Thread: WILD According to Sageous Q & A

I had this thought the other day that you could make use of this -Mammalian diving reflex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - to both wake you and relax you for WILD during WBTB. Obviously cold water on your face is going to wake you up, but it also slows your breathing and heart rate. Thoughts?

For my mantra, I use the word "matá". It is a word in my local dialect which means "wake up". I've been using this ever since I started LDing with WBTB+MILD. I think it works so well for me because it is very short, and I personally tend to quickly lose my train of thought when I'm doing my mantra; anything more than 3 words and I forget it on the 3rd repitition. Also, "matá" reminds me to "wake up" without actually opening my eyes so I usually end up waking in the dream world. Lastly, saying mantras in my own dialect makes it more meaningful for me, and most of the time in my non-lucids I recite the mantra out of nowhere and I quickly get lucid because my dreams are usually in English, and the sudden and odd change in language makes it easy for me to "snap" into lucidity. If that makes any sense.

Also, I don't use this mantra every time, though I use it often; sometimes I change it up depending on how I feel that night or what feels meaningful to me at the moment. Would that be alright/helpful? Or would I have to really focus on something that I should use every time?

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

I had this thought the other day that you could make use of this -Mammalian diving reflex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - to both wake you and relax you for WILD during WBTB. Obviously cold water on your face is going to wake you up, but it also slows your breathing and heart rate. Thoughts?

Interesting solution! But enak must be careful not to wake up too much. A splash of water might take him a bit too far from the sleep cycles he's looking only to forestall (preferably without breaking the close-together REM cycles, or losing track of earlier dreams). It might be calming, but a splash of cold water could also trigger the reticular system as effectively as a harsh alarm clock. It might be better (it certainly is for me) to stay a bit groggy during WBTB.

... of course I could be wrong! Let us know how it worked if you tried it, enak!

Originally Posted by paigeyemps

For my mantra, I use the word "matá". It is a word in my local dialect which means "wake up". I've been using this ever since I started LDing with WBTB+MILD. I think it works so well for me because it is very short, and I personally tend to quickly lose my train of thought when I'm doing my mantra; anything more than 3 words and I forget it on the 3rd repitition. Also, "matá" reminds me to "wake up" without actually opening my eyes so I usually end up waking in the dream world. Lastly, saying mantras in my own dialect makes it more meaningful for me, and most of the time in my non-lucids I recite the mantra out of nowhere and I quickly get lucid because my dreams are usually in English, and the sudden and odd change in language makes it easy for me to "snap" into lucidity. If that makes any sense.

Also, I don't use this mantra every time, though I use it often; sometimes I change it up depending on how I feel that night or what feels meaningful to me at the moment. Would that be alright/helpful? Or would I have to really focus on something that I should use every time?

Your "mata" sounds very much like my "Here & Now" mantra, which has been my standard, or rather fall-back, for decades, and for many of the same reasons. I too do not use "Here & Now" every time, and to me that is a good idea, because it allows me to use specific mantras based on current work. But I have found myself going back to "Here & Now" mid-WILD, so it doesn't hurt to have it on a back burner.

So in other words, it seems to me that you've made good choices, both in "mata," and in using different mantras to suit your wishes. No need to shift your setup at all, I think!

WILD Session 6: Doing the Dive is posted.

Enjoy!

Awesome I never realised until now but after all this practice it looks like I have all the basic skills necessary, now it's just a matter of going through with the actual thing. Going to make my first attempt tomorrow!

Phew, so this is it, huh? The actual WILDing begins. I've been really lazy lately with lucidity related things, so I'm kind of out of synch. Haven't been very active around here, either. But nonetheless, I'm going to set aside a night this week and do a WILD. Summer break starts soon, which can either be a plus or it could be negative; I could be very focused on WILD or I could slack off. Hopefully it will be more of the firmer than the latter.

I suppose that after your first successful WILD, the motivation part can be ignored because of the newly renewed confidence

Sageous,
this is a very helpful tutorial you have here. I know you said that the lying still and waiting part is not that important but it seems to be my main problem. Ive been attempting WILD for about a month now with absolutely no success. Ive tried several methods: variations of alarms, various waking times, breathing methods, meditation methods, mantras, several binaural beat/brain entertainment methods, the list goes on... I haven't had any success. I can't even get to the point where i see HI. I can't even seem to find a method that suits me best. Any advice?
Dreamsauce

^ You see? That's just it. You're too worried about getting into HI.

Originally Posted by ThAtaInTmE

I suppose that after your first successful WILD, the motivation part can be ignored because of the newly renewed confidence

Not ignored; refined!

