The Pineal Gland

Don't move this thread, eh?

So I have a question and I'm hoping to get less answers on the speculation end and more answers on the research end.

What is the Pineal Gland for?

I've read it secretes melatonin meaning it has a central role in regulating our sleep cycle.

Is that its whole purpose though? Some biologists claim because the pinealocytes look so similar to the photoreceptor cells of the eye, it shares an evolutionary root with retina cells. This seems to be more than coincidence since the third eye has been involved in so much unrelated cultural mythology. I believe it was Descartes that first made the connection with the pineal gland and the third eye.

It's also been hypothesized by Dr. Rick Strassman that the pineal gland regulates the chemical DMT which is also used in shamanic vision quests by the Inca.

So my speculation is that the pineal gland directly relates to the inner eye or imagination. It may be either the ability to conceive visual data or could possibly be the ability to perceive stimuli invisible to the outer eyes. I'm not sure which, perhaps it is both as the stimuli I refer to rests in the scope of possibility and fantasy.

Having read the same Wikipedia article, it also affected sexual and bone development in young people.

The rest appears to be up in the air.

Ever see Reanimator?

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Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

1)Is that its whole purpose though? Some biologists claim because the pinealocytes look so similar to the photoreceptor cells of the eye, it shares an evolutionary root with retina cells. This seems to be more than coincidence since the third eye has been involved in so much unrelated cultural mythology. I believe it was Descartes that first made the connection with the pineal gland and the third eye.

2)So my speculation is that the pineal gland directly relates to the inner eye or imagination. It may be either the ability to conceive visual data or could possibly be the ability to perceive stimuli invisible to the outer eyes. I'm not sure which, perhaps it is both as the stimuli I refer to rests in the scope of possibility and fantasy.

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Responding to 1, this fact does not necessarily lend credence to the idea that this is the mind's eye or the third eye. The pineal gland is similar to much more primitive eyes that merely detect the presence of light. The presence of light, in this case, suppresses the release of melatonin--the idea being, it's day time, so you should be awake. The absence of light, on the other hand, allows for melatonin to be released; thus, it promotes sleepiness.

Responding to 2, the secondary visual cortex has been associated with this function, perhaps do some research on it before forming any formal views on the subject. For instance, while sleeping and people report having dreamt, the primary visual cortex is noted to be inactive, while the secondary visual cortex remains active. The secondary visual cortex also appears active when people are asked to relax and visualize. So, perhaps the pineal gland plays a role in this, but that can't be credibly said without doing more research.

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Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

It's also been hypothesized by Dr. Rick Strassman that the pineal gland regulates the chemical DMT which is also used in shamanic vision quests by the Inca.

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I want an answer to this. Admittedly, I haven't been bothered to look for one; however, I don't see why this is still a hypothesis. Is it not remarkably easy to prove/disprove this?

It is proberly the single most important part of your system from my opinion. some call it the third eye, also responsible for intuition, prety much like a reciever which gets devine information from the collective field of conciouseness. When you make a break through, or get an answer to a important question where the answer just pops into your hear, the "Aha Moment" you have the pineal gland to thank. It also has other features which help with sleeping, and if activated its the most pleasurable exprience of your life. happened to me once trying to figure out how i did it to do it again

How exactly do you know this, Mrsf0011? What reputable scientific sources published the articles you got these ideas from? To me, it sounds like you made all of that up. And please, no anecdotal evidence.

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Originally Posted by Original Poster

Don't move this thread, eh?

So I have a question and I'm hoping to get less answers on the speculation end and more answers on the research end.

What is the Pineal Gland for?

I've read it secretes melatonin meaning it has a central role in regulating our sleep cycle.

Is that its whole purpose though? Some biologists claim because the pinealocytes look so similar to the photoreceptor cells of the eye, it shares an evolutionary root with retina cells. This seems to be more than coincidence since the third eye has been involved in so much unrelated cultural mythology. I believe it was Descartes that first made the connection with the pineal gland and the third eye.

It's also been hypothesized by Dr. Rick Strassman that the pineal gland regulates the chemical DMT which is also used in shamanic vision quests by the Inca.

So my speculation is that the pineal gland directly relates to the inner eye or imagination. It may be either the ability to conceive visual data or could possibly be the ability to perceive stimuli invisible to the outer eyes. I'm not sure which, perhaps it is both as the stimuli I refer to rests in the scope of possibility and fantasy.

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From the bit of research I did a few years ago I have about nothing to add other than that we don't have enough scientific data on the subject and that a lot of the information out there is speculation. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Wolfwood

I want an answer to this. Admittedly, I haven't been bothered to look for one; however, I don't see why this is still a hypothesis. Is it not remarkably easy to prove/disprove this?

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Honestly it's been more or less debunked. While DMT resides in small amounts in virtually every bit of living matter, no profound connection had been found with the Pineal Gland. It's basically been concluded that the pineal does not excrete any DMT. Though, like StonedApe said, there is still much research to be done before we understand the mysteries of the Pineal Gland. I would not say it's safe to hedge one's bets that the pineal gland truly is the missing link to divinity as Descartes implied.

