Thread: Goku vs. Superman -> Who'd Win?

Unfortunately Goku would indeed murder superman. But...you're mixing realities which aren't in alignment.

However it also depends on which universe they are in. In Superman's world there is no such thing as spiritual power or ki, so Goku would be powerless.

If they both had their powers Goku would win certainly. But it isn't fair to pit two realities against each other that have a different basis for reality.

However, if superman went to Goku's reality first and trained up, he would kick Goku's ass for certain. He could spend fricken hundreds of years in the hyperbolic time chamber (if there was a sun or something) and come out super bad ass.

So, Goku > Superman if they just randomly meet up in Goku's universe, but
Superman > Goku if they meet in superman's reality or Superman has a chance to train in their crazy ki ways before hand.

Originally Posted by juiceyfruit1714

I had just mentioned where Goku had died a few times in the series..but tell me, how many times did superman meet his match and get thrown around a few times? a good many times..
how many times have you seen Goku back down or get his ass whooped?
Twice? Kid Buu tossed him around a little bit..but not for long..and by Broly in the special saga...
and then he was blown away by a triple K with the help of Goten and Gohan.
Can Superman harness the power of every soul on earth and use it against his foes?

You're completely ignorant about Superman and your biased views regarding both characters are blatantly obvious. Sure Goku can harness the power of "every soul on earth" but Superman can harness the power of the FUCKING sun. You know...that big yellow thingy in the sky that hurts to stare at. Check mate.

Originally Posted by juiceyfruit1714

Besides...Goku doesnt need disguises, he's got nothing to be afraid of.

I fail to see how this is even remotely relevant to the strength of these two powerhouses.

Originally Posted by juiceyfruit1714

Theres an endless amount of things Goku could annhilate superman with.
Goku's regular form would be a good match against any superman..pre-crisis or whatever.

Again, ignorance regarding pre-crisis superman is showing.

Originally Posted by juiceyfruit1714

tell me this...say superman can hold his own long enough to make it through the night..what happens when the moons full?
I'd like to see clark whipe his glasses on that one.
We can just call ole' kent Bananas.

...

You've GOT to be joking...

Superman could annihilate an Oozaru without much effort. Sure their power is awesome but their atomic size is their downfall. Like the Ultra Super Saiyan (USSJ) form. When transformed into USSJ (as evidenced by Trunks in the Cell saga) your strength multiplies greatly than that of a regular Super Saiyan (SSJ), but your speed declines so much where the transformation is ultimately written off as useless. To put it simply, USSJ is the retarded version of SSJ2. Size does matter, despite what you hear most women say .

Originally Posted by Jeff777

You're completely ignorant about Superman and your biased views regarding both characters are blatantly obvious. Sure Goku can harness the power of "every soul on earth" but Superman can harness the power of the FUCKING sun. You know...that big yellow thingy in the sky that hurts to stare at. Check mate.

Goku's spirit bomb can cause damage to a being pure of heart, though the success rate is decreased. Superman would have to be in tip-top shape and actually able to do a pro-active parry to the Spirit Bomb in order to deflect it.

Also, Goku can invoke the power of the Spirit Bomb, while in SuperSaiya-Jin form (as he did against Android 13 in the Three Super Saiya-Jins! movie), nullifying the "pure of heart" clause and super-charging himself, in SSJ form, with the power of the Spirit Bomb, dealing out damage to anybody who runs into his fists.

Adding to this, Goku can not only use all of the power of the living creatures on one planet. In his later forms, he's developed the ability to gather energy from the lifeforms throughout the universe (as he used on Omega Shenron in DBGT). I seriously doubt that Superman has that kind of power.

Sure, there is a major drawback in the Spirit Bomb, in that is takes a long time to collect the energy for it, but if Goku can subdue Superman long enough to gather the energy, I don't think there is anything Superman could do to withstand the Bomb.

Spirit Bomb aside - and more true to the nature of the OP - I don't know if regular Goku could beat Superman, but I think SSJ Goku vs. Superman would be one hell of a fight (assuming that Superman, being the impractical brawler that he is, could match SSJ Goku's martial arts expertise), but in his later forms, I think Goku - all advantages considered - could annihilate even the strongest version of Superman. But hey, the bulk of the argument is based on biases anyway, so it's not like we're going to get any sort of definitive answer on this.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Goku's spirit bomb can cause damage to a being pure of heart, though the success rate is decreased. Superman would have to be in tip-top shape and actually able to do a pro-active parry to the Spirit Bomb in order to deflect it.

