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    Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

    1. #1726
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      Hello, making an effort at lucid dreaming again and I've made a WILD attempt this morning after re-reading Sageous' material.

      For about a month I've been doing general awareness / Am I dreaming checks, my dream recall has gotten quite decent, and lately I've been incorporating the RRC and really thinking about my influence on the world and the worlds influence on me.

      But anyways, I'm going to attempt a few serious tries at this and try to gather as much information as possible to debug where I've gone wrong and try to narrow down the issues.

      General Facts
      Bed time - 12:30 AM
      Wake time - 9:10 AM

      Attempt time - 9:20 AM
      Attempt length - 40 minutes
      Attempt position - Back

      Result - Not today

      The Dive
      I woke up around 9 AM ready to do an attempt, I had been reading through Sageous' class threads the night before and felt I was ready for the dive. I decided the night before on the mantra "Remain", I felt it was easy to recite and did a good job of encapsulating the intention of keeping my awareness around while my body proceeds into sleep as usual. I was tempted to use "Persist" as I'm a software developer by trade so I liked it for that reason but it didn't really roll of my mind's tongue as well as the former.

      So I got myself comfortable on my back, and it's worth noting that I typically don't sleep on my back at all, so it took a minute to get used to. After that I put on my sleep mask to block out any light, closed my eyes, and started out by just letting my body relax into the bed and let any impulse to move any muscles fade away.

      After relaxed, I focused on my breath- reciting "Remain" on each exhale. After 20 minutes or so- I felt myself relax even further, it felt like it got brighter behind my eyelids? Although I was wearing a sleep mask so I thought maybe this was the vibrations, it felt like my breathing was a lot more relaxed and some tension I was holding had gone away. As a result of these things I figured I was advancing in the WILD and couldn't help but get a bit excited but I quickly realized this wasn't a good thing for the attempt so I went back to focusing on the breath, reciting the mantra. It worked and I seemed to be just as relaxed as that moment and my breathing was less tense and felt effortless.

      After about 10 more minutes I find that constantly repeating the mantra seems that it may be keeping me too awake, I decide it would make more sense to let my mind drift on whatever thoughts arise, and when I found myself lost in thought, to reel myself back by reciting the mantra at that point. Although there were times where I didn't have many thoughts to get lost in so I would end up in a sort of meditative like blank mind canvas state. I figured to combat this I would go over my past dreams, which worked fine for a bit but I felt I would always return to that blank space and even check up on how relaxed I felt (which doesn't seem like a good idea to focus on the physical body). So it seemed I need a thought that would be constant and occupy me- So I imagined climbing a dream ladder endlessly, I focused on this for about 5 minutes.

      After that I felt myself thinking about just getting up, gave it about 5 more minutes and got up.

      Potential Issues (likeliest issues stated first)
      -Attempt made way too late after initial sleep (8-9 hours)
      ---Body too well rested?
      ---No REM cycle available

      -Sleeping position- maybe I should try my side next time

      -Focused too much on repeating mantra, the drift and reel technique I employed seemed promising for finding balance
      -Need to have dreamy thoughts and visualizations prepared perhaps?

      -Was trying to overthink everything and come up with solutions in real time (perhaps this kept me awake)

      -Killed my chance when I got excited by the noise?
      Last edited by EmptyBucket; 06-08-2019 at 05:03 PM.
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    2. #1727
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      That seemed a good effort, with one glaring (and perhaps surprising, to you) problem among a couple of small tweaks that could be made:

      First, the big one:

      Quote Originally Posted by EmptyBucket View Post
      After about 10 more minutes I find that constantly repeating the mantra seems that it may be keeping me too awake, I decide it would make more sense to let my mind drift on whatever thoughts arise, and when I found myself lost in thought, to reel myself back by reciting the mantra at that point. Although there were times where I didn't have many thoughts to get lost in so I would end up in a sort of meditative like blank mind canvas state. I figured to combat this I would go over my past dreams, which worked fine for a bit but I felt I would always return to that blank space and even check up on how relaxed I felt (which doesn't seem like a good idea to focus on the physical body).
      I think you might be working mightily against yourself here.

