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    Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

    1. #876
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      ^^ Yes, Eamo, it does seem you were close, if not pretty much "there." i guess the only advice I could offer is this: stay in bed!

      Forty minutes is not a long time, and if you're in a place filled with HI, dreamlets, and the sensations of lucidity, try to stay in it for a while. There will come a moment when your body insists on waking up, but don't rush to that moment; hang out in the realm of near-lucidity as long as you can, because a dream might still be in the works, and only time will tell!

      So next time, when you feel like just getting up, put off the decision to do so for a few minutes more. Patience can be difficult, but it also can be well-rewarded!
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    2. #877
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      I've decided to return to regular WILD attempts. I'll never get there if I don't keep trying! And if I do keep trying, I know I will eventually get there, just like with DILDs.

      Ideal timing last night, woke naturally at 5 hrs after a long non-lucid dreaming session with decent recall of selected moments. Still felt sleepy. Sat up to clear my head for about 5-10 minutes, then got down to WILDing! Felt very positive, this was going to be it, the first WILD success!

      I went through a number of different mantras, including counting down: "Remember (to be lucid in the dream)" "Let go", "fly!...". Felt after a while like I was "holding on" too hard so worked on letting go mentally, and every time I did I felt closer to sleep. Saw lots of HI, got to the body buzz and ragged breathing, tried to keep relaxing but came back up to alertness. Held on and relaxed again in same positions, made it back down a 2nd time after a while, this time it felt like the foot of the bed was raised about 45 degrees and like I could slip off through the head. Again didn't make it in. I held on as long as I could I felt before my hips were too sore and would be bothering me too much to ignore so I changed to the other side. Oh, also, once or twice I caught myself just starting to snore.

      Spent about 1 1/4 hours on attempt then gave up and just slept, no further recall. I'm finding my comfort level is a decent measure of time: I can last about 30-45 minutes before I need to turn over or body aches start to build up to the point where ignoring them takes a lot of mental energy. I'm trying to hold on as long as I can before moving, until soreness of position overwhelms me and further relaxation is not possible.

      I did have a few glasses of wine with dinner about 3 hours before bed, not ideal probably. Sleep was a bit fitful, I woke several times before the 5hrs waking, surprised that it was still only an hour or two after bedtime.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    3. #878
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      ^^ Nice "return" attempt, FryingMan; way to be positive!

      Here are a few thoughts:

      First, a single mantra for the session is probably a good idea. Doing so can keep you focused on your goals, and also helps keep your head in a single thematic rhythm, which is pretty important... also, changing mantras allows your mind to wander -- even if they're a group of mantras from which you always pick, the act of thinking about changing up can be enough to nudge you off the path.

      Next, don't worry too much about holding still. Yes, things can go better if you hold still, especially if your body falls asleep quickly, but struggling to hold still at the expense of comfort (or in fear of movement screwing things up) can be more a distraction than than simply and calmly adjusting your position... WILD heresy, I know, but sometimes rules need to be broken!

      Next, I know you've heard it before, but I couldn't help but notice that the longest paragraph of your post discussed, in detail, the "noise." I understand why reporting it seems important, and I know you know full well to try to ignore the noise, but when it holds prominence in a report, I gotta point it out!

      Finally, yeah, the wine probably didn't help, and might have assisted in your fitful night, but it likely wouldn't have had too much of an impact on your dive attempt, given how long after the wine you made it.

      So all in all an excellent "return" to WILD, FryingMan; I hope you'll be just as positive on your next dive... and more fruitful!
      Last edited by Sageous; 05-12-2014 at 05:03 AM.

    4. #879
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      Thanks for the response. I hear ya! Yeah the point of the noise report was basically to show how "far"/"close" I got.

