My first FILD attempt, Some doubts.

Hello DV, tonight i tried the FILD technique, but unfortunately it failed and
i'm having some doubts that i need to share. I'll try to describe what happened.

"alarm went off, i woke myself up, i was tired, but i could get out of the bed if i wanted to.
I noticed it was time for FILD because in that night i had setup the alarm for that purpose.
I raised my hand a little from my blanket and concentrated on my index and middle finger
i moved them slowly down and up, i did that at least 15 seconds. then i did a reality check.
I was still awake."

I don't know where i failed to be honest. i followed the tutorial and even watched some videos on youtube.
Then a few questions came to my head this morning

Was i supposed to lean my hand on the blanket and relax it the best i could?
Was i supposed to imagine a piano or some buttons to control my fingers better?
While i was doing this, i was with my eyes open, I should try to sleep while moving my fingers?

Please answer if you can help me please, i want to give this technique a second chance
but this time i want to do it without any questions, i want to believe what i'm doing is the right thing
thank you :)

(sorry for my bad english)

Are you sure you were close to a REM sleep stage?
FILD only works if you are doing it while a REM dream is about to form.
If your Alarm woke you up in the middle of a N-REM, you won't find yourself in a FA (so a REM dream) immediately.

So the question you have to ask yourself is "ok my Alarm went off, was I just dreaming?'
If yes, you have chances to return to a Dream through FILD, if not, it will probably take much more time than 15s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaan

Are you sure you were close to a REM sleep stage?
FILD only works if you are doing it while a REM dream is about to form.
If your Alarm woke you up in the middle of a N-REM, you won't find yourself in a FA (so a REM dream) immediately.

So the question you have to ask yourself is "ok my Alarm went off, was I just dreaming?'
If yes, you have chances to return to a Dream through FILD, if not, it will probably take much more time than 15s

---

I don't know when my REM sleep starts, i just know i can remember my dreams
before and after 4 hours of sleep, in the FILD thread also specifies that i can
set my alarm after 4-6 hours of sleep, but after reading the REM sleep thread
i noticed most of N-REM dreams are in a 3rd person perspective. Also before my alarm
went off, i was dreaming on a 1st person perspective, and somehow seemed more vivid
than the dream after i slept again, so i can assume my REM sleep is near 4 hours, I just
don't know how i am supposed to find the exact time of when the REM sleep starts.

yes you should close your eyes and just lie there as if you were falling asleep
the only difference is that you want to concentrate on the very slight movement of your fingers barely moving them at all
this is just so you have something to concentrate on that keeps you aware enough so you actually try an RC after a certain time has passed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iriba

I don't know when my REM sleep starts, i just know i can remember my dreams
before and after 4 hours of sleep, in the FILD thread also specifies that i can
set my alarm after 4-6 hours of sleep, but after reading the REM sleep thread
i noticed most of N-REM dreams are in a 3rd person perspective. Also before my alarm
went off, i was dreaming on a 1st person perspective, and somehow seemed more vivid
than the dream after i slept again, so i can assume my REM sleep is near 4 hours, I just
don't know how i am supposed to find the exact time of when the REM sleep starts.

---

Personally I use a device that scan my Eyes Movements to wake me up when I am in REM (REM-Dreamer), but if your sleep schedule is very regular, you can try different timings with your Alarm to see whose one will hit the beginning of REM sleep, and practice FILD from this point (I have never really tried FILD indeed).

generally each cycle lasts about 90 min, and the REM stage is in the last part of the cycle.
at the last cycles, REM stages takes more place in the cycle so you have more chances to be awoken from REM at your last sleep cycle.

I also read that you don't have to really move your finger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaan

Personally I use a device that scan my Eyes Movements to wake me up when I am in REM (REM-Dreamer), but if your sleep schedule is very regular, you can try different timings with your Alarm to see whose one will hit the beginning of REM sleep, and practice FILD from this point (I have never really tried FILD indeed).

generally each cycle lasts about 90 min, and the REM stage is in the last part of the cycle.
at the last cycles, REM stages takes more place in the cycle so you have more chances to be awoken from REM at your last sleep cycle.

