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    Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

    1. #1726
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      Hello, making an effort at lucid dreaming again and I've made a WILD attempt this morning after re-reading Sageous' material.

      For about a month I've been doing general awareness / Am I dreaming checks, my dream recall has gotten quite decent, and lately I've been incorporating the RRC and really thinking about my influence on the world and the worlds influence on me.

      But anyways, I'm going to attempt a few serious tries at