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    Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

    1. #1701
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      That sounds like a good idea. I'll try it out and report in a few days, if something happened. I got three days off now, so doing longer wbtbs is easier than if there's school.
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    2. #1702
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kasy View Post
      Hey Sageous (and everyone else reading),

      .....after a year or so I'm still struggling with WILD, so I guess I'll just ask here.
      My problem is that I can't stay aware throughout the dive. I fall asleep very quick, with it taking about 2-5min or so (only while wbtb) and it's hard to keep my mind from wandering. ...
      Hi, I experience exactly the same thing...my mind falls asleep i.e. I lose self-awareness and all awareness during the dive so easily. Im continously amazed with so many people that struggle to fall back asleep, I guess we are on the other side of things.

      In RL I can sleep almost anywhere at anytime, in any kind of position, in public, on the bus, at the dentist, having my hair cut, etc. When WILDing Im typically self-aware at the beginning, then I sense 1 or 2 small "dreamlets" or HI images or sounds, very brief, they last 1 second or so. I ignore them, just let them pass and keep thingking, "OK, Im still aware, here we go"....and BAM, before I know what happened, I wake up and realize I had fallen asleep for XYZ time.

      Anyway, Im also trying different things for my WBTB WILDs. If I find anything useful, Ill let you know....
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    3. #1703
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fly_by_Night View Post
      Hi, I experience exactly the same thing...my mind falls asleep i.e. I lose self-awareness and all awareness during the dive so easily. Im continously amazed with so many people that struggle to fall back asleep, I guess we are on the other side of things.

      In RL I can sleep almost anywhere at anytime, in any kind of position, in public, on the bus, at the dentist, having my hair cut, etc. When WILDing Im typically self-aware at the beginning, then I sense 1 or 2 small "dreamlets" or HI images or sounds, very brief, they last 1 second or so. I ignore them, just let them pass and keep thingking, "OK, Im still aware, here we go"....and BAM, before I know what happened, I wake up and realize I had fallen asleep for XYZ time.

      Anyway, Im also trying different things for my WBTB WILDs. If I find anything useful, Ill let you know....
      Hey, I have the same problem. I literally fall asleep in seconds. And it is always me being like okay I am aware need to not fall asleep, and then I do. I can also sleep anywhere and can't remember ever not having a good night's sleep, so i find it strange people have trouble falling asleep tho. However, I never have any SP hypnagogia or anything, though I do get numb
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    4. #1704
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      Quote Originally Posted by Durza View Post
      Hey, I have the same problem. I literally fall asleep in seconds. And it is always me being like okay I am aware need to not fall asleep, and then I do. I can also sleep anywhere and can't remember ever not having a good night's sleep, so i find it strange people have trouble falling asleep tho.
      Okay guys, I know you know this, but I'm going to say it just one more time: You do need to fall asleep in order to have a successful WILD.

      If I were you I would treasure a natural ability to fall immediately asleep! What a time-saver, to get right to my LD rather than lying there for more than an hour trying to hold my focus while my body gets around to falling asleep!

      I assume you guys are talking about losing waking-life self-awareness while you fall asleep, and that the quick onset of sleep might be preventing you from maintaining that awareness, and that does need to be dealt with. But I highly recommend that, as you look at your own process, you try to separate that need to maintain self-awareness from the process of falling asleep, even if it only helps you come to appreciate your falling asleep "affliction" ... a quick return to sleep really ought to help, and not hurt, and trying to stay physically awake during a WILD dive is simply not a good idea, as doing so runs counter to the whole process.

      I'm reminded here about that movie, Inception. While I had major issues with about, well, pretty much everything in the movie, one thing I really liked was that the oneironauts took a drug (or did something, it wasn't very clear to me) that made them fall immediately to sleep so they could get to work... that was one thing I could really appreciate, and totally wish for!

      Also:
      However, I never have any SP hypnagogia or anything, though I do get numb
      That, too, is something I hope you see as a good thing; a little less noise and distraction during your WILD ought to be a most welcome asset (that's one thing I do have in my favor, BTW, I rarely experience any of the noise, and have always felt lucky about that).

    5. #1705
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      I assume you guys are talking about losing waking-life self-awareness while you fall asleep, and that the quick onset of sleep might be preventing you from maintaining that awareness, and that does need to be dealt with. But I highly recommend that, as you look at your own process, you try to separate that need to maintain self-awareness from the process of falling asleep, even if it only helps you come to appreciate your falling asleep "affliction" ... a quick return to sleep really ought to help, and not hurt, and trying to stay physically awake during a WILD dive is simply not a good idea, as doing so runs counter to the whole process.
      Thanks Sageous, and yes, i think that is problem, what you said makes sense. When I try to do a WILD without getting up after my alarm wakes me up then I loose my awareness super quick, but when I stay up for like 10 minutes, I can't get back to sleep. However, I am not sure how to let my body fall asleep while my mind stays awake. Do you have any tips? Would a mantra help? Thanks!

