A Totally unorthodox first-time WILD. What the hell?

:muffin::muffin::muffin::muffin::muffin::muffin:
:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

Today I'm very happy because I have succeded i my first pure WILD! I have WILDed before but it was either accidentally, or partially. Except from my joy, I have been a little mindf**ked because it was totally unorthodox and a bunch of questions are in my head right now. I seek help from the more/most experienced

I've been trying for at least a month to have a WILD, I usually had DILDs and DEILDs but I decided I'll make it. I did many things wrong, trying at night, or at WBTBs I stayed up for too little but today, I did it and I don't know why it worked! I slept at 23:30, set an alarm for 4 am, but I woke up naturally at 3:26. I disabled the alarm and switched on the computer.


I spent almost exactly an hour reading other ppls DJs and then I layed in bed at about 4:30, on my side. Laying on my side is not my regular position, I just heard it helps, and I also can't stand laying on the back. after 7-10 minutes of laying completely still, I switched positions, because I also read it helps. I stood again on my side but from the... :shadewink: ...other side YEEEAH.

Anyway, I layed there totally still watching hypnagogics and breathing, started with a :drool::drool::drool::drool: issue but overcame it soon (3-4 min). The problem is, I stayed there till I got bored, following every piece of advice I ever had. And surprise, I did NOT make it.

-What?
-Yes, exactly.

I said f**k it, it ain't gonna work, I did this many times and leads to the same result, nothing. But still, it was 5:30 and I needed sleep, I couldn't get up, had no reason to, so I switched to my favourite position (on stomach) and said, I'll fall asleep, no efforts anything. 10-15 mins pass and I haven't fallen asleep and suddenly,

BAM! Sleep paralysis baby! The room turned red, I was totally paralyzed and there were some serious vibes into my head. Took a while to stabilize but finally did! And we come to the first paradox,

I am not surprised that I entered SP while trying to fall asleep, that's the purpose of WILD, to consciously fall asleep, but I literaly gave up, moved normally after 1 hour of conscious efforts to stay still, looked at the time and switch positions. This is some serious movement, right? So when I layed, SP came in 10 minutes!! How is that even possible? What's wrong with my brain?

It's no use explaining how the dream was, it's already in my DJ, the thing is it was too short! Lasted about a total of 4 minutes, mostly spent on stabilizing and DEILDs. Isn't WILD supposed to be longer, and on final REM stages even longer? I am sure it wasn't enthusiasm that woke me up, I was totally calm and prepared, check my DJ if you want to see what happened, But why was it that short? Is it gonna be like that next time?


I am happy but confused. I made it and didn't make it the same time, I need your advice people!



:cheers:

I don't see anything strange with your WILD. There is no such thing as orthodox WILD. You say you have read many tutorials, and I bet they are all different. That's for a good reason. Every method may work for somebody, and every experience is different.

You are allowed to swallow - that's how you fall asleep every night, afterall.

And you are allowed to move - when you go to sleep normally, sometimes you toss and turn, even just minutes before you fall asleep and you still fall asleep. If you make consious effort to not move, you are paying too much attention to your body and to the effort, when your attention or lack there of should be somewhere else, not on your body. You can entertain yourself by watching the show behind your closed eyelids, trying to visualize your dream, recall previous dreams to get you in that dreamy state. You can repeat your mantras, but without too much effort. Main goal should be just to fall asleep, while keeping your mind slightly on this side of awareness.

SP - you probably experienced normal falling asleep sensations, not SP. But you don't need SP to WILD, so it doesn't matter if you did or didn't.

I'm not really sure why you don't think you succeeded. You got into a lucid dream, afterall. The goal was to get lucid, not to not swallow, not move, experience SP and all those "steps" you "must" go through to have successfull lucid. None of those steps matter, if you get a WILD.

I have one more tutorial for you to read. Hopefully it will answer your questions in better detail.