Also, Goku can invoke the power of the Spirit Bomb, while in SuperSaiya-Jin form (as he did against Android 13 in the Three Super Saiya-Jins! movie), nullifying the "pure of heart" clause and super-charging himself, in SSJ form, with the power of the Spirit Bomb, dealing out damage to anybody who runs into his fists.

Adding to this, Goku can not only use all of the power of the living creatures on one planet. In his later forms, he's developed the ability to gather energy from the lifeforms throughout the universe (as he used on Omega Shenron in DBGT). I seriously doubt that Superman has that kind of power.

Sure, there is a major drawback in the Spirit Bomb, in that is takes a long time to collect the energy for it, but if Goku can subdue Superman long enough to gather the energy, I don't think there is anything Superman could do to withstand the Bomb.

Re-emphasizing what you touched upon - this Spirit bomb talk is all pre-supposing that Superman would grant Goku the time of day to charge this thing. And you and I both know the Universal Spirit Bomb takes even longer to charge. In the Z/GT series, Goku always had other Z fighters to distract the villain so that he could charge the spirit bomb's. This is a Goku vs. Superman bout...only. Superman's super intelligence wouldn't allow Goku to charge such a thing. Besides, If Supe's started losing...he could just travel back in time (that being one of his P.C. abilities) and kill off baby Goku .

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Spirit Bomb aside - and more true to the nature of the OP - I don't know if regular Goku could beat Superman, but I think SSJ Goku vs. Superman would be one hell of a fight (assuming that Superman, being the impractical brawler that he is, could match SSJ Goku's martial arts expertise), but in his later forms, I think Goku - all advantages considered - could annihilate even the strongest version of Superman. But hey, the bulk of the argument is based on biases anyway, so it's not like we're going to get any sort of definitive answer on this.

Hands down, Goku kicks Supe's ass in every way when it comes down to martial arts. Superman fights with brute limitless strength, stamina and force alone while Goku does have experienced training in various forms of martial arts. I think SSJ 1 (and possibly SSJ2) Goku would be a hell of a fight against regular Superman. I think P.C. Superman and SSJ4 Goku would rock Earth like crazy if they ever fought though.

Are there no Superman fans here? Seriously...do you all not remember reading in the comics where Superman locked the major BULK of his power inside of himself so as not to destroy Earth or the human population? In the comics, it's been stated that Kara (Clark's cousin aka Supergirl) is actually stronger than Superman himself (albeit slightly) since she fights at 100% power and Superman fights at like 10%. All arguments aside, I'd like to see Goku literally juggle seven, septillion sized planets in his bare hands at one time. Do you all have ANY clue as to how strong P.C. Superman was???? Serious question.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Superman's super intelligence wouldn't allow Goku to charge such a thing.

That's an assumption that I wouldn't hinge an argument on.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Do you all have ANY clue as to how strong P.C. Superman was???? Serious question.

Do you have any clue as to how strong SSJ4 Goku is? Serious question.

The answer is probably 'no', seeing as how we've never seen either character's power used in a way that is completely comparable to the other. It's like one person saying "Well, I've seen Bob lift a tank" and another person saying "Yeah, well I've seen Tom lift a locomotive." With such limited information on each person's max, it is impossible to tell which one is stronger than the other.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Do you have any clue as to how strong SSJ4 Goku is? Serious question.

The answer is probably 'no', seeing as how we've never seen either character's power used in a way that is completely comparable to the other. It's like one person saying "Well, I've seen Bob lift a tank" and another person saying "Yeah, well I've seen Tom lift a locomotive." With such limited information on each person's max, it is impossible to tell which one is stronger than the other.

Fair enough. However, we do have some information to go on based on physical feats that both men have demonstrated. And I'm pretty sure if Tom lifted the locomotive that he'd win hands down seeing as locomotives are heavier than tanks . Like I said earlier, I'm a big fan of both characters in fact I'm an even bigger fan of Goku, however - I really don't think Goku even in SSJ4 form (or Gogeta for that matter) could juggle multiple planets in his bare hands, each planet weighing 1 septillion a piece.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

That's an assumption that I wouldn't hinge an argument on.

