Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

Sageous: I managed a WILD yesterday morning I appreciate the encouragement--I probably would not have continued if not for your advice and Sensei's competition

I lied flat on my back on the floor practicing SSILD for about four rounds. After this, I decided to roll over and just fall asleep. However, I decided to practice SSILD once more. I focused on my eyes, my ears, and then just rested on the sensation of my legs resting against each other. Before I could really do anything else, I felt the sensation of REM setting in (kind of a heavy, rushy feeling) and then my body was falling over. I thought I was slumping with sleep (which can't really happen easily when sleeping on my side), but when I had the sensation of rolling off of my sleeping bag and rolling in a semicircle, I knew I was WILDing.

Everything went well, and dream was very stable.

I tried it this morning, and just kept falling asleep! I managed to get a short lucid from MILDing but other than that, I could not reproduce the effects of yesterday. Do you notice anything that I did right in particular? I will also say that I had in my mind that since MILD had not worked previously in the night, I would just give WILD a shot and see what happened!

^^ What you did in particular? Well, you successfully completed a WILD!

WILD (and LD'ing in general) is not a "once you get it right, it'll work every time" sort of venture. Sometimes you can do the exact same thing two days in a row, with the the exact same mindset, and the exact same physical conditions, and one day will see a LD while the other just sees another hour of sleep. This is not a precise business, which is why I stress the fundamentals over techniques.

That said, I think what you did right was very simple: you did not give up. When you rolled over, you didn't just give up, but gave it one more try (ironically, changing your position, and slightly adjusting your mindset in the process, probably pushed you closer to lucidity; sometimes you just have to reset a little). Giving up just before the moment of transition is a common error (or weakness), and giving it just one more shot is a very good thing to practice, because just one more nudge might be all that's needed.

And yes, I'm not sure which night you tried MILD, but it is a good idea to try a WILD after a failed MILD, because your mind is already generally in the right place.

Excellent! I will look forward to more (successful, of course ) MILDs, and follow them up with more WILDs

Congrats ThreeCat!
My first WILD was also using SSILD, great technique. Not only for DILD, but better than I ever would have imagined for WILD.
I also use it as a relaxation technique when I have trouble falling asleep, so perfect for WILD. No sleep, no WILD. I had that problem a couple times...

Hi there Sageous, since you are such a fantastic advice giver I was wondering if you could help me with my WILD\LDing attempts.


1.Every time I try to DEILD I always need to go to the bathroom which doesn't let me focus on DEILDing and it really pisses me off(pun intended )

for more on that check out the edit in this post:

http://www.dreamviews.com/sleep-heal...need-help.html

2.This one is a huge problem for me. Every time I try to MILD or WILD(I usually combine the 2 techniques) I always get to a point where I just say my mantra and visualize abit,but then I just fall asleep, forgetting about WILD and MILD entirely.

This happened to me everytime I try to focus on doing these techs(so far).

Any advice?

Originally Posted by HeWhoShapes

1.Every time I try to DEILD I always need to go to the bathroom which doesn't let me focus on DEILDing and really pisses me off(pun intended )

That is a tough one! The chances for a successful DEILD are usually negated by a trip to the bathroom, but the urge to go -- and the thoughts that accompany it -- is almost guaranteed to trash your attempt. I have DEILD'ed a few times after a trip to the potty, but t isn't easy. You must hold onto your dream and your moment of sleep throughout your journey, sort of making the bathroom secondary. In a sense, just stay half asleep, with one foot in dreamland, and you should do fine. Kids (and my wife, for that matter) do this all the time, practically going to the bathroom in their sleep, so it is more than possible.

What you do not want to do, for sure, is lie there after you emerge from your last dream thinking about your need to pee; there is no better vehicle for fully waking up and eliminating your LD chances than an over-considered urge to Go. So just go, stay as sleepy and dreamy as possible, and think about nothing but your last dream as you make your way to the bathroom. Oh, and try not to turn on too many lights; light is the enemy of sleep, and can do just as much damage as the urge itself.

Worst comes to worst, if you become too awake for a DEILD, you can certainly simply convert your bathroom visit to a sort of WBTB presaging a WILD, right?

2.This one is a huge problem for me. Every time I try to MILD or WILD(I usually combine the 2 techniques) I always get to a point where I just say my mantra and visualize abit,but then I just fall asleep, forgetting about WILD and MILD entirely.

This happened to me everytime I try to focus on doing these techs(so far).

Any advice?

This is a tougher one, I think, because the answer ultimately is "Experience will resolve this," or "Keep at it, and in time you'll be able to stay aware while your body falls asleep," but who wants to hear that?