So, the hard part is behind you. Now you know how a WILD feels and I'm sure you will have many more. Happy dreams :alien:

Thanks a lot gab, this set of tutorials is the most detailed I've seen. The only thing I worry about is why my cycle worked like that, it seems I have a lot of testing to do. By the way, someone posted after me in the general lucid discussion section and it has been given my name as starter accidentally

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tangerine

Thanks a lot gab, this set of tutorials is the most detailed I've seen. The only thing I worry about is why my cycle worked like that, it seems I have a lot of testing to do. By the way, someone posted after me in the general lucid discussion section and it has been given my name as starter accidentally

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I have moved this thread from General Lucid here, to WILD. Is that what you mean?

And no worries about reading many tutorials. All of them are just for your information, so you know, what you may encounter. By no means you need to follow any of them. You are most likely to develop your own style anyway, taking bits and pieces from here and there.

And I agree - every single attempt at WILD is a test. None of my attempts went exactly the same way. Each of them is different. So don't be surprised, if next time you don't have vibrations, but you see dreams behind your eyelids, or hear something, or non of that. It can go so many different ways. Every time I say 'Oh, this is how you do it', next time I experience something else. So just read up so there are no surprises, and enjoy the ride. Happy dreams:alien:

Oh about this accident thing, it was nothing, just me being a noob, it was actually the last poster's name!

You know I'm a little worried because of what you said about SP, because I felt it as described, vibrations all over, darkness taking over vision, total numbness and inabillity to move, and if this wasn't SP, I think I'll never make it! I mean is it even possible to reach REM sleep without SP? How do you distinguish it? I'm just asking because this SPless WILD was in no tutorial I read and you probably know something more

:cheers:

I am going crazy :holyshit: The people who don't try are the people that succeed... ^-^ I have noticed the pattern before but now it's more clear than ever...

First my friend who didn't knew what an OBE was an he just wanted to sleep --> He got OBE and even proof that he was indeed out of body.

Me (as a newbie and as I am now but between breaks) I just want to go to sleep, mostly because it's a late bedtime and I don't expect to get a lucid dream that night ---> I got lucid that night.

And now you tangerine as you try to go to sleep and in that moment your goal was to fall asleep and not to WILD ----> You succeed a WILD.

Hmm how does one substanitate a pattern like this? It's easy to say that we were all just lucky, but there are reasons for other explanations.
And it is needed because if we figure this out we might have the best method at our disposal!

So far I know that the key is to not try.. Hmm I am basically trying to understand what Yoda meant when he said "Do, there is no try!".

Anyway thanks for sharing your experience tangerine :) You sure made me think again, and I like to think alot :roll: ^^

To be or not to be, that's the question. :meditate:

Thanks MasterMind, I think I finally know the key. It's just to fall asleep. All the techniques for relaxation and visualisations etc are all good but, I was putting waaay too much effort!! :microwave: It seems that the key is just to fall asleep. You don't need to consciously relax, when you sleep at your regular position you relax, the only thing left is the awareness part. Tonight I'm trying a new thing based on that suggestion and I'll be back with feedback!


:cheers:

So I'm back with the new thing I was talking about! It's my second day in dreamviews, yesterday I had my first WILD after weeks of having one and today I had the second just by representing the thing I did yesterday! It's such a personal thing, I think it won't work for everybody, if it hardly works for somebody, but I think can be adjusted easily to one's personal cycle to make it happen.


So I wake up at REM with my alarm, after 5 hours of sleep, (4:00 am) snoozed the alarm, closed my eyes and thought about the dream I've just waken up from, recorded it on my little media player for later writing-down on the DJ, stood up and just went to the bathroom to empty my bladder, drank a glass of water and watched TV for 4 minutes exactly, just to wake my mind up. OK, the key here is to wake your mind up, but not too much (like staying up for 1 hour) relief your body a little by doing pleasant tasks, (bathroom, hydration, tv) but not putting too much effort on it (relaxation techniques, stretching,though some stretching couldn't hurt, but I avoided anything too complex).

:goodidea: :goodidea: :goodidea:

Until that point, I did whatever someone does if he wakes up in the middle of the night but then, I think you expect to hear about a usual WILD attempt. Well, no. But the idea was fairly simple. Relax your body and prepare your mind from bed. What I did was lie in my favourite position, (stomach) but with a discomfort. I chose to put my hand under my chest cutting the blood and pressing for a little, but anything should work. This was to stimulate me while relaxing!:laugh::laugh::laugh: What? Yes, stimulate the brain while the body relaxes at the first stage, but the main purpose was to stay awake for the first 10-15 minutes before changing position.

