So, I'm new to this.

When I first started Lucid Dreaming, I decided to do it through WILD techniques. Cause hey, I was good at lying still for long periods of time.

Well, it didn't work. No matter what position I stayed in, after about 10 minutes my arms became painful. It was almost impossible not to swallow, there would always be a glob of saliva at the back of my throat. If I actually managed to resist the reflex reactions not to move a single muscle, then breathing became almost impossible - like my lungs won't inflate properly. And no matter what I do, I just do not get hypnagogic hallucinations. Ever.

Not entirely sure what I'm soon wrong, maybe I'm panicking too much? Anyway, a few days ago I tried the WBTB method, with much better results. In fact, the first time I did it I didn't realise any sort of transition between the waking and dreaming state, I didn't actually believe I was dreaming. Until I woke up, almost in exactly the same position.

The second time though, I could tell the difference. I seem to get better if I start the dream with my eyes shut. Since apparently, I'm terrible at the visual aspect of dreams. remember rocking from side to side... And then literally falling into the dream. Like I fell off a chair, or something. Again, I started out in my room... But that only lasted about two seconds, since my phone vibrated right next to my ear, waking me up :( that'll teach me to turn it on silent next time....

Anyway, I was wondering if I should try this again in the afternoon, or will that muck up my sleeping patterns? And why won't WILD work with me?

WILD is a method that is "hard" to perform if you are new to this stuff. That is why it won't work for you.
As to answer the first question, I heard lucid dreaming during afternoon naps is actually easier than at night (But I don't know if it is easier than when doing WBTB). I think it is due to some kinda REM cycle, but I am no expert. I don't know if it will somehow damage your patterns, though.

You don't need to stay still and you are allowed to swallow.

And as you have found out, WBTB, or some hours of sleep are essential before attempting to WILD. Naps are great, if not too much time has past since you woke up. It's up to you to find out, if it will mess with your schedule, as we are all different.

Please check out these two tutorials
http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...cid-dream.html This one is for beginners
WILD This one has a tons of additional info that will help you understand the whole process

Are you keeping a dream journal?
It's a lucid dreamer's best tool.

I'm actually not using one at the moment... Yes, I'm a lazy idiot. Mainly cause I suck at writing thing down in words. My recall in general has improved though, and I do make note of what generally happens in my dreams if they are a recurring instance.

I agree with gab. It is very hard to WILD successfully upon initial sleep, though not impossible. WBTB would be best paired with WILD. As previously mentioned, you are allowed to swallow and move if it is needed, just make sure not to panic over doing and don't think 'oh god i moved, i failed'. If you have to swallow or scratch an itch or change intro a comfortable position, go ahead, then get back to focusing on your dream. Check out the links when you can :3

Ok, so I tried the two methods together

But now I'm having trouble falling asleep at all. Say I wake up at 5:30, I'll still be awake around 8 in the morning when I have to get up. Either that, or I can't remember dreams

Problem is right before I drift off, I get the sensation of falling, or being pulled roughly to one side. Which startles me, and brings me fully awake again. I get problems sleeping even without using the WILD tehnique.

I'll keep going over the links, looks like I have to be a bit more patient and take a break.

Either start waking up sooner during the night, or make shorter WBTB. I had the same problem as you and that's how I solved it. Now, I always WBTB for a max of 4.5 hours after going to bed, including the sleep onset period (which is around 15minutes in the average person). Being more sleepy will also help you relaxing more ;) Good luck!

Thanks for the info, I was definately able to sleep better tonight! Shortened the WBTB time to about 10 minutes, but my sleep onset time is ridiculous :( Went to bed around 10 oclock, got up because I heard my mums car outside and had to let her back in the house... at 10:55. I kinda managed to get into a dream... but as soon as I got the slight hint I was dreaming, I had a couple of false awakenings. Which I didn't RC check after. Scumbag brain.

But yea, when I start to get comfy, it feels like someone's blowing air in my face with a straw tube. And someone's also shaking the bed. And cobwebs are being blown out of my nostrils. Occasionally, someone will fart in my ear. Even if I don't make it to REM stage, the nature of these... uh... things? Are highly amusing.

