Hard Riddle Time

Upon hearing this riddle from a friend, I was inspired to challenge you guys with it. I'll try to be as detailed as possible:

A viking ship captures a treasure of 1000 golden coins. The treasure has to be split among the 5 vikings: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 in order of rank.

The vikings have the following important characteristics: infinitely smart, bloodthirsty, greedy.

Starting with viking 5 they can make a proposal on how to split up the treasure. This proposal can either be accepted or the viking is thrown overboard. A proposal is accepted if and only if a majority of the vikings agrees on it.

What proposal should viking 5 make?

that he gets all the money and if the other dissagree they get thrown over

this porbaly inst the awnsers but viking number 5 can agree to split the money between 4 and 3 with is a majority and 2 and 1 get nothing and more than likely the 3 will agree because there be getting alot more than if it is even if that makes sense but thats too obvious

justme wrote:

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this porbaly inst the awnsers but viking number 5 can agree to split the money between 4 and 3 with is a majority and 2 and 1 get nothing and more than likely the 3 will agree because there be getting alot more than if it is even if that makes sense but thats too obvious[/b]

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your on the right track...just remember the attributes of the vikings (eg. greedy).

Also, there needs to be a majority rule on the proposal. So 5's proposal has to be accepted by (at least) 3 of the 4 remaining vikings.

Ok how this

#5 votes to throw # 1 and 2 overboard and #5 says its to split the money between numbers 3,4,5, so 3 out of 5 agrees and there are now 3 vikings left #5 votes again to throw over board #3 so the money can be split between numbers 4 and 5 and 2 out of 3 votes yes so there are now 2 vikings left that as far as I got scine u said it has to be MAJORITY and not just half that right?

So does Viking 5 have the highest rank? Because that person should want to go last. I'm assuming Viking 5 has the lowest rank, and would want to take as much as he can get.

I have two strategies in mind. The more effective one would be to have as many other vikings thrown overboard as possible. The safe thing to do would be to get one viking thrown overboard, and split the pot 250 * 4.

Can Viking 5 pass propagate his proposition onto Viking #4? Can Viking 5 say "I want 197 coins, you may split the rest of the pot however you agree.

I think that may be it. Then there are 803 coins left, which can't be split evenly by three (two remaining) or by four (three remaining). Someone will disagree and get thrown overboard, and then Viking 5 can come back for more.

Let's see...if I can get it down to two people, viking 5 can disagree and throw the only remaining viking left overboard (and take all 1000 coins for himself).

I guess people could keep coming up short, but then the last person (viking 1) will get thrown overboard because everyone is getting jipped...then the Viking 2 can be thrown over as well...but then Vikings 3 and 4 may side together so that Viking 5 can't throw them both over. Otherwise, Viking 5 would get all the money.

Can multiple proposals be made like this? I'm not sure I exactly followed the rules, but they weren't precisely specified.

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So does Viking 5 have the highest rank? Because that person should want to go last. I'm assuming Viking 5 has the lowest rank, and would want to take as much as he can get. [/b]

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Correct...Viking 5 has the lowest rank and therefore has to make his proposal first.

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I have two strategies in mind. The more effective one would be to have as many other vikings thrown overboard as possible. The safe thing to do would be to get one viking thrown overboard, and split the pot 250 * 4. [/b]

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He can only propose on how to split the gold, not on who should be tossed overboard.

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Can Viking 5 pass propagate his proposition onto Viking #4?[/b]

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No.

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Can Viking 5 say \"I want 197 coins, you may split the rest of the pot however you agree. [/b]

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He could, but he would be swiftly chucked over the side of the boat. :)~

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I think that may be it. Then there are 803 coins left, which can't be split evenly by three (two remaining) or by four (three remaining). Someone will disagree and get thrown overboard, and then Viking 5 can come back for more. [/b]

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Viking 5 has to make a proposal that fully distributes the coins amongst the five of them. I apologize for not making that aspect of the riddle more clear.

