Control thoughts, or let them drift?

I've attempted two WILDs in the last two days and have failed both for what I perceive to be the same reason.

It seems that when my mind is drifting to sleep, part of that process involves thinking very deeply about some thought or memory that happens to come to me. The thoughts go deeper until I barely realize anymore where I am. This seems an essential part of the process of falling asleep.

Do I have this wrong?

As a result, I've found it impossible, while falling asleep, to remain aware of where I am and the fact that I’m trying to stay aware. So I have a dilemma. If I try to force myself not to think about the random thoughts which come to me, to only think about staying aware and WILDing, I don't get into any deep thoughts and therefore don't fall asleep. If, instead, I let my thoughts drift, I can't at the same time remain aware that I'm dreaming. I've tried repeating something to myself, like 'dreaming,' but that stops as soon as I get too deeply into a thought.

Which of the two methods should I be using? Should I try to control my thoughts, not think about anything else but my intention to remain aware, and somehow fall asleep that way, or should I let my thoughts drift while somehow remaining aware?

Thanks for reading. Any advice is appreciated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

I've attempted two WILDs in the last two days and have failed both for what I perceive to be the same reason.

It seems that when my mind is drifting to sleep, part of that process involves thinking very deeply about some thought or memory that happens to come to me. The thoughts go deeper until I barely realize anymore where I am. This seems an essential part of the process of falling asleep.

Do I have this wrong?

As a result, I've found it impossible to remain aware of where I am and the fact that I’m trying to stay aware. So I have a dilemma. If I try to force myself not to think about the random thoughts which come to me, to only think about staying aware and WILDing, I don't get into any deep thoughts and therefore don't fall asleep. If, instead, I let my thoughts drift, I can't at the same time remain aware that I'm dreaming. I've tried repeating something to myself, like 'dreaming,' but that stops as soon as I get too deeply into a thought.

Which of the two methods should I be using? Should I try not to control my thoughts, not think about anything else, and somehow fall asleep that way, or should I let my thoughts drift while somehow remaining aware?

Thanks for reading. Any advice is appreciated.

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The idea of WILD is to fall asleep. But not to let your mind fall asleep. if you
understand what I mean. Your mind is you, your consciousness. Your body however
is a tool for your mind. Usually your mind falls asleep first, but with WILDs your mind
should never fall asleep. You will be "awake" for the entire dream. Heres how
normal sleep works:

- the mind starts to wander and think
- the mind then drifts off to sleep
- the body, after receiving know movement signals wonders if the mind has gone to sleep
- the body sends a test signal, telling the mind it is uncomfortable
- as the mind is asleep, it does not receive this signal and the body gets no response
- the body now knows the mind is asleep and follows suit.

Heres how WILD works:
- The mind stays awake but is careful not to send any signals to the body
- The body, receiving no instructions from the mind tests the mind to see if it is asleep
- The mind receives the "im uncomfortable, please shift position" signal
- The mind of a WILDer resists the strong urge to move and deceives the body
- The body, receiving no signal, goes to sleep
- The brain begins the REM process and a dream forms in front of your eyes.

So use some sort of anchor to keep your mind awake while your body falls asleep.
Some good anchors are:
-counting ( 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... until you enter SP )
-Focus on Hypnagogic imagery ( Your brain will practically present you a light show as your body falls asleep so enjoy )
-Focus on your breathing ( Observe but try not to control )


Hope this helps,
~Wes

Thanks. My question wasn't directly answered, but it seems the implied answer is that I should not let my thoughts drift.

I'm still a bit confused about whether I should
A) let my thoughts drift while remaining aware at some other level, or
B) not let my thoughts drift and only focus on being aware

The Nicholas Newport tutorial, and Shadow27's response, make it seem as though (B) is the method I should be using.

But the lengthy post "Why You Fail at WILDs" by Mzzkc which emphasizes the 'falling asleep' part of the WILD makes it seem as though I should be using (A).

B is correct, drifting thoughts will inevitably cause your mind to fall asleep which will
lead into, most-likely, a non-lucid dream. If you stay awake while your body falls asleep
you will enter a dream with full awareness.

