WILD Without Prior Sleep.

OK, please forgive me if this question has been asked dozens of times before but is it possible to WILD without the 5-6 or so hours of sleep before?

Pretty much every guide i have ever read suggests sleeping prior to the attempt. I understand why this is due to cycles and awareness, but i can very, very rarely get back to sleep after awakening, even if i have only been sleeping for 3 or so hours. So not only does this ruin my chances of LDing, it also ruins the rest of my wakening day. I think when i first starting with my dreaming exploration i managed it a few times after waking from a normal dream several times a night, but alot of the times i was either too excited to try WBTB, WILD, dream entry etc or too frigging tired and fell back to normal dreams.

However, the closest i ever came to wild was when i was woken up early in the morning by another in my house and accidentally entered SP (i panicked because i didn't expect it) but my only two other LDs (yes two :crying:) happened without waking. However, i have recently had some very strong hypnagogic imagery when i am very very tired (which i am every night) that created full engrossing scenes that took me by surprise. In my recent "on purpose" attemts i am getting some pretty decent shapes and bodily sensations. I think where i am every night, due to lack of sleep the night before, is the prefect conditions. Tired enough but mind can still stay active (mostly TOO active).

Sorry for the essay, i just like to illustrate my circumstances as detailed as possible.

Basically, i could sleep if i wanted to but i have enough alertness to keep my mind up for hours if i want - are these good conditions to have? Or my lack of prior sleep the main reason im not breaking through on WILD?

It's possible to WILD without prior sleep, but it's excruciatingly difficult. First, you'll probably have to relax a ton to get into sleep paralysis, for at least an hour in most cases. If you're very tired, that will help. I've seen HI when I was tired before, without sleep beforehand. Since you're not in REM yet, if you do manage to get to sleep paralysis, you'll either enter a very short dream, or fall unconscious and drift asleep.

For most people, it's easier to just do the WBTB and then WILD. It's not really worth the effort.

Okay, for the next few nights i'll attempt the WBTB method properly and see how successful i am, thanks for the info!

Welcome.

how many hours do you sleep a night?
why do you think you have a hard time going back to sleep?

if you have SP and HI right when you fall asleep then i would go for it, but it would most likely be short.

From what i've read into, the best WILD oneironauts can do it on command without prior sleep. Thats the level of mastery i want to attain.

I have a question though, i suppose there is probably a thread for it already but i will ask anyways. For an experienced dreamer is the concept of time malleable... well not so much is it, because i believe it is without a doubt. But have any of you managed that? A really short dream could be a really long dream, i've had non lucid dreams that felt like hours when they were in the span of less than 3 minutes. That was a WBTB experience i suppose, but i want to talk to the people who can do it without prior sleep. i guess i should look for that... sorry i'm new

GU10621, I don't know if you're aware that you can also try napping during the day for WILD attempts?

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Originally Posted by zhineTech

how many hours do you sleep a night?

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For the past few months i have been all over the place, which i know doesn't really help, i sleep pretty late (or early in the morning) and i aim for about 8ish hours, maximum 11/12. Sometimes i only have 3 or 4.

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Originally Posted by zhineTech

why do you think you have a hard time going back to sleep?

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My mind gets too active, and i end up getting distracted by my thoughts to the point where ill give up on sleep and just find something productive to do until i have to get ready for the day.

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Originally Posted by Bobblehat

GU10621, I don't know if you're aware that you can also try napping during the day for WILD attempts?

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I am aware, but i wake up so late in the morning/early in the afternoon on my free days i dont really have the time to nap. Do you mean take a normal nap and that will aid in WILD attempts later on in the night or attempt a WILD during a day nap? Thanks.

Well, I'm a pretty crap WILDer, but I know many can WILD in the afternoon during naps. Interestingly though, I've found out that most of my unintentional false awakenings have occured during the night after days when I've taken an afternoon nap. I don't know if anyone knows if there's any research on that?

There are isochronic and binaural sound files which have the effect of changing brainwave frequencies... for example, most lucid dreams happen in the theta range. I have a light / sound machine that has the same effect, using flashing lights in combination with the sounds to get the brain into the target range, in the case for lucid dreaming, the theta range. Using these as I fall asleep, along with visualizing where I want my dream to begin, I have been able to achieve many WILD's as I fall asleep without having slept previously the same night. The light / sound machines aren't cheap, but the isochronic and binaural sounds are available for free on the internet. One such site for isochronic sounds is Iso-Tones, but if you Google for free Isochronic or Binaural sounds you should find plenty of options. I hope this is helpful. :)

From what I've read, the problem with trying to WILD without prior sleep isn't as much to do with being able to relax enough to enter sleep while staying awake; as you've experienced, as have I, it can be easier going to sleep the first time to experience HH or SP. The problem, I think, happens when you actually fall asleep for the first time each night: you're not able to have a stable lucid dream, or any dream really, because your mind transitions so quickly straight through REM sleep to deeper levels, in which you arguably don't dream at all. So even if you do manage a WILD, it's likely to be a disappointing one.

Hmmm... I never had that problem of my first WILD being unstable... maybe it has to do with the light and sound machine and / or isochronic and binaural sounds keeping the brain in a theta state and thus allowing the lucid dream to be stable. With that, the brain only continues down into the deeper sleep stages after the light / sound or isochronic / binaural program ends.

For some reason my LD's (all WILDS except a few DILDS) have taken place as I am falling asleep for the first time or during an afternoon nap. The afternoon nap LD's have about the same possibility of being either stable or unstable as the falling asleep LD's. My longest has been around 20-30 minutes. I guess it just depends on how tired you are or your previous night's sleep.

But anyway, I am with you dude, as I have never done a WBTB. That just seems way more difficult to me than a WILD falling asleep the first time or an afternoon nap since I would probably not be able to fall back asleep either. I've only tried a few times and found that I just lost more sleep.

I would love to know if you ever tackled your WBTB problem and I would appreciate any tips you (or anyone) can give me. Thanks in advance.

I had my first LD without prior sleep. I had to relax for a long time, but the LD didn't last long. All I did was wake up and go back to sleep.