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    Thread: WILD According to Sageous Q & A

    1. #1
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      WILD According to Sageous Q & A

      Please use this thread to post any questions you have about the WILD According to Sageous Sessions, WILD, self-awareness, or any other related topic. I'll answer what I can, and maybe lively discussions will also ensue -- from which we all always learn!

      Best of Dreams,

      Sageous
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      Was just wondering whether we are to create workbooks to track our progress. Haven't seen you mention them anywhere yet?

      I completely agree with you on the ADA. For the most part, I believe I have always practiced hyper-awareness in my life. It does definitely eventually become more like routine, as with the mouse and fish example. I'd never heard of this ADSA until now though, can't wait to start trying it out. Definitely seems like a better method than ADA.

      EDIT: Also, will you ever be doing live Q&A in the #DVA chatroom on IRC, similar to how Ophelia and fOrceez do for the intro class?
      Last edited by RareCola; 05-15-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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      The best reason for having dreams is that in dreams no reasons are necessary.

      No sailor controls the sea. Only a foolish sailor would say such a thing. Similarly, no lucid dreamer controls the dream.
      Like a sailor on the sea, we lucid dreamers direct our perceptual awareness within the larger state of dreaming.

    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by RareCola View Post
      Was just wondering whether we are to create workbooks to track our progress. Haven't seen you mention them anywhere yet?
      I did mention earlier that I didn't see much need for notebooks. Here's what I said:

      That's up to you, but from my perspective that shouldn't be necessary. The beautiful/annoying thing about WILD is that it's one of those "You're either there or you're not" things, so incremental progress is both difficult to judge and recognize -- for me and for you. I think we are almost better off not looking for and possibly mis-identifying mileposts.

      What I will do as we move along is create a dedicated thread wherin you can describe the WILD attempts that you make, and we'll be able to determine from that whether or not you're "there"... I guess that's sort of like a workbook, isn't it?
      ... I think this route will work for us here...


      I completely agree with you on the ADA. For the most part, I believe I have always practiced hyper-awareness in my life. It does definitely eventually become more like routine, as with the mouse and fish example. I'd never heard of this ADSA until now though, can't wait to start trying it out. Definitely seems like a better method than ADA.
      Be sure to let us know how it works for you!

      Also, will you ever be doing live Q&A in the #DVA chatroom on IRC, similar to how Ophelia and fOrceez do for the intro class?
      I didn't know I could...I'm one of those old guys you hear about who don't know much about the stuff you guys do every day (my phone, for instance, still plugs into the wall, and has only 12 buttons), so I'm sort of learning as I'm going. I'll have to look into that; it may come in very handy later on. Thanks!

    4. #4
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      The lesson was very informative. I never knew self awareness had an effect on lucid dreaming, especially not WILD. I tend to just breeze through days without being very aware, so I'll have to practice this.
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      Interesting read in the new thread

      Personally i started using ADA like 3 days ago, interesting that you just talked about it Personally when doing ADA, i focus on myself more than my surroundings, so it seems i do it similar to what you explained... Hopefully it can help with both DILD and WILD ^^
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      Quote Originally Posted by littlezoe View Post
      Interesting read in the new thread

      Personally i started using ADA like 3 days ago, interesting that you just talked about it Personally when doing ADA, i focus on myself more than my surroundings, so it seems i do it similar to what you explained... Hopefully it can help with both DILD and WILD ^^
      ... So you're already ahead of the game; very nice! And yes, if what you are doing is similar to the reverse RC I described above, it will likely help with both DILD and WILD.

      A quick note, though: be sure you don't focus on yourself as much as your "self" as it effects and is effected by reality...interaction is key here.
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      Like littlezoe said, I've been practicing ADA along with Dream Yoga from Sivason's course as well, and I've noticed some subtle augmentation in awareness in my dreams and in waking life.

      It's starting to get more fun now instead of a chore, because it helps a lot with using the free time I have to just question my reality, and even though I've done it before, I've always done it in a half-hearted manner. Really glad to take this course and dream yoga simultaneously, hope I'll become a way better person than I was before when I could only remember mostly non-lucids.