      Hey if that means I'm "allowed" to switch sides then I'm a happy camper.
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      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    5. #880
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      Uuui - you found your smiley!! Gotta not point it out, then!
      If only I would give it a serious try - I've been completely lazy lately - the most WBTB I ever did was 20 min. and my longest two WILD attempts were half an hour each. I got to really re-set my intention and expectation and haul my lazy behind out of bed long enough, to then be willing and able to have some patience..
      :sleepysteph:

    6. #881
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      Another attempt last night, woke naturally just about 30 minutes before my 5hr alarm, no recall this time (also a bit of wine with dinner from 7pm-9pm, bedtime midnight), didn't worry about holding position so rigorously, so I changed a couple times before I usually would have before, feeling comfortable is definitely a big bonus to falling asleep faster I think! I kept to one single mantra "fly! ...I'm dreaming..." (I'm really focusing on flying from one particular place, and visualized this from time to time in small bursts. I'm hoping my singular focus/intent on that location/flying will help bring it about).

      I'm going to be doing a lot more WILD attempts now, I think. I'm not sure you want me clogging up the thread with my night by nights. On the other hand, you (Sageous) always have a valuable comment to add, so I try to give all the details I can, so that you can offer correction/suggestions! If there is nothing new I'll only post when I think there's something interesting.

      For one thing, it's starting to really hit me that WBTB is really good for dream recall and DILDs. I've been avoiding it for fear of middle-of-the-night insomnia, but if I do it at about 4.5 hours - 5 hours and not later, I seem to be able to get back to sleep in time for my peak dreaming time (which seems to be around 6 hours).

      I didn't make the WILD this last night (in fact didn't feel progress [although I did get to a light all body buzz at one point] so I stopped and turned onto my stomach (both sides were a bit sore) and I slept and had a nice DILD following a very vivid semi-aware dream! I then re-entered the dream non-lucidly and had a fairly aware interesting DO dream, where my first thought upon seeing a building was "it would be interesting to get lucid and just walk around in that building" (doh!). If I had kept just a bit of intention to remain lucid I think it would have been a DEILD, I think I fell back into the dream right away after waking from the lucid. I haven't done much of that (consciously at least) so when I awoke I was a bit confused on the ordering of the dreams and how I could have gotten the 2nd dream after I clearly recalled waking from the DILD while lucid.

      My WILD attempt felt a bit shorter than the previous night's. Falling asleep was a bit slower, and I started feeling a little negative about that, which I tried to nip in the bud and remain positive.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    7. #882
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      ^^ It's okay to enter as often as you wish, FryingMan, though I'll admit I probably won't have time (or need, given your reporting skills) to respond to large amounts of posts (I will try to answer any questions asked, though). It might be interesting to follow your step-by-step pattern as you progress, I think... and anyone else who'd like to do the same is most welcome; just be warned again that, though I will read them all, I'm not sure I'll have enough time to answer every post.

      That said, I did manage to find one comment to make about your last post, FryingMan:

      For one thing, it's starting to really hit me that WBTB is really good for dream recall and DILDs. I've been avoiding it for fear of middle-of-the-night insomnia, but if I do it at about 4.5 hours - 5 hours and not later, I seem to be able to get back to sleep in time for my peak dreaming time (which seems to be around 6 hours).
      Yes, attempting WILD after a WBTB tends to be an excellent way to do a DILD. It makes sense, because your head is already in the right place, your expectations/intentions are set, and you're attempting a WILD at (hopefully) the height of REM. So yeah, DILDs are a common side-effect of attempted WILDs; and a pretty welcome one from my point of view!
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    8. #883
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      ^^ Fair enough, I do like posting, because I think the progression is interesting to follow, as you noted.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    9. #884
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      Well my insomnia fears came true last night. Two mistakes, though: 1) used an alarm to wake up at 4.5 hours, and 2) ate a huge heavy meal right before bedtime. Just couldn't slip into sleep during the WILD, tried for an hour.