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      If I were you I would treasure a natural ability to fall immediately asleep! What a time-saver, to get right to my LD rather than lying there for more than an hour trying to hold my focus while my body gets around to falling asleep!
      Yes, I suppose that is true. I have twice tried to do a WILD when going to bed for the first time. The first time a stayed awake for a long time, maybe an hour, and felt numb and it was super weird because the first time I had tried it, but just like the second time, I never fell asleep until I decided to quit being aware. Though time did pass super weird in that phase, as it only felt like 10 or 15 minutes but I new it was longer as my mouth would get dry and I had an alarm beep every ten minutes so I knew how long it was.
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    6. #1706
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      Looks like we're already three. And I was successful tonight. Well, kinda at least. I stayed up for an hour, because I tried to see if staying up so long would change anything. While one hour isn't really suitable for me under the week, I wanted to go to an extreme now, because it's weekend at the moment so I can sleep as long as I like.
      So, while staying up so much longer than I do otherwise, I noticed my thoughts behaving quite a bit differently than normal. They're more random, just like if I go to sleep. After the hour was over I went back to sleep. I used my mantra and after some time I noticed what I think was a bit of noise (my body felt pretty light weight). Well, ignoring the noise was certainly one thing I learned from reading through this thread, so I did that. It went away rather quickly and soon after, I fell asleep normally. A few minutes later I got lucid in a normal dream.
      So yeah, I guess the long WBTB helped and because I know one night isn't nearly enough, I'll go on with one hour and maybe adjust it a little. I will practice keeping my self-awareness longer with Dream Yoga and meditation.
      If there's still something I , please tell me about it.
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    7. #1707
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      ....I assume you guys are talking about losing waking-life self-awareness while you fall asleep, and that the quick onset of sleep might be preventing you from maintaining that awareness, and that does need to be dealt with. ....).
      Thanks. Thats what I mean exactly. I go back to bed in order to fall asleep for the dive while trying to maintain waking-life, self-awareness, but then the WLSA (yahooo! new acronym...) gets swallowed up by an indomitable force similar to a boxing K.O. It starts small then hits me with an instant K.O.

      During the beginning of the dive I am self-aware, and there is a stream of conciousness. Intention is set, mantra is going on, expectation is sizzling, and all mental activity starts winding down; thoughts might wander, but my overall sense is that I'm diving, and that Im self-aware.

      Then I might notice some noise that I ignore, like an image, or a non-sensical idea, that passes by quickly. Only one or two of them. They are invasive, they come out of nowhere and inject themselves or impose themselves into the mind or thought. They just last a second or less. After they pass I notice that while they were passing the stream of conciousness was lost, was interrupted. It seems like I lose the self-awareness for that second. I dont pay much attention or focus on these intrusive images during the dive, I consider them part of the noise, I guess they are just HIs. Right now Im just describing my post dive observations in detail, but I ignore them during the dive.

      So I continue being self-aware, body very relaxed, mind relaxed, and then BAM, ....K.O., I'm out. Dont know what hit me, my WLSA is gone, and everything goes to sleep, mind, body, hair, nails, mantra. When I wake up Im not sure how much time elapsed, could be 1 hour or 5. And Im like...."gees, here we go again, I thought I was diving well, with self-awareness,.... how did this happen again??!"

      Ive been experimenting with taking a sip or two of coffee during WBTB time, and it looks like its helping. So now ....Im drinking coffee to help me go back to sleep and stay awake while Im sleeping .
      Last edited by Fly_by_Night; 05-19-2018 at 07:56 PM.
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    8. #1708
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kasy View Post
      And I was successful tonight....., I fell asleep normally.... A few minutes later I got lucid in a normal dream.
      .
      Congrats!!!!! Seems like it was a DILD, though, but lucid is lucid!!!
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    9. #1709
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      Wow; busy day! You guys seem to be moving right along though!

      Coupla things:

      Quote Originally Posted by Durza View Post
      Thanks Sageous, and yes, i think that is problem, what you said makes sense. When I try to do a WILD without getting up after my alarm wakes me up then I lose my awareness super quick, but when I stay up for like 10 minutes, I can't get back to sleep. However, I am not sure how to let my body fall asleep while my mind stays awake. Do you have any tips? Would a mantra help? Thanks!
      I have no more tips than what is listed in the WILD Class, in this case (and Kasy and Fly_By_Night's cases too, apparently ).

      Yes, a meaningful mantra would help, as would continued experimenting with WBTB "Up" times, but in the end, when you're along as far as you are, the tip can be nothing more than "Keep at it." WILD (and LD'ing in general) really is a question of balance, of finding that sweet spot of self-awareness/timing/physical action/focus/lucid mindset/lots of other things, a spot where you've got all your cognitive and physical balls being properly juggled. And the only way to find that sweet spot is with practice and patience. There's not much else to say about it, beyond what is in the WILD class; the rest is up to you!