Originally Posted by dreamsauce

Sageous,
this is a very helpful tutorial you have here. I know you said that the lying still and waiting part is not that important but it seems to be my main problem. Ive been attempting WILD for about a month now with absolutely no success. Ive tried several methods: variations of alarms, various waking times, breathing methods, meditation methods, mantras, several binaural beat/brain entertainment methods, the list goes on... I haven't had any success. I can't even get to the point where i see HI. I can't even seem to find a method that suits me best. Any advice?
Dreamsauce

Taffy may have already covered this, but I'll throw in my two cents:

Remember that when you WILD (or LD using any technique, or none), things like HI are simply mileposts, with your only real target being the dream. If the "noise" becomes important, you stand an excellent chance of being distracted. If I misunderstood, and you you were just listing HI as the milepost it is, then how about this:

Remember that WILD is just a technique -- you might consider checking out DILD or MILD, in case those might work better for you. What really matters are the fundamentals -- self-awareness and memory, so technique is a matter of choice or convenience, and not a requirement.

Aside from that, and closer to your request, I recommend patience, and continued exploration. Regarding the "front end," you might want reconsider the basics, like the "61 Points" relaxation method LaBerge outlines in EWOLD, or perhaps forgetting all the tutorials and simply lie still on your back or left side and think dreamy thoughts. Sometimes doing less is more.

If that wasn't enough, let me know and I'll try again...

Originally Posted by Sageous

or perhaps forgetting all the tutorials and simply lie still on your back or left side and think dreamy thoughts. Sometimes doing less is more.

I'm curious as to why you specified the left side? I thought it was just coincidence or that I just particularly liked laying on my left side, but I've been noticing a lot lately that most of my lucidity and best dream recall has occurred while laying on my left side. I've even been discovering I can fall asleep a lot faster on my left side... is there something scientific to actually explain this?

Originally Posted by Taffy

^ You see? That's just it. You're too worried about getting into HI.

Im not saying that having HI is my main goal, i just thought it was a natural process. Im seeing no HI which may be implying that i am doing something wrong? I dont know. Do some people experience little to no HI?

Originally Posted by RareCola

I'm curious as to why you specified the left side? I thought it was just coincidence or that I just particularly liked laying on my left side, but I've been noticing a lot lately that most of my lucidity and best dream recall has occurred while laying on my left side. I've even been discovering I can fall asleep a lot faster on my left side... is there something scientific to actually explain this?

I wondered if anyone might notice that...

Nothing scientific that I know of has been found, though LaBerge was doing a study on sleep posture a few years back.

I guess I let some dream yoga slip into my post: The dream yogis have determined that men dream best on their right sides, while women dream best on their left sides...something about positive wisdom prana (prana = vital "wind" energy) releasing more properly through appropriate nostrils, I think. Also, simply being careful about your sleep posture helps maintain your awareness during sleep. If you're curious, I believe there is information about it in The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep, or maybe Sivason could explain it more clearly (and/or correctly), as he is better versed in the specifics of dream yoga than I am.

So, according to the dream yogis, you would do better to sleep on your right side...maybe you should try it? I've always found that true for me, though I really never took much stock in the whole prana thing; I'm just more comfortable. Oh, and my wife noticed, after I mentioned this very post to her, that she tends to have her best dreams on her left side. Could be something to it, I suppose!

Originally Posted by dreamsauce

Im not saying that having HI is my main goal, i just thought it was a natural process. Im seeing no HI which may be implying that i am doing something wrong? I dont know. Do some people experience little to no HI?

Yes, it is possible to get to sleep without experiencing, or perhaps noticing, HI. It happens to me all the time. So the only thing you might be doing wrong might be looking for an event that is simply not terribly eventful for you.

What could also be happening is that you are simply falling asleep before you get a chance to see HI, so, when you finally find the "“lie down, hold still, and wait” method that works for you, you might also find yourself staying "awake" long enough to notice HI, SP, and the rest of the "noise." When you do, don't forget to pay them little heed!

And of course if you should choose to switch techniques and go with DILD or MILD, things like HI won't matter anymore...

Originally Posted by Sageous

Yes, it is possible to get to sleep without experiencing, or perhaps noticing, HI. It happens to me all the time. So the only thing you might be doing wrong might be looking for an event that is simply not terribly eventful for you.

What could also be happening is that you are simply falling asleep before you get a chance to see HI, so, when you finally find the "“lie down, hold still, and wait” method that works for you, you might also find yourself staying "awake" long enough to notice HI, SP, and the rest of the "noise." When you do, don't forget to pay them little heed!