According to Kromoh's WILD revised tutorial here, as you
enter sleep paralysis, your muscle movements will be shut off and you will actually be able to control a body in your hypnagogics
instead. The scene created in the hallucinations will then be built up into a full lucid dream.

I have not gotten to this point but it seems very sound to me and I am
working for WILD with that in mind. I'd say take a look at Kromoh's tutorial
it is very good.

Good luck with your WILDing :D

The only way for me is to control the thoughts. I have to do my best not to think any words at all. Although I can use visualization. If I just can not keep my thoughts silent, it helps if I keep my mind focused on visualizing. My favorite visualization is to draw numbers .Either picture myself drawing with a black marker on sheets of white paper, or notebook. Or to visualize drawing numbers on a chalk board. Not using words to count as I draw. Just picturing the drawn numbers if you know what I mean. This usually pulls me into the scene fairly quickly. I actually discovered this method as a kid as a means to beat insomnia. I was pretty surprised when I started finding myself actually in the scene I was visualizing.

But my favorite WILD method( maybe after a few moments of focusing on relaxing muscles) is to just keep a completely silent mind and just listen. If you can keep silent long enough, words and sentences. And possibly any manner of other random bizarre sounds will begin to manifest all on there own. I always find this very fascinating. And if you are able to continue listening, the sounds will then form into images, and you may then find yourself suddenly in the middle of a dream Lucid. Sometimes though, I will skip right past the audio and find myself right in the dream. Also, sometimes odd physical sensations may be experienced during the process. Like floating, spinning, or sinking, for just a few examples. I've never experienced any full on SP type symptoms like many people report. Just a bit of the floating sinking spinning stuff, maybe a little numbness once in a while.

My biggest problem with WILDing isn't getting there. I have difficulty maintaining it for a decent length of time once I get there. I come out them too easy. The experience is still fascinating and fun anyway though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shadow27

The idea of WILD is to fall asleep. But not to let your mind fall asleep. if you
understand what I mean. Your mind is you, your consciousness. Your body however
is a tool for your mind. Usually your mind falls asleep first, but with WILDs your mind
should never fall asleep. You will be "awake" for the entire dream. Heres how
normal sleep works:

- the mind starts to wander and think
- the mind then drifts off to sleep
- the body, after receiving know movement signals wonders if the mind has gone to sleep
- the body sends a test signal, telling the mind it is uncomfortable
- as the mind is asleep, it does not receive this signal and the body gets no response
- the body now knows the mind is asleep and follows suit.

Heres how WILD works:
- The mind stays awake but is careful not to send any signals to the body
- The body, receiving no instructions from the mind tests the mind to see if it is asleep
- The mind receives the "im uncomfortable, please shift position" signal
- The mind of a WILDer resists the strong urge to move and deceives the body
- The body, receiving no signal, goes to sleep
- The brain begins the REM process and a dream forms in front of your eyes.

So use some sort of anchor to keep your mind awake while your body falls asleep.
Some good anchors are:
-counting ( 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... until you enter SP )
-Focus on Hypnagogic imagery ( Your brain will practically present you a light show as your body falls asleep so enjoy )
-Focus on your breathing ( Observe but try not to control )


Hope this helps,
~Wes

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OMG that's why i've kept on failing WILDS...... i move my body :( I'll try not to now that i know..... THANK YOU!!!!!!! :)

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Originally Posted by gameoverlord345

OMG that's why i've kept on failing WILDS...... i move my body :( I'll try not to now that i know..... THANK YOU!!!!!!! :)

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No problem

I tried it again this morning and got a bit closer. I got that buzzing/vibration feeling for longer than I have before.

I didn't go into a LD, and spent about an hour with no results becuase I have a really bad problem in which I seem to get an urge to swallow about every 10 seconds while trying to WILD. But I'm glad I actually stayed conscious for a good minute or so during a sleep stage. I didn't get any imagery and it wasn't a success, but at least I've gotten more practice with entering sleep and am hopefully getting closer to successfully WILDing.

