• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




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    1. #1
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      Exclamation Seratonin levels, free dreaming, depression etc.

      Hello there people,

      A while ago I had read a big essay about lucid dreaming and the chemicals in your head; including what they do and what happens.
      It said that when you have REM sleep, the seratonin levels get drained because of your dreaming, and when you dont dream, in the normal sleep (NREM), it replenishes.
      A too high level of seratonin causes paranoia, schizoidal episodes etc. A too low level can cause depression.
      Simply put; if we LD too much, actually "work" on getting more dreams, isn't this somehow bad for our health ?
      The essay also advised to do "free dreaming", to not mind too much, so your seratonin levels can get readjusted etc.
      Is there anyone with more information, or maybe a personal view ?
      It would be much appreciated, for I don't want to do anything that might be bad for my well-being..

      Thanks on forehand;

      Feist.
      Lucid dreams: 2 (2 DILD)

    2. #2
      Daka jahnauasca's Avatar
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      could you possibly post a link to the essay?

    3. #3
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      Here it is

      Ofcourse i can;

      http://www.geocities.com/alex_sumner/lucid2.htm

      Just scroll down a tiny bit to the part where it says: LUCID DREAMING AND MENTAL HEALTH


      I will also copy the part of matter here:



      Within the human brain there is a neurotransmitter called Serotonin. Empirical studies have established a number of things about this important chemical, of which the following are germane to this work on Lucid Dreaming:

      * Its presence in the brain at the correct level is vital to good mental health. An abnormally high amount of Serotonin causes Mania (paranoia, schizoidal episodes etc); an abnormally low amount causes Depression.
      * Serotonin is naturally replenished by dreamless sleep: however, REM-sleep (Rapid Eye Movement sleep - the kind in which dreams with strong visual imagery occur) depletes it.

      What has this to do with Lucid Dreaming? Simply put, Lucid Dreaming consists of a collection of techniques which aim at stimulating and enhancing REM-sleep, and thereby depleting the brain's natural Serotonin levels. I mention this because I have come across a large number of people who are interested in the Occult - and who also suffer Depression. I am faced with the growing conviction that the high incidence of Depression among Occultists is either caused or exacerbated by the wrongful use of techniques such as Lucid Dreaming, and like techniques whereby the person retreats into a dream-world.

      Therefore, the following pieces of guidance can be put forward:

      * The excessive use of Lucid Dreaming tends to cause Depression;
      * If a person already suffering from Depression attempts to become a lucid dreamer, they are making their condition worse;
      * If a person is on a course of anti-depressants (e.g. Prozac, Seroxat, etc which work by boosting Serotonin levels), attempting to dream Lucidly will vitiate the effects of the medication.

      In light of the above, I can hardly caution readers wanting to know about Lucid Dreaming too strongly. We may laugh at the fundamentalist Christian or the superstitious low-brow who claims dabbling with the occult is tantamount to truck with demons, and against God's will, but we must laugh at ourselves and our own rank foolishness when the scientist presents evidence to say they might have a point.
      Lucid dreams: 2 (2 DILD)

    4. #4
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      This is what I think:

      You just said too high levels of seratonin can cause mental disorders when you have no dreams. Then you told us too low can cause depression when you have too many. Technically, in lucid dreaming you are neither awake nor asleep. You are conscious but dreaming. It's almost an extreme form of day dream. If you are lucid you can awake at any time as if you are thinking of one thing, and then focus on another. It's a mesh.....not mess. So it should balance out.

      Btw, I lucid dream every night almost and I'm not depressed.
      Last edited by superfun64; 02-16-2008 at 09:43 PM.
      en matsurigoto goshujin mugen itsu shura o za yami

      yu-kirenai rai ware datte nara maro tenshin za ikko tentai, en iyoku tai ato chousen

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    5. #5
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      First off; I do not state these things being true; I read them in an essay about the subject. It is more of a quote of which I ask the relevancy.
      You might decide to read the link I just gave you or read the part I copied in the post, but there's actually something in it that sounds kind of disturbing to me. This is the reason why I ask; to get more information from people who know a lot more about the subject than I do.