I did have one thought, though: you might consider modifying your mantra a bit. Make it something specific, perhaps that relates directly to your dream goals for that night. This might help strengthen it, and your focus, as sleep begins to come, and it also will help fill the "gaps" with something meaningful as you drift back and forth between wake and sleep.

Also, you could perhaps try Sivason's method of making yourself uncomfortable during the first part of your WILD dive, and only stretch out in your sleep position right when you feel yourself begin fall asleep ( I hope I got that right!). This will give you a slightly longer window of awareness, and make the moment of transition to sleep a little shorter, but you still have to stay wake when your body falls asleep.

Beyond that, I can suggest little more than keep at it, and in time you'll be able to stay aware while your body falls asleep!

Originally Posted by Sageous

That is a tough one! The chances for a successful DEILD are usually negated by a trip to the bathroom, but the urge to go -- and the thoughts that accompany it -- is almost guaranteed to trash your attempt. I have DEILD'ed a few times after a trip to the potty, but it isn't easy. You must hold onto your dream and your moment of sleep throughout your journey, sort of making the bathroom secondary. In a sense, just stay half asleep, with one foot in dreamland, and you should do fine. Kids (and my wife, for that matter) do this all the time, practically going to the bathroom in their sleep, so it is more than possible.

So your saying people can DEILD after moving? I didn't really know that. I usually just try DEILD every time I wake up and I try to be still even if I don't remember my dreams because from what I understand when your'e in that state it's really good to LD then becuase like you said your kinda half awake.

Originally Posted by Sageous

What you do not want to do, for sure, is lie there after you emerge from your last dream thinking about your need to pee; there is no better vehicle for fully waking up and eliminating your LD chances than an over-considered urge to Go. So just go, stay as sleepy and dreamy as possible, and think about nothing but your last dream as you make your way to the bathroom. Oh, and try not to turn on too many lights; light is the enemy of sleep, and can do just as much damage as the urge itself.

Lights will be very hard to shut since my bathroom and the area are filled with open windows in the morning(thanks to my mom) so i guess i'll close my eyes and hope for the best

Originally Posted by Sageous

This is a tougher one, I think, because the answer ultimately is "Experience will resolve this," or "Keep at it, and in time you'll be able to stay aware while your body falls asleep," but who wants to hear that?

I did have one thought, though: you might consider modifying your mantra a bit. Make it something specific, perhaps that relates directly to your dream goals for that night. This might help strengthen it, and your focus, as sleep begins to come, and it also will help fill the "gaps" with something meaningful as you drift back and forth between wake and sleep.

I usually try with my mantras to reflect on my intent for the night and for lucid dreaming in general (a mantra I use alot is "all of my dreams are lucid" usually said in hebrew) but my problem is that I even forget this mantra so I might have to think of a longer one so it'll keep me up(that's my theory anyway).

Originally Posted by Sageous

Also, you could perhaps try Sivason's method of making yourself uncomfortable during the first part of your WILD dive, and only stretch out in your sleep position right when you feel yourself begin fall asleep ( I hope I got that right!). This will give you a slightly longer window of awareness, and make the moment of transition to sleep a little shorter, but you still have to stay wake when your body falls asleep.

I might try sivason's method but what does he suggest that would cause discomfort? did he write a guide about that somewhere cuz I didn't really find it.
My problem I think is that I try to sleep to quickly since I always lie on my back and I try to change my position even though I usually just turn around and lie on my back again cuz it's so uncofortable


Thanks for everything sageous I think I should expriment with your advice and i'll keep you posted I it worked\failed.

Originally Posted by HeWhoShapes

So your saying people can DEILD after moving?

Sure. I personally think the whole "hold still" thing is a bit overrated, and that successful transitions come not from a well-placed body or fancy technique, but from a well-placed mind. Prepare you mind properly, and you very likely could get up, go to the bathroom, have a snack, even do a chore or two, and still retain enough sleep residue and memory of past dreams to DEILD. Of course I don't recommend this, because DEILD's really are easiest if you dive right back into your dream (and sleep) without much pause, but if you have a physical commitment (i.e., the need to pee) that arises when you wake, it is posible to tend to that commitment without losing your DEILD mindset... not easy, but, with practice, possible.

I usually try with my mantras to reflect on my intent for the night and for lucid dreaming in general (a mantra I use alot is "all of my dreams are lucid" usually said in hebrew) but my problem is that I even forget this mantra so I might have to think of a longer one so it'll keep me up(that's my theory anyway).