I did have a false awakening. I got up from my bed, thought I had failed and was too tired of it to try anymore, decided to take a shower, went over to my closet, did a reality check and realized I was dreaming. But I woke up immediately. I guess I won't count that as a LD.

Thanks everyone. This thread has cleared some things up for me. Now I focus on the swallowing problem. If I didn't get that, it seems it would be so easy. I don't have much trouble ignoring urges to roll over or itches, it's just having to swallow every 10 seconds that's making WILDing seem nearly impossible. I guess the urge to swallow went away this morning at some point, because I was conscious during some sleep stage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

I tried it again this morning and got a bit closer. I got that buzzing/vibration feeling for longer than I have before.

I didn't go into a LD, and spent about an hour with no results becuase I have a really bad problem in which I seem to get an urge to swallow about every 10 seconds while trying to WILD. But I'm glad I actually stayed conscious for a good minute or so during a sleep stage. I didn't get any imagery and it wasn't a success, but at least I've gotten more practice with entering sleep and am hopefully getting closer to successfully WILDing.

I did have a false awakening. I got up from my bed, thought I had failed and was too tired of it to try anymore, decided to take a shower, went over to my closet, did a reality check and realized I was dreaming. But I woke up immediately. I guess I won't count that as a LD.

Thanks everyone. This thread has cleared some things up for me. Now I focus on the swallowing problem. If I didn't get that, it seems it would be so easy. I don't have much trouble ignoring urges to roll over or itches, it's just having to swallow every 10 seconds that's making WILDing seem nearly impossible. I guess the urge to swallow went away this morning at some point, because I was conscious during some sleep stage.

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For swallowing try tilitng your head to the side.

I'm going to start a new thread about the swallowing thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

I did have a false awakening. I got up from my bed, thought I had failed and was too tired of it to try anymore, decided to take a shower, went over to my closet, did a reality check and realized I was dreaming. But I woke up immediately. I guess I won't count that as a LD.

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Cool. This is something I've read about people experiencing over at Mortal Mist. I think some people have actually turned it into a WILD technique. And they have a name for it. I forget what they are calling it though. I think it's basically when laying there trying to WILD and you think you are unsuccessful but you have actually already entered a dream. And from there you can get up into a Lucid Dream. I've never experienced this myself, but it sounds like you just did. Too bad the RC woke you up. I have that problem too, if I do an RC too early in the dream. It kind of startles me awake or something.

You're getting closer already. Nice work. :)

EDIT: Just went and did some looking. They are calling it INRALD. Here is a link to a thread on it if you are interested in reading about it.

http://mortalmist.com/forum/techniqu...-dream-inrald/

Personally, Dianeva, I've been very sucessful at WILDing when I let my mind drift as I go to sleep. I read "Why You Fail at WILDs" by Mzzkc as well and his method works for me. I just mentally tell myself to 'be aware of the shift and become concious in the dream' a few times and simply relax and let things go as they go and trust that I'm going to notice I'm dreaming and go to sleep. It's a method that works for me.

That's not to say that the traditional technique for WILDing isn't right. Nothing can really be considered wrong when you do this. It just simply comes down to what works best for you. Take some time and try out both methods and see what works best for you. I hope this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kaze

Personally, Dianeva, I've been very sucessful at WILDing when I let my mind drift as I go to sleep. I read "Why You Fail at WILDs" by Mzzkc as well and his method works for me. I just mentally tell myself to 'be aware of the shift and become concious in the dream' a few times and simply relax and let things go as they go and trust that I'm going to notice I'm dreaming and go to sleep. It's a method that works for me.

That's not to say that the traditional technique for WILDing isn't right. Nothing can really be considered wrong when you do this. It just simply comes down to what works best for you. Take some time and try out both methods and see what works best for you. I hope this helps.

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I've read some people are good at doing it that way. I'm too much of an insomniac to allow my thoughts to drift too much. I bet if you can do it that way it would make the transition smoother. Flowing into the dream without being startled awake by the sudden appearance of random Hi and dream scenes. I think I would have a lot of trouble staying aware through that process though.

Drifting can work, that is the whole point of an anchor.