But I would wager, based upon my fascination with mythology, that there's more to it than sleep cycles. Or perhaps more to sleep than we assume. It's hard to say which, it's only safe to say that there's evidence that the pineal gland has been held in reverence by many an ancient society before Descartes we ever born. The theory of the pineal gland predates him, and in fact through careful examination is mythological symbolism it could date back to the ancient egyptians and sumerians. Most of that mythology appears to indicate it's relationship with the spinal column, the chakras and the Kundalini. But it's impossible to lay claim upon those adventures right now.

As far as I know philosophical interest in the pineal basically started and ended with Descartes. It was just his very weak attempt at starting to address the mind-body problem and was perceived as such by his peers. I very much doubt people were even aware of the pituitary before modern anatomy. Given that the Egyptians thought the brain was worthless goop which they chucked away it's hard to give any credit at all to their having a preoccupation with the gland.

That is such a disgustingly obtuse ascription to Egyptian Mythology it is worthy of no more response than "Fucking Read More."

What a paragon of intellectualism you are Omnis. :roll:

No, that's not how this works. I don't have time to read the entire freaking Egyptian canon until I stumble upon some reference or other. It is my understanding from reading about history that what I say is true, but it's quite possible I'm misinformed, in which case you educate me with sources instead of acting like a 10 year old.

Any kind of misinformation (if there even is any), aside, I do not think the pineal gland is this mind's eye. For being someone who does not even think that there is a single "you" or consciousness, Omnis, I find it hard to believe you find it possible, let alone plausible, that the mind's eye could be attributed to the function of a single gland in the brain. You took some factual information (pinealocytes looking similar to photoreceptors in the eye) and made from it a romantic explanation, but your explanation contains no more facts than what it started with. Instead of doing the logical thing in that situation (learning about pinealocytes looking similar to photoreceptors in the eye) and researching the information further, you completely bypassed formulating a hypothesis and supporting it with evidence in lieu of the easy route--coming to a conclusion based on perceived "insight". If you read my original post, as it turns out, you are most likely wrong and the pineal gland's pinealocytes probably just modulate the suppression and secretion of melatonin based on lighting from the environment. Research the topic further, maybe you'll find something interesting no one in this thread knows about yet.

I think if someone actually rigorously defines what is specifically meant by "mind's eye" or "third eye", this discussion would evaporate in a puff of illogic.

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Originally Posted by snoop

Any kind of misinformation (if there even is any), aside, I do not think the pineal gland is this mind's eye. For being someone who does not even think that there is a single "you" or consciousness, Omnis, I find it hard to believe you find it possible, let alone plausible, that the mind's eye could be attributed to the function of a single gland in the brain. You took some factual information (pinealocytes looking similar to photoreceptors in the eye) and made from it a romantic explanation, but your explanation contains no more facts than what it started with. Instead of doing the logical thing in that situation (learning about pinealocytes looking similar to photoreceptors in the eye) and researching the information further, you completely bypassed formulating a hypothesis and supporting it with evidence in lieu of the easy route--coming to a conclusion based on perceived "insight". If you read my original post, as it turns out, you are most likely wrong and the pineal gland's pinealocytes probably just modulate the suppression and secretion of melatonin based on lighting from the environment. Research the topic further, maybe you'll find something interesting no one in this thread knows about yet.

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I did read your post and I find it insightful, actually. But continue acting like suggesting something is the same thing as ignoring evidence to the contrary if you like.

And just because I don't believe that there is a single "you" doesn't mean the organism cannot have tools which work in ways we do not understand.

Anyway Xei I decided to look up a page for you which has compiled a collection of symbols believed to represent the pineal.

http://www.conesandstones.com/historical-symbolism.html

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Originally Posted by cmind

I think if someone actually rigorously defines what is specifically meant by "mind's eye" or "third eye", this discussion would evaporate in a puff of illogic.

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The mind's eye is just the part(s) of the brain that are used when you imagine or visualize something. Close your eyes and imagine a tomato. That's the minds eye. Not really a rigorous definition, but I don't really care.

The third eye is the crown chakra I believe. I'm assuming you aren't going to really take seriously anything I say about chakras so I'm not gonna waste much time writing about them. There's nothing supernatural about them; they're just a way to map certain parts of your body and use your awareness to achieve altered states of consciousness. Some people also say they can be used in the same way for healing purposes.

Certain meditations have led me to believe chakras are energy focal points within the body. However I will admit it did not appear to me that the pineal gland is the specific vortex for the "third eye" chakra. While there's definitely a focal point within the brain, it's energy related, not consciousness related.

I'm most interested in seeing what you think about the theory that the pinecone (and other symbols) is used by groups and societies like the Catholics to represent to pineal gland. I've heard the likes of David Wilcock explain why he thinks so many societies believed the pineal gland to be significant (for other reasons than Descartes) and I need a good dose of skepticism to balance out the argument. I'm more interested in StonedApe's approach than Xei or Cmind, who both seem to have confused obdurate reductionism and dismissal with skepticism.

Sorry to disappoint, but I really don't know anything about the history of the pineal gland, or the science of it for that matter. The only research I ever did on it was how it related to DMT. And all I found was that all the sources I looked at had made really unscientific assumptions. I'm still waiting for more data to come in. I'd really like to know more about how it functions before I speculate about what was used to symbolize it and why. I'm pretty skeptical about the catholics even knowing about it unless it has some role in mystical experiences, and even then I'm skeptical that they had that kind of anatomical understanding.