I also read that you don't have to really move your finger.

---

why would you want a device that wakes you up on REM period? that's strange
anyway i forgot to mention that even after 4 hours, i do WBTB, and sometimes i find
myself reality checking on dream, but before the alarm i get 1st person dreams too
So i wonder if my alarm goes off between 2 rem cycles and i wake up on a N-REM cycle
also, i couldn't get up off the bed if i woke up on a N-REM cycle right?
this is confusing, sorry for many questions

Quote:

---

yes you should close your eyes and just lie there as if you were falling asleep
the only difference is that you want to concentrate on the very slight movement of your fingers barely moving them at all
this is just so you have something to concentrate on that keeps you aware enough so you actually try an RC after a certain time has passed

---

Yeah, like i thought, but you need to be about to enter on a REM stage right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iriba

why would you want a device that wakes you up on REM period? that's strange
anyway i forgot to mention that even after 4 hours, i do WBTB, and sometimes i find
myself reality checking on dream, but before the alarm i get 1st person dreams too
So i wonder if my alarm goes off between 2 rem cycles and i wake up on a N-REM cycle
also, i couldn't get up off the bed if i woke up on a N-REM cycle right?
this is confusing, sorry for many questions



Yeah, like i thought, but you need to be about to enter on a REM stage right?

---

You can practice noticing your natural awakenings. We all wake up after our dreams, we just don't keep memory of that. Once you notice your natural awakening, you will be already near REM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iriba

why would you want a device that wakes you up on REM period? that's strange

---

It's obvious to me.
If you are awoken in the middle, or even better in the beginning of a REM stage, and if you don't wait to much before trying again to sleep, REM sleep will be very close.
That is what DEILD is based on.
DEILD or express WILD
FILD can only work if you do it few seconds before a REM sleep begins, but when you fall asleep, you don't directly enter in the REM stage.
First you cross N-REM stages 1,2 at least, and if you have still some N-REM stage 3 to go with, you will probably have to deal with this schedule:
1,2,3,2,REM.
when you are awoken directly from the beginning of REM sleep, you will have less N-REM stages to cross before N-REM sleep starts again.

Natural micro awakenings are generally happening after a REM stage is over.
In this case, you won't have REM sleep before the next cycle.
You can wake up during REM sleep naturally, at least during the Tonic REM sleep, but a Device like REM-Dreamer makes it more simple and more certain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaan

It's obvious to me.
If you are awoken in the middle, or even better in the beginning of a REM stage, and if you don't wait to much before trying again to sleep, REM sleep will be very close.
That is what DEILD is based on.
DEILD or express WILD
FILD can only work if you do it few seconds before a REM sleep begins, but when you fall asleep, you don't directly enter in the REM stage.
First you cross N-REM stages 1,2 at least, and if you have still some N-REM stage 3 to go with, you will probably have to deal with this schedule:
1,2,3,2,REM.
when you are awoken directly from the beginning of REM sleep, you will have less N-REM stages to cross before N-REM sleep starts again.

Natural micro awakenings are generally happening after a REM stage is over.
In this case, you won't have REM sleep before the next cycle.
You can wake up during REM sleep naturally, at least during the Tonic REM sleep, but a Device like REM-Dreamer makes it more simple and more certain.

---

In other words, FILD will only work if i wake up during a REM stage right?

If you manage to stay aware (but asleep) during the N-REM stages preceding the REM sleep, It can also work,I guess, but certainly not in 15 seconds!
FILD is technically a WILD technique, but I think it is more a DEILD technique than classical WILD technique.

Can anyone help me please?
I tried more times with FILD and literally nothing happened
i moved my fingers layed on bed i felt them moving for 15-20
seconds but nothing happened, what should i do?