      After that couldn't get to sleep at all until around 8hrs, had one short vivid dream (standing in shallow lake water with my son, the wateris full of fish: trout, catfish, a baby manta ray, and a baby white wolf swam by .
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    10. #885
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      Hello,

      I'm a 17 year old boy and have been reading up on lucid dreaming for a month or so now. Exactly one week ago I started seriously trying to induce lucid dreams. I considered DILD as my induction technique since I have pretty good natural dream recall (I usually recall 2 dreams every night, remembering the major theme and significant actions), but after reading about WILD's I found it much more interesting and decided to try it out.
      Now, I've been looking at Sageous' classes in the DA and have followed his instructions, combined with Naiya's tips and some more things I found on this site. I use WBTB of course, but it isn't really working as of yet. If I stay up for 20 minutes or less I mostly fall asleep before I can repeat my mantra 20 times, and when I stay up for longer I wake myself up too much and cannot get to sleep at all.

      The most significant issue I'm running into is that I cannot take my focus off my body; I know the sleep paralysis and numbness are not stages I should aim for, but I just can't ignore it. The only thing that can take my mind off my body's state is listening to music, which in turn makes it impossible to fall asleep.

      Now I'm thinking of trying FILD tomorrow morning (with a WBTB) and see what results I get with that. Do you guys have any other tips or do you know how I can improve my WILD's?


      InnerVision

      BTW, one of my WILD attempts resulted in my first (5 second) lucid dream ever. If you want to read it, see below.

      [SPOILER]I'm having a general non-lucid dream in which I am at some university campus, just outside the main building sitting on a bench. Outside (in WL) there's some kind of noise that nearly wakes me up. During that 1 second of almost being awake, a single bright thought flows through my mind: 'Wow, I'd like to be lucid now'. Immediately after I fall back into the dream, and guess what, I'm lucid!
      Although I know I am dreaming, I am not yet in control; I'm more of a spectator. To really move into the dream, I get up from the bench and try to jump up the stairs to the main building. This works, and when I land this huge jump I actually feel the floor under my feet and hear the sound of my shoes hitting it. I get overly excited and lose control.
      It seems as if gravity has shifted 90 degrees and I'm 'falling' forward. I smack into a wall after 'falling' 20 metres and I realise I'm losing lucidity because I don't feel it at all. I am now lying on the floor and start rubbing my hands together, but because of the lack of lucidity I do this very slowly and softly, after which I wake up.[/SPOILER]

      ** This was copied directly from the introductions forum. I figured I'd get an answer a little quicker here, and hopefully from the master himself

    11. #886
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      Welcome, Innervision!

      I haven't got much in the way of advice for you, because you seem to be fairly thoughtful in your approach, and you're already "attending" my WILD class -- which hopefully means you are also checking out the Lucid dreaming Fundamentals thread, which I think would be most helpful to you -- so you'll be getting more than enough of my wind in your lucid sails, I would think!

      That said, here are a couple of thoughts:

      First, it is an excellent idea to sample each of the various routes to lucid dreaming, because ultimately you will be choosing them based on convenience and timing, and not because one is "better" than the other; in other words, it's good to have both DILD and WILD skills in your lucid toolbox, because circumstances and timing will find you doing WILD's and DILDs as necessary. Oh, and for the record WILD and DILD are not techniques at all, but names given to describe the respective nature of the transition to lucid dreaming you are making. The techniques are the things we do to cause those transitions (like WBTB, or MILD).

      Also:

      Quote Originally Posted by InnerVision View Post
      The most significant issue I'm running into is that I cannot take my focus off my body; I know the sleep paralysis and numbness are not stages I should aim for, but I just can't ignore it. The only thing that can take my mind off my body's state is listening to music, which in turn makes it impossible to fall asleep.
      If you find yourself unable to ignore the noise, then don't ignore it, as that could cause an even greater distraction than the noise itself. Instead, acknowledge it, register it as a milestone on the road to your dream, perhaps use the HI to help you form your dream... just don't make it important, or worse, a goal! There is a difference between spotting the noise and looking for the noise; the former is okay, the latter is not helpful.