-sigh- Alright, look man...I'll highlight the bullets.

Superman's strength was increased to the point where he could move entire planets and he was able to fly at speeds faster than light. He could use this power to travel through time as well as fly to other worlds, solar systems and galaxies and even to other universes with relative ease. By the 1970s, Superman was able to withstand the explosion of nuclear weapons with no risk whatsoever and fly unharmed through the core of a star. Superman was also able to survive without air, water, or food. Superman was immune to everything except for Kryptonite radiation and magic.

Superman possessed x-ray vision, allowing him to see through solid objects (except through lead), as well as telescopic vision (seeing great, even interstellar distances) and microscopic vision (seeing small things, even subatomic particles). These powers could be used individually or in conjunction with one another. His eyes could also perceive the full electromagnetic spectrum including infrared and ultraviolet frequencies of radiation. Originally depicted as a by-product of his x-ray vision, Superman's "heat vision" allowed him to generate energy beams which could be used to melt or vaporize almost any substance.

Superman could hear sound at almost any wavelength and at vast distances. Superman's breath was capable of freezing objects (because his lungs were able to put air under tremendous pressure, thus super-cooling it) and generating hurricane-force winds. Superman could throw his voice across great distances. This power was used to confuse enemies or protect his secret identity by tricking others into believing that he (or Clark Kent) was in a different location.

Superman possessed genius-level intelligence and an eidetic memory. These enhanced mental capabilities were a direct result of his exposure to a yellow sun. Superman also possessed the mental ability to screen out the enormous amount of information received by his enhanced senses and to focus on a single detail such as a particular voice or location.

- Source: Wiki.

Ah and I forgot another part of the pre-crisis era. Superman destroyed an entire solar system (albeit by accident) by merely sneezing.

Lol -> http://lounge.moviecodec.com/topics/31833p2.html

Below is perhaps one of the most thought provoking, and pretty fair (unbiased) analysis of both men. While I may not agree with everything this poster said, I do applaud his studying. He was another one who vastly underestimated pre-crisis Superman. My only thoughts is that I would changout the SSJ3 he references in here to SSJ4.

Originally Posted by rasdaman

Ok, I see I had underestimated pre crisis supes. If he can snuff out an entire solar system like nothing, then he would be one badass dude.

To compare fairly :

In DBZ, there was once a villain called Brolly, who did the same thing, i.e. snuffing out the north galaxy(whatever that is), in the blink of an eye.

This was with Goku super saiyan 1. Goku was defeated in a one on one with him.

However, Goku did eventually win by combining powers from 3 other super saiyans and a namek (roughly = super saiyan). a Super Saiyan (SSJ 1) has a power level of 15 million. Total strength needed = 5* 15 = 75 million.

Super saiyan 2 (SSJ 2) has a power level of 80 million. Goku reaches this stage by the middle of dbz.

Super saiyan 3 (SSJ 3) was more powerful than 2 SSJ 2s, as shown when goku-vegeta face off against buu.

Hence, SSJ 3 = at least 160 million.


Techniques :

Speed: Superman can do millions of times the speed of light.

Characters in DBZ, exceeded light speed in the 4th episode. Power level needed was 1000.

By the end of all 250 episodes, goku’s power would be at least 160 million at his peak(as calculated above). Hence, he should be moving at 160,000 times light speed at normal fighting.

Conclusion, in normal fighting, supes would make goku stand still.


However, Goku also has instantaneous transport -> infinite speed. This would radically alter the fight, by letting goku get out of harm’s way more easily.

Conclusion, Goku, can potentially outspeed anyone who does not know instant transport.


Sensing: Goku relies on Ki to detect and fight an opponent. Supes uses supervision, hearing, smell etc. Goku can detect Ki’s from across the universe. Pre-crisis supes might be able to smell from across the universe for all I know.

Conclusion, tie.


Durability: Supes is invulnerable.

Goku’s invulnerability is comparable to that of superman. DBZ villains pack atom bombs into their punches at power level 1000. Buu was around power 1000 million -> 1 billion, i.e. 1 million atom bomb power punches. Goku took the hits without dying.

Conclusion: Hard to say, tie perhaps ?



Interdimensional travel: Both have been there, done that.

