

      Take your least favorite food. For the purpose of this experiment, consciously say to yourself that it's your favorite. Is it really your favorite? Perhaps later... Right now? No.

      Let's say as a child you were raised in an abusive family and let's say you ending up hating someone in that family. Several years later someone tells you to just let it go and forgive that person.

      For this experiment you encounter this person and say “I forgive you.” However it would be more appropriate to use past tense if you really did forgive them or at least say I wish I could forgive you.

      Does the act of just making this verbal affirmation “I forgive you” really erase those feelings in that moment? Isn't forgiveness more than just saying something? And more like a series of behaviors than a single action? The phrase “I forgive you.” offers a solution to those that want to forgive but are unable to at the moment.

      Putting aside the strangeness of the English language these unconscious and perhaps unintentional verbal affirmations are the same as autosuggestion. We couldn’t possibly forgive someone or decide our feelings about something in a single moment.

      Now to connect to the thread. Autosuggestion is part of an elaborate illusion that gives us the appearance that we have immediate control over our feelings. And similarly we reflect that belief of control on others.

      -Hate against homosexuals because they “choose” to be that way.
      -Telling an ungrateful child to be thankful for what they have.
      -Telling someone with social anxiety that it’s illogical to be afraid when they already know that.
      -In the past, punishing children with learning disabilities. ADHD, autism, ect.

      There’s a lack of understanding that sometimes consciousness doesn’t have an immediate and complete control over the body. I am asking if this phenomenon has a name.
      The four examples are people forming beliefs or acting on things they do not understand.

      1. If you tell a person who believes homosexuals choose to be that way and hates them for it to choose to be homosexual for a day they would respond they can't as they're heterosexual proving that homosexuality isn't a choice.

      2. That child most likely doesn't think outside of the box. If the child was aware that they could be a child in Africa starving to death, they'd most likely be grateful.

      3. I suppose some are in fear of failing or putting themselves to shame in certain scenarios which is the result of some cases of social anxiety and some people don't understand that as they don't hold the same fears.

      4. I know in many cases people used to think children with ADHD were just being unruly. The same can probably be said of Autism and other disabilities. People either didn't understand it or were just cruel.

      I don't know if there's a name for it, but the way it seems is they're all things some people have trouble understanding or are just uninformed about them.

    6. #6
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      You could simply rephrase the question as, "what is it called when people mistakenly believe that consciousness has immediate and complete control over the body and a person's actions/thoughts," et voila, it is no longer a negative. Personally, I see it as conditioning behaviour. Whether or not people actually believe that consciousness has such control isn't as important unless it is somehow life threatening. The main idea is that it gets the point across that certain behaviours are not acceptable or irrational. Sometimes all it takes in the case of "[t]elling someone with social anxiety that it’s illogical to be afraid when they already know that," is to affirm that it really is illogical. In some cases behaviours can't be helped, but in many (more than some people are willing to give others credit for) they absolutely can. I think the conditioning process is mostly unconscious and even conditioned itself from an early age, and 9 times out of 10, when used as a learning tool (which is usually the case), it isn't a bad thing.

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      Derren Brown uses this "auto-will phenomenom" in his act; he'll often make people do things "against their will". Anyone ever see that "ghost rapping" thing he did with the young woman, who cheated in the experiment? Who threw the object (shoe?) in that darkened studio?

      It implies that, through subtle and covert direction/manipulation, one can be made to do all sorts of things that "one would never dream of."
      Last edited by Oneiro; 01-06-2012 at 05:54 PM.

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by nitsuJ View Post
      The four examples are people forming beliefs or acting on things they do not understand.
      That, or they are aligning with societal "norms." When someone breaks a "norm"... well people don't very much care for that. It's much easier to blame people who are outliers than to blame the entire society into which you've been naturalized and conditioned.

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