      I know that is likely not the kind of tip you want to hear, but it's what I got.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kasy View Post
      And I was successful tonight. Well, kinda at least. I stayed up for an hour, because I tried to see if staying up so long would change anything. While one hour isn't really suitable for me under the week, I wanted to go to an extreme now, because it's weekend at the moment so I can sleep as long as I like. ... So yeah, I guess the long WBTB helped and because I know one night isn't nearly enough, I'll go on with one hour and maybe adjust it a little. I will practice keeping my self-awareness longer with Dream Yoga and meditation.
      If there's still something I , please tell me about it.
      See? A little experimentation can help! One night of success is indeed not definitive, so keep at it; you may be close to that sweet spot!

      Quote Originally Posted by Fly_by_Night View Post
      Thanks. Thats what I mean exactly. I go back to bed in order to fall asleep for the dive while trying to maintain waking-life, self-awareness, but then the WLSA (yahooo! new acronym...) gets swallowed up by an indomitable force similar to a boxing K.O. It starts small then hits me with an instant K.O...So I continue being self-aware, body very relaxed, mind relaxed, and then BAM, ....K.O., I'm out. Dont know what hit me, my WLSA is gone, and everything goes to sleep, mind, body, hair, nails, mantra. When I wake up Im not sure how much time elapsed, could be 1 hour or 5. And Im like...."gees, here we go again, I thought I was diving well, with self-awareness,.... how did this happen again??!"
      Actually, it sounds like you're doing pretty well. You could be doing everything correctly, and that KO is just a hurdle that only experience will eventually get you over. A longer WBTB "up" time might help, and maybe a more meaningful mantra, or maybe something else; but you are right there, and might just need a bit more practice and experimentation. Again, I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's what I seem to have today.

      Ive been experimenting with taking a sip or two of coffee during WBTB time, and it looks like its helping. So now ....Im drinking coffee to help me go back to sleep and stay awake while Im sleeping .
      That's an interesting solution; don't drink too much!

      Okay, that's enough of saying "Keep at it" for today. Good luck with your next dives, guys!
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    10. #1710
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      Hello everyone!

      Well, tonight I had an unexpected WILD and I decided to talk about a problem I have been having for a long time.
      So, I woke up in the middle of the night (don't remember the exact time) and thought "I'm awake, might as well try to WILD". So I settled down and start the WILD routine.
      I probably fell asleep at some point, because I don't remember the transition. However, next thing I know I am in bed, and I know fully well that I am dreaming.
      I do an RC and immediately start to think "stabilization, I need to stabilize". It worked to a certain extent, my vision got slightly clearer. However, as per usual, I lost stability and woke up.
      Now, this happens to me a lot and I it is kind of frustrating, when I get to that point I already did most of the work to WILD. This seems to happen a lot with WILDs, the dream is highly unstable after I make the transition.
      Tips?

      Thanks in advance!
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    11. #1711
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      ^^ One tip I can think of offhand is to quietly enjoy your lucidity for a few minutes, even if imagery is not as good as you'd like it to be, and hold off on applying any techniques until you are firmly into your dream.

      Successful WILDs tend to happen when you are very close to wakefulness, so, once the transition has happened, you are still not far from being awake, and your body will tend to respond to any cues you might give it to start the waking process. One very clear cue, I think, might be doing stabilization techniques (or any other techniques, for that matter), which could be interpreted by your sleeping body as signs that you wish to be awake -- because, after all, isn't a stabilization technique really nothing more than a shout of sorts to be more lucid, aka awake? Also, techniques tend to require rational or abstract thoughts, and such thoughts run counter to the functions of sleep and dreams, so there too is another signal that your body might interpret as desire to wake up.... and I haven't even gone into the fact that the emotions that accompany a felt need to do those techniques are yet another, louder, shout to your body to wake back up.

      WILD, and lucidity in general, is a question of balance, a matter of staying awake while also going to sleep -- and staying asleep. During those moments when the balance is very hazardous, like the WILD transition and the few moments afterword while your body is getting back into sleep mode, maintaining that balance becomes ever more critical. Doing things that might tip that balance toward wakefulness, like techniques, is probably not helpful during this critical time.

      It might be better to simply calm your mind and let the dream work itself into better clarity on its own, while simultaneously allowing your body to return to a deeper sleep that is a little less responsive to the conscious commands you wish to apply to your dream (and not your body). Doing so might result in a dull dream for a few minutes, and maybe even a slight drop in lucidity, but in the end it might also get past those first few moments of post-WILD sleep where you are still firmly on the fence between wake and sleep.

      So take a chance, relax, and let the engines of your mind and body do their thing on their own until you have firmly reestablished your state of being asleep and dreaming, and then let the balance swing back in favor of lucidity. Doing this might take some practice -- just training yourself to not resort to techniques might take a bit of practice in itself -- but I think with time and experience you will find that waking yourself up will become less of a problem.