This may sound odd, but a shorter mantra might be a better idea. Yes, a longer mantra might be harder to remember, but that also makes it much easier to leave behind in favor of easy sleep when it gets too hard to say the whole thing. It's better, I think, to have a good, short mantra that keeps your mind on where you want to be in the upcoming dream. For instance, I often use the mantra "Remember," but when I'm saying it I'm actually attaching an entire set of non-verbal imagery relating to my dream plans. So I might just say one word, which is quite easy (and rhythmic, BTW, which helps with getting my physical body to sleep), but that words holds enough imagery and meaning to keep my attention firmly on the dive.

And yes, I also do have a generic, fall-back, mantra, "Here & Now," that I've found holds my attention when I have no real plans for a particular dive. Still short, but still meaningful.

I might try sivason's method but what does he suggest that would cause discomfort? did he write a guide about that somewhere cuz I didn't really find it.
My problem I think is that I try to sleep to quickly since I always lie on my back and I try to change my position even though I usually just turn around and lie on my back again cuz it's so uncofortable

I'm not sure where Sivason talks about this -- I heard about it here on this thread, and -- though I already knew about the technique from other sources -- I wanted to give him proper credit. He probably mentioned it in his Dream Yoga class, though. If you don't want to look, you might just PM him.

Though I for one would simply lie on my back with my ankles crossed, which for me is a position that guarantees that I won't fall asleep, the position or action that causes you discomfort is likely going to relate directly to you. I also suggest that you don't cause too much discomfort, as that will cause undesired distraction. I do suggest you check with Sivason, though, as his answers might actually prove helpful!

I think I should experiment with your advice and i'll keep you posted I it worked\failed.

That's good! God luck, and I look forward to reading about your successes!

I'm not sure where Sivason talks about this -- I heard about it here on this thread, and -- though I already knew about the technique from other sources -- I wanted to give him proper credit.

Here it is:

http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...ml#post2110778

Well, this is technically a WILD attempt, but a very unusual subset of WILDs.

Observations:
- All this generally occurs within 3 - 10 minutes
- I am totally relaxed, usually resting my head on my hand
- Eyes open or closed, doesn't matter
- My thoughts begin to wander much more outside of my conscious control, while still being within my conscious awareness.
- Thoughts link to other thoughts through recognizable associations from my personal experiences, but the associations are unconscious until back-tracking moment to moment after the event.
- The thoughts change from one to the other very quickly, not lingering on any particular one for much elaboration or further fleshing out of the details.
- I generally think in a particular direction, about a specific thing, on purpose, until I get distracted by random associations. Once distracted, other distractions arise and I usually don't even notice I've lost my focus.
* One of the thoughts becomes a dream at some point, and I directly experience it with all my senses. Just like waking life, I am at the place and time, surrounded by the characters and events that support that thought.
- As soon as I realize I'm seeing my thoughts, "dreaming", I think about how cool that is and wake up.
- The duration is historically quite short, just long enough to see a few scenes / hear a few sentences, and then notice I am dreaming. That recognition of "I'm seeing my thoughts" has occurred at the exact time I've woken up most times, but not every time.
- My head falling off my hand, leads to my body falling forward, the falling sensation then wakes me up before I biff it head first, pants down, off the toilet.
- I notice the process of what happened after waking up, or while waking up. (The whole distraction by random association, followed by random thoughts, and eventually a dream that spawns directly from the thought)

This is all happening while falling asleep on the toilet. Not on purpose, I would prefer to sleep in my hammock, but I am that tired often enough, that I'm seriously pursuing lucid dreams while on the john. I call it, "Toilet Induced Lucid Dreaming" - TILD. (Notably different from thirst, totem, or any normal acronym)

One thing I haven't tried, is sitting backwards on the toilet, then if I fall asleep, I can lean on the reservoir tank and squeeze a little more dream time in. The issue with that though is pants have to come all the way off...

Sageous I still don't believe myself, but actually got really close to WILDing!!!!!(or so I think )

Here's what happened:

Woke up and tried DEILD, but because of lack of concentration from a nearby ambulance and my mom talking I couldn't succeed.

So I tried to WILD\MILD. I wrote in my journal I forgot my dream(my recall is kinda bad now anyways though ) I lied down on the bed. I twisted my legs like sivason said and did my backup anchor (which is closing the gap between my thumb and index finger) and started vizualizing.

By the time I began saying my mantra "certain urges" started to crop up (thaks to my visualization I guess ) and I had to get rid of them with my right hand.

From here all I did was just lay down and drift off. I pretty much forgot about WILD and the MILD and drifted off with my head EXCEPT with my legs which I still decided to cross.

So I drifted until I got to a point where I heard and felt fast slapping on my head, I opened my eyes and saw my brother sitting on my bed, smiling and slapping me!!!