      And with the CANWILD technique, which skips the relaxation phase (since you use an alarm to wake you up while your body is still), it'll be good to practice the relaxation phase with WBTBs if my CANDWILD attempts fail.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Linkzelda View Post
      Like littlezoe said, I've been practicing ADA along with Dream Yoga from Sivason's course as well, and I've noticed some subtle augmentation in awareness in my dreams and in waking life.

      It's starting to get more fun now instead of a chore, because it helps a lot with using the free time I have to just question my reality, and even though I've done it before, I've always done it in a half-hearted manner. Really glad to take this course and dream yoga simultaneously, hope I'll become a way better person than I was before when I could only remember mostly non-lucids.

      And with the CANWILD technique, which skips the relaxation phase (since you use an alarm to wake you up while your body is still), it'll be good to practice the relaxation phase with WBTBs if my CANDWILD attempts fail.
      Yeah, I just looked and saw that there are a few people taking both Sivason and my course. That is definitely a good thing, because I think our courses are complementary.

      That's excellent that it's getting more fun now, both because that helps your focus, and in the end isn't fun really what it's all about?
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      I didn't know I could...I'm one of those old guys you hear about who don't know much about the stuff you guys do every day (my phone, for instance, still plugs into the wall, and has only 12 buttons), so I'm sort of learning as I'm going. I'll have to look into that; it may come in very handy later on. Thanks!
      I told Opheliablue and she said that she'll help you out if you wanted to do it. She'd like to sit on the IRC Q&A sessions too
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      The best reason for having dreams is that in dreams no reasons are necessary.

      No sailor controls the sea. Only a foolish sailor would say such a thing. Similarly, no lucid dreamer controls the dream.
      Like a sailor on the sea, we lucid dreamers direct our perceptual awareness within the larger state of dreaming.

    10. #10
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      So about your reverse reality check. Is it meant to be a quick thing? I was trying to think about my impact on the universe and where I was before etc. Seemed like after a short bit I had nothing else to do. Is that normal?
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    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by enak101 View Post
      So about your reverse reality check. Is it meant to be a quick thing? I was trying to think about my impact on the universe and where I was before etc. Seemed like after a short bit I had nothing else to do. Is that normal?
      I'd say so. I've been doing this for years, and my "pauses" never last much more than 20 seconds. Short time-spans for this (and regular RC's) is probably a good thing, because if you spend too much time considering this stuff you may begin to intellectualize and attach meaning and explanations that sound good but simply never existed, which for this exercise -- and life in general -- would be a bad thing. Oh, and standing still talking to yourself for too long is often not seen as very encouraging behavior by the folks around you...

      The questions you ask in these Reverse RC's don't require answers; they need only be asked, and quietly considered for a few seconds. It's the wonder about your presence in reality that's important here, and that need only last a few seconds. So short time on this is fine, as long as you're getting something out of it and not simply repeating rote phrases. And don't be surprised that, with practice, you'll find that "wonder" lingering long after that few seconds of pause occurred.

      I hope that made sense; let me know if it did not.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      if you spend too much time considering this stuff you may begin to intellectualize and attach meaning and explanations that sound good but simply never existed, which for this exercise -- and life in general -- would be a bad thing. Oh, and standing still talking to yourself for too long is often not seen as very encouraging behavior by the folks around you...
      I think this is the hardest part for me. I am quite prone to over intellectualizing things of this nature. I think you have mentioned this techniques in other threads and I have been trying to accomplish this for some time, but always end up philosophizing about my effect on the environment rather than wondering about it. The part you mentioned in the lesson about the atoms in your feet interacting with the atoms in the floor really helped me understand how this "reverse RC" works. Yesterday, instead of asking myself questions and thinking about my effect on the environment, I visualized bits of atoms coming and going from my body to the air around me. Suddenly, I had an "Aha!" that is hard to describe. I think I actually felt the wonder and sense of everything everything whirling about me that you describe for the first time. In way it felt very much like lucidity hitting me in a DILD. Now as I do the reverse RC, I try to visualize and feel my effect on the environment, rather than thinking about it and encouraging my inner monologue.