After 10-15 minutes, I switched position to an uncomfortable one, (for me) the side. But with no additional discomforts, as it was uncomfortable enough by itself! This was to serve the purpose of the first position, just a bit differently. It differed in:
1. I switched position so this is a fresh start for the mind, always helps
2. Except of prearranged discomfort, I chose a natural position which is doscomfortable to me, so I keep the same idea (mind stimulated, body relaxed while being dizzy and sleepy) with slowly relieving the pain when changing positions. This position is also for 10-15 minutes.

Final position is your regular comfortable sleeping position. Without much thought. I moved from the last position, watched at the time, almost 30 mins have passed from when I laid on bed, switched to my favourite position (stomach) and hoped for the best, having as a goal not to WILD, but fall asleep. After about 15 minutes, I feel a great emotional discomfort, like I am locked up somewhere or worry about something too much, and after 1 min of ignorance, BAM, vibes, things spinning and OBE! (I mean WILD that I wake up from my bed, like FA but conscious. Not astral crap and other new-age nonsense).

It seems my 3 switched positions stimulated AND relaxed me enough to effortlessly lay and try NOTHING but fall asleep, and getting straight into a WILD. I probably simulated the state-of-mind and body where someone accidentally WILDs! and that's great!

:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

I'll be back with my DJ entries, now I'm already late for school!


:cheers:

I liked everything! (except the part with astral crap new-age nonsense ^-^) No harm done, I am just saying explore and expand your awareness and see what you find :) With this new "ability" you have an oppurunity to explore your own adventure. Check out some more pragmatic OBE/astral projection explorers like Robert Monroe or Thomas Campbell and then see if you get the same conclusions.
Or no, even better explore it yourself first and then see if it matches these people's "crazy" stories!

So let me get this straight, you moved each time you felt uncomfortable? And this was enough to keep your mind awake?
And how did you know when it had passed 10-15 min?

Once again tangerine, thanks for sharing and holy bananas --> :banana: you are a first learner. Perhaps because you do what others doesn't:

The greatest worth is selfmastery, the greatest percept is continual awareness, the greatest action is not confirming with the world's ways.

Keep us updated!

Inlakesh :meditate:

Thanks for your kind words mastermind!

I believe in the astral projection thing, actually what I do in WILDs to get to a dream is an OBE. Even I do believe in shared dreaming, because I have experienced some as a child and I hope to see it explained. I just don't agree with the spiritual metaphysical thing, sorry if I offended you in any way, but it just seems too fake and scammy to me, but that's just me :content:

Anyway, in my technique I didn't just move when I was uncomfortable, I used a series of sleep positions that would serve two purposes. Keeping my mind slightly annoyed through light pain/disturbance, but enabling my body to relax, and by the way I found out that this -if you move your body, then you have to start all over- thing isn't valid at all. So I found three positions that will keep my body relaxed until the state of sleep but my mind awake. The first was laying on my regular position with additional disturbance (hand under my chest, so that it is pressed), then slowly decreasing the amount of annoyance just by switching into another position some people prefer but it is kind of uncomfortable to me, (laying on my side position) and finally just sleep without disturbance in my regular position and the time will be enough to keep you awake while drifting off.

It's just a matter of good timng, you relax your body but not your conscious mind in the same rate, as you would do in normal sleep, you delay the relaxation of the mind and you let go in the end, so your body desynchronizes and falls asleep before the mind without extra relaxation, breath control, whatever.

I thought I would never make it with the WILD thiing, but I found my way and worked both times! I am happy to be confirmed!

Thanks for the link, this really puts things in prespective after all!

Oh I forgot, about the time, I have a good sense of time so I don't have to use an aid, but it's best to use a custom alarm like nick newport's interval OBE timer, or a custom mp3 to do its job and then stop by itself, I think the CANWILD technique is good by the way, I had accidental lucid dreams based on this idea, sounds woke me in waking SP nad had some FA-WILDs years ago, have you tried it?

