The moment when we fall asleep. nREM WILD

**user5659** · 08-29-2013 07:18 PM

Was reading about sleep cycles here on DV and i got little bit confused because i remember that half of the time when i go to sleep i enter my dream very fast and i am already lucid there. I had this question in my had, what happened to all sleep cycles that i read about? I searched on the web and read more about sleep cycles, and according to them i have to be sleeping for some time to start having dreams.
However in my case at around 50% rate i go to sleep and do not remember how i felt asleep, but as soon as i am seeing my dream i am already lucid, here i feel like i went through all those cycles, because there was a blank point between my awake and dream which i do not remember.
The other 50% is what i want to talk about, i simply close my eyes and after a minute or two i start getting very blurred video image, what i see in the beginning is always located exactly in the middle of my view. It is like a small circle that is not blurred in the middle and the rest of the picture around this circle is very blurred. It usually a random dream. In the beginning it is even hard to move my view to right/left or up/down, so i am trying to focus on that small image in the middle and i am trying to make it more vivid, in other words i am trying to concentrate on it as much as i can. After 5-10 seconds this imagine will become more clear and the better it gets the more i see around and the more control i get. At this point i already can move my view slowly, so i can look right and left and when i will move my view, my middle circle image will change because i am looking in a different direction. The more i move the more i see, slowly my middle circle with clear and vivid view becomes bigger and bigger, after a minute this circle would cover all my view and i will have a full clear image. At this point i am pretty sure that i am sleeping, but to make sure i change my dream to another location, then again to another location. I do it few times to feel that i have full control and to make my self more confident. From here i can do pretty much everything, i prefer to start and end my dreams with OBE, unless somebody wakes me up. I feel like starting dream with OBE is a good idea, because i will feel very come and i will be able to remember what i wanted to do while i was awake.
One thing to add is, during those few minutes where i try to focus on that small circle and when i try to increase my vision area and vividness i can hear both, what is happening in my awake life and i can still see those video images(dreams). However i do not have any audio from my dream unless i change my location several times, in other words unless i go deeper in my dream.

You might suggest that i am narcoleptic, i read about that and i do not fit any of its symptoms. I have read Sageous post about Delta Sleep, and i think that blank point between awake and dream that i described in my first 50% is Delta Sleep period. At least i feel so, i often remember simply black screen before i start having dreams, just void.

I already found few people who experienced the same while going to sleep, so i have a question, what happens with all those sleep cycles during such moments? And i would like to ask those people who experienced the same to post how they are feeling it, to describe their falling asleep without loosing lucidity.

**Sensei** · 08-31-2013 05:22 AM

Every time I do a WILD (waking to sleeping with no black out) I have checked the time and find that even though I didn't black out and only went about 10 minutes in dream world (or more or less) an hour or two passed on the clock. I believe we somehow skip the time or don't remember, even if there is no blankspot in your memory, it might have still been forgotten after you get in dream. Don't know if this makes sense to others. I think mzzkc explained it one time, though way better, about how he would go from waking to sleeping, do some DEILDs as well and somehow hours had passed.

**user5659** · 08-31-2013 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Every time I do a WILD (waking to sleeping with no black out) I have checked the time and find that even though I didn't black out and only went about 10 minutes in dream world (or more or less) an hour or two passed on the clock. I believe we somehow skip the time or don't remember, even if there is no blankspot in your memory, it might have still been forgotten after you get in dream. Don't know if this makes sense to others. I think mzzkc explained it one time, though way better, about how he would go from waking to sleeping, do some DEILDs as well and somehow hours had passed.

Thx for your reply, the reason why I wrote this is because I decided to take a closer look at this process and I checked time. I did all what I wrote above, I changed my dream 3 times and then my wife started to ask me questions. She did not know that I am already sleeping, I heard what my wife said and at the same time I still saw that dream. I opened my eyes and answered her questions, and it was not an illusion, she really asked me those questions. I asked her how long did I sleep and she said only few minutes, she did not know that I am already sleeping. So i checked my clock and only 5 minutes passed since i went to bed, 2 of which i was not even closing my eyes, in total i had like 3 minutes to experience all this process.
I am doing this since long time, but only last 2 weeks I decided to learn this process more. I repeated this process 3 days in a row, every day once when I go to sleep, every time it was the same process, only dreams were different.