I was shocked " how did he get here!?" I thought and then I realized "Hypnagogic imagery!!!" I blinked and saw that he vanished then I immidetly closed my eyes and decided to continue the transition, but I don't remember exactly what happened next. I definetly fell asleep and all I remember was being stressed about the upcoming WILD and having some hypnogogic imagery(I saw wierd purple whirls with my eyes and also felt slight shaking I think.)


If there are 2 things I got from this attempt is that I am really stressed about WILD and I need to find a way to keep me up during the transition(probably should have continued with my mantra by that point).

I really feel exited for this though, I feel like i'm closer to WILD than ever!

Your brother slapping you was a dream, you were already dreaming!

So I drifted until I got to a point where I heard and felt fast slapping on my head, I opened my eyes and saw my brother sitting on my bed, smiling and slapping me!!!

That isn't HI, that's full dream! Ah Ctharlie beat me to it... But yeah dream beginnings can be fragile, just observe them for a few moments and let them settle before jumping in and acting/reacting

OH GOD you guys that was a LD!!!!!!!!!????? WOW you guys just made my day!!!

The thing is it just felt so life-like, like I actually woke up to see my brother slapping me!!!

I think I shouldv'e done a RC and not close my eyes shouldn't I?

Any other ideas on catching those pesky FA's?

Originally Posted by HeWhoShapes

OH GOD you guys that was a LD!!!!!!!!!????? WOW you guys just made my day!!!

The thing is it just felt so life-like, like I actually woke up to see my brother slapping me!!!

I think I shouldv'e done a RC and not close my eyes shouldn't I?

Any other ideas on catching those pesky FA's?

Well it wasn't LD, you didn't know it was a dream

At the very least it can be said you transitioned?

RC every time you wake up, every single time.

Originally Posted by HeWhoShapes

OH GOD you guys that was a LD!!!!!!!!!????? WOW you guys just made my day!!!

The thing is it just felt so life-like, like I actually woke up to see my brother slapping me!!!

I think I shouldv'e done a RC and not close my eyes shouldn't I?

Any other ideas on catching those pesky FA's?

A moment of calm with eyes open observing the scene, letting it settle, maintaining the calm thought that "this is a dream" (lest you begin to engage in the plot and get lost in it non-lucidly), followed by a gentle RC would have been ideal. Closing your eyes doesn't end the dream, but it can make it harder to engage it since visuals are the major sense most people experience dreams with. For FA's, always assume every single time you find yourself waking up that you're still in a dream, before you can prove otherwise with an RC. I caught a tricky FA a few nights ago and was lucky because I had been lucid just a little while earlier so the notion of lucidity was fresh in my mind. I totally and completely felt like I was in my bed in my room, but I suspected it was a dream because of the previous lucidity, and did the nose plug and WOOHOO still a dream and went on to have a vivid fun LD.

Another hint: when visuals depart, as I've experienced in a few start-of-dream LDs where I jump in too soon, the dream continues. Don't give up -- fight hard for that LD you worked so hard for. The main thing I and others find helpful is to generate sensations of movement: walk, jump, fly, dive into the "floor", spin around, rub your hands, expect to start seeing things, and then you usually will.

From this FA and other experiences I'm pretty sure I've missed several FAs over the past few months because I was convinced I was in my bed upon waking. Twice I've started rubbing my hands to stabilize a LD and I suddenly "wake up" to find myself in bed still rubbing my hands, thinking "ah man, lost it," and both times giving up and going right back to sleep. I bet these were FAs. A quick nose pinch would have proved it either way, always RC at every waking!

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Well it wasn't LD, you didn't know it was a dream

At the very least it can be said you transitioned?

Damn guess your right about that, but I guess I transitioned even though I didn't feel anything during it.


Do you really mean RCing everytime, even when doing DEILD?


thanks for the help of both of you!! I appriciate it

Originally Posted by HeWhoShapes

Damn guess your right about that, but I guess I transitioned even though I didn't feel anything during it.


Do you really mean RCing everytime, even when doing DEILD?


thanks for the help of both of you!! I appriciate it

Well for the DEILD situation, it depends. If you're aware that you just transitioned out of a dream and you think you're in bed possibly awake and want to DEILD back in but possibly it's a FA, you can do a motionless RC like levitating or the glottal stop breathing (like nose pinch but without moving), or do mental dream control like teleporting. You can also try willing your arms/legs to move but without engaging physical muscles (in a dream they'll move just by willing them), if your quick check indicates "awake" then dive right into the DEILD. A tiny bit of motion like doing a nose pinch will not necessarily ruin a subsequent DEILD. In my case I mentioned above I had no dreams on my mind so I did a nose pinch, but I'm not yet much of a DEILDer.

edit: p.s. this is one reason why developing the teleport ability is really useful: it can become part of a catch-all "am I dreaming?" check for many such occasions (escaping the void and checking FAs)

Originally Posted by HeWhoShapes

Do you really mean RCing everytime, even when doing DEILD?

