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    Thread: Scientific Mysteries

    1. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by sloth View Post
      I don't need to be a physicist to follow logic. I appreciate your advice, but I'm doing just fine over here. lol Honestly, I would much rather follow my own logic and intuition than simply accept what everybody else believes.
      But isn't the point to be able to learn and understand existing theories and then apply your own logic and intuition and then decide whether or not you should choose to believe in it?
      It seems rather illogical to dismiss theories without trying to understand them first.

      Quote Originally Posted by BrandonBoss View Post
      I think that the most interesting part of science is that there is a stopping point for every part of our science. By this I mean we know how something works, but we don't know why.

      Look at any part of science and go down the why's. In every part there is a place you will hit that we don't know the "why." It seems like something small, but if that part wasn't true, the whole thing falls apart. Not explaining myself very well here, I need a nap. I hope yall understand, if not I will give you an example later.
      It seems that in order to understand why something behaves the way it does, we have to first understand how everything else works. Almost as if we must understand everything as a whole rather than researching separate parts. It all fits together, like pieces in a puzzle.
      Last edited by Raen; 02-15-2013 at 04:40 PM.
      Darkmatters and dutchraptor like this.

    2. #52
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      If we cannot detect dark matter, and we can only infer its existence, that might mean that we have the whole thing wrong. The idea of dark matter seems to be the substantialist fallacy of something that doesn't exist, but is it? Now I have no idea what I am talking about because I am not a scientist, only a philosopher, but I have heard that the existence of dark matter is inferred to explain why some parts of the universe expand more rapidly than others. ? Knowing that the universe is expanding from all points, it is conceivable that we have the geometry slightly wrong. The singularity might be not be the big bang which we also infer from the fact that the universe is expanding. What else is a zero-dimensional singularity which can be the cause of this?

      Pondering the only other singularity that I know of, a black hole, a singularity of infinite density, but finite mass packed into an infinite small point, creates infinite density. What is an infinitely small point? Take a moment to think about that. You could fit an infinite amount of singularities inside a ping pong ball. You go down down down into it.... forever.... forever...smaller and smaller. Things break down, laws of physics do not apply to singularities, black holes and such.

      But the Big Bang is kind of like the opposite of a black hole. It expands, it is an expanding singularity, which expands into all dimensions, maybe like a fractal. But how can something that is infinitely small expand? How can something that is infinitely big expand or come out of something infinitely small?

      Well, the only thing I can think of as infinitely big is the Universe. The only thing I can think of that is infinitely small that makes the universe possible is...... The Present Moment. This present moment is infinitely small, it is a singularity. You can always divide the moment in half. Yet this moment is the whole Universe. It is kind of an intersection between dimensions or something. Now, if only I was not only a philosopher, but a scientist as well I would know what I am talking about. But I think there is some truth to this, as the only things I cannot deny are that the Universe exists and that the present moment exists. Both seem infinite to me.

    3. #53
      Xei
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut View Post
      If we cannot detect dark matter, and we can only infer its existence, that might mean that we have the whole thing wrong. The idea of dark matter seems to be the substantialist fallacy of something that doesn't exist, but is it? Now I have no idea what I am talking about because I am not a scientist, only a philosopher, but I have heard that the existence of dark matter is inferred to explain why some parts of the universe expand more rapidly than others. ? Knowing that the universe is expanding from all points, it is conceivable that we have the geometry slightly wrong. The singularity might be not be the big bang which we also infer from the fact that the universe is expanding. What else is a zero-dimensional singularity which can be the cause of this?
      No. You can find an explanation for what dark matter is in this thread. Basically it's about galaxies spinning faster than it seems like they should be able to without flying apart. Hidden matter means extra gravity to counteract this effect.

      But the Big Bang is kind of like the opposite of a black hole. It expands, it is an expanding singularity, which expands into all dimensions, maybe like a fractal. But how can something that is infinitely small expand? How can something that is infinitely big expand or come out of something infinitely small?
      For one thing, we don't know the universe came out of a single point. We can see back to a few nanoseconds after when it was a lot smaller, but not back to the beginning.

      Also, in any case, it wouldn't have been a 'single point'. The expansion of the universe would be better named a rarefication of the universe. We don't know how big the universe is. It may in fact be, and in this context it's more helpful to think of it so, infinite. So expansion doesn't mean it's getting 'bigger'; just that it's becoming more stretched out.

      The second and probably more philosophically important point: why not? Science has repeatedly shown human imagination to be severely limited. Principles which are true in the small bubble we inhabit are actually totally false on a universal scale. Why shouldn't a point be able to expand into nothing? Think of the function f(t) = [0, t]. At time t = 0, f(t) = {0}, a 'single point'. But at literally any time after that, no matter how tiny, say t = a > 0, f(t) = [0, a], which means every single point between 0 and a - of which there are infinite. Why can't the universe behave like such a function? You can't raise any philosophically valid objections. If that's the way stuff works, that's that. Same with everything.

      Well, the only thing I can think of as infinitely big is the Universe. The only thing I can think of that is infinitely small that makes the universe possible is...... The Present Moment. This present moment is infinitely small, it is a singularity. You can always divide the moment in half. Yet this moment is the whole Universe. It is kind of an intersection between dimensions or something. Now, if only I was not only a philosopher, but a scientist as well I would know what I am talking about. But I think there is some truth to this, as the only things I cannot deny are that the Universe exists and that the present moment exists.
      Funny... the thing that you just said is undeniable is actually false. The entire concept of 'the universe at a single time' is an illusion - we only think it's true because it's a very good approximation to our experience on the scale that we, as brains inside squishy little animals, live. We've evolved on that scale, and so our entire mentality is based on that being true. It helps us survive. But it's only an approximation, and on larger scales, it's totally false. This is called the 'Relativity of Simultaneity'. It's one of the consequences of Einstein's Theory of Special relativity from 1905. What for you are two simultaneous events, may, for your friend, completely literally, not have occurred at the same time. Neither of you is wrong. It just seems contradictory because of your false assumption that there is this thing called 'the present'.
      Last edited by Xei; 02-17-2013 at 07:34 AM.

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      Right, I love that at this very moment it is another time somewhere else, or this moment is in the past, this moment is in the future, it is all relative. But to right here, this moment is all there is. But the farther away from here you get, the more relative time is. Great stuff. Cool, I should check out dark matter. Personally I know nothing about it. Since every position is the center, relatively, expanding, stretching as you call it, there is nowhere to land again.

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      The theory of relativity and Newton's laws of motion (both without the mathematics) are exactly Nagarjuna's exposition of emptiness in the Madhyamakya Prasangika. I wonder if Einstein read it? "There is no smallest particle that is inherently real in itself. Every particle can be split in half. That is why, oh Noble ones, we say there is no ground of existence. Everything is relative to each other, all arising interdependently according to laws of cause and effect. This moment is full and rich of meaning, but no meaning can be ascribed to it outside the present moment."

      So, there is a mystery. WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE GROUND OF EXISTENCE? If there is no ultimate ground state, then this is all an illusion or a dream or a mirage.
      Last edited by Dannon Oneironaut; 02-21-2013 at 05:17 AM.

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      Thanks for your posts, everyone.

      Another mystery I thought was cool is the strong correlation between a supermassive black hole and the orbital speed of stars in the outer region of their galaxy. Direct gravitational influence of the supermassive black hole should be weak at this distance. Though, we find that the larger the black hole, the faster the outer stars travel.

    7. #57
      Xei
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      Needs numbers, man. Qualitatively, there's nothing remarkable about what you said.

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      With my many years of experience on the subject of astrophysics, I can conclude that

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