      Regarding music: there is plenty of music that can actually help you fall asleep. A little Mozart, maybe Ravel's Bolero, or even Brahms' Lullaby might be just the thing to take your mind off your body while also settling your senses. If the classics just don't work for you, you could try some old soul (i.e., Barry White and Lou Rawls), blues, or jazz as well; it really comes down to your own tastes -- just avoid rock*, rap, or songs with lyrics that mean something to you. Music seems to touch special places in our inner psyche, and can prove very useful in setting the mood for many things, including LD's.

      That's all I got for now... good luck in your quest!

      * except maybe Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon or Animals.
      Last edited by Sageous; 05-19-2014 at 01:23 AM.
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      Thanks for the reply! I attempted the FILD this morning (lost consciousness though) and I have finally started a serious dream journal. I'm just going for DILD, MILD and WILD now on every possible occasion and I'll just try to be patient.
      Thanks for the advice on the music! I'm not really into classical but that's mostly because I never really looked into it, I'll give your suggestions a shot next time I WILD.

      Oh, and one note on the HI: I seem to get some HI really early (I see these really bright green circles (actually donut-shaped) floating around, getting bigger and smaller, turning purple and green again) but it never really evolves. I realised it only happens when I try to induce a WILD on a nap; when I do WBTB I don't see anything and just lose consciousness after some 20 minutes.
      Is this actually the start of HI or are they other visions?

      EDIT: I totally agree to you on music touching our inner psyche; music can greatly alter your state of mind to the point that it influences your daily life and behaviour (at least for me).
      Last edited by InnerVision; 05-19-2014 at 06:29 AM.

    13. #888
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      Quote Originally Posted by InnerVision View Post
      Oh, and one note on the HI: I seem to get some HI really early (I see these really bright green circles (actually donut-shaped) floating around, getting bigger and smaller, turning purple and green again) but it never really evolves. I realised it only happens when I try to induce a WILD on a nap; when I do WBTB I don't see anything and just lose consciousness after some 20 minutes.
      Is this actually the start of HI or are they other visions?
      It's likely HI, or something more physical, like (but not necessarily) afterimages of something you were looking at before your nap. I personally get a slightly disturbing image of large cat's eyes often when I close my eyes; I think it's an afterimage of the rim of my glasses (which is pretty mundane, I know... sometimes the boring explanation is also the accurate one). So no, there is likely nothing special about those images, and certainly nothing helpful to reaching a lucid dream. It's best to just ignore these images as well, or at least get quietly past them, and get on with your WILD attempt.
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      Yeah I figured it would be something quite dull. I sometimes try to actively change them into objects and eventually dreamscapes but that just doesn't work at all

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      First of all my apologies for double-posting, but I experienced something this morning that I just have to share. I did a WBTB WILD attempt, this time using music. I was perfectly able to keep awareness (perhaps a bit too much though) and focused on it while falling asleep. There were brief moments where I lost consciousness, so I knew I would be able to actually fall asleep. After a while I started to feel tingling in my legs, as if they were going numb. I noticed it and gained confidence because of it then just carried on without paying too much attention to it. After a couple minutes the tingling had spread throughout my whole body and then something quite frightening happened (now I know what to expect in terms of HI and SP so I didn't expect to be this frightened). First, I started to feel more and more nervous. Then, I started to shake. Not just vibrate, no I was really shaking badly. I was chattering my teeth and shivering all over as if I was really, really cold. It lasted for a minute or 5 and afterwards I felt completely awake. I thought I might've been a false awakening and did a RC but I was really just awake. I tried again but couldn't keep my mind at it, turned over and just went to sleep.

      Do you have any experience with this? It was really strange to me and ruined the attempt.

      InnerVision

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      ^^ This may be a first for this thread, but you've got me stumped, InnerVision!

