Too many techniques, which to choose? 61 Points?

I started getting into LD'ing intensively about a month ago. I started reading ETWOLD and watched Jeremiah's step by step video online. Within days I experienced exciting SP which led to a momentary lucid dream. I was having other breakthroughs and then a few weeks ago started reading all the different techniques offered on this site. I think I may be suffering from 'too much information' because now I'll WBTB and lay there cycling through different techniques yet never getting lucid. It's like I'll get bored with one technique when it doesn't work right away and switch to a different one. It's like I'm trying to hard.

In one tutorial, Billybob talked about expectations being the problem with many beginners, I think that's what's happening with me. I'm thinking of just sticking with the 61 points excercise for a while and see what happens. It's mentioned in two different lucid dreaming books I have as well as Jeremiah's video where he says it's a very powerful technique.

Question: Does anyone here use the 61 point relaxation technique? (I tried to use the search function here but it doesn't allow searches of short words like 61) And how long do you usually have to lay there before having a successful WILD? At what point do you usually give up?

Thanks,
ZM

Hmm, I just watched the second half of Jeremiah's video again and I'm going to focus on his techniques. (Body relaxation>third eye visualization>hands visualization w/ counting>enter dream) I think this is what I was doing when I had my first WILD breakthrough. (minus the hands visualization/counting thing)

Here's a link to the video if you're curious. The second half is the best:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...4917631272129#

ZM

Just from my own point of view (haven't WILDed successfully yet) I sometimes find with relaxation techniques I can try so hard to relax that I tense up. What I've been doing recently is inserting pauses into my relaxation/meditation technique. What I basically do is say, "What would I do with my body now if I just gave up and decided to go to sleep?" It kind of helps me realise I've been trying too hard.

I've never heard of the 61 point technique sorry.

The important thing is to chill out about it all and keep it fun. Everyone is different and you'll need time to figure out what works best for you. For me, it's daily reality testing combined with WBTB and WILD/MILD.

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Originally Posted by Zenman

And how long do you usually have to lay there before having a successful WILD? At what point do you usually give up?

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I usually only try to WILD for about 15 minutes lying on my back then I turn onto my side and continue attempting to WILD until I fall asleep. I just keep going for as long as it takes using the counting method. The longer it takes for me to fall asleep the more likely it is I'll get lucid. Usually what happens is I fail to WILD and just go to sleep and begin to dream nonlucidly but then I wind up becoming lucid during that dream.

I can have lucid dreams as often as I want using this technique. It pretty much always works so long as I'm not too lazy and half-hearted about it which I sometimes am. The only problem is due to the disruptive nature of WBTB it is only practical for me to do this once or twice a week.

HTHs :)

Thanks DQ. Yea, I can only do wbtb's a couple times a week too. I really like this site. Your reply, and so many other posts i've read are inspiring.

i really like the 61 point technique. It's called yoga nidra. i guess cuz yoga nidra goes back many years and is time honored in it's own right. use it a lot. easy to remember.

i downloaded one from tim rowe http://www.meetup.com/thechi/message...thread=5044540 but there are many. this one always works for me.

and hey... we're neighbors!
i am in marin!

warmly,
bg~~~~

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

i really like the 61 point technique. It's called yoga nidra. i guess cuz yoga nidra goes back many years and is time honored in it's own right. use it a lot. easy to remember.

i downloaded one from tim rowe http://www.meetup.com/thechi/message...thread=5044540 but there are many. this one always works for me.

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The link to the MP3 in tim rowe's page isn't there anymore. :(

hi clairity,
thanks for the heads up.

i have the tim rowe version you recommend - which has music on it. and i also have the same version without music.

since i downloaded them for free can i just repost them here for people?

ps folks can go on itunes and shop around for yoga nidra too, i have several versions, since i was into yoga nidra before i learned about lucid dreaming...

of course maybe that's how i learned to do lucid dreaming. conscious awareness while deeply relaxed! and even asleep.

another cool site:http://www.aypsite.org/299.html
once you understand yoga nidra you probably will not need the tapes at all.

hope i haven't gone off topic but here is another intersting site about yoga nidra:
http://www.swamij.com/yoga-nidra.htm#parachuting

i think knowing all this makes the 61 points an easy choice for me though i love trying everyone's WILD suggestions, too!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

hi clairity,
thanks for the heads up.

i have the tim rowe version you recommend - which has music on it. and i also have the same version without music.

since i downloaded them for free can i just repost them here for people?