Time travel: Goku has done that with trunks' time machine, in an undubbed japanese video.

Supes might have done that under some nameless author sometime.

Conclusion: Tie.

Juggling planets/galaxies: Supes juggles galaxies.

Don’t know, goku has never tried it. He can destroy them, but it is unknown whether he can also juggle them.

He does win against opponents who can exert forces that are very large, as pointed above, so perhaps he can lift the galaxies as well or at least a few planets and maybe even a sun smiley

Conclusion: Supes might have an upper hand at juggling.


Energy beams/Heat rays: Supes heat ray is equal to the heat of 100 million star cores.

Heat ray’s heat is a different matter. Its a form of energy. If it is the power of a 100 million sun cores, then it would probably kill goku straight out. If it makes contact that is.....

Goku can potentially output 160,000 atom bombs worth of energy normally. If he develops a spirit bomb (the one that killed buu was a few Billion in power level), he could give out a few million atom bombs = a couple of suns. He also has a move called destructo disk, which throws a disk that cuts through nearly anything, including entire planets. This could be as fatal to supes as his death ray would be to Goku.

Conclusion: Heat ray is badass ! But, goku might be able to threaten supes similarly with destructo disks.

Weaknesses: Superman has two glaring weakness, kryptonite and magic.

Goku has no crippling weaknesses, no magic spells can kill him, unlike supes. He can pretty much repel anything to some degree with the help of Ki. Three things have been shown to weaken him, excess heat, excess cold, lack of food for prolonged amounts of time.

He has been also shown to be weak to a lack of air. However, it should be noted that Super saiyans have fought in the vacuum of space, e.g. Brolli and Vegeta. They simply take enough air with them.

Dimension disturbing: Superman can create time/dimensional rifts.

Goku has never directly done this. However the other super saiyan 3 -> gotenks did demonstrate this once, by screaming to open a rift between worlds.

Intelligence: Supes is a genius.

Goku is a naive village simpleton. However, when it comes to fighting, he is the master of strategy and is the best mind in the universe. This is a very surprising and unsettling change, to watch the normally bumbling goku transform into a Wing Tzu style tactician.

Conclusion: Goku is not gonna get through high school, but he will be an equal in brains when it comes to fighting supes.


Willpower: Supes has a vast reservoir of will. And it has helped him stick it through the worst of the worst. However, supes has broken down from grief on more than one occasion, and from self doubt too.

Goku is also known to be one stubborn fighter. He has shown comparable will as superman. However, he is not stopped by grief.

When his family dies, he still remains tightly focussed on the fight to come. He has never had self doubts (too naive). He has fought with a hole in his chest, and four broken limbs (headbutt). When completely broken, he supported the rest of the fighters by guiding them telepathically. He did the same from beyond the grave.

Conclusion: Supes maybe stubborn, but Goku is the definition of the term hard headed.


Miscalleneous: Another difference in Supes and Goku is that, Goku keeps coming back as a spirit from beyond the dead. If Supes dies, he is probably dead for good. But, Goku keeps intervening in fights, and throwing critical punches, even after he is dead.

Conclusion: Its kinda hard to kill a dead guy !


Final thoughts:

Superman:
If we were to put pre crisis supes in the galaxy snuffing category, power level wise, he would be about half strength of super saiyan 3, which would be potentially universe snuffing strength (less powerful than buu, who could wipe the universe and all other dimensions in a heartbeat.)

However, he does have some advantages, such as the heat (death) ray, much higher speed (which is somewhat balanced by Goku’s instant transport).

He also has some large disadvantages (lower punch power, kryptonite and magic), two of which, GOku can bring to the fight (Punches and magic).

Goku:

Goku will die, if he faces the heat ray. He will be much slower than Supes without instant transport. If he faces Supes' cold breath, he might have a problem too, though he has been frozen on more than one occasion, and saiyans like brolly managed to stay frozen for decades no problem.

Goku can punch harder, move over large distances faster, destroy the universe at will, fight from beyond the grave, use magic (spirit bombs)




So, it really boils down to when pre crisis supes fights Goku. If he does so before the middle of the dbz saga, Goku wouldn’t have half his tricks, and would be only a tenth as strong. Supes would easily destroy goku.

Otherwise, Goku would have a very large upper hand.