      I have never heard of this series of things happening during a WILD dive. Though each of us has the potential for unique experiences, the experience you listed is truly unusual! It seems more physical than either HI (hypnagogic or hypnopompic imagery) or a false awakening (beware though: sometimes RC's work just fine in a FA), as though you were having some sort of reaction to your environment, or perhaps were suffering from an anxiety attack. The latter seems odd, because you should have felt mentally anxious as well, and that doesn't seem to be the case. But that does not mean it had to be physical -- your HI might just have been that emphatic. I would suggest that, assuming you are sure there was nothing physically wrong with you, you put this episode behind you, marking it off as the hopefully unique oddity it was. Hopefully it was just "noise" in the extreme, and it won't repeat.

      If it does happen again, try to remember that there was nothing wrong with you last time it happened, and that it will pass without hurting you, and then try to wait it out. Beyond that, I got nothin'.

      Also:

      Quote Originally Posted by InnerVision View Post
      Yeah I figured it would be something quite dull. I sometimes try to actively change them into objects and eventually dreamscapes but that just doesn't work at all
      Yes, this sort of imagery, being that it is both quite physical and happens while you are still basically conscious, is not really helpful in forming your dreams. Best to just let it pass on by.

      Well, InnerVision, you've got quite a few bumps to endure on your road to WILD; hopefully you will find the patience to endure them, or they'll give you a break on your next WILD attempt.

    17. #892
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      I was sooo close just before!
      Taking a nap, concentrating on my breathing, watching the optics on the back of my eyelids, which were really interesting - and they stayed to be looked at properly for a while at times, and crystallized to scenes at times as well. Bit of mantraing..
      And then - that was not the first thing - of all things, I had before dreamt of stuffing candy in my mouth - but then I dreamt of scratching an itch on my chin - and realized, that my arm was at the time lying next to me, and not scratching!!
      That jolted me awake then - damn!!

    18. #893
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      ^^ That was a nice try, Steph!

      Maybe next time you'll jolt yourself into a dream when you notice something like your phantom scratcher!
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      I'm for some time practicing WBTB + WILD, with(out) a result...

      I'll try to explain. This is the routine I'm doing:

      I usually do these practices the days I have more time to sleep (weekends), but also other days when I have to get up early to go to work and I don't have much time to sleep.
      When going to sleep on weekends I intend to wake about 6 hours after falling asleep (the other days I wake up naturally almost every day). I get up, go to the bathroom and I clear me a little (not to fall asleep very quickly!) and back to bed. As I'm quite relaxed, I concentrate on a mantra ("this is a dream"), I'm reciting mentally and rhythmic breathing, slow and relaxed. When I start to see images behind the eyelids, I will pop up letting that fill my "field of vision", in general, tend to be very clear and crisp dreamscapes, but then two things happen: I wake up completely and start again the process (or leave it and go back to sleep), or I fall asleep and I usually have "special" dreams, in the latter, for example, was with my sister and I suddenly realized I was in another body and I saw myself in front of me, I would go to another place and when I returned came back into my body and my sister said to me in both cases that I was in and out of my body!

      NyxCC has helped me a lot on this topic, but I'd like some additional tips and reviews, because in the end did not achieve lucidity, seems I'm closer to DILD or to WILD?
      Suggestions are allowed!

      Greetings and thanks!

    20. #895
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      Yeah - it's so hard for me to keep my cool when "something happens" in a WILD attempt - tends to give me a surge of excitement, physically.
      Thankfully that doesn't happen in DILD - but at least this time something did happen, and I'll hopefully get used to the craziness of it all soon!
      Bit paradoxical, this - I obviously did dream already - but I didn't know that - so technically it wasn't an LD - despite me being otherwise of almost waking-life functionality, cognitively. On the other hand - why find it normal to take a piece of candy and eat it in the middle of a WILD attempt. I would never do that - so I was clouded after all.