      That "meditative like blank mind canvas state" you sought to avoid is, to me, exactly where you want to be to succeed with WILD. What better slate on which to draw a dream than a blank one? That state is almost a fantasy to me, BTW, because my mind is endlessly producing new, distracting, trains of thought, and ignoring or at least redirecting those trains is a long term issue with me... so yeah, I'm a bit jealous that you have a natural talent that I do not, but aside from that I highly recommend that you embrace that talent rather than fight it with weapons that will surely prevent your WILD transition.

      Though it does sound good on paper (as it were), your "reeling yourself back in" technique is sort of like an alcoholic saying "I'll just have a sip or two, and when I start getting drunk I'll stop drinking and be sober again." Allowing yourself to follow your random thoughts -- making them matter, even if you tell yourself they do not -- is a very good way to avoid lucidity. Yes, allowing those thoughts might be a better way to fall asleep, but there is a reason for that, and part of that reason is that they provide a sort of mental salve to dull your mind as your body settles into sleep; dulling your mind, unfortunately, is the last thing you want to do during a WILD dive. Yes, waiting for your body to fall asleep is probably the most difficult aspect of WILD, because you must literally stay awake and fall asleep at the same time. Making it easier to fall asleep by letting your mind fall asleep too is sort of anathema to the process, I think!

      In the end, it is better to let those random thoughts flow right by you, just as you would during meditation, and see that blank mind slate as a goal or an asset, and not a problem.

      So it seemed I need a thought that would be constant and occupy me- So I imagined climbing a dream ladder endlessly, I focused on this for about 5 minutes.
      After that I felt myself thinking about just getting up, gave it about 5 more minutes and got up.
      That was probably a good idea, but probably a little too late; you likely were pretty much done with your sleep cycle at that point, so fighting to get back to sleep while also staying aware would have been pretty difficult. As an aside: you did make an interesting choice here, given that such a technique is meant to help you avoid thoughts and develop that blank slate; maybe you were trying to tell yourself something?

      Okay, that was the big one, here are some responses to your actual questions:


      -Attempt made way too late after initial sleep (8-9 hours)
      Probably.

      The reason I recommend a WBTB after about 5 hours' sleep is because you are both going back to sleep when REM periods are easily caught and your body is still interested in getting back to sleep so you can complete your sleep cycle. If you do your WBTB well, you are doing your walking about while your body is still in its sleep cycle/thinks it is asleep; after 9 hrs sleep it gets a bit harder to convince your body that it isn't time to wake up yet.

      -Sleeping position- maybe I should try my side next time
      That's not a bad idea, but keep in mind that the point of lying on your back is to make falling asleep a bit more difficult. In this difficulty lies the magic of WILD: You are basically waiting out your body as it falls asleep, and you should be trying to avoid the things that make falling asleep easier so that your mind doesn't get too comfortable and allows itself to join your body in sleep.

      -Focused too much on repeating mantra, the drift and reel technique I employed seemed promising for finding balance
      It is possible to focus too much on your mantra, making it the goal of your efforts rather than a LD. From what you described, though, it seemed to me that your mantra was working just fine as a tool to maintain focus, and never became the object of your focus.

      -Need to have dreamy thoughts and visualizations prepared perhaps?
      Sure, why not? Dreamy thoughts or well-set intention are always a good thing. Visualization is a good thing, if you can manage it, especially later in the dive, as you ride the fence between wake and sleep.

      -Was trying to overthink everything and come up with solutions in real time (perhaps this kept me awake)
      Probably. WILD works best when your mind is calm and processes are simple. Questioning yourself, changing up techniques midstream, or thinking about the process at all during the process, is never a good idea, because it will help keep your body awake and also may lead you to unconsciously intellectualize about the paradox of staying awake while you fall asleep

      -Killed my chance when I got excited by the noise?
      Probably not, as you seem to have handled its arrival well.
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    3. #1728
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      This is probably not going to help but well, every time I try to WILD, I set my alarm, wake up and the second I lie down to attempt I just get extremely uncomfortable, no itching or dry mouths, simply general uncomfortability, whatever position I lie in its all the same. If any of you have had the same issue and managed to solve it, I do would happy to know how :p (thanks in advantage)

    4. #1729
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      ^^ I'm not sure if this will help, but you might consider not using an alarm.