If you are doing a DEILD properly, there would be no need to RC during it, because you are already pretty sure of your state. However, it wouldn't hurt to do a RC after you have re-entered your dream, just to help keep your mind focused. And yes, as FryingMan said above, you should also do one if you emerge from your DEILD attempt in bed, just in case it failed and turned into a FA.

If you are doing a DEILD properly, there would be no need to RC during it, because you are already pretty sure of your state.

^^ I thought this was so, but note the cases I cited above. In a few cases I was in a (short, not very stable) lucid dream, and then I found myself in bed (and not in some fantastic place, but my own bed). The experience felt like all the other times I had woken up from a LD and really was awake, so I assumed I was really awake those times, too, but now I'm not so sure.

^^ Then those are the times to do RC's!

Emerging from a DEILD into a FA means that the DEILD did not work; the DEILD transition has passed, and you are back to sleep. But it doesn't mean you've lost all chance of becoming lucid. It might be good to get in the habit of holding still whenever you wake up and taking a moment to do a RC, just in case you're dreaming.

If you meant that your DEILD worked, and you simply transitioned to a dream of your bedroom rather than returning to your dream, all without losing lucidity, then the DEILD did work, and there would be no reason for a RC because you never lost self-awareness. I guess doing a RC here would't hurt, but it would be redundant, I think.

^^ I interpreted the question to mean: "When you find yourself 'awake', isn't that the time to attempt a DEILD immediately, and isn't moving to perform an RC counter to the usual instructions of trying to fall right back into the dream?" That moment of waking could be a FA, after all! But I suppose again it depends on the context: if you knew you were just (or recently, as in my case, there was a NLD in between the LD and the FA) lucid, then there's a much increased likelihood of being in a FA (I suppose?). It's confusing!

^^ It can be confusing. Let me make it worse now:

I guess my point about all this is that, in order for a DEILD to work for you, you must be self-aware, and, of course, you must be aware that you are self-aware. In other words, since you are already "awake" when you decide to DEILD (preferably at or before the moment your body shows real signs of wakefulness) you are already aware of your state -- to DEILD, you must know that you are waking up, and that you are about to return to sleep and your dream.

Part of this knowing would be the full knowledge of where you are waking up. In other words, during a DEILD you will know if you have woken up into a "dream bedroom," because you never lost consciousness during the trip there. Still, if you find yourself in your bedroom yet are sure that you are still dreaming (as you would be had the DEILD worked), it wouldn't hurt to do a RC, just to solidify your surety... of course, just attempting to change the scene would probably work just as well.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a successful DEILD cannot include a FA. It can certainly include a scene of your bedroom appearing, but, since you are still self-aware, you will know that this scene is just another dream schema, and not your real bedroom. If you wake up in a dream bedroom and think it is real, then you are no longer DEILDing, but have fallen to sleep and are NLD'ing.

By extension, if you are in the habit of doing RC's whenever you wake up, and you have a FA, your RC will fail and you will able to return to your LD. If your DEILD was successful and you do an RC from habit after you see your dream room (even though you already know it is a dream room), no real harm will be done.

Also, as I said earlier, doing a RC during the DEILD transition is not a good idea, because it can muddle your focus and, yes, lead you to accidentally decide that you are awake because the act of questioning whether you are dreaming (an RC) might put doubt in your mind about your state, and cause lucidity to wane.

Oh, and keep in mind also that there's no reason you can't become lucid from a FA, either from that RC, or from simply closing your (dream) eyes and imagining yourself back in the dream. So it's always a good idea to keep at it after waking, just in case you really did not! Of course, you already know that...

I'm not sure if any of that made sense, or if I said anything different than I did before, but I guess little more need be said (by me, anyway) than this: a successful DEILD will not have a FA at its end, because you were always awake, so a RC is unnecessary, and doing one during the DEILD transition may be more a distraction than an aid; so wait until you think your transition is complete before doing RC's.


P.S.: I forgot to mention earlier that all this has no impact, from my point of view, on your (and Ctharlhie) excellent advice to HeWhoShapes -- thanks for that!

So DEILD does not describe the process, but your own relative state of lucidity. Let me ask this: if you catch the false awakening, have you now DILDed and not DEILDed?