      But my excitability actually got better than it used to be - when confronted with stable optics in fine detail - that used to give me a jolt in the past, and this time not. There was one vision with a huge, completely sharp and clear eye hanging in space for example - looking at me, or into me it felt - and I could take that with (almost) no visceral reaction.
      Last edited by StephL; 05-28-2014 at 02:43 PM. Reason: can't seem to leave it be ..
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    21. #896
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      I have a question about WILDing, although by now I suspect that my succesful LD so far were all, errr, WILD-inspired/sparked DILDs. I hope after stating my progress so far this will make sense.

      It began with me being bummed that I could remember my dreams so bad. Every time I would try to remember them, the harder I tried, the more details shifted away, the dream basically disintegrated into smoke. I wanted to recall my dreams better, some made the impression of having important meaning etc. My wife bought me a small diary with a pen as a gift and said to me "the moment you wake up from a dream, be it awesome, frightening or just plain whacky -write it instantly down in this book". This has changed things considerably, i could remember my dreams a lot better, some are like real life memories now. My sleeping quality leaped upwards due to this. What a great gift. This is now about 10 months ago.

      Then I started to realize that I have some recurring themes and also quite some dreams where I did unusual stuff. In one dream I could fly around a small village on a long chain hanging from a large mill. The sensation was the bomb... this was a regular dream though. Stuff like that happened more often, obviously unrealistic stuff happening, but my mind always seemed to come up with a totally legit reasoning behind it. The flying, well that was because of the unusual thermics around the village. The mountain on pillars, they did that to improve ventilation... i read about it in some newspaper etc. As I wrote that down it dawned to me that if I would be able to notice that I am only dreaming, I should be able to do whacky stuff like this reguarly. Then I stumbled into this forum a few months ago and read with great interest about the possibility to willingly become lucid in dreams. Cool, I want that! So I read most of the tutorials and really started to wrap my mind around the matter.

      I had two moments in dreams that made me wonder "am I dreaming?" but one time coming to the conclusion that I was not dreaming and the other time I could not perform my RCs because my hands were glued to a steering wheel. But - later in that dream I was willingly flying towards a port with great speed before waking up. Still, this seemed like a dream to me, not a lucid dream. I did not feel like i was in control.


      Then I read your WILD classes and tried it, with first results after about two weeks. And now to come to my question, heres a short description of the dreams (most are in my DJ) and how I entered them.

      - After a long while trying to WILD on my back I turn to my left side, and then after another long while - I'd guess a solid hour all in all - I turn to my right side and after a short time I feel the strong sensation of a vortex like force pulling me into the bed and loud, thundering wind noises. And I hear my breathing very loud over it with my mantra playing in the back of my head all the while. Then, and thats the point now, I saw a guy next to my bed with a digital clock in his hands, that clock leading to me becoming lucid, surge of joy, hard time to stand up, roll out of my bed... BUT I did not really see images, see a dream form or anything like this. Vivid short dream scenes galore before the vortex stuff happened, but that's it. So because of this, and because I needed the digital clock RC to get lucid, I assume this was really just a DILD?
      This dream was the most physical so far, it felt so real and yet so completely otherworldly. I had the impression that I left my body with force, it was a tremendous act of will and strenght to get up, like my body was pulling be back all the time.

      - some nights after this I had another LD while WILDing, but this time I am certain that I just napped away while trying to stay awake and thankfully a DILD happened. I noticed a not working light switch, was directly lucid, stabilized etc. Nice dream. But this time it felt "semi lucid" from the start. Like I was only waiting for a clue like the switch to happen and work.

      - the next night was the same basically, I can barely remember trying to WILD (I did actually) before the dream happened. I was again very suspicious and aware when the dream started, and because of minor clues I do a nose pinch RC and gain lucidity. Thats not even correct I guess. It felt like being lucid before, and the RC just confirming the feeling I had from the very start. Another memorable LD commences.