      Alarms by their nature tend to, well, alarm you, and that sudden awakening may have caused your body to become fully awake. Once fully awake, your body sees its sleep cycle as ended and may not be interested in going back to sleep (hence the discomfort). If you can manage to do your WBTB after a natural awakening, you might find yourself more comfortable after lying down.

      Also, you didn't mention the length of your WBTB, and what you were doing during it, but you might want to make it a bit longer, and keep your thoughts as calm and dreamy as possible. That sounds counter-intuitive, I know, but sometimes a longer WBTB can give you time to gather your lucid -- and sleepy -- state of mind, and going back to bed can be a more natural event.

      Again, I'm not sure if I'm even close with this one, but it's what I got...

    5. #1730
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      Today I tried 3 times to have a WILD. In the first 2 I fall asleep while repeating my mantra, on third one I make affirmation that I'm wilding and passively focus on my vision. I start to repeat the mantra and after several minutes dream images have started to appear, and after another two minutes they become 3d like, but for some reason I couldn't get in the dream. I thought maybe I must stop repeating the mantra and suddenly felt a pull in sensation, which transported me in the dream scene. Immediately started to stabilize the dream by rubbing my hands and touching nearby objects, the touch sensation of the objects was very accurate to my surprise. Just start to walk around and dream fall apart, end up in the void. I try again from there but felt a muscle tension across my body and wake up.

      So what happened, why fell apart? Did I try to touch to many things at the same time? Perhaps I had to stay in one place for a longer time, before move on or maybe because I got a little excited.

      One more thing I notice, is that before I have been trying to induce hypnagogia images or wait for them to occur(focus on my physical eyes and lids), but in my history I rarely get hypnagogia(colors and shapes) instead I have always getting full dream images/scenes, so it seems reading a tutorials over internet about waiting hypnagogia to occur and ride it to dream world was a mistake on my part.

      One more question did you repeat your mantra to the moment you enter the dream or you stop sometime before that?
      Last edited by StarSeeker; 07-27-2019 at 03:05 PM.

    6. #1731
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      ^^I have what may seem an odd guess at what happened here, but maybe it will help: Perhaps, on that third try, you were never in a dream at all.

      One of the bits of noise you might encounter while straddling the fence between wake and sleep is a Dreamlet. Dreamlets aren't really dreams; they are brief flashes of imagery that aren't sourced in your dreaming mind's production facilities, but from somewhere else -- perhaps as simple perceptual backwash meant to fill the void during your transition; to give you something to look at. That sounded better in my head, but suffice it to say that dreamlets, though certainly dream-like in appearance, aren't really dreams, and can be gone as quickly as they appear.

      This is why it is a good idea to maintain your mantra, and focus, for a few moments after dream imagery first appears. That way, if you are in a dreamlet, you'll be poised to continue your WILD transition after the dreamlet passes. It is possible, with experience, to work the dreamlet imagery into a full-blown dream, but I suggest you worry about that later (to do so you would basically focus on a piece of the imagery and use it to form a desired dream by making it sort of a guide for your dreaming mind when it finally gets to work).

      So: What could have happened here is that you encountered a dreamlet, thought you were dreaming, and stepped away from your WILD to enjoy it; when the dreamlet passed, so did your WILD.

      Next time, I suggest that you simply assume you're witnessing a dreamlet, and, rather than allow yourself to be pulled into it, just calmly let it pass (I'm guessing your interest in the imagery did the pulling, and not some external force, BTW). If it doesn't pass, and continues to form into a full-blown dream, that's great; you will still have completed your WILD transition. If it is a dreamlet it does pass and you find yourself back in nothing, you should still, thanks to remaining calm and focused, be able to continue your transition without feeling a need to wake up.

      Also:
      Quote Originally Posted by StarSeeker View Post
      One more thing I notice, is that before I have been trying to induce hypnagogia images or wait for them to occur(focus on my physical eyes and lids), but in my history I rarely get hypnagogia(colors and shapes) instead I have always getting full dream images/scenes, so it seems reading a tutorials over internet about waiting hypnagogia to occur and ride it to dream world was a mistake on my part.
      This is what made me think of the dreamlets, because it seems you are prone to have them.

      I'm not sure why you would want to induce hypnagogia, and suggest you avoid doing so, because all that would amount to is a distraction from your WILD; so yeah, could be a mistake: Sure, if you regularly experience hypnagogia, you can consider it a passing signpost or use it to form your dreams, but don't try to force it upon yourself... not that you need to, because it looks like you can use dreamlets in the same manner, and they come to you readily.

