The Fourth Dimension

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10-19-2008, 01:34 AM
Sornaensis

It's a 3D projection drawn on a 2D surface.

A 2D tesseract is a Cube drawn on a 2D surface.

You cannot draw a 4D object from any angle. The only thing you can draw is it's 3D projection.

A drawing of a 3D object can be mimicked in reality-- a 4D object can't.

You can't draw a 4D object. What am I saying that isn't making sense? :?
10-19-2008, 01:35 AM
Kushna Mufeed

I was drawing a tesseract while the teacher was teaching the rest of the kids how to draw 3D vectors.

So, no.
10-19-2008, 01:37 AM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed

I was drawing a tesseract while the teacher was teaching the rest of the kids how to draw 3D vectors.

So, no.

Again, you weren't drawing a tesseract like you might draw a cube-- A mirror to the actual thing.

What you were drawing was basically it's shadow. You can't express four spacial dimensions in three dimensions. I don't care how hard you try. You just end up with a shadow.
10-19-2008, 01:38 AM
Xei

Quote:

What am I saying that isn't making sense?

Pretty much all of it. For a start,

Quote:

A 2D tesseract is a Cube drawn on a 2D surface.

http://www.deimel.org/images/plain_cube.gif

≠

http://nodebox.net/code/data/shared/..._tesseract.png
10-19-2008, 01:40 AM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xei

Pretty much all of it. For a start,

http://www.deimel.org/images/plain_cube.gif

≠

http://nodebox.net/code/data/shared/..._tesseract.png

That's a 3D tesseract on a 2D surface :P
10-19-2008, 01:42 AM
Xei

Explain why the drawing of a tesseract is not a drawing whilst the drawing of the cube is a drawing.
10-19-2008, 01:43 AM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xei

Explain why the drawing of a tesseract is not a drawing whilst the drawing of the cube is a drawing.

It is a drawing. It is a 3 dimensional drawing of a four dimensional object.
10-19-2008, 01:44 AM
Kushna Mufeed

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Again, you weren't drawing a tesseract like you might draw a cube-- A mirror to the actual thing.

What you were drawing was basically it's shadow. You can't express four spacial dimensions in three dimensions. I don't care how hard you try. You just end up with a shadow.

I wasn't drawing it in 3 dimensions. That's called sculpting.
10-19-2008, 01:45 AM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed

I wasn't drawing it in 3 dimensions. That's called sculpting.

What?

You can draw in 3 dimensions on a 2 dimensional surface. :? That's what this discussion is about.
10-19-2008, 01:48 AM
Kushna Mufeed

If you're drawing it on a 2D surface, you are only drawing in 2 dimensions.

BUT

You can still represent 3 dimensions on a 2D surface.

And 4 and 5 and as many as you see fit.
10-19-2008, 01:49 AM
Xei

Ew, I think this is becoming a bit convoluted...

Quote:

That isn't a drawing

Quote:

It is a drawing

Well, at least we agree now.
10-19-2008, 01:52 AM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Ew, I think this is becoming a bit convoluted...

Quote:

That isn't a drawing

When I said drawing there I meant a 4D representation of a 4D object on a 2D surface in 3D space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed

If you're drawing it on a 2D surface, you are only drawing in 2 dimensions.

BUT

You can still represent 3 dimensions on a 2D surface.

And 4 and 5 and as many as you see fit.

Yes, but not in 3D space. Which happens to be the kind we live in :-/
10-19-2008, 01:55 AM
Kushna Mufeed

Lost cause...
10-19-2008, 02:01 AM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed

Lost cause...

It's a pretty simple concept :?
10-19-2008, 02:02 AM
Xei

Quote:

When I said drawing there I meant a 4D representation of a 4D object on a 2D surface in 3D space.

Uh I'll drop out now. :P

To be honest I don't think we should fight over silly things, it's an interesting topic when you don't get hung up about the details.
10-19-2008, 02:03 AM
Sornaensis

All I said was you can't draw a tesseract, and this erupts, so...

++Postcount;
10-19-2008, 02:04 AM
Kushna Mufeed

I know it is.

I'm not saying you CAN draw a 4 dimensional object. I'm saying you can REPRESENT it.

Just like you can't draw a 3D object on a 2D plane. You can only represent it.
10-19-2008, 02:07 AM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed

I know it is.

I'm not saying you CAN draw a 4 dimensional object. I'm saying you can REPRESENT it.

Just like you can't draw a 3D object on a 2D plane. You can only represent it.

Well, not in 2D space, at least. It's all about the space the surface is in.
10-19-2008, 10:46 AM
Bonsay

But drawing IS representing. So you can draw a 4D object on a 3D or a 2D surface. You can't comprehend the extra dimension, so the object you draw will always seem to be a 2D/3D object. Because of our spacial perception the drawn 4D object (Either in 2D or 3D) will look like a "complex" 3D object. I thought this was obvious. As for an actual 4D object being made, that's not possible.
10-19-2008, 05:52 PM
Xei

I have a projection of a tesseract in my room now... made out of geomag. :P

It's really quite cool. I did it a bit different to the standard way (i.e. this thing) by giving it sides of equal length, to make it more realistic... it worked actually. You can see very clearly all 8 cells and how they have been warped in exactly the same way that the faces of a cube are warped when you draw it in 2D. I've also discovered that from the right angle it can be made to look like a cube drawn in 2D, which is interesting.
10-19-2008, 08:25 PM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonsay

But drawing IS representing. So you can draw a 4D object on a 3D or a 2D surface. You can't comprehend the extra dimension, so the object you draw will always seem to be a 2D/3D object. Because of our spacial perception the drawn 4D object (Either in 2D or 3D) will look like a "complex" 3D object. I thought this was obvious. As for an actual 4D object being made, that's not possible.

No, you CAN'T. How many times do I have to explain? It is IMPOSSIBLE to draw a 4D object in 3D space.
10-19-2008, 08:41 PM
Bonsay

Are you going to say it's impossible to draw a 3D object in 2D?
10-19-2008, 08:44 PM
drewmandan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Are you going to say it's impossible to draw a 3D object in 2D?

That is impossible. But you can project a 3d object in 2d, and you can project a 4d object in 2d as well.
10-19-2008, 08:50 PM
Xei

Of course you can draw a 3D object...
10-19-2008, 10:02 PM
Bonsay

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewmandan

That is impossible. But you can project a 3d object in 2d, and you can project a 4d object in 2d as well.

Is this a drawn or projected object?
http://nodebox.net/code/data/shared/..._tesseract.png

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