:cheers:

Thanks :) And don't worry I am not offended, I don't understand the metaphysical either.
The important thing is the information you attain from it and what you learn from it. If there is such a thing like personal guides and higher beings that wants to help you, then that's just a plus.
You don't even have to believe the astral exists or that you are out of body, the important thing is that you learn and that it is beneficial to you.

I mean do you ever walk around in the real world asking yourself if it's real and if you should consider the facts the teacher tells you as real? Well maybe if your weird like me, but if your a normal person you wont do that ^-^. So why do it in the dream? However if it is possible to OBE out in the Real Time Zone as Monroe did well then I am very excited because then I can go to freaking space! And for Monroe the OBE state in itself was a proof that our awareness survives physical death.

Check my signature for inspiration :) And if you want to see dreams in my perspective, check out this other theory of dimensions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPkX0iOVX18 (And think about what frequency we dream in :content:)

And to induce FA-WILDs:

Yes I have tried the timer-method that Nicholas Newsport talked about. I actually got my first DEILD with it, it was so strange and annoying, but I achieved my goal: lucidity.

First I just fall asleep then the alarm wake me up, and I just go back to sleep again I did this over and over until I just felt different in my awareness somehow.

I literally saw the dream form infront of my eyes. But even if it was a good method to induce lucid dreams, it leaved me tired for the rest of the day, so that's why I stopped using it.

I will try to meditate and move and swtich postures at the same time, it will be a cool variation and perhaps I even can induce a lucid dream that way and it completley erases the problem of being uncomfortable ;)

Thanks a lot MasterMind, you gave me a lot of food for thought!

By the way,, I've tried a lot of newport's techniques, this guy is very dedicated and I still use some of his tips 'n' tricks, but the problem remains that you have to find what's best for you, though the dream tips almost always work, the induction part is almost always different from person to person. On using his timer, I would really suggest so, not for his techniques but for a personal setting like my little technique. It really can help as a dedicated interval alarm, in any methodical task, even reality checks! Though I prefer to use the traditional mp3 way if the task is so complex and I can't just calculate by my sense only. That means setting and mp3 file to certain minutes of void (no sound), and then alarms after silence gaps, as you would do with a regular interval alarm. But it's better because you can use a little media player with some speakers connected and not a whole bunch of things, like a computer (which is a waste of energy anyway, not worth for just a little alarm) and all those stuff.


Thanks for trying part of my technique, I hope it works for you as it does for me! Keep me up!

Your signature rocks, I hope I could have one but I'm not yet 7 days registered! I could have registered many years ago you know, I was even reading threads from this forum unregistered, but I prefered to work alone. I was totally wrong!

:cheers:

Thanks :) My signature is actually just a cool moon picture I found somewhere and then I used pixlr.com to edit use the floating man from Johnossi's Mavericks album :shadewink:
I will combine my usual meditation with movement tonight :sleepmeditate2:

Hey MasterMind

Unfortunately I didn't make it tonight :( :cry:

But don't worry this was because my parents were leaving for a business trip in the early morning, so there was a lot of noise around and I had to help them out, my WBTB was ruined, so after 2 hours of awakening, they left. If I went to sleep, I'd miss school, so I stayed up and now I have to go. Tomorrow I will confirm it and I'll tell you the news.

Hope for good news from you!!

:cheers:

Aww ok too bad :( But don't be discouraged, because I got good news ;)

Don't know if I am the best test person, because I have vivid dreams generally, although this night I got extremely vivid dreams and it helped me get aware!

I went up after 6 hours, went to the bathroom and then I actually played some playstation for 7 minutes (Payday) ^-^

Then I went to bed in a posture on my back but I stopped the blood pressure in my right arm to add some uncomfortable sensation that would keep me aware and awake.

I started to focus on my breath and meditated, then I thought it had gone maybe 6 minutes, I was very uncomfortable to make sure I was awake but still relaxed in my body if that makes sense.

Then I switched to my side and added and uncomfortable thing in that posture as well, I changed posture before the 10 minute mark here as well.

