Can easily get to 70% SP, can't get further

First off, this is my first post here, and I would like to say hi to everyone. I've been trying to Lucid dream every night for at least 2 weeks now, and have had progress, but haven't really had a lucid dream yet.

I didn't know whether I should post this here or in the noob forum, but I figured that this was a specific enough question to post here. I apologize if this question has been already answered; I did a search on Google and didn't really find information that pertains to my question exactly.


In any case, with some help from this, and some practice, I can now easily get myself into a sort of paralysis. I have experienced complete sleep paralysis before I began experimenting with lds, but for some reason when I try I can only get my limbs to be paralyzed, and the rest of my body only quite slightly paralyzed. Really, my limbs aren't completely paralyzed, but it takes a lot more effort that would feel very unnatural to move them, it feels like unless i really try hard, they are stuck in place (if I move them a lot, I lose paralysis entirely). I am able to reach this state in just about 5 minutes, and I can stay in that state as long as I wish, mind completely awake, and body almost completely paralyzed. Sadly, I've been unable to go anywhere past that.

I've only really tried to WILD at night as I go to sleep, and not in the early morning like many seem to suggest. I figured that if I am able to enter a state of near-complete paralysis so easily at my normal bedtime, I should be able to WILD then too. Is it incorrect to think so?

Last night, I stayed in my 70% paralysis state for perhaps even an hour, and nothing seemed to happen. No hallucinations of any sort, no change in mindset (other than an increasing amount of boredom and mild frustration). Everything was simply normal, no matter what I tried. I was completely conscious and awake the entire time, just paralyzed. I eventually got fed up, and got myself out of paralysis and decided just to sleep normally and hope to achieve lucidity with MILD (which was unsuccessful as well).

I was wondering if anyone else here experienced anything similar, and if they have any suggestions for getting past that stage and into a dream. Is my problem related to the time I choose (am I wrong to think that if I can achieve paralysis at that time, I can WILD?)? What can I do to complete my paralysis (if necessary) and transition into a more dreamlike form of consciousness?

I will be very grateful if you have any suggestions or advice to offer.

I'm no pro, but i think rem sleep comes after you start sleeping, so you need to sleep some before you can wild. I think its possible to do it like what your talking about, but i've heard it's hard.

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Originally Posted by jmanjohn

I'm no pro, but i think rem sleep comes after you start sleeping, so you need to sleep some before you can wild. I think its possible to do it like what your talking about, but i've heard it's hard.

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Isn't sleep paralysis part of REM sleep though? I assumed that if I can get into sleep paralysis at that time, I could get into REM...

Again i'm not 100% sure, but i think rem(rapid eye movement) sleep starts after the body has already slept several hours. Hense the wbtb procedure.

I am new here as well, but I have done much more research than you, so allow me to help. Quite simply, you have a MUCH greater chance of having lucid dreams in the morning during your longer REM cycles than at the evening. This is nothing to take lightly...you need to realize that if you want to have lucid dreams, you need to wake up early in the morning, then go back to bed (look on this forum for a bunch of techniques from that point). I have found major success with the timer technique found on lucidity.com. I'm not trying to throw a plug in there for that site or anything, but honestly, the info I got there from the videos and the timer I used was extremely helpful. I am new to lucid dreaming as well, and using the timer after waking up 6 hours into sleeping with 1 hour focused on lucid dreaming before going back to bed, I had lucid dreams the first 3 nights I used the timer...pretty amazing results if you ask me. Why do you think I am replying to you at 5:45 in the morning right now?! I am not a morning person, but I bank on the going-back-to-bed part to get me through it. Also, the lucid dreaming is so awesome that I am motivated to do so.

By the way, I used to think I could get into paralysis quite easily as well, but when I truly experienced it I realized it was something much more powerful than I was experiencing. I'm not saying you don't know what it is, but I am suggesting you do more research on all areas of lucid dreaming. It IS possible to LD at bedtime, but for the sake of argument, you are not going to have your first LD at night.

Another point is that I had to let go, that is, relax before I had LD's. For example, I gave up on trying to WILD right away and forgot about getting into sleep paralysis...guess what, I still got lucid using the timer set on Ramp 4 from lucidity.com. Nick Newport over there seems to be onto something if you ask me. But like I said, if you've done more research you will quickly realize that trying to LD in the evening is not the way to start. There are many variables that go into it, one being the melatonin your body produces and how it affects your REM sleep. I am no expert, but there are many things going with your body and sleep cycle that you are unaware of...so read up and take the advice of the members on this site that are much more experienced than myself.

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Originally Posted by matt1039lp

I am new here as well, but I have done much more research than you, so allow me to help...

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Thanks a lot for your help! Though you are mistaken to assume that I hadn't done much research. I have indeed done extensive research on the topic.

I have experienced true sleep paralysis, before I even knew what it was. It was indeed incredibly powerful, and I remember the feeling well. The reason why I said that I get 70% paralysis is because it seems like I get the same sort of thing, just slightly more mild than the complete paralysis I have experienced, but I am near certain that it is on the right track, as it is powerful. I think that if I hadn't experienced the full thing before, I would have thought that I had achieved full paralysis.

