Where can I find a low intensity IR laser?

Hey, I am looking for an IR laser. I have searched and mostly only found industrial, several hundred dollar lasers meant for soldering (meant to get very, very hot). I primarily want the laser part because I do not want the IR waves to spread out... I want one focused spot of IR, but I don't want it to be very hot (too intense). It is meant to use with an IR camera, some software, and a projector to create an interactive whiteboard which can be controlled (the mouse) from far away. And while I'm here, does anyone know the best way to get or make some sort of infrared and red laser combo? I want to use the red laser simply for tracking purposes (to know where the infrared will show up). It will probably come down to me finding a low intensity IR laser, a cheap red laser and removing the parts and trying to make it as compact as possible and pointing at the same exact location.

so, let me get this straight

you want to stand on one side of a room, with a laser pointer, pointing a beam at an interactive whiteboard.
This whiteboard is connected to a computer, and moves the mouse
the projector projects the desktop back onto the whiteboard, so you can see the computer cursor (under the laser beam)

yes?

Found this on youtube
This is a video showing the effect of the IR laser in a DVD burner at different intensities

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvWnJJZREM

I only say interactive whiteboard because that's what it would become, not because that's what I get originally. I am not like, getting a smartboard.

Essentially it's like this... I'm going to have a normal projector pointing at an everyday, normal white wall without any special effects. The projector is hooked up to a computer of course and is showing the computer's image on the wall. The infrared camera is pointing at the wall (the projected image) and it reads any infrared light and the software translates that to mouse movement (in this way you can use a tiny IR LED writing on the wall to create an "interactive whiteboard," but that's not what I'm attempting here). So basically the laser will hopefully allow me to be far away and project a concentrated dot onto the projection. Get it?

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Originally Posted by Ynot

Found this on youtube
This is a video showing the effect of the IR laser in a DVD burner at different intensities

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvWnJJZREM

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Well yeah, I have searched a little, but as you can see, those things get very very hot. I don't want a laser that will burn the wall nor a canvas that the image is being projected on. That is dangerous and can ruin a projection surface (especially if it's one of those pull down screens). It can't get very hot.

You'll be using a Wiimote, won't you. :P

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Originally Posted by Korittke

You'll be using a Wiimote, won't you. :P

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Yessir. I've already gotten the actual pen part working. I'm working on a stereoscopic version of the head tracking created by the same guy (Johnny Lee) using filtered glasses and a dual red/blue image (by the way, any programmer willing to help me with this let me know! Ynot I'm sending you a PM!)

What about sunlight? Isn't that going to affect your whiteboard?

may be best to hunt around for software libraries that interface with the Wiimote (there's quite a few)

List here
http://wiibrew.org/index.php?title=Wiimote_Driver

on the face of it, I'd say go with this software library

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wiiuse C Linux/Windows Library

Wiiuse is a library written in C that connects with several Nintendo Wii remotes. Supports motion sensing, IR tracking, nunchuk, classic controller, and the Guitar Hero 3 controller. Single threaded and nonblocking makes a light weight and clean API.

Interprets data collected into meaningful information (ie, joystick angles, true x,y position based on IR sensor bar, etc).

Download: http://wiiuse.net

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The one you linked to in the PM (also in the link above) is Windows only, written in C#
now, there's nothing particularly wrong with that,
but is it the best solution?

If the software's written in ANSI C, then you can target anything
PC's (operating system agnostic), consoles, hell even mobile devices

Also,
I'm confused about the tinted glasses

If you're going to all the trouble of stereo-scopic head tracking, why fake the final 3D image?

Something like this would be cool
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09...video_glasses/

That's 2 screens, each 320x240 px
customize that with the IR sensors on the sides, together with the software calculating the two images, and you got a light, slim design virtual reality headset

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Originally Posted by Goldney

What about sunlight? Isn't that going to affect your whiteboard?

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Nope. Sunlight does not put out a concentrated source of IR that is detected by the wii.

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Originally Posted by Ynot

may be best to hunt around for software libraries that interface with the Wiimote (there's quite a few)

List here
http://wiibrew.org/index.php?title=Wiimote_Driver

on the face of it, I'd say go with this software library


The one you linked to in the PM (also in the link above) is Windows only, written in C#
now, there's nothing particularly wrong with that,
but is it the best solution?

If the software's written in ANSI C, then you can target anything
PC's (operating system agnostic), consoles, hell even mobile devices

Also,
I'm confused about the tinted glasses

If you're going to all the trouble of stereo-scopic head tracking, why fake the final 3D image?

Something like this would be cool
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09...video_glasses/

That's 2 screens, each 320x240 px
customize that with the IR sensors on the sides, together with the software calculating the two images, and you got a light, slim design virtual reality headset

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So is that a no on helping me? :P That's fine... the thing is I can't do anything on my own just because I can't program.

I'm not sure why you are saying it's "faking" the 3D image. The image on the LCD screens is going to look just as 3D as the glasses. This is not really anything new... stereoscopic head tracking has long been used in fields such as engineering, the military, etc. The point of Johnny Lee's software is to provide an accessible solution to people. Using the glasses is certainly the cheapest and most accessible way. Of course I thought of other solutions: using dual projectors operating at distinctly different polarizations and using polarized glasses, time-division multiplexing (basically, get LCD glasses that block vision in synchronization with a rapid changing image on the screen and the two images flash back and forth fast enough to create one image), and lastly, the dual screen. The problem with all of these is that they all cost a LOT. The tinted glasses cost significantly less and JUST as good. The only difference is that the tinted glasses can't portray color, which isn't really a big deal at all.