Back to my back still with the uncomfortable thing added and then after some minutes I switched to my side without the uncomfortable feeling.

It was like my body thanked me, and I started to feel weird sensations in my face and my legs, very vague but it felt like my whole face and arms was getting to sleep. (You know the feeling one get when a body part fall asleep).

Then I just focus on trying to fall asleep normally and well I don't remember transitioning so I can't say that it was a perfect WILD, but I was very aware when in the dream so I did transitioned more aware than usual that leaved me aware in the dream. And later on I got lucid, not perfectly aware but at least lucid, so it was a good attempt and result. :)

I realized I was dreaming but...
I wasn't aware that my dream characters wasn't real so I started to talk to a girl and she told me that "She hadn't finished our group homework and it was good that she met me in my dream, so she could tell me" o. O I asked her abou details so I could confirm when I woke up and she started to talk about lots of random stuff. But when I woke up I realized I didn't knew her... xD

I have lot's of Philosophy to study so I don't have time to write in my DJ until next week. But I thought this was important for you to know ;)
I will continue doing this passive, movement meditation and I will try it at my bedtime tonight and see if I can get lucid in the first REM period as well!

It's sort of like Qui Gong or something, you aware of your movements and your body but still in a meditative state. Then just let go and fall asleep and your guaranteed a more vivid and aware dream. DILD = Dream Yoga WILD = Qui Gong + Yoga Nidra Meditation o. O Damn Asians... Oh wait I am Asian too..

Anyway this may help us find a way to be aware with our minds all night long, if we choose to!
Sweet dreams! :sleepmeditate2:

Hey MasterMind

Glad you had some results with this one! I've noticed aswell how the dream becomes more vivid, too much more vivid than regular DILD! maybe because of the higher activity of the aware mind. If you ever checked my DJ, you'll see that I have difficulty in dream control due to the extreme vividness of my latest WILDs!

Thanks for relieving me, now that I know it has some effect in other people, I have to master it! It will probably work in the first REM period, although it is suggested not to even try it, I think because of this technique's style, it might passively keep you up! But it's prefered to be done in a WBTB. Anyways, try it and tell me if it worked!


:cheers:

My friend had insomnia, Robert Monroe had insomnia, and I have heard of other people having insomnia and witnessing the first stage of sleep and they all had one thing in common.

They witnessed their body fall asleep and then later on "leaved" their body well in other words they got an OBE.

If insomnia can do that I am more than glad to welcome a self induced insomnia to my life, I am interested to see if it's possible for me to not being able to sleep as well, because I have always been able to fall asleep easily. This is also a great meditation practise for me (to let go of ego), my body wiill be uncomfortable, but my mind will feel free and aware. But in the end the body will fall asleep and the mind remain aware.

If we manage to WILD or even get an Real Time Zone OBE with this method at bedtime, we have not only written history in our own career, we have by then also figured out a simple method of how to do it!

And if we are lucky we can observe the things that happens to us right before sleep and maybe understand the difference between an OBE and a Dream :)

Robert Monroe have already answered all of this, but if we manage to get the same results as him, we can confirm it. :panic:

And of course we have at the same time achieved every oneironaut's biggest goal, figured out how to go from waking consciousness and lucid dream at will!

As you can see I am a big dreamer, but I really believe that we can do this!

Good luck to you tonight ;)

Hey thanks, you too!

I hope we'll all make it one day, lucid dreaming at will should be awesome!
for now it's just practice practice practice

Thanks a lot everyone, for helping me find my way!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MasterMind

I am going crazy :holyshit: The people who don't try are the people that succeed... ^-^ I have noticed the pattern before but now it's more clear than ever...

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I tried for 2 months before I had my first lucid dream, then stopped trying during the summer. Sometime around when school started I remembered and came back here and that night I had 2 LDs, then a few more and a couple WILDs without doing anything. I don't think we need techniques or specific rules of what to do, just knowing you can do it will make it a lot easier. But RCs do help me, that's how I've had all my LDs except the 2 WILDs.

Me and tangerine have talked and tried with a passive way to induce a lucid dream, and it is actually really easy.
There is not much difference from other WILD methods, but there is one key difference.