Once, my neck started vibrating pretty vigorously. Scared the hell out of me, so I didn't follow through... but as it stopped, it felt like my skin was stuck together and had to be peeled apart. I honestly have no idea how I've managed to sleep through this before for so many years, it's ridiculous; let alone never knew it existed.

Well, you learn alot in one week, I guess xD

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Originally Posted by Another

... I had a couple of false awakenings. Which I didn't RC check after. Scumbag brain.

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You can't blame this on your brain. You either don't RC every time you get up from bed, or you not doing it long enough yet.

Your brain is your friend, your colleague, your partner. Your brain is you. It's what gives you all those wonderful dreams, what enables you to be lucid and have adventures, that best writers and video games programmers would be jealous of. It's what listens to your requests and it's eager to comply. All you need to do is to tell it what you want. Show it appreciation. Not only for success, but also for every attempt. In lucid dreaming, journey is as much fun as the destination itself.

umm how long does it take usually when performing a WILD cause i was motionless for like 25 min doing all the right things and i felt different but i couldn't handle it anymore. once i finally sat up i felt really weird but then i just felt normal after a couple seconds

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Originally Posted by ringoyam

umm how long does it take usually when performing a WILD cause i was motionless for like 25 min doing all the right things and i felt different but i couldn't handle it anymore. once i finally sat up i felt really weird but then i just felt normal after a couple seconds

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There is so much more to WILDing than that.

You have to prepare yourself. Then you most likely won't be able to successfully enter LD on first try. You will have to familiarize yourself with the whole process. It will feel so new and strange for you and for your brain. You will likely get excited and that may interrupt the process. But each time you try, you will get further in until you reach your LD.

WILD sageous

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Originally Posted by gab

There is so much more to WILDing than that.

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lol yeah i understand, thanks for the info

Just wanted to mention that if you practice like this regularly, your WILD attempts will likely carry over into your dreams. In my experience the feeling is almost the same as the real thing; minus the instant clarity. Usually you will simply fall out of your body in the dream and become lucid. Hopefully this will help you to become familiar with the experience. So even though your practice may take a while to pay off, you may still get some free lucid dreams in the process. This still happens to me on a regular basis.

Meshetyw, exactly the same thing happened to me on a false awakening. Was so frustrated when I woke up for real xD

Guys I'm just wondering about the technique - is the trick just to wait for the REM stage? Once you hit REM, a dream will come naturally? Or will you have to induce it? I find myself blacking out loads of times, then wondering if I missed my window of opportunity.

And will HH dissappear as soon as you open your eyes?

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Originally Posted by Another

Guys I'm just wondering about the technique - is the trick just to wait for the REM stage? Once you hit REM, a dream will come naturally? Or will you have to induce it? I find myself blacking out loads of times, then wondering if I missed my window of opportunity.

And will HH dissappear as soon as you open your eyes?

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Not sure if you asking about WBTB or WILD.

WBTB - the goal is twofold.
1. It wakes up your mind, so it doesn't fall asleep too fast, but you can stay consious until dream forms, you enter it and fall asleep at the same time.
2. You attempt WILD, when REM is closer, and you don't have to stay consious through long NREM, which is not easy to do.

WILD - Sometimes you get the HH, which could be the beginning of dreams. Later on, they may change into movies/dreams and you can enter those.
But you don't always get HH. In that case, it's good if you can recognize the state, when you are already in a dream, but you think you are awake.

And yes, you can kick-start the HH and dreaming process by visualizing. You can think of some previous cool dream, some fantasy you have, or even events of that day. First you just "think"about that, but later these thought may present in image form and they can even take off on their own. Turning into a dream, which you can enter.

Really, this WILD will explain everything.
And if you get sensations and HH and you disregard the suggestion to not pay attention to them, check out http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ntry-wild.html

THANKS SO MUCH, The second link pretty much answered all my questions!

I tried to form HI before, because I was worried when I wasn't seeing geometric shapes/anything of the sort
Instead, I'd sometimes get images of animals wearing the masks of other animal's skulls, or luminescent flowers... weird I know, but these were complete images, complete faces in the black background.
But what you're saying is that I don't have to visualise anything in my mind's eye. I simply have to think about it. This is great, because using my mind's eye usually springs me wide awake.
Now I just have to train myself to keep calm when a dream forms. The amount of times I've been startled because I've imagined my hand being stuck under cold water...