And of course if you should choose to switch techniques and go with DILD or MILD, things like HI won't matter anymore...

Thank you. I shall find the method that finally works.... eventually

Originally Posted by Sageous

I wondered if anyone might notice that...

Nothing scientific that I know of has been found, though LaBerge was doing a study on sleep posture a few years back.

I guess I let some dream yoga slip into my post: The dream yogis have determined that men dream best on their right sides, while women dream best on their left sides...something about positive wisdom prana (prana = vital "wind" energy) releasing more properly through appropriate nostrils, I think. Also, simply being careful about your sleep posture helps maintain your awareness during sleep. If you're curious, I believe there is information about it in The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep, or maybe Sivason could explain it more clearly (and/or correctly), as he is better versed in the specifics of dream yoga than I am.

So, according to the dream yogis, you would do better to sleep on your right side...maybe you should try it? I've always found that true for me, though I really never took much stock in the whole prana thing; I'm just more comfortable. Oh, and my wife noticed, after I mentioned this very post to her, that she tends to have her best dreams on her left side. Could be something to it, I suppose!

Heh, that's strange then. I can sleep alright on my right side, but I tend to find I sleep a lot more comfortably on my left. Though with further thought I guess it could be because when I'm laying on my right side I'm actually facing the window and with my awkward sleep schedule the small amount of light is enough to be a distraction, whereas I'm facing a dark wall on my left side.

Originally Posted by RareCola

Heh, that's strange then. I can sleep alright on my right side, but I tend to find I sleep a lot more comfortably on my left. Though with further thought I guess it could be because when I'm laying on my right side I'm actually facing the window and with my awkward sleep schedule the small amount of light is enough to be a distraction, whereas I'm facing a dark wall on my left side.

Well, you could try an experiment and move your pillow to the other end of the bed...

Originally Posted by Sageous

Well, you could try an experiment and move your pillow to the other end of the bed...

Haha I could try that, not sure if it would be a fair test because it would feel so foreign anyway though.

Do it for a week then

Sageous, I have a question regarding the "hold still and wait" part. I may be the only one here who hasn't read all the WILD tutorials on this site. (The focus on SP always drove me crazy, so I have just avoided them.)

I have a relaxation technique I developed for myself over the years and wondering if it could be helpful in WILDing. I visualize myself lying on a beach. I am at the edge of the shore and the waves begin to gently wash over me. The waves, which are in synch with my breath, start at my toes and slowly go up my body. As the tide recedes, all stress and tension leave and I am completely relaxed. Usually, I also add in a mantra to the timing of the waves. I have been doing this for years, so I can also produce the relaxation effect now, without the visualization part.

If I used the "blank" version and added in my new mantra, would this work for "hold still and wait"?

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

Sageous, I have a question regarding the "hold still and wait" part. I may be the only one here who hasn't read all the WILD tutorials on this site. (The focus on SP always drove me crazy, so I have just avoided them.)

I have a relaxation technique I developed for myself over the years and wondering if it could be helpful in WILDing. I visualize myself lying on a beach. I am at the edge of the shore and the waves begin to gently wash over me. The waves, which are in synch with my breath, start at my toes and slowly go up my body. As the tide recedes, all stress and tension leave and I am completely relaxed. Usually, I also add in a mantra to the timing of the waves. I have been doing this for years, so I can also produce the relaxation effect now, without the visualization part.

If I used the "blank" version and added in my new mantra, would this work for "hold still and wait"?

I'm going to chip in and say I think this is really cool. The beach setting taps into strong associations of relaxation through the 'holiday' schema, the strong visualisation element forms a dream ready made to enter and the tide visualisation can be timed with breath and mantra. I may try this as I've been trying to find a form of V-WILD that does not require active maintenance of the scene.

Reminds me of this Surfer Technique for Lucid Dreaming | dream studies portal, I think yours is better, the surfing visualisation is more difficult to maintain and not as conducive to relaxation and returning to sleep.

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

I have a relaxation technique I developed for myself over the years and wondering if it could be helpful in WILDing. I visualize myself lying on a beach. I am at the edge of the shore and the waves begin to gently wash over me. The waves, which are in synch with my breath, start at my toes and slowly go up my body. As the tide recedes, all stress and tension leave and I am completely relaxed. Usually, I also add in a mantra to the timing of the waves. I have been doing this for years, so I can also produce the relaxation effect now, without the visualization part.?

Wow this is weird...I guess i am not the only person who uses the beach and waves to relax. Ever since I started to try and lucid dream, I have been using the waves to relax and pace my breathing. I like it