Without explaining the exact theories behind it, these are the exact steps:

1. (Optional) WBTB
2. Lay still + Uncomfortable posture -> 10-15 min interval + movements
3.

Strange sensations? -> Choose comfortable posture and fall asleep! -> DILD

More patient? -> Continue doing step 2 until you reach the vibrational state. -> WILD possibly OBE

Use a WBTB if you want with that it's almost guaranteed that you succeed. (only success so far). Tangerine, his friend and me all achieved lucidity in the same night by doing it with a WBTB!

I am also focused on Yoga Nidra though (Conscious Sleep through out the entire night) and in order to make that work you need to be able to achieve a meditative state.

A fun way to describe it is that you should be able to look at a rock for hours without getting boored :content: But in this case we focus on the breath.

We used postures and added a uncomfortable factor like stopping the blood pressure in our arm by positioning it right under our back if we were laying on the back. Be creative!

But without a WBTB your body is really tired so at least I ended up falling asleep in these postures at bedtime as well, so I looked up people that described meditation and the falling asleep problem,

and the soultion was to choose a regular meditative posture like the lotus or another regular meditation posture.

And here is the key thing... You are not supposed to lay still! Well for 10-15 minutes or longer, but you are still allowed to change posture and that makes it so much simplier!

So in other words next time you feel that you really want to move during a WILD attempt, feel free to do so! Just don't stop the attempt, just continue it after you have moved a little.

The attempt is finished when you achieve the vibrational state! :meditate: ~ ~ ~ ~ > :superman: And you can fly!

Or you can fall asleep before (with at least 3 intervals done ca 30-50 minutes) and you are already guaranteed a more aware dream and because of that high chances of a DILD.

When you lay still for hours it's torture, if you are allowed to move it's conscious sleep!

I did it with a WBTB this night and I got a short lucid dream, although I forgot my intention of waking up. Yes my intention of having a lucid dream is to wake myself up, and I want to wake myself up so I can have a lucid dream. It's a doozy o. O But tonight I will try to do it at bedtime. :)

I get the feeling that KingYoshi stumbled on this exact thing as his guide recommends changing position every ten minutes or so. Billybob and Mzzkc have both also used discomfort. I have a feeling though that the discomfort is not an essential element and is more of an insomnia induction, which does seem to be an important element.

It's kind of funny how finding this post and Mastermind's recent DJ entries has coincided with my experiences last night. In short, I got insomnia. Full blown, tossing and turning, hours of sleeplessness, insomnia. The result was that I experienced more of the falling asleep process than I ever had in any formal WILD 'attempt'. My experiences seemed to coincide with the changing position deepening the experience. At one point I even started trying to induce hypnagogia to get damn well to sleep. I imagined the voices of people I know saying random fragmented speech. After a while it seemed to take over itself as an autonomous process and I decided I might be able to make something of it, this could turn into a WILD. Big mistake! At that point is probably when I doomed any WILD as I began to make it an active thing, but anyway... At this point I started looking to an imagined distance through my eyelids and started getting heavy grade phosphenes and entry level visual hypnagogia that blended with the random stuff I decided to visualise.

The further I come the more I realise that WILD is a process of building awareness and witnessing the falling asleep process consciously. It's difficult because it involves disidentifying with, and observing, your body; and then a level further, disidentifying with and observing your mind. I think it's that last step people don't realise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

I get the feeling that KingYoshi stumbled on this exact thing as his guide recommends changing position every ten minutes or so. Billybob and Mzzkc have both also used discomfort. I have a feeling though that the discomfort is not an essential element and is more of an insomnia induction, which does seem to be an important element.

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Nah, man. Discomfort is just another anchor to keep your consciousness grounded to something as you drift. Same as whitenoise, counting, and all that other tech.

As for the whole "falling asleep is the key to WILD" thing.

Not new. Just not publicized as much as it should be. If you had checked out some of my guides (or BillyBob's later ones), you would have known this much sooner. Fully realizing it, however, is another matter entirely. Nice work.

I've read yours and Billybob's guides many times, and I've thought I internalised the information, in theory. But when I'm in the field the noob mentality seems to take over again. :/