It is so amazing to stay awake and see random video images that are generated by your brain, you actually see how dreams are forming. The last time I did it, I saw a race car in the middle, it was only one race car, when I concentrated on it and tried to see it more clearly I saw more, the road around it, then I saw more cars coming from behind, they were all stopping right next to the first car. As soon as I could move my view, I looked at the right and left and saw a big race track and then I changed my dream to a forest, then I changed it again.

**VagalTone** · 08-31-2013 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by flowofmysoul

Thx for your reply, the reason why I wrote this is because I decided to take a closer look at this process and I checked time. I did all what I wrote above, I changed my dream 3 times and then my wife started to ask me questions. She did not know that I am already sleeping, I heard what my wife said and at the same time I still saw that dream. I opened my eyes and answered her questions, and it was not an illusion, she really asked me those questions. I asked her how long did I sleep and she said only few minutes, she did not know that I am already sleeping. So i checked my clock and only 5 minutes passed since i went to bed, 2 of which i was not even closing my eyes, in total i had like 3 minutes to experience all this process.
I am doing this since long time, but only last 2 weeks I decided to learn this process more. I repeated this process 3 days in a row, every day once when I go to sleep, every time it was the same process, only dreams were different.

It is so amazing to stay awake and see random video images that are generated by your brain, you actually see how dreams are forming. The last time I did it, I saw a race car in the middle, it was only one race car, when I concentrated on it and tried to see it more clearly I saw more, the road around it, then I saw more cars coming from behind, they were all stopping right next to the first car. As soon as I could move my view, I looked at the right and left and saw a big race track and then I changed my dream to a forest, then I changed it again.

Can you share with us how you practice? Do you first fall asleep or do you actively wait for images to come ?

Are you sure you are not sleep deprived when you have those ultrafast WILDs ?

Thank you

**Sensei** · 08-31-2013 01:23 PM

Interesting. In my experience, we can have NREM dreams, but they are less vivid for me when I start the night, and the longer in the night, the easier it is for me to imagine something. For instance: I once slept 7 hours and woke up laid still and focused really hard on a chess board I could see the whole thing in my head. I started playing, but after 20 moves the board started jumbling because I was too far away from sleep. I have tried that multiple times, but the only way for me to keep it going is if I enter a dream. I think that if someone works their imagination enough, they could get NREM dreams vivid enough to make it not matter. The better recall I have the better NREM dreams. The better my imagination the better NREM dreams.

**user5659** · 08-31-2013 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by VagalTone

Can you share with us how you practice? Do you first fall asleep or do you actively wait for images to come ?

Are you sure you are not sleep deprived when you have those ultrafast WILDs ?

Thank you

Not sleep deprived for sure, I sleep at least 7-8 hours a day. However I am pretty tired, I do martial arts and gym/run after work.

I simply close my eyes and wait for images to come, but I do expect them, I can say I am pretty sure I will see them. In the beginning I usually see some geometrical forms, like circles, curves, dots, lanes. Those forms are always smooth, with no angles. Later I start seeing something in the middle, in the beginning it is hard to say what is it, because it is very blurred. What happens later I described in details in the OP. I do not think of anything particular, those images are random and I am still conscious and I always feel confused and i keep thinking where are they coming from. Later when I have better control I can choose a new theme/dream.
Few things I noticed, It works better for me when it is dark and silent in my room. Sometimes when it is noisy I wear vacuum headphones and listen to some audio book. Images are not connected to book content.

When I fall asleep and loose my conscious before I see how my dreams are forming, I usually see and feel something like a drop of water and vibrations around it, I do not see the actual drop in the middle, but I can see those vibrations and they are coming from the middle, the rest I do not remember. I know there is a blank space between my awake and dream in this case, I usually get lucid as soon as I enter my dream.
MP900399620.jpg

I believe lucid dreaming is all about how confident we are in what we do, your power of intent can do miracles. Doubts always make it harder to lucid dream.