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Originally Posted by wasup

Yessir. I've already gotten the actual pen part working. I'm working on a stereoscopic version of the head tracking created by the same guy (Johnny Lee) using filtered glasses and a dual red/blue image (by the way, any programmer willing to help me with this let me know! Ynot I'm sending you a PM!)

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That's awesome. I always wondered why nothing like that is out there. It seem like the next logical step to me and I imagine it has quite a profound effect when you combine stereoscopic vision and head tracking.
BTW, does the application use a standard 3D API (OpenGL, Direct3D)? If so, maybe you can try the IZ3D driver and see if it works. It creates 3D anaglyph images by intercepting the rendering API.

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Originally Posted by wasup

So is that a no on helping me?

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not at all
I'll help if I can

I don't have any real experience with graphics (openGL)
but I'm sure I could do something

I'm not understanding what you are trying to do but....
There are thousands of IR lasers on the market that are NOT High Powered IR Lasers for industrial cutting, soldering etc. (some of these are measured in Watts!) and the little demos on Youtube are often 500mW (milli Watts) so you are looking at the wrong type of IR "laser"
The burning types are classified as:
Class 3B (burns flesh and objects)
Class 4 (can burn, cut and fabricate most materials including metals.)
You are looking for Class 3A or lower i.e. Class 2 or Class 1 (I'm not certain what you are doing but none of these will burn anything. Although I seriously doubt you need a Class 3B)on the same note there are IR lasers that already have the "tracking" Visible colored light as part of the package available as well, although the ones I have seen may be a bit clumsy for your application.
Ok that said, you are (I think) also going to need a very specific wave length for your application. Just grabbing an IR laser even if it is as weak as you are wanting, may be very disappointing if it cannot be "seen" by your other apparatus. i.e. the receiver or detector. By this I mean just as we cannot see in the IR most receiver or detectors only pick up very specific wave lengths in the IR spectrum. Think of IR Remote Controls (for controlling TVs, Satellite, Stereos, etc.) if you do not have the right IR controller you are not going to be able to change the channel or turn the volume up or down.

Perhaps you could use an IR TV remote and it's receiver and hack it for your use? Adding a colored pointer for your visible spectrum would be feasible.
One of these guys may be what you are looking for:
http://www.rentron.com/
http://www.crystalaser.com (you can custom order whatever you need in the laser dept.)
http://www.epanorama.net/links/irremote.html

And just remember your invention is not going to be a streamlined, eye appealing apparatus. It will be very boxy and crude unless you can find a product that is on the market already that you can modify for your own use. I.E. using an IR TV remote and it's receiver and hack it for your use.
Good luck and keep us up to date!

Actually, I have already created a pen using an infrared pen that is actually a rather streamlined eye appaeling apparatus. What's great about the system I am using is that it does not look crude so it's "marketable" easily. Also, the infrared pen I used just uses an IR LED and works fine. The IR camera I am using has a pretty wide range of acceptable wave lengths, so that is not that big of a deal.

And thanks Korittke, it definitely should be good.

Ynot: thanks for considering it :D. Is there anything in particular you would like me to do to help get the whole thing started?

Some other ideas I had included a wacom tablet type application which is much cheaper as well. Currently "screen" wacom tablets with pressure sensitivity cost several thousand dollars, but I can drastically reduce the price by using the wii software and putting a force sensor in the pen itself to have it gain that ability. Anyways, just let me know what needs to be done.

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Originally Posted by wasup

Actually, I have already created a pen using an infrared pen that is actually a rather streamlined eye appaeling apparatus. What's great about the system I am using is that it does not look crude so it's "marketable" easily.

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Exactly what I said....
Guess I did not realize by Pen you were referring to an IR LED Pen or I would imagine I would not have written any reply at all eh?

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Originally Posted by Jedi Jeff

Exactly what I said....
Guess I did not realize by Pen you were referring to an IR LED Pen or I would imagine I would not have written any reply at all eh?

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Huh? You are confusing me here. You said anything I make will not look good and streamlined and I said I have already created something that is so. And I AM referring to a laser, but I simply stated that I already created an LED Pen.

Really do not see how you are confused, I snipped a few quotes out of prior conversations to refresh your memory of what I actually said (and exactly what you did) and not what you think I said. As well as what you called the IR LED PEN. I never told you that your "pen" was or was not a laser.
You are just looking for a problems where there aren't any. As where I stated "did not realize by pen you meant a IR LED Pen" was in reference to your conversation: 05-22-2008 04:18 PM

Anymore confusion you may have may just come from you reading what you want to be there and not what is there....

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Originally Posted by Jedi Jeff

I'm not understanding what you are trying to do but....
There are thousands of IR lasers on the market that are NOT High Powered IR Lasers for industrial cutting, soldering etc. (some of these are measured in Watts!) and the little demos on Youtube are often 500mW (milli Watts) so you are looking at the wrong type of IR "laser"

Perhaps you could use an IR TV remote and it's receiver and hack it for your use?

And just remember your invention is not going to be a streamlined, eye appealing apparatus. It will be very boxy and crude unless you can find a product that is on the market already that you can modify for your own use.
Good luck and keep us up to date!

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Originally Posted by wasup

Actually, I have already created a pen using an infrared pen that is actually a rather streamlined eye appaeling apparatus. .

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Oops, I meant using an infrared LED. That's what caused confusion. I created a pen by soldering together a little switch, battery, and an LED. So I created something that wasn't on the market. Understand now?

Yep.