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      Quote Originally Posted by hermine_hesse View Post
      I think this is the hardest part for me. I am quite prone to over intellectualizing things of this nature. I think you have mentioned this techniques in other threads and I have been trying to accomplish this for some time, but always end up philosophizing about my effect on the environment rather than wondering about it. The part you mentioned in the lesson about the atoms in your feet interacting with the atoms in the floor really helped me understand how this "reverse RC" works. Yesterday, instead of asking myself questions and thinking about my effect on the environment, I visualized bits of atoms coming and going from my body to the air around me. Suddenly, I had an "Aha!" that is hard to describe. I think I actually felt the wonder and sense of everything everything whirling about me that you describe for the first time. In way it felt very much like lucidity hitting me in a DILD. Now as I do the reverse RC, I try to visualize and feel my effect on the environment, rather than thinking about it and encouraging my inner monologue.
      I had a similar "Aha!" moment when attempting this reverse reality check today. Kind of just stopping and thinking how present you are in the world and how everything you do is having significance to the environment. It's a pretty weird sensation to consider.
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      The best reason for having dreams is that in dreams no reasons are necessary.

      No sailor controls the sea. Only a foolish sailor would say such a thing. Similarly, no lucid dreamer controls the dream.
      Like a sailor on the sea, we lucid dreamers direct our perceptual awareness within the larger state of dreaming.

    14. #14
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      Hermine_Hesse and RareCola:

      That "Aha" sensation is at the core of this exercise. It ought to feel a bit weird, even transcendental. And if you can summon that sensation during a dream, you'll not only be lucid but suddenly the "weird" bit will all make sense, because you're having it in the context of the dream -- aka your own personal reality, where everything is you and you are everything. So it would be most helpful to have this attitude of wonder without explanation as a part of you in a dream, if only to "naturally" prevent you from intellectualizing yourself out of lucidity... It doesn't hurt in waking life, either.

      In terms of WILD, this level of self-awareness should carry you through the distracting phases of sleep with ease, and enable you to create a dream once you're "in." We'll be talking about all that later.

      Nice work guys, keep it up!
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      When I did the reverse RCs today I put a MILD spin on it, I visualised myself in the place I was just in, and in the place I would next be, realising I was dreaming, stabilising, and carrying out a dream goal. Does that seem like a good idea? It's certainly been a far more memorable variant of RC than any other I've tried, I had no problem remembering to do it at least every hour and often 2-3 times in an hour.
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      Alright thanks, that helps!
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    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ctharlhie View Post
      When I did the reverse RCs today I put a MILD spin on it, I visualised myself in the place I was just in, and in the place I would next be, realising I was dreaming, stabilising, and carrying out a dream goal. Does that seem like a good idea? It's certainly been a far more memorable variant of RC than any other I've tried, I had no problem remembering to do it at least every hour and often 2-3 times in an hour.
      In the context of what I'm teaching here, I'd say no, your MILD variant does not seem like a good idea. I'm more interested here in getting you to understand, thoroughly, your indelible interaction with reality as it is-- to understand that "duality" is an intellectual term that has no real meaning, if you will. Especially in dreams. Attaching MILD visualizations is an arguably intellectual departure from the original goal of the reverse RC. Visualizing a place where you can not be in five minutes, like a dream, is truly a departure.

      But is it a bad departure? Of that I can't be sure. If you are able to perform successful visualizations on the same schedule as a reverse RC regimen, then you're likely doing a thing that will come in very handy during your dreams. It shows some advanced skills that you should value, and definitely not ignore. But then again you might be trading in some self-awareness growth in the name of programming your mind for specific dreams, which could lead to false Lucids or very short LD's because yes, your dreaming mind was prepared but your waking mind (the one that matters here, especially when attempting WILDs) was not... Which BTW is a problem I've always had with MILD.

      So I don't know, I guess. You're clearly doing a very clever thing, but I have to suggest that you try to stick with the simple "wondering" reverse RC exercise. Maybe you could do both, and tell us how it worked when we actually attempt the WILDs in a couple of weeks?