**user5659** · 08-31-2013 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Interesting. In my experience, we can have NREM dreams, but they are less vivid for me when I start the night, and the longer in the night, the easier it is for me to imagine something. For instance: I once slept 7 hours and woke up laid still and focused really hard on a chess board I could see the whole thing in my head. I started playing, but after 20 moves the board started jumbling because I was too far away from sleep. I have tried that multiple times, but the only way for me to keep it going is if I enter a dream. I think that if someone works their imagination enough, they could get NREM dreams vivid enough to make it not matter. The better recall I have the better NREM dreams. The better my imagination the better NREM dreams.

Those type of dreams where you enter without loosing lucidity are better for OBE/Astral, for some experiments, for fun. Here you have full control of your world where you can create and delete locations, people and feelings.
But now I prefer lucid dreams where world is created for you, where you obey laws of physics of your or other worlds, where you control your actions only. Never experienced those in what you call NREM dreams.

**VagalTone** · 09-01-2013 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by flowofmysoul

Not sleep deprived for sure, I sleep at least 7-8 hours a day. However I am pretty tired, I do martial arts and gym/run after work.

I simply close my eyes and wait for images to come, but I do expect them, I can say I am pretty sure I will see them. In the beginning I usually see some geometrical forms, like circles, curves, dots, lanes. Those forms are always smooth, with no angles. Later I start seeing something in the middle, in the beginning it is hard to say what is it, because it is very blurred. What happens later I described in details in the OP. I do not think of anything particular, those images are random and I am still conscious and I always feel confused and i keep thinking where are they coming from. Later when I have better control I can choose a new theme/dream.
Few things I noticed, It works better for me when it is dark and silent in my room. Sometimes when it is noisy I wear vacuum headphones and listen to some audio book. Images are not connected to book content.

When I fall asleep and loose my conscious before I see how my dreams are forming, I usually see and feel something like a drop of water and vibrations around it, I do not see the actual drop in the middle, but I can see those vibrations and they are coming from the middle, the rest I do not remember. I know there is a blank space between my awake and dream in this case, I usually get lucid as soon as I enter my dream.
MP900399620.jpg

I believe lucid dreaming is all about how confident we are in what we do, your power of intent can do miracles. Doubts always make it harder to lucid dream.

Thank you for you elaborate and long reply. I would like to have your skill

**Sensei** · 09-01-2013 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by VagalTone

Thank you for you elaborate and long reply. I would like to have your skill

Make a better one.

he said that intent is a very big part of it. Wishing for someone else's skill will only stop you from discovering your own. Use other's experience as a way to learn how to adapt your own technique to lucid till it becomes a second nature technique made 100% for you.

**VagalTone** · 09-01-2013 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Make a better one.

he said that intent is a very big part of it. Wishing for someone else's skill will only stop you from discovering your own. Use other's experience as a way to learn how to adapt your own technique to lucid till it becomes a second nature technique made 100% for you.

For sure, that´s the way to go. Keeping an open mind, always

**user5659** · 09-01-2013 11:22 AM

Like Bruce Lee said “Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.”

**phasemancer** · 11-29-2013 04:45 PM

Interesting. I have been able to do something similar, but only after being sleep deprived. Either by not sleeping much the night before, or by getting up after maybe five hours and then going to sleep again. What happens then though I think is that sleep deprivation causes REM deprivation, so the usual cycles are skipped or go really fast and sleep proceeds almost immediately into REM. This sounds like it could be something else though, so perhaps it might be nREM dreams, or perhaps just being really tired, even without being sleep deprived, can make sleep jump into REM really fast.

**user5659** · 11-29-2013 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by phasemancer

Interesting. I have been able to do something similar, but only after being sleep deprived. Either by not sleeping much the night before, or by getting up after maybe five hours and then going to sleep again. What happens then though I think is that sleep deprivation causes REM deprivation, so the usual cycles are skipped or go really fast and sleep proceeds almost immediately into REM. This sounds like it could be something else though, so perhaps it might be nREM dreams, or perhaps just being really tired, even without being sleep deprived, can make sleep jump into REM really fast.

I think that it is most probably nREM dreams, but easier to do when you are sleepy. I was not sleep deprived when I did it. But sometimes it is cool to observe this happening.

At the moment I do it only when I don't have any plans for my DILD and DEILD's.