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beachgirl, I would think it would be ok to repost them here but if you're worried about that.. I'd really appreciate it if you'd PM both versions to me!

Thanks also for the sites!

.

WILDing takes practice and patience, so I think it is a good idea to just pick a technique and stick to it for at least several weeks, then if it's not working, try a new one.

When I WILD, I never give up! I always do it when I know for sure that I'll fall asleep no matter what. So I will either WILD, or fail and fall asleep (this sometimes leads to a DILD anyway).

When you're first starting out and don't know what to expect, it can take up to a half or or so to WILD. After a lot of practice, you may be able to WILD within minutes of going back to bed. One thing I should mention is that I don't have a consistent time for WILDing--sometimes I get to the dream right away, sometimes I'm lying there for twenty minutes. It's always different.

When you WILD, maybe it's better to not make the WILD your goal at first, because if you are lying there thinking about how it's been too long or you should give up or switch techniques, it is going to make it much harder. Instead, make it your goal to relax the first few times, and if a WILD happens, then great. This might take the mental pressure off when you are relaxing. After that, make it a goal to feel HH, then SP, and finally, the WILD. :)

Progressive relaxation will knock you out.
Start at the bottom of your body, tense your muscles then relax them.
Move up to the next muscle.

Works like a charm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zenman

I started getting into LD'ing intensively about a month ago. I started reading ETWOLD and watched Jeremiah's step by step video online. Within days I experienced exciting SP which led to a momentary lucid dream. I was having other breakthroughs and then a few weeks ago started reading all the different techniques offered on this site. I think I may be suffering from 'too much information' because now I'll WBTB and lay there cycling through different techniques yet never getting lucid. It's like I'll get bored with one technique when it doesn't work right away and switch to a different one. It's like I'm trying to hard.

In one tutorial, Billybob talked about expectations being the problem with many beginners, I think that's what's happening with me. I'm thinking of just sticking with the 61 points excercise for a while and see what happens. It's mentioned in two different lucid dreaming books I have as well as Jeremiah's video where he says it's a very powerful technique.

Question: Does anyone here use the 61 point relaxation technique? (I tried to use the search function here but it doesn't allow searches of short words like 61) And how long do you usually have to lay there before having a successful WILD? At what point do you usually give up?

Thanks,
ZM

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I personally have found great value in the 61 point tech in many areas of life. I have had multiple micro-OBEs using it. I have adapted it to my own liking in that I may not use 61 points. My stumbling block has been thinking that when I was done that I was still physically focused. Once I noticed that I was many times I was so suprised that returned to my body.

I have recently started practicing it again and I am enjoying the experiences that result from it.

I highly recommend it.

i too use 61 points and would love to hear what you do differently?
and what you discovered that helped your OBEs
thanks
bg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

i too use 61 points and would love to hear what you do differently?
and what you discovered that helped your OBEs
thanks
bg

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I do several things differently.

First, I don't know how many points I use & each time it may differ. How I determine how many points I use depends on my level of tension. I may do the same point more than once i.e. corners or eyes or ears. It depends on how anxious I am at the time. I will say if I have trouble with one spot instead of getting tunnel vision I will simply come back to it.

Secondly, my progression, from top to bottom, through my points may be linear one day and spiraling the next day. As well, I might do both corresponding limbs at the same time. i.e. legs together/arms together.

Third, I don't visualize anything star, points, blue lights etc. I explore each point thru feeling the outer physcial structures, feeling the inner structures, & feeling the space between the two corresponding points. Ex: feeling the distance between inner elbow & outer elbow.