      Oh, and don't forget: if you do wake yourself up, you are still in a position to return for another try through DEILD.
      Last edited by Sageous; 05-22-2018 at 02:19 AM.
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    12. #1712
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      Hi all, I'm ZAD! For some background on my lucidity, I almost exclusively DILD after WBTBing, although I have DEILD'd a few times before. While my consistency as far as getting lucid has been improving in the last month (had four nights lucid in a row last week which is pretty good for me), I hadn't ever WILDed successfully until the 15th of this month (DJ entry). It was an interesting experience for me for a couple of reasons, for one I wasn't able to access my dream body and was instead a point of awareness. I've experienced something similar to this on August 23rd when I had an acute awareness of my waking body during the lucid; in that case it was so bad that I could actually only see out of one of my dream eyes, if that makes sense, to the point that my vision was actually portrait orientation, like a phone video. In that older dream I was able to zoom in and out, and in the recent WILD I was able to look around and spin myself via will, but I still find it pretty interesting, wondering if any of you have experienced something similar.

      Anyway, from now on I think I'm going to try WILDing once every weekend. So I'm reading through your guides now Sageous (great stuff by the way ) and just wanted stop by in this thread. I'll post a progress report after my attempts this weekend.
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    13. #1713
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      Got lucid a lot this weekend, but only WILDed on Saturday morning (DJ). I think (possibly becuase I was deprived of sleep all week and then flooded myself with it) I hit the sweet spot of lingering between the sleeping and waking states that allowed me to keep slipping in and out without losing awareness in a few cases (usually at the beginning of a lucid dream chain). I hung in for quite a lot of lucids with DEILD and wouldn't move after each waking, so I didn't write them down as they were happening. Kind of off-topic, but does anyone have any tips on improving recall when you do long chains of dreams/lucids like this? I've tried the peg system and method of loci, but neither of them work as well as I'd like; maybe I just need to practice more.

      Something else I noticed is that with the few WILDs I've had, I only ever get auditory hallucinations (before I knew about LDing I seriously thought I was a schizo because I'd hear whole conversations when on the verge of sleep). Usually speech or a loud bang or crack. I guess this is a good/normal thing but just wanted to point it out.
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    14. #1714
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      bedtime 945- wbtb 3:20
      I'm up for a few minutes - do a couple of light yoga stretches.

      my wild - after a shudder, i feel my body is light (almost weightless) and stand up out of bed - it's blurry foggy, i'm very tired, struggling to stay awake. I'm C.L.E.A.R.ing - nose pinch - i'm dreaming - looking around the room - i walk to the wall by the bathroom and touch it - i'm saying "I'm lucid, I'm lucid" the light blue of the wall fades to white and i'm back in my body. It's several minutes before I fall back asleep.

      this starts a chain of DEILDs for the night. Good night of dreaming -
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      Quote Originally Posted by ZAD View Post
      Kind of off-topic, but does anyone have any tips on improving recall when you do long chains of dreams/lucids like this? I've tried the peg system and method of loci, but neither of them work as well as I'd like; maybe I just need to practice more.

      It's a choice. You either pull out and grab the memory or keep going to live the experience and maybe remember less. If you intend to get better at recall, you will but like anything else it takes time.
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      last night - wbtb - do a little bit of sitting meditation and some very light yoga stretching - i lie down and wait. after a few minutes i hit trance. Colors are flying, then my body is jerked on a ride like I'm on a roller coaster. i start zipping fast horizontally and i look down to see my body fade into existence. Once there, I do a nose pinch breath and confirm the dream, then i look down at my hand and it looks like a child drew it with too short fingers and 7 fingers.
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      10:00 bedtime
      2:55 wbtb
      Wake quality 2 (almost totally awake)
      10 minutes up - light stretching and sitting meditation
      sat in light hypnogogia for hours,
      never fell back alseep
      changed positions 3-4 times
      got body heavy 2-3 times
      some light images but nothing came through.
      6:15 wake up
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      Hello! First I want to say thank you to Sageous! This class is amazing and I am excited to see that you still reply because I just joined like three days ago.

      I have been looking for some place to speak with other oneironauts for a while. I used to LD as a kid with no effort and no problems at all. Ahhh the glory days! Now I just started actually trying to LD again since December of last year. I am trying to find one technique and stick with it for a while. I found this one! I tried it twice now with no luck. I've ready as many pages of this thread as I could stand looking for my answer. I think I've found it, but wanted to detail my experience and ask anyway!

      So, before December I don't remember recalling any dreams at all. (too much mary jane I think. I've since quit in a serious effort to regain my lucid dreaming magic powers) Now, since I have started keeping the dream journal I can recall sometimes 4-5 dreams a night in very vivid detail. Sometimes so much it gets nerve racking trying to write everything because I'll be writing for 4-8 pages at a time depending on how many dreams I remember.