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I guess people could keep coming up short, but then the last person (viking 1) will get thrown overboard because everyone is getting jipped...then the Viking 2 can be thrown over as well...but then Vikings 3 and 4 may side together so that Viking 5 can't throw them both over. Otherwise, Viking 5 would get all the money. *

Can multiple proposals be made like this? I'm not sure I exactly followed the rules, but they weren't precisely specified.[/b]

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There shouldn't be any multiple proposals. The goal of the riddle is to make a single proposal for Viking 5 that would be in the best interest of ALL the vikings; especially Viking 5.

Your on the right track though DistantClone. Your train of thought is very similiar to how mines was when first attempting the riddle and to be honest I was never able to come up with the most optimal (and correct) proposal. I was pretty close though and I will post the answer I came up with after you guys take a few more stabs at it. ;) ~

>> The goal of the riddle is to make a single proposal for Viking 5 that would be in the best interest of ALL the vikings

Actually as the riddle reads, the goal is to make a proposal in the best interest of the majority of the vikings, since only a majority agreement is required.

He proposes as follows:

Viking 1 receives 400 coins.
Viking 2 receives 300 coins.
Viking 3 receives 200 coins.
Viking 4 shall receive nothing.
And he himself (viking 5) shall receive 100 coins.

Vikings 1, 2, and 3, all being greedy [receiving significantly more for their rank than those below them], and bloodthirsty [receiving even more by cutting viking 4 out] accept the proposal.

And viking 5 being infinitely smart gets to keep his life and go home with part of viking 4's loot.

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Originally posted by DistantClone
So does Viking 5 have the highest rank? Because that person should want to go last. I'm assuming Viking 5 has the lowest rank, and would want to take as much as he can get. *

I have two strategies in mind. The more effective one would be to have as many other vikings thrown overboard as possible. The safe thing to do would be to get one viking thrown overboard, and split the pot 250 * 4.

Can Viking 5 pass propagate his proposition onto Viking #4? Can Viking 5 say \"I want 197 coins, you may split the rest of the pot however you agree.

I think that may be it. Then there are 803 coins left, which can't be split evenly by three (two remaining) or by four (three remaining). Someone will disagree and get thrown overboard, and then Viking 5 can come back for more.

Let's see...if I can get it down to two people, viking 5 can disagree and throw the only remaining viking left overboard (and take all 1000 coins for himself).

I guess people could keep coming up short, but then the last person (viking 1) will get thrown overboard because everyone is getting jipped...then the Viking 2 can be thrown over as well...but then Vikings 3 and 4 may side together so that Viking 5 can't throw them both over. Otherwise, Viking 5 would get all the money. *

Can multiple proposals be made like this? I'm not sure I exactly followed the rules, but they weren't precisely specified.

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oh god MATH! :eek:

Better idea. Viking 5 is screwed no matter what, he may as well jump overboard now. He is getting a maximum of 0 gold coins.

Edit: (Another idea)
Viking 5 can get 997 coins.
If any viking proposes that he gets more than his fair share, he will get thrown overboard. Now, Viking 1 will get all 1000 coins if all are thrown overboard. Viking 2 needs to realize if he turns down Viking 3's proposal, then Viking 1 is going to throw him overboard. Viking 3 will realize the same about Viking 4. Vikings 2,3,4 should be lucky to get any coins. Therefore, propose (997,1,1,1,0) and screw Viking 1 because he will disagree no matter what. Then vikings 2,3,4 are happy to get any coins at all. They will accept and Viking 5 wins.

Second edit:
If it's worth 1 gold coin to not be thrown over the edge of the boat, for Vikings 2,3,4 then Viking 5 can get all 1000 coins.