I'm a fan of Supes, too. In fact, if you check out my profile "The Death and Life of Superman" is listed as one of my favorite books. I think you are greatly underestimating SSJ4 Goku (and DEFINITELY SSJ4 Gogeta), in terms of raw power though. I don't think any incarnation of Supes, on his best day, could have even a prayer against SSJ4 Gogeta.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

And I'm pretty sure if Tom lifted the locomotive that he'd win hands down seeing as locomotives are heavier than tanks .

So if you see a midget lift a bowling ball, and a 290lb wrestler lift a tennis ball, you're sure the midget would win in a fight, hands down? (Get my point? )

Originally Posted by Jeff777

-sigh- Alright, look man...I'll highlight the bullets.

Superman's strength was increased to the point where he could move entire planets and he was able to fly at speeds faster than light. He could use this power to travel through time as well as fly to other worlds, solar systems and galaxies and even to other universes with relative ease. By the 1970s, Superman was able to withstand the explosion of nuclear weapons with no risk whatsoever and fly unharmed through the core of a star. Superman was also able to survive without air, water, or food. Superman was immune to everything except for Kryptonite radiation and magic.

Superman possessed x-ray vision, allowing him to see through solid objects (except through lead), as well as telescopic vision (seeing great, even interstellar distances) and microscopic vision (seeing small things, even subatomic particles). These powers could be used individually or in conjunction with one another. His eyes could also perceive the full electromagnetic spectrum including infrared and ultraviolet frequencies of radiation. Originally depicted as a by-product of his x-ray vision, Superman's "heat vision" allowed him to generate energy beams which could be used to melt or vaporize almost any substance.

Superman could hear sound at almost any wavelength and at vast distances. Superman's breath was capable of freezing objects (because his lungs were able to put air under tremendous pressure, thus super-cooling it) and generating hurricane-force winds. Superman could throw his voice across great distances. This power was used to confuse enemies or protect his secret identity by tricking others into believing that he (or Clark Kent) was in a different location.

Superman possessed genius-level intelligence and an eidetic memory. These enhanced mental capabilities were a direct result of his exposure to a yellow sun. Superman also possessed the mental ability to screen out the enormous amount of information received by his enhanced senses and to focus on a single detail such as a particular voice or location.

- Source: Wiki.

Superman's speed would essentially mean nothing. Goku's instant transmission works just the same as super speed, allowing him to either evade attacks by teleporting to somewhere near his attacker, or catching up to his attacker, instantaneously, no matter where they went or how fast they traveled. He used it tactically against Cooler, in Cooler's Return, and being that they both had the same ability, it essentially turned into a "phase-fight" to a degree that was never really matched in any other DBZ fight.

I have never seen Goku fly into a star, but having the power to destroy an entire solar system (which is what I was going to bring up about Broly having done) at sub-SSJ3 level, I don't think falling into a star would be much of a problem to him.

As far as strength: Goku has been "shaking" entire planets with his power since before he turned SSJ. I don't think he's ever actually attempted moving one, but logic would cause one to figure that, by SSJ4, he could drop kick a planet into another galaxy.

Superman definitely has an advantage, with the no food, water or air aspect.

Telescopic and microscopic vision wouldn't be much of an advantage for Supes, in a fight against Goku. Though the X-ray vision actually might.

Saiyans have incredible eyesight as well. How good, exactly? I don't know. But good.

Goku has beaten geniuses. When it comes to fighting strategy, he has constantly proven himself to be second to none.


Thought this was pretty awesome.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I'm a fan of Supes, too. In fact, if you check out my profile "The Death and Life of Superman" is listed as one of my favorite books. I think you are greatly underestimating SSJ4 Goku (and DEFINITELY SSJ4 Gogeta), in terms of raw power though. I don't think any incarnation of Supes, on his best day, could have even a prayer against SSJ4 Gogeta.

I admit, I might have gotten a bit ahead of myself by comparing pre-crisis to SSJ4 Gogeta. However, - I still think that pre-crisis Supes could knock out a couple of SSJ4 Goku's teeth and vice versa.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

So if you see a midget lift a bowling ball, and a 290lb wrestler lift a tennis ball, you're sure the midget would win in a fight, hands down? (Get my point? )

Point taken. I assumed though, we were comparing two men who physically seemed to be evenly matched save for the physical extremities that each has accomplished.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

As far as strength: Goku has been "shaking" entire planets with his power since before he turned SSJ. I don't think he's ever actually attempted moving one, but logic would cause one to figure that, by SSJ4, he could drop kick a planet into another galaxy.