I think the main ingredients here that help me are: constantly moving awareness, different levels of observation (i.e. object consciousness & space consciousness).The more I identify or slip into the spaces the less physically focused I am by very nature of it. Then eventually I feel my body twitching. I keep my awareness moving. Then I notice I might be breathing differently ....then snoring. Then the hardest part is the sleep wave, which hits me really really fast. Sometimes it knocks me out.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any suggestions as well. =0)

i use 61 points.
but i don't count the 61 points. i think they are somewhat arbitrary. i use all sorts of things for my points. including internal organs. it depends on my mood and how long i want to go.
usually i start with the right hand... i have a whole sequence... but i have been known to vary. i think there are many "legitimate" options that all work well, having tried a few of them.
the point is to cover the points in your body so your whole brain is relaxed.

i like your idea of hitting the spaces rather than the points, i'll try that.

sometimes i go twice around with the points before i get knocked out. works like a charm, though! if that doesn't do it, it's time to get up. but... this is powerful stuff.

i think if you trust in the process that's great, this comes from centuries old yoga masters. they knew what they were doing. i am following in their footsteps, that's all!

and they did it to train themself to remain aware during sleep! yoga nidra. see above post of mine for the links.

i also think it's very boring and prevents my mind from wandering. after this i am so bored i have to fall asleep, usually. or at least so focused on something very minute and unemotional that i can easily get lost in my HH... which is what i want and what often happens part way through.

would love to have more mini-OBE.s what did you say you did for those again?


warmly,
beachgirl

What helps me the most is sleeping in an unusual way. Its very hard for me to sleep on my back, but it keeps me aware to sleep on my back. This is the process that I use.

First I find an unusual sleeping position. I lie on my back.

I do deep breathing and reverse blinking about every five seconds. I imagine all tension leaving my body, and I imagine myself sinking into my bed until I am underneath my bed.

After this I let my mind wander. What helps me the most in this stage is not giving a damn about anything that is happening. Even though I see images, I calmly think "I dont give a damn that they are there" Its very important not to get excited about them. Whats most important is not to restrict your mind in any way. Dont think about what you should be doing in order to attain lucidity, just let your mind run wild.

After This goes on for a while the images become more stable. Dont get excited and dont give a damn. You may want to remind yourself that it is a dream, but in an uncaring way. Dont look too closely at your surrounding at this point. If you focus too hard, you may awaken your physical eyes which may ruin some progress. Just know that your surroundings are there, that they are a dream, and continue letting your mind wander.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

i use 61 points.
but i don't count the 61 points. i think they are somewhat arbitrary. i use all sorts of things for my points. including internal organs. it depends on my mood and how long i want to go.
usually i start with the right hand... i have a whole sequence... but i have been known to vary. i think there are many "legitimate" options that all work well, having tried a few of them.
the point is to cover the points in your body so your whole brain is relaxed.

i like your idea of hitting the spaces rather than the points, i'll try that.

sometimes i go twice around with the points before i get knocked out. works like a charm, though! if that doesn't do it, it's time to get up. but... this is powerful stuff.

i think if you trust in the process that's great, this comes from centuries old yoga masters. they knew what they were doing. i am following in their footsteps, that's all!

and they did it to train themself to remain aware during sleep! yoga nidra. see above post of mine for the links.

i also think it's very boring and prevents my mind from wandering. after this i am so bored i have to fall asleep, usually. or at least so focused on something very minute and unemotional that i can easily get lost in my HH... which is what i want and what often happens part way through.

would love to have more mini-OBE.s what did you say you did for those again?


warmly,
beachgirl

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I practice stands as a tree chi kung. Afterwards I might use the 61 point. The stands as a tree chi kung works well for me for two reasons: Post-isometric relaxation which allows my body to turn off really fast & two it gives me more mental momentum. The effect for me is while doing 61 point relaxation or before my body gets hit by the sleep wave. the next thing I know is between points I get the notion to move my hand. It feels funny when I do then I look at it & it looks like a cloud of energy formed into my arm & hand. Then either I snap back in my body or I am out.

I hope this helps. =0)

Hijo, you actually get out of bed early in the morning to do this and WBTB for the 61 points - i am assuming you are doing this in the morning? How long do you do it for?
I do chi gung so this is giving me some ideas. i never thougth to do chi gung in the morning, it might wake me up too much.

Ps can i ask you what "Hijo de la Luna" means? I think de la luna is "of the moon" but ... you tell me if you wish.

Bengron, i will have to find out what reverse blinking is! does it give you mini-obe's or do you use it with 61 points, or both?


thanks,
beachgirl

reverse blinking is where you have your eyes closed and you blink them open briefly about every five seconds. It gives you jut enough time to focus on something in the room for a second. If you continue it for about ten minutes or until you are struggling to open your eyes, you will become deeply relaxed. If you continue to use more relaxation tecniques after this you can easily achieve sleep paralysis.