DistantClone wrote:

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Viking 5 can get 997 coins. *
If any viking proposes that he gets more than his fair share, he will get thrown overboard. Now, Viking 1 will get all 1000 coins if all are thrown overboard. Viking 2 needs to realize if he turns down Viking 3's proposal, then Viking 1 is going to throw him overboard. Viking 3 will realize the same about Viking 4. Vikings 2,3,4 should be lucky to get any coins. Therefore, propose (997,1,1,1,0) and screw Viking 1 because he will disagree no matter what. Then vikings 2,3,4 are happy to get any coins at all. They will accept and Viking 5 wins. [/b]

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We have a winner!! :breakitdown: (or at least an answer close enough to justify being correct)

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Originally posted by DistantClone
Edit: (Another idea)
Viking 5 can get 997 coins. *
If any viking proposes that he gets more than his fair share, he will get thrown overboard. Now, Viking 1 will get all 1000 coins if all are thrown overboard. Viking 2 needs to realize if he turns down Viking 3's proposal, then Viking 1 is going to throw him overboard. Viking 3 will realize the same about Viking 4. Vikings 2,3,4 should be lucky to get any coins. Therefore, propose (997,1,1,1,0) and screw Viking 1 because he will disagree no matter what. Then vikings 2,3,4 are happy to get any coins at all. They will accept and Viking 5 wins.

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I'm guessing you never met a Viking? That makes little sense, because should Viking 5, the lowest ranking Viking, propose that, he would be immediately cast overboard.

Dreamscape wrote:

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I'm guessing you never met a Viking? [/b]

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Have you? :roll:

Besides the symbolic elements of the riddle are irrelevant; it is the variables and the traits that the elements possess that determine the solution for this particular riddle.

I could have used Penguins trying to divide 1000 sardines, so long as the variables and the traits that the penguins possess were the same as in the originally posted riddle.

In fact, the original version of this riddle used Pirates instead of Vikings, but I changed the wording so that no one would \"google\" up the answer.

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That makes little sense, because should Viking 5, the lowest ranking Viking, propose that, he would be immediately cast overboard.[/b]

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How so?

Anyways, I'll try to explain what I came up with even though my solution was slightly different than DistantClone's solution, it still follows the correct and most logical line of reasoning (consdering all of the listed traits that Vikings possess).

Here is what I came up with:

5 proposes 2 coins for either 1 or 2, 0 coin for 3 and 998 for himself.

The reasoning is:
Going backwards:

2 Proposes: 1 rejects;
3 Proposes: 0 for 2 and 1000 for himself; 2 keeps life
4 proposes: 1 for 1 and 2 and 998 for himself. ( 1 and 2 do better here than in 3's proposal).
5 proposes: 2 for either 1 or 2, 0 for 3, and 998 for himself.
what is better for them in this than in 4's proposal:
1 or 2 gets 1 more coin.
3 gets to live.

no actually the type of person is needed, not just general characteristics.

In the original riddle, the answer is only plausible because of the key factor that pirates are much more greedy than bloodthirsty.

I think the opposite is generally true for Vikings, which is why the answer makes little sense.

Also, whether pirates or vikings, the 97,1,1,1,0 proposal would almost certainly fail because they are bloodthirsty and greedy, throwing 5 overboard they could get a better deal, even if for just one more coin.

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no actually the type of person is needed, not just general characteristics. *

In the original riddle, the answer is only plausible because of the key factor that pirates are much more greedy than bloodthirsty. *

I think the opposite is generally true for Vikings, which is why the answer makes little sense. [/b]

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LOL!! I didn't take this comment seriously at first, but the more I read it the more I thought you actually meant it...and if you did, we will save the debate on whether Pirates were more greedy and bloodthirsty than Vikings for another thread. :lol:

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Also, whether pirates or vikings, the 97,1,1,1,0 proposal would almost certainly fail because they are bloodthirsty and greedy, throwing 5 overboard they could get a better deal, even if for just one more coin.[/b]

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They all possess the trait of being infinitely smart as well. No one trait is greater than another. Please read through my last posted solution and you will see the most logical proposal for #5 to make (considering the traits that ALL of the Vikings possess).