I am well aware that it is recommended to lucid dream in early morning, but I figured that a combination of brain entrainment and sleep paralysis may allow me to WILD at night. This last night, I tried WILDing for about 30 minutes (after a long period of brain entrainment), and I seemed to get closer than normal. Though I wasn't as successful with the paralysis (only had a mild 30% ish feeling this time for some reason), I experienced a small taste of hypnogia. I had to wake up at 6:35 this morning, so I gave up after 30 minutes (besides, laying in even mild paralysis is so uncomfortable!).

I ended up waking up from a dream at 4:30 this morning, and it was near lucid (I found out that I was dreaming in the 10 seconds in between the dream ending and me waking up. I began to question probably in the very last second of the dream, or perhaps a little after). In any case, I tried to WILD after that, trying to recall that dream, and I was just about as successful as I was the evening before.

So I don't know, I'm thinking that a combination of brain entrainment and sleep paralysis can potentially simulate the mindset that I would experience in the morning. Perhaps I will try to set an alarm in early morning this weekend, but I don't intend to try it when I need to wake up at 6:35 am...

For now, I think I will just entrain and WILD attempt for about 30 minutes before sleep every night, and continue doing regular reality checks throughout the day so that if/when my WILD attempts fail I will still have a reasonable chance at DILDing. It seems like I am slowly but surely getting closer to achieving both. I remember having two dreams this last night, but I can only remember what happened in one of them at the moment (I know, I should really write these down...).

Sorry for assuming you haven't spent much time looking at the information on the web. I understand that you are testing a method with brain entertainment...what do you mean by "brain entertainment"?

I have tried to WILD at night simply for the practice, but I assumed I would never actually WILD unless it was in the morning. I would be very interested to hear if you succeed at night. Sometimes in the morning I have such a hard time falling asleep again...it can be a royal pain and makes it tough to attempt on work days, like you mentioned. If you have not tried using a timer (a simple .mp3 file will do), I really recommend you give it a go.

Just the other morning I tried to WILD and was successful for the first time. The LD only lasted perhaps 2 minutes, but I had enough time to exit my body, leave the room, and look at myself in the mirror in the hallway. I analyzed myself and it was so perfect that I could not tell the difference! I was pretty amazed at how my brain was creating this image so well.

Since becoming a member here and learning more about LDing, I've had 5 or 6 LD's (in the last 3-4 weeks). 1 was WILD, 1 was DILD, and the rest were technically DILD's I suppose but were all based on false awakenings. The false awakenings happen so often I had about 5 of them in row one morning, but I hardly count them as LD's unless I realize what is going on.

I'm sure you are on the brink of having a LD. From what it sounds like, consider that you might be trying too hard (I'm not saying that you are, just consider it). I know if people get too excited or focus too hard, then it doesn't allow them to relax enough. Now that I know I can LD, I think I'm even more excited when I try to go back to sleep, which prevents me from casually slipping into a LD.

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Originally Posted by matt1039lp

Sorry for assuming you haven't spent much time looking at the information on the web. I understand that you are testing a method with brain entertainment...what do you mean by "brain entertainment"?

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It's quite alright.

Brainwave entrainment is a process were you use sounds of different frequencies to achieve different states of mind. Read about it here.

If you want an example, here is what I sometimes use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c21d-aJHyzc.

Brainwave entrainment works differently with different people. For some it works right away, for some it never works, and some just need to either meditate during or need practice. It seems to only give mild effects for me. I-Doser's binaural beats don't do too much to me, though I think there is a slight effect. The link above has definitely affected me, though I think I have a mild reaction compared to some. I don't know what sort of brainwave entrainment the link uses, but I think it may use Isochronic tones.

If you are going to try it out, please not that (at least for binaural beats) you need to use headphones, as binaural beats use a different sound for each ear and it's critical that both ears listen to the different sounds and are unable to hear what the other ear is hearing.

Very interesting, could you please provide a link to that timer technique? Thanks in advance.

Zombie, here you go:

http://www.lucidology.com/timer/

Unfortunately, I believe you have to register first. The good news is it is quick and they don't spam you much...if at all. There are several timers for your iphone or psp or simply mp3's. If you're having difficulty LDing and have not tried it...it's definitely worth a try!

Peel, I believe those are called binaural beats? I've listened to a few but have not tried in the morning for actual LD attempts, but, they sound so aweful I don't want to try! Also, the headphones make it difficult to lay on my side, which is how I sleep. If you have success, however, I would be willing to try the brainwave stuff.

Let me know if you guys/gals are having success with the timer or any other method! I really want to know what works and what doesn't (even thought it is likely to be on an individual basis).

I have found that, when doing WBTB, I need to stay up at least 30-45 mins for a good chance at remembering my LDs. I don't think it's absolutely necessary, but unfortunately I think I've got to get into the habit of dedicating at least 30 mins of awake time before going back to bed. However, it is totally worth it when I have a LD!

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Originally Posted by matt1039lp

Peel, I believe those are called binaural beats? I've listened to a few but have not tried in the morning for actual LD attempts, but, they sound so aweful I don't want to try! Also, the headphones make it difficult to lay on my side, which is how I sleep. If you have success, however, I would be willing to try the brainwave stuff.

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There are 3 main types of audio brain entrainment: Binaural beats, Mononaural beats, and isochronic tones. (If I remember those correctly)

I'm not sure what the one I linked was, but I think it was isochronic, because I remember feeling affected by it when I only had one headphone in once. So it was either mononaural, isochronic, or perhaps it was binaural and I had a placebo effect or something :P (though I think it wasn't placebo, didn't seem like placebo).

Awesome, I'll be signing up soon and trying it out.