      Feist
      Lucid dreams: 2 (2 DILD)

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Feist View Post
      First off; I do not state these things being true; I read them in an essay about the subject. It is more of a quote of which I ask the relevancy.
      You might decide to read the link I just gave you or read the part I copied in the post, but there's actually something in it that sounds kind of disturbing to me. This is the reason why I ask; to get more information from people who know a lot more about the subject than I do.

      Feist
      As far as I know, one cannot force a dream unless already dreaming and the normal amount of time for dreams is as much as you are a asleep. Even though it doesn't feel like it. So lucid dreaming can't really lower it that much. Unless maybe you sleep too much while dreaming.
      en matsurigoto goshujin mugen itsu shura o za yami

      yu-kirenai rai ware datte nara maro tenshin za ikko tentai, en iyoku tai ato chousen

      I'm a rare poster!

    7. #7
      I? Serpent's Avatar
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      Not one reference came from a scientific journal or any sorts...
      To me thats essay if full of BS.

      Low Serotonin causing depression, which is why a lot of people are on SSRI's. All they do it keep serotonin in the synapses.

      Lets see some scientific fact backing this document up. The mere fact thats is has topics such as Telepathic and Precognitive dreams shows that it carnt be a legitment article. No professional in the scientific community with out PROVEN scientific evidence is going to publish something like that.
      Don't believe everything you think

      "Stop living in a dreamworld"

    8. #8
      I am become fish pear Abra's Avatar
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      Lucid dreaming allows dream control, not dream lengthening. We can prevent ourselves from waking prematurely, and we can alter our perception so that the dream feels longer, but we cannot extend a REM period past its natural period of time. So that site's pretty much bunk (I've read it before).

      I bet the author's upset because they were unable to attain a lucid dream when they tried.
      Abraxas

      Quote Originally Posted by OldSparta
      I murdered someone, there was bloody everywhere. On the walls, on my hands. The air smelled metallic, like iron. My mouth... tasted metallic, like iron. The floor was metallic, probably iron

    9. #9
      Daka jahnauasca's Avatar
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      I did some research and stumbled upon this interveiw with Dr. Mark Solms about the effects of dopamine and dreaming http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/...ies/s44369.htm

    10. #10
      I? Serpent's Avatar
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      I dont really see (at all) the correlation between dopamine and brain damage and lucid dreaming and natural serotonin depletion.
      Don't believe everything you think

      "Stop living in a dreamworld"

    11. #11
      Daka jahnauasca's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Serpent View Post
      I dont really see (at all) the correlation between dopamine and brain damage and lucid dreaming and natural serotonin depletion.
      umm... did you read the interview? By studying people with brain damage and lack of dreams it was found that dopamine plays a large role in whether we dream or not. It also points to the fact that dreams can happen outside of REM.
      Since Feist was wondering about the possible effects lucid dreaming could have upon our health, I think that looking at the biology of dreaming would be a first step. So, we know that we need the neurotransmitter serotonin to dream, but what gives us the impetus? Dopamine.

    12. #12
      I? Serpent's Avatar
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      Ahh k, i though you were trying to show that lucid dreaming depletes serotonin
      Don't believe everything you think

      "Stop living in a dreamworld"

    13. #13
      Daka jahnauasca's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Serpent View Post
      Ahh k, i though you were trying to show that lucid dreaming depletes serotonin
      no worries. I like your serpent GIF btw. it took me a sec to realize the motion in the corner of my eye was its tongue lashing out

    14. #14
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      Wow, that's a lot of reply's!

      Thanks for all the info, was more than I expected.
      It also made me feel more comfortable about it and see that the essay might not be completely relevant since it hasn't been written by a scientist, and the information isn't completely backed up.
      Again; I wasn't claiming this was true, I just happened to stumble on it while I was searching for info and wanted to know what your opinions were on the subject.
      Happy dreaming, and thanks again !

      Feist
      Lucid dreams: 2 (2 DILD)

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