      Last night and the night before I tried this technique. I normally speak an affirmation I made throughout the day "I am a master of lucid dreaming. When I am in a dream, I recognize I am dreaming" so for this I shortened it to "I am the master" to remind me that I am in control, I know who I am, and I am aware and conscious at all times. I set an alarm and actually woke up with two looong vivid dreams before my alarm went off. It was only about 3 hours in. The instructions said to wait for about 5, but I said oh well ...I already woke up so whatever. I turned on a light next to my bed, wrote my dreams, and then went back to bed.
      At first I laid on my side because I wanted to fall asleep quickly, normally I do anyway. I had previously set my intention during the day and my expectation to enter the first lucid dream I ever had when I was a kid. It was a repetitive dream. I am beside my grandmothers house walking in a field and three witches come from the sky and chase me. When I finally became lucid in the dream (years ago) I went something like... I am walking out of my grandmothers house on the most beautiful day ever created. Seriously. BEAUTIFUL. I am walking around to the side of her house and something tells me "Stop! When you take a few steps look up. There will be three witches" I did and there they were... tiny... like birds then larger and larger until the were right in front of me. I braced myself and I knocked the middle one off her broom stole it and flew into the sky with her sisters chasing me. They never caught me (after all those years of having that dream, they should have had enough practice but oh well!)

      So... back to last night... I am laying on my side. I tell myself "The next experience I have will be a dream" I repeat my mantra on every exhale "I am the master" and... I end up laying there for two hours until the alarm I set did go off. I did feel the noise. I tried my best to ignore it and my mind kept coming back to this forum. I'm like HOW IN THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO IGNORE ALL OF THIS?!?! This is less like noise and more like turbulence. Body parts going numb then unnumb, my body going through phases of feeling light then ultra light. After a while, I thought oh yes! I'm falling asleep! I tried not to pay attention to it, then I wanted to change positions so bad. But I just brought my mind back to my breath every time and my mantra. I think I saw HI, but I never knew what it was before so I don't know what was happening honestly. Sometimes it was just like shapes and ... I don't know. like when you close your eyes and press on your eye lids and you get this stuff going on. Then sometimes my mind would trail off (should I have let it go then? Maybe I would have fallen asleep?) when I noticed it was trailing I brought it back to my breath and mantra. I have practiced meditation for years now, where I focus on my breath and my body and let the thoughts go, but I feel this is working against me because I'm supposed to be ignoring my body, right? After about an hour and a half... I can't take it anymore, my hand is numb and it's bothering me so bad so I lay on my back and start again, then a little while later... maybe another hour and my alarm goes off.

      I normally sleep with low solfeggio frequencies playing. I think I kept hearing them and they were distracting. So I will not sleep with those for a while while I try this. I think maybe it caused my mind to focus too much on the external world. I also have a dog who sleeps at the end of the bed. I honestly found myself slightly jealous because I hear him snoring after a while and doing his dog sleep shaking thing. I'm like dang... he fell right asleep and is having an amazing dream and I'm still here in the bed. I consider waking him up out of spite, but I realize once again my mind is trailing so I bring my attention back to my breath and mantra.

      I am guessing I need to learn to balance between focusing on my mantra and allowing myself to fall asleep. Normally as soon as my head hits the pillow I'm not there for 5 minutes before I'm asleep. I was definitely surprised that I was awake this long. I am trying to figure out how to go to sleep with that balance and not be there awake.

      Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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      Welcome, Awalker!

      It looks like you've made an excellent first effort, but here are a few thoughts that might help:

      * It's not a surprise to me at all that you didn't get to sleep; between the excitement of the first attempt, the numerous things you were mentally attending to, and all those distractions, it almost makes sense that sleep never took hold. I personally have a rule of thumb that says if I'm not asleep in 90 minutes, it's time to give up on the dive.

      * I didn't see anything in your post about timing... whether you made your attempt at bedtime or if you did a Wake Back to Bed (WBTB) after a few hours' sleep, and how long that WBTB lasted. If you didn't do a WBTB, I suggest that you do, preferably after waking naturally from at least 5 hours' sleep.

      * I may have misunderstood, but it sounds like you were attempting, through expectation, to incubate a specific dream. I would hold off on things like that until after you've had a few successful WILD's. Until then, it might be a good idea to keep your expectation/intention focused on having your mind in the right place for a WILD transition.

      * Yes, the noise can be a distraction, and only practice will help you ignore it, or perhaps register it as a signpost on your path to the dream, or even put it to use for you. For now, just try to be comfortable as it occurs, and try not to focus on it.

      * The process necessary for a successful WILD transition is very much like meditation, so if you can attach your meditation experience to your attempt, that would be a good thing... i.e., minding your breath is an excellent tool for maintaining focus and mantra. Also, there's really nothing wrong with being aware of the presence of your body -- just as it is okay to move a bit now and then, perhaps if your hand, say, becomes uncomfortable or maybe if you have an itch to attend to.