      One more question did you repeat your mantra to the moment you enter the dream or you stop sometime before that?
      I suggest repeating it until you are fully confident that you are in a dream; try not to stop before the dream starts because, well, you really don't know when the dream will start, right?
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    7. #1732
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      ^^I have what may seem an odd guess at what happened here, but maybe it will help: Perhaps, on that third try, you were never in a dream at all.
      ^^' It was deffintely a full blown 3D dream, I was in a living room, there was a tv on the left, couch+table in front of me and a big window(it was night) It was very solid and textures of the wall,couch and the table were very detailed.Maybe fell apart because of combination of move too soon and touch too many things. Next time I will rub my hands more time before move on, but thanks anyway for the expansive insight.

      That you call dreamlets, I call dream images. They move from B&W distorted images to colorful fleeting images to life like scenery images. So from here on I'm gonna use these dreamlets as entry point to the actual dream, I just need to work on the type of the entry. Frankly this wasn't my first WILD, only first induced with method, the others were more spontaneous from naps(like 30-40). Have some VILDs too(like 10), they are more bizzare in nature. I have 3 types of them:

      1)If I see a dream object I can try to grab it with my invisible hands^^'. Last time grabbed a bottle of wine and suddenly found myself in a kitchen(maybe it works based on associations)

      2)I move like a ghost in the void and can see walking people from above and enter in their heads, and have a real dream body.

      3)I call them walking dreams. I imagine a simple dream scene and start walking, if I stop walking the dream fall apart. I can fly or drive a car in these, but the dream logic is not very stable. Doors are very special in this type of VILD, they always lead me to a different places.

      I'm guessing your interest in the imagery did the pulling, and not some external force, BTW.
      lol I don't had any interest in that moment, but I was wondering why I was outside the frame and couldn't enter the already formed dream scene.(It's like there was a glass wall between me and scenery) So when stop chanting my mantra, something like external force pull me in.

      Also:
      This is what made me think of the dreamlets, because it seems you are prone to have them.
      Mayble because I'm really good at daydreaming, I daydream all the time^^
      I'm not sure why you would want to induce hypnagogia, and suggest you avoid doing so, because all that would amount to is a distraction from your WILD; so yeah, could be a mistake: Sure, if you regularly experience hypnagogia, you can consider it a passing signpost or use it to form your dreams, but don't try to force it upon yourself... not that you need to, because it looks like you can use dreamlets in the same manner, and they come to you readily.
      Yeah it seems I was one step ahead of hypnagogia, so what I tried to do was two step back and one foward XD. The only hypnagogia I ever was able to induce was a tunnel of flashing light, like I was passing through a portal of wormhole.

    8. #1733
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      ^^ Okay then. I gave it a shot, based on what you gave me in your post; sorry I missed!

      One quick thing to consider: the imagery of dreamlets can be every bit as "real" as actual dreams; it is their length and source that makes them dreamlets, and not their quality.

      Otherwise, you seem to already have plenty of expertise and experience; I'm not sure why you asked me a question at all

      Good luck in your next dive!
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    9. #1734
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      ^^ Okay then. I gave it a shot, based on what you gave me in your post; sorry I missed!
      No problem, at least you point me for what to watch out during transition and where I can go wrong^^
      One quick thing to consider: the imagery of dreamlets can be every bit as "real" as actual dreams; it is their length and source that makes them dreamlets, and not their quality.
      The way you are explaining it, it sounds like I strike a short Rem episode, my Rem timing is a mess.
      Otherwise, you seem to already have plenty of expertise and experience; I'm not sure why you asked me a question at all
      One can say that I'm not very confident in my own skills, so I always need a little push to get going.
      Good luck in your next dive!
      Sure thing
      Now that I finaly catch the right TV channel, I only need to fine tune it, if you know what I mean
      Everything combined and if I can muster myself to start RC during the day, maybe I will be able to inrease my monthly average from 14 to at least 30(fingers crossed)

      p.s. After todays WILD I started to have some freaky auditory halucination while awake, even now while typing this in quiet room I hear a music in the background, it's very creepy :X

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