      - the last one as of now had me waking up in bed lucid already. I knew I was dreaming from the start of it, confirmed with a light switch, but totally casually. It was just a nice to know thing.

      So I basically only ever feel the transition incoming, then seem to nap away or forget what happens inbetween. For me, the dreams are just there, I don't see them forming or anything like visual HI (was the man with the clock a HI?).
      So do I guess correctly that all of those LD were DILD, with my WILD attempt putting me in the correct mood?

      EDIT: Forgot to mention - lots of unsuccessful attemps inbetween. I don't attemp every night, but most tbh.. not the best approach I guess.
      Last edited by Djaxup; 05-28-2014 at 02:42 PM.

    22. #897
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      Wow - what a great write-up!
      Congratulation on your successful taking up the lucid journey!
      Sageous will love to read this, I am sure - and help you along.
      To me the dream with guy and clock sounds pretty WILDy! He will know, but I am curious - how do you mean this:

      Quote Originally Posted by Djaxup
      BUT I did not really see images, see a dream form or anything like this.
      You did dream to be in your room and getting up with difficulty - weren't there dream-images associated all along?
      Sounds like OBE to me - an out of body experience, which for me is just that - an experience of somehow semi-physically leaving the real body, leading people to believe it is supernatural. As far as I know, this is a classical type of WILD - you go from lying awake in bed to lying in bed "awake" just this time asleep and lucid. And everything is a dream then - your room, your real body and your dream body, and the difficulties - images dreamt up by you, because they "make sense" in the context - a seamless transition.
      Sorry for the interference Sageous and Djaxup ..
      Last edited by StephL; 05-28-2014 at 04:13 PM. Reason: can't seem to leave it be ..

    23. #898
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      Thanks for interferring StephL and hallo to a fellow german dreamer.

      Ok maybe I misinterpret the whole "images form" stuff. My impression after reading all the WILD insight here: a WILD is a WILD if you never lose consciousness along the way and know thereby that anything inbetween is a dream of some stage before dreaming. The first one felt absolutely different from the other LDs. It did not feel dreamy, it felt like a struggle, it was an utmost physical experience and in some ways I had the impression that I left my body by sheer force. The feeling of accomplishment after this was superb. But it was also very short.

      The other dreams were much easier, and I could do much more.

      I guess I was somehow expecting to witness the dream forming process more.
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      That was quite a post, Djaxup; thanks for sharing!

      Though it does seem that some of what you describe as DILD's may have been DILD's, meaning that you may indeed have lost your waking-life consciousness for a bit, and then woke up in a dream; but be assured that these are not "just" DILD's, they are LD's, and every bit as valid as if you had gotten there through WILD... it doesn't matter how you get to your dream, just that you do!

      Now:

      Quote Originally Posted by Djaxup View Post
      - After a long while trying to WILD on my back I turn to my left side, and then after another long while - I'd guess a solid hour all in all - I turn to my right side and after a short time I feel the strong sensation of a vortex like force pulling me into the bed and loud, thundering wind noises. And I hear my breathing very loud over it with my mantra playing in the back of my head all the while. Then, and thats the point now, I saw a guy next to my bed with a digital clock in his hands, that clock leading to me becoming lucid, surge of joy, hard time to stand up, roll out of my bed... BUT I did not really see images, see a dream form or anything like this. Vivid short dream scenes galore before the vortex stuff happened, but that's it. So because of this, and because I needed the digital clock RC to get lucid, I assume this was really just a DILD?
      Actually, this was probably a WILD, or at least an attempt at one (I can't tell if you ever made it to a dream). That guy with the clock (clever imagery, BTW!) was likely just HI or a dreamlet, but it certainly was a nicely directed bit of imagery... sort of like you created a DC -- or would that be HIC? -- to help you hold your attention through the torrent of noise, and to a degree it worked. If you see the guy with the clock again, you should thank him -- but be sure to do so only after you read his clock twice and confirm your lucidity!