Well shaking a planet with ki and drop kicking a planet with physical strength are completely different. While p.c. Supes can easily do the latter...I'm not so sure about Goku. And I say that merely because I'm not entirely positive about the best demonstration of physical strength that Goku demonstrated. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Goku has beaten geniuses. When it comes to fighting strategy, he has constantly proven himself to be second to none.

True. However, - those geniuses, weren't the man of steel himself.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Thought this was pretty awesome.

I enjoyed watching it.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Well shaking a planet with ki and drop kicking a planet with physical strength are completely different. While p.c. Supes can easily do the latter...I'm not so sure about Goku. And I say that merely because I'm not entirely positive about the best demonstration of physical strength that Goku demonstrated. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

Therein lies the problem. Unfortunately, Goku's strongest states were in the later stages of DBZ and DBGT, where everything was less about physicality and more about random, redundant ki blasts and down-scaled explosions. We don't really see too many "feats of raw strength", that I know of. But then again, I know much less about DBGT than I do about DBZ, so I'll look around for some feats of strength. If I find anything definitive, I'll post it.

However, thinking about it this way, in the meantime. Frieza could destroy a planet energy shot from one finger, without depleting any significant amount of his energy. Goku defeated Frieza with ease, at SSJ.

Goku can also propel himself with the power of his ki, which would be a propulsion putting out more than enough energy to destroy a planet - implying that he could move it, if he were to be pushing it.

I think Goku's learning curve is incridible phenomenal, if you have read the 42 books and followed Goku through his strugle, it strikes you how adaptable he is. He always somehow find a solution, and if his opponent is too strong, Goku just keep training and trying until he surpasses his opponent in power.

If somehow Superman was stronger, Goku would teleport to the other end of the universe and train for the amount of time needed, maybe come up with a new technique.

Goku just gets stronger and stronger and stronger.. in a very short time.

I think this curve demonstrate this pretty well, let's say that Goku is green and Superman red.

In the start Superman is much stronger, Goku as a kid could do nothing. Some years later he goes past Superman in power. No matter what Superman can not keep up with him.

I chose superman because I didn't know who goku was until I scrolled down to the pictures.

If goku was really that super then he would be a household name. Superman even had super in his name. no competition....

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

I think Goku's learning curve is incridible phenomenal, if you have read the 42 books and followed Goku through his strugle, it strikes you how adaptable he is. He always somehow find a solution, and if his opponent is too strong, Goku just keep training and trying until he surpasses his opponent in power.

If somehow Superman was stronger, Goku would teleport to the other end of the universe and train for the amount of time needed, maybe come up with a new technique.

Goku just gets stronger and stronger and stronger.. in a very short time.

I think this curve demonstrate this pretty well, let's say that Goku is green and Superman red.

In the start Superman is much stronger, Goku as a kid could do nothing. Some years later he goes past Superman in power. No matter what Superman can not keep up with him.

Most "Goku cock riders" know everything about Goku but little to nothing about the comic Superman. This is why they choose Goku 9 times out of 10. Sad really.

*hugs gokus nuts*

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Most "Goku cock riders" know everything about Goku but little to nothing about the comic Superman. This is why they choose Goku 9 times out of 10. Sad really.

I think that works both ways, actually.

The evidence has been compelling. I join this argument, as a Superman fan. I'm not big on the Asian stuff.

I did and still am doing some study on this. Here is the problem with Oneironaut's saying that "it works both ways."

There is many more people that get involved in this junk that are Goku fans, and Superman fans aren't very educated in the vast world of Superman, were he has not demonstrated his power often. Goku has demonstrated his power way more often. Superman holds back pretty much all the time, and I doubt Superman would want to kill Goku anyhow, but that's beside the subject.

Now, there was one person who was even quoted on his good observation. However, he missed one point or more, but focusing on the problem I see, it would be the fact of willpower.

Stated was the fact that Superman suffers from Grief, and Goku doesn't. While this may be true, the outcome is much different. Superman's will is a different will than that of Goku. It starts strong, then eventually, because of grief it spikes down.