      * Yes, if those solfeggio frequencies are a distraction, you definitely should try doing without them... especially if their normal intended purpose is to bring on non-lucid sleep!

      * This might be the toughest part, but you might consider leaving your dog outside the room during your WILD attempts; his presence is clearly a powerful distraction. If you make your attempt late enough in your sleep cycle, your dog might not mind being sent to another room.

      * And yes, WILD is far less about technique than it is about balance; but with practice you should find that balance between wake and sleep and learn to make it a comfortable fence to perch upon while your body falls fully asleep.

      Finally, I wasn't clear if you were actually taking the course or just following this particular thread, but if you aren't doing so already I highly recommend that you read through the WILD sessions to which this thread is attached... pretty much everything you encountered is discussed there, and you might find some suggestions I didn't think of today (or totally forgot; it's been a while!).

      All in all, though, you seem to be on the right path; good luck!

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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Welcome, Awalker!
      * I personally have a rule of thumb that says if I'm not asleep in 90 minutes, it's time to give up on the dive.


      I was thinking that even 20 minutes were too much, I always give up after that. It's seems diving on my back is almost impossible for me, before when I was still able to sleep on my side due to less back pain, I always dive in the first 5-10 minutes. I even left a tip for myself in my DJ "listen to the voices, they will lead you to the other side", but now sleeping on my back I very rarely hear these voices again. When meditating, do you stay for 90 minutes as well?

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      Thanks for the Feedback!

      Quote Originally Posted by GordanFreeman View Post


      I was thinking that even 20 minutes were too much, I always give up after that. It's seems diving on my back is almost impossible for me, before when I was still able to sleep on my side due to less back pain, I always dive in the first 5-10 minutes. I even left a tip for myself in my DJ "listen to the voices, they will lead you to the other side", but now sleeping on my back I very rarely hear these voices again. When meditating, do you stay for 90 minutes as well?
      Thank you GordanFreeman for your response! I have mediated for a long time now. I do not meditate for 90 minutes at a time but maybe 15-20 minutes twice a day before and then now I try to do at least 30-40 minutes twice a day. I have done a number of different types of meditations, now I am currently practicing Vipasanna meditation; however, I only really do the Anapana part. Here you focus on your bodily sensations around your nose area and keep your mind on your breath until you feel tingles. You can look it up on youtube. I'm sure there will be someone showing you what to do and there are also daily speeches given by Goenka (sp?). Normally you have to go to a place where they teach Vipasanna meditation. It is a silent 10 day meditation course and you meditate about 8 hours a day split into two hour segments. I haven't ever done that but there is a course on Udemy if you have ever heard of this site.


      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Welcome, Awalker!
      Thank you Sageous for your response and for the welcome! I am going to answer your questions because I am really trying to learn this.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      * I didn't see anything in your post about timing... whether you made your attempt at bedtime or if you did a Wake Back to Bed (WBTB) after a few hours' sleep, and how long that WBTB lasted. If you didn't do a WBTB, I suggest that you do, preferably after waking naturally from at least 5 hours' sleep.
      I originally set my alarm for about five hours after going to sleep, but I naturally woke up before then. I always have a dream or multiple dreams about three hours in and my body will wake me up here the first time. Should I just go back to sleep and wait for the 5 hours? I normally sleep for about 6-7 hours, but since starting my Lucid Dreaming journey in December I have trying to get my body used to sleeping for 7-8. I am a very active person and have always gone on about 6 hours of sleep. When I wake up I'm just... full of energy and ready to go lol.

      But should I follow the 5 hours or just when my body normally wakes me up after my normal few dreams (less than 5 hours)?


      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      * I may have misunderstood, but it sounds like you were attempting, through expectation, to incubate a specific dream. I would hold off on things like that until after you've had a few successful WILD's. Until then, it might be a good idea to keep your expectation/intention focused on having your mind in the right place for a WILD transition.
      Yes, I was following what you said in one of the other posts about expectations and intentions. I will hold off on this. So I should just set my expectation/intentions on... I will be lucid in my dream? This is simple enough?

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      * Yes, if those solfeggio frequencies are a distraction, you definitely should try doing without them... especially if their normal intended purpose is to bring on non-lucid sleep!
      I actually use Lucid Dreaming Solfeggio/Subliminal videos from youtube. But my mind kept going back to them when I was trying to ignore the noise and just go to sleep. I tried three times last night without them. My body woke me up without an alarm after a few dreams, I would record them then try the WILD Technique, but each time it didn't work. I ended up giving up and just going to sleep and having a non-lucid dream. I saw one of my favorite singers in one lol. That was nice.