      Oh, and here's a funny thing about RC's in dreams: important as they may be, I have a feeling they are rarely, if ever, used to get you lucid. This is because you are likely already lucid before you perform an RC, simply because the you held the suspicion that you were dreaming. I also think that most RC's done when not lucid result in conclusions that your dream is not a dream -- your dreaming mind just repeated for your what happens in waking life. So yeah, the guy with the clock might have been put there unconsciously, but you consciously recognized him for what he was -- an RC-delivery system -- and acted accordingly. The image didn't make you lucid; you already were, if only slightly.

      This dream was the most physical so far, it felt so real and yet so completely otherworldly. I had the impression that I left my body with force, it was a tremendous act of will and strenght to get up, like my body was pulling be back all the time.
      Next time this happens, and it will, you might pause for a moment to remind yourself that dreams are by their nature not physical. If it takes a tremendous effort to get up, it is because you believe it is taking a tremendous effort. Relax your mind, remember that your this thing you are attempting to elevate is not your actual body, and then try again, fully aware that this time you will get up just fine.

      And if you still can't get up? Well, then do something else! There is no requirement that you must do that roll-out-of-bed thing; if you cannot shake the "realness" of your situation, then create another one. Close your eyes and imagine yourself somewhere else (perhaps in your intended dreamscape).

      In other words, try to remember that there is no body trying to pull you back down, and in dreams the only strength that exists is in your mind, and not your DC body.

      - some nights after this I had another LD while WILDing, but this time I am certain that I just napped away while trying to stay awake and thankfully a DILD happened. I noticed a not working light switch, was directly lucid, stabilized etc. Nice dream. But this time it felt "semi lucid" from the start. Like I was only waiting for a clue like the switch to happen and work.

      - the next night was the same basically, I can barely remember trying to WILD (I did actually) before the dream happened. I was again very suspicious and aware when the dream started, and because of minor clues I do a nose pinch RC and gain lucidity. Thats not even correct I guess. It felt like being lucid before, and the RC just confirming the feeling I had from the very start. Another memorable LD commences.

      - the last one as of now had me waking up in bed lucid already. I knew I was dreaming from the start of it, confirmed with a light switch, but totally casually. It was just a nice to know thing.
      That I think echoes what I said about RC's earlier; that you are likely already aware you are dreaming before you use them to confirm what you already know.... Nothing wrong with that, of course; just sayin'.

      So do I guess correctly that all of those LD were DILD, with my WILD attempt putting me in the correct mood?
      They may have been DILD's, though it does seem like your awareness was staying with you to some degree, so they may have been WILD's too. Some answer, huh? I guess the real answer is this: Does it really matter? WILD or DILD, you made it to lucidity, and that's the goal regardless of the path.
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      Thanks a lot for your helpful answer, and for all the tutorials too. What they most of all did for me was truly encourage me to do this, that there is nothing to fear and perhaps most importantly giving me a "I WILL do this!" mindset. So yeah, at least in parts: thanks for changing my life for the better quite a feat.

      Of course you are right, just because my intended method did not work it does not matter how the dream was induced. Doesn't matter, had LD

      I find it very cool that over the course of the last LDs I seemed to get the hang of it better already. Setting intentions and mini missions inside the dreams, remembering this feels cool btw. That moment inside the dream when I recall my goal... just great. My very first has not yet worked out, but will some day, I am sure. I want to meet someone specific in my old attic room, but by now I was in two dreams where said attic was only one door away, but still I had other stuff to do and did not remember this certain goal. In one very short lucid moment in a regular dream I tried to dream spin into it, but woke up instead.

      By now, the relax and fall to sleep part is actually the hardest imo, and remembering/memorizing it all. I have a feeling that I "missed" a LD or two and don't remember them by now. There is so much to learn, I love that feeling.
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