However, as I said, it's different. When Superman hits a certain point, his determination and will go hand in hand a Spike sharply upwards, as demonstrated in 'Our Worlds at War'. The Sharp Spike never stops until Superman accomplishes his goal, which in this case, would be killing Goku.

Another thing was that people are saying Goku is faster than Superman, and that with instant transport, he matches up and Superman doesn't stand a chance. Beep! Wrong answer!

To activate his power, Goku requires the speed of his mind to do the task. He is the greatest known Martial Artist (so far), and his mind is great at knowing his moves and when to apply them. However, Superman at his vast speed wouldn't enable Goku enough time to think, which is a common fact people don't think about to much. Goku once hit, would react soon enough, as long as he would be able to get moving correctly, a very important factor whilst' fighting, an area I expertise in. Superman would get quite a good amount of hits in on this account. Superman however gets into moments where his own mind slows, and he is hit a good amount of hits. That still leaves the question on who wins. Frankly, I dunno. I prefer Superman because of who he is.

More to come.

I think this topic is incredibly retarded.

Originally Posted by Demon Parasite

I think this topic is incredibly retarded.

oh good input, but you've failed to answer the question. who do you think would win?
I don't really know who to think would win....too many factors.

Originally Posted by NoHoldsBarge

I did and still am doing some study on this. Here is the problem with Oneironaut's saying that "it works both ways."

There is many more people that get involved in this junk that are Goku fans, and Superman fans aren't very educated in the vast world of Superman, were he has not demonstrated his power often. Goku has demonstrated his power way more often. Superman holds back pretty much all the time, and I doubt Superman would want to kill Goku anyhow, but that's beside the subject.

Actually, Goku doesn't demonstrate his physical power all that often. Unfortunately, after so long, most of the canon focused more on ki energy (energy orbs and explosions) than on physical power. So, contrary to what you said, I think Superman has shown his 'strength' a lot more than Goku has, seeing as how most of Superman's attacks are feats of brute strength, and most of Goku's have been reduced to how massive an explosion he can make.

Goku is also notorious for holding back. Even to a fault. He shares that same attribute with Superman. His good-natured spirit for battle has been marked as a drawback on many occasions. In fact, it's hard to think of a single enemy Goku has met where he didn't prefer not to kill them.

Stated was the fact that Superman suffers from Grief, and Goku doesn't. While this may be true, the outcome is much different. Superman's will is a different will than that of Goku. It starts strong, then eventually, because of grief it spikes down.

However, as I said, it's different. When Superman hits a certain point, his determination and will go hand in hand a Spike sharply upwards, as demonstrated in 'Our Worlds at War'. The Sharp Spike never stops until Superman accomplishes his goal, which in this case, would be killing Goku.

Who was it that said Goku doesn't suffer from grief? If someone did say that, it's not true at all. Maybe that was interpreted from the stated fact that Goku enjoys a challenge, but that is completely different from saying that he doesn't suffer from grief. Once Goku has his will determined on a certain thing, he accomplishes it. That is actually the basis for the mystique of Goku's power. He rises to nearly every challenge before him. There is not a single enemy (that I can think of) who has beaten Goku due to power alone. They have all had some sort of trump card. Cell had his regeneration and the fact that he never got tired. Buu had his regeneration. Etc. But when it came to the determination to beat an enemy that was 'allegedly' stronger than him, Goku never stopped until he proved himself to be at an energy level as strong or stronger than his enemy.

Another thing was that people are saying Goku is faster than Superman, and that with instant transport, he matches up and Superman doesn't stand a chance. Beep! Wrong answer!

To activate his power, Goku requires the speed of his mind to do the task. He is the greatest known Martial Artist (so far), and his mind is great at knowing his moves and when to apply them. However, Superman at his vast speed wouldn't enable Goku enough time to think, which is a common fact people don't think about to much. Goku once hit, would react soon enough, as long as he would be able to get moving correctly, a very important factor whilst' fighting, an area I expertise in. Superman would get quite a good amount of hits in on this account. Superman however gets into moments where his own mind slows, and he is hit a good amount of hits. That still leaves the question on who wins. Frankly, I dunno. I prefer Superman because of who he is.

You are automatically assuming that Goku's mind isn't fast enough to track Superman's movements. This is debatable. Goku has fought Metal Cooler in a battle of "Instant Transmissions", meaning that both characters were moving faster than the speed of light, and this was without even being a SuperSaiyaJin. There's no question that Goku's mind can track faster than light movements. He does it on numerous occasions.

Originally Posted by Demon Parasite

I think this topic is incredibly retarded.

When someone cares, I'll make sure you're the first to know.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Actually, Goku doesn't demonstrate his physical power all that often. Unfortunately, after so long, most of the canon focused more on ki energy (energy orbs and explosions) than on physical power. So, contrary to what you said, I think Superman has shown his 'strength' a lot more than Goku has, seeing as how most of Superman's attacks are feats of brute strength, and most of Goku's have been reduced to how massive an explosion he can make.

Goku is also notorious for holding back. Even to a fault. He shares that same attribute with Superman. His good-natured spirit for battle has been marked as a drawback on many occasions. In fact, it's hard to think of a single enemy Goku has met where he didn't prefer not to kill them.



Who was it that said Goku doesn't suffer from grief? If someone did say that, it's not true at all. Maybe that was interpreted from the stated fact that Goku enjoys a challenge, but that is completely different from saying that he doesn't suffer from grief. Once Goku has his will determined on a certain thing, he accomplishes it. That is actually the basis for the mystique of Goku's power. He rises to nearly every challenge before him. There is not a single enemy (that I can think of) who has beaten Goku due to power alone. They have all had some sort of trump card. Cell had his regeneration and the fact that he never got tired. Buu had his regeneration. Etc. But when it came to the determination to beat an enemy that was 'allegedly' stronger than him, Goku never stopped until he proved himself to be at an energy level as strong or stronger than his enemy.



You are automatically assuming that Goku's mind isn't fast enough to track Superman's movements. This is debatable. Goku has fought Metal Cooler in a battle of "Instant Transmissions", meaning that both characters were moving faster than the speed of light, and this was without even being a SuperSaiyaJin. There's no question that Goku's mind can track faster than light movements. He does it on numerous occasions.



When someone cares, I'll make sure you're the first to know.

I read this all, good observations. I wasn't being clear, I guess.

First off; I wasn't actually talking about his Physical power. I wasn't talking about his Ki, either. I was talking about the display of feats he produces. Both of them. In a sense, I refer to each task they do. Goku displays his massive power often, and we do not often see him not doing something stunningly amazing, where as Superman does minor things compared to what he can really do, simply because he "...not once, for even a split second do I not watch what I am doing. Always making sure not hurt someone. Never to kill someone... always to hold back, but you can take it, can't you, big man?"

Above is coming from the statistics. There is a small handful of comics that actually show Superman in his Super state, compared to Goku's feats.

Second; I never said he didn't hold back, I'm just saying Superman lets go and unleashes less often, and sometimes, (sadly) not always comparable to Goku.

Thirdly, I'm not in the mood to find this person's particular info, because the host copied and pasted it from some other website and quoted it.

Originally Posted by NoHoldsBarge

Goku displays his massive power often, and we do not often see him not doing something stunningly amazing, where as Superman does minor things compared to what he can really do, simply because he "...not once, for even a split second do I not watch what I am doing. Always making sure not hurt someone. Never to kill someone... always to hold back, but you can take it, can't you, big man?"

If I remember correctly, Superman gave his all when fighting at least one opponent, and that was Doomsday. He wasn't fighting to hurt Doomsday. He was fighting to kill him. I would like to find some proof that - outside of that fight - he has never been driven to attempt to kill another enemy. (Not even Darkseid?) But, even if that was the case, I know that he gave his every effort to kill Doomsday, so that puts that entire theory to scrutiny.

And with Goku displaying his massive power often, there hasn't ever been a single enemy that could withstand it, without having the power to regenerate (if I remember correctly). That means that every single enemy that Goku has gone balls-out against has been destroyed - even if it was only momentarily. I don't believe Superman has the innate power to regenerate, though. So what would happen if Goku actually exhibited enough force to destroy him? He wouldn't have the luxury that so many of Goku's other enemies have had.

Originally Posted by Demon Parasite

I think this topic is incredibly retarded.

I'm sorry. Someone must have misinformed you as to whether we cared about your thoughts regarding this topic.

Look at how weak superman is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-oaSSUpKBo
he can barely beat a wwe wrestler.