      Glad to know the RC variant is working regardless, though!
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      I'm still kind of confused about the Reverse RC. So I have to sort of think about why I'm here, and how I'm impacting the world at this very moment?
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    19. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sydney View Post
      I'm still kind of confused about the Reverse RC. So I have to sort of think about why I'm here, and how I'm impacting the world at this very moment?
      Yup, and also about how the world is impacting you. Don't forget that you also want to remember wher you just were, and where you will be shortly. And don't think too hard, or try to come up with explanations; it's more about the act of wondering than it is about getting answers.

      Thanks for joining the class, Sydney, and good luck! Oh, and be sure to ask again if something I said wasn't clear...
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sydney View Post
      I'm still kind of confused about the Reverse RC. So I have to sort of think about why I'm here, and how I'm impacting the world at this very moment?
      From what I've been doing today, I've found it's best not to really "question" anything, as you would with other methods. Questioning implies an answer, which from what Sageous has said, isn't the goal. I've just been letting my mind wander thinking about my existence in this moment and previous/future moments, then stopping myself before I start breaking down into questions and answers.
      Check out my DreamViews Podcast with OpheliaBlue!

      The best reason for having dreams is that in dreams no reasons are necessary.

      No sailor controls the sea. Only a foolish sailor would say such a thing. Similarly, no lucid dreamer controls the dream.
      Like a sailor on the sea, we lucid dreamers direct our perceptual awareness within the larger state of dreaming.

    21. #21
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      ^^ I couldn't have said it better myself, RareCola!
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      I like your sig picture Rarecola.

      Nice explanation too.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      In the context of what I'm teaching here, I'd say no, your MILD variant does not seem like a good idea. I'm more interested here in getting you to understand, thoroughly, your indelible interaction with reality as it is-- to understand that "duality" is an intellectual term that has no real meaning, if you will. Especially in dreams. Attaching MILD visualizations is an arguably intellectual departure from the original goal of the reverse RC. Visualizing a place where you can not be in five minutes, like a dream, is truly a departure.

      But is it a bad departure? Of that I can't be sure. If you are able to perform successful visualizations on the same schedule as a reverse RC regimen, then you're likely doing a thing that will come in very handy during your dreams. It shows some advanced skills that you should value, and definitely not ignore. But then again you might be trading in some self-awareness growth in the name of programming your mind for specific dreams, which could lead to false Lucids or very short LD's because yes, your dreaming mind was prepared but your waking mind (the one that matters here, especially when attempting WILDs) was not... Which BTW is a problem I've always had with MILD.

      So I don't know, I guess. You're clearly doing a very clever thing, but I have to suggest that you try to stick with the simple "wondering" reverse RC exercise. Maybe you could do both, and tell us how it worked when we actually attempt the WILDs in a couple of weeks?

      Glad to know the RC variant is working regardless, though!
      Yeah I think your point about the difference in awareness is quite important, interesting what you said about it possibly inducing false lucid dreams.
      Well I'll continue with reverse RCs as you described and keep up MILD on the side
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      Intent in Lucid Dreaming; Break that Dry-Spell, Escape the Technique Rut

      Always, no sometimes think it's me,
      But you know I know when it's a dream
      I think I know I mean a yes
      But it's all wrong
      That is I think I disagree

      -John Lennon


    24. #24
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      Pardon my ignorance, but do we post our experiences here?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Linkzelda View Post
      Pardon my ignorance, but do we post our experiences here?
      Sure, for now. I'll be setting up a thread for posting, and discussing, experiences in a while, but I was holding off on doing so until after I reached the point where I specifically ask you guys to attempt a WILD (still a few weeks off). I'd really like the discussion to be focused -- or at least distantly based -- on my suggestions.

      In the meantime sure, post your experiences here; seems like a good spot! Also, as already discussed, notebooks aren't necessary for this class.

      Sorry if this is confusing -- I'm apparently doing things a bit differently than normally here. I hope that's okay.
      Last edited by Sageous; 05-17-2012 at 10:44 PM.

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