      [QUOTE=Sageous;2232245]

      * This might be the toughest part, but you might consider leaving your dog outside the room during your WILD attempts; his presence is clearly a powerful distraction. If you make your attempt late enough in your sleep cycle, your dog might not mind being sent to another room.
      [\QUOTE]

      I was thinking this too. He is absolutely not going to like that, but I am going to give it a go.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Finally, I wasn't clear if you were actually taking the course or just following this particular thread, but if you aren't doing so already I highly recommend that you read through the WILD sessions to which this thread is attached... pretty much everything you encountered is discussed there, and you might find some suggestions I didn't think of today (or totally forgot; it's been a while!).
      I read through all of these posts twice and made a little note sheet for myself to review. I have already been doing some of these things already. So I skipped doing one part per week and went straight to the Dive. I adjusted my RCs to include RRCs as well. I don't know if I should replace them or just add the RRC on the end.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      All in all, though, you seem to be on the right path; good luck!
      Whoo! I'm glad to hear this. I think I will be sticking with this technique for a few months to make some progress!
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    22. #1722
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      Quote Originally Posted by awalker54 View Post
      I originally set my alarm for about five hours after going to sleep, but I naturally woke up before then. I always have a dream or multiple dreams about three hours in and my body will wake me up here the first time. Should I just go back to sleep and wait for the 5 hours? I normally sleep for about 6-7 hours, but since starting my Lucid Dreaming journey in December I have trying to get my body used to sleeping for 7-8. I am a very active person and have always gone on about 6 hours of sleep. When I wake up I'm just... full of energy and ready to go lol.

      But should I follow the 5 hours or just when my body normally wakes me up after my normal few dreams (less than 5 hours)?
      I would suggest doing both. You could plan on waking later in your sleep cycle, but if you wake earlier it wouldn't hurt to attempt a WILD dive then... you might fail, but at least you'll be getting some practice in. Then, when you wake later, you can still go ahead with your WILD attempt as planned. There's no harm in extra efforts!

      Also, I usually recommend that you do not use an alarm to wake you up for WBTB. Alarms tend to do too good a job of waking you up, and you might find yourself fully awake and unable to find your way back to your sleep cycle. If it is possible to simply wake up for your WBTB, try to follow that route. If not, then I would suggest you use an alarm that gently wakes you.

      Yes, I was following what you said in one of the other posts about expectations and intentions. I will hold off on this. So I should just set my expectation/intentions on... I will be lucid in my dream? This is simple enough?
      Sure, that sounds good!

      I read through all of these posts twice and made a little note sheet for myself to review. I have already been doing some of these things already. So I skipped doing one part per week and went straight to the Dive. I adjusted my RCs to include RRCs as well. I don't know if I should replace them or just add the RRC on the end.
      That's good to hear; I hope the info helps! I would definitely recommend that you continue doing RC's and RRC's separately, or in distinct succession, because they really do two different things.


      Quote Originally Posted by GordanFreeman View Post
      I was thinking that even 20 minutes were too much, I always give up after that. It's seems diving on my back is almost impossible for me, before when I was still able to sleep on my side due to less back pain, I always dive in the first 5-10 minutes. I even left a tip for myself in my DJ "listen to the voices, they will lead you to the other side", but now sleeping on my back I very rarely hear these voices again. When meditating, do you stay for 90 minutes as well?
      Hey, if you can get to sleep in less than 20 minutes, then more power to you! That 90 minute max is a suggested maximum, and not a requirement. If you can successfully complete WILD transitions in less than 20 minutes, then count yourself lucky! However, if you are simply giving up after 20 minutes without making it to the transition, you might consider giving yourself a bit more time.

      I'm not sure the meditation time question was directed at me, but I don't do much meditating outside of active WILD dives, so I'm not sure I can supply a helpful answer -- but, on the rare occasions that I do meditate, I am usually at it for at least an hour, often two.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Hey, if you can get to sleep in less than 20 minutes, then more power to you! That 90 minute max is a suggested maximum, and not a requirement. If you can successfully complete WILD transitions in less than 20 minutes, then count yourself lucky! However, if you are simply giving up after 20 minutes without making it to the transition, you might consider giving yourself a bit more time.

      I'm not sure the meditation time question was directed at me, but I don't do much meditating outside of active WILD dives, so I'm not sure I can supply a helpful answer -- but, on the rare occasions that I do meditate, I am usually at it for at least an hour, often two.


      I decided to temporarily leave Dreamview and concentrate more on meditation and Lucid Dreaming, but before that, as a parting gift I will tell you something interesting that you can try. Yesterday when you told me that I must not give up so fast on the dive. I decided to experiment with my own technique from several years ago. Before I was just starting to hear the voices while falling asleep and I focused on them, I went directly into dream without losing awareness, but since I started sleeping on my back I no longer hear them. That's why I decided why not to induce them myself and so I did.

      This morning, after 5 hours of sleep, I lay on my back with the intention of lucid dreaming, I closed my eyes and gave myself about 5 minutes to relax and start asking questions like: "Is there anyone around?", "Answer me ?", "What is your name?".(you must continue to ask questions) At first I only heard static noise, but after a while I began to hear an incomprehensible speech, after a while I started to hear a woman's voice (you have to expect someone to answer or maybe it will not work) I started talking with her by concentrating on her voice, but I received a strange feeling that I sleep on my belly and someone were sitting on me and preventing me from breathing, so I opened my eyes to check, but I was still on my back, apparently it was a hallucination from the SP. I closed my eyes again and repeated the steps from the beginning, this time pass over the strange sensations.

      As if an invisible hand pulled me straight into the dream, and next to me was the woman of the voice. You must try not to fall asleep unconscious while listening to her/his voice. It took me about 20 minutes for a full dive and the dream lasted about 15 minutes, it was unstable because I forgot to stabilize it. I tried two more times, the second time took me about 10 minutes and the third only 5 minutes. Every time I come to an unexpected place. The first time I was in an office building with small shops, the second time I found myself in a "public house"?, but I fled outside because the view was outrageous, and the third time I fall through a seven gold rings that were spinning and forming a portal. I fell on the sand, it was night, but there was a bright moon and a lot of stars. The sand was reddish in color, I walked a bit forward when I saw the pyramids of Giza on my left far away. I had never seen them in live, they were marvelous. I walked at least a half a mile on the dunes when suddenly I got breathless from the sight in front of me, the Temple of Amun in Karnak almost buried in the sand.(I checked google after wake up) It was made from pure gold that was shining from the moon. I was just standing and I was totally blinded from the sight. The dream began to collapse, shortly after I decided to take a souvenir, I grabbed a golden cup from the ground and gripped it tight. I woke up and of course, the cup was gone, but for another minute I had the feeling that it was still in my hand.

      Please try it and report back of your results, okay.



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      10pm bedtime
      3AM WBTB
      530 AM wake up
      2 LD WILD

      Laying on my back. Saying a Mantra (calm down, look around, engage, announce, recall) I hear voices, I hear Carmelite's voice calling my name. I hear cats fighting. I feel the shudder and hear the reverberation of giant angel wings passing over me. That's the sign of the wild passing fully into the dreamland.

      I wait a moment then get up, I'm in my room and all of the color is washed out. Everything is a light grey. I walk out of the room after a nose pinch. I want to go outside and can't find the door, only a window. I punch the window, the window is made of plastic and it cracks. For a second i'm fearful that i'm awake and jsut broke my window. I do another nose pinch and I'm reminded that i'm dreaming.

      Now I'm outside my house and i start floating up into the sky. in teh distance i see a downtown city scape, large buildings. I see the biggest building witih the most lit windows, yellow light, and i want to go there. I make a "come here" gesture with my hands and now i'm flying faster toward the buildings but they aren't getting any closer. I imagine being closer to the building and now i'm right in front of them.

      I see in the window, it's a hospital. Women are walking around in old school nurses uniforms. I'm inside and i see they are in a room with filining cabinets. I'm looking at these older women and one is younger and attractive. I pull her to me and start kissing, she pushes me away and says, "no"

      I say, "ok, do you want to talk" she says nothing and walks away with a disgusted look on her face. lieave the room I pass through a waiting room with a large bookshelf. I see two women on the couch and i take one by the hand over to the doorway and we start making out and having sex.

      i wake up, stay in my body and go back into the dream.

      I'm in the same place, and i go to the book shelf and grab a book i remmeber to ask a question "what is my new name" not sure of what is my question, and my voice starts choking up as i say it. then i open the book and see the strange symbol of the two ms.

      Then i go outside, i'm in a car in traffic, i'm trying to figure out a way out of the traffic and wake up.
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      Woke up at 3am
      Wide awake

      Wild into a floating consciousness,
      Green landscape with white lines, like tron
      I feel like i can move, and i push my “soul” into the landscape and now i’m inside the digital world.
      I Pull myself back into the void because I don’t have a body.
      Now i’m in a dormatory in a hallway, I take a look at a bookshelf. There’s an unfamiliar soft cover DND manuel with a lavendar cover, I open the book and se something about a “spell potion”
      I walk to one of the rooms and there are two ladies sititng on a bed, They are large brown and Hairy. One of them asks me to sit down, i do and she’s kissing me, scratchy face and she’s biting me, and it’s hurting a little and I want to get away.
      Fade into the void.
      Back in the hallway
      I find a room with mood lighting, three guys standing and sitting around. I ask them to go get girls and i look back in the room after a second and the guys are gone but now there are beautiful women. I charge in and start humping one of the women, and our bodies meld, i fee a sharp feeling of pleasure. It’s building and before i climax, i wake up.
      I sit in the void for a second remembering and then decide to wake up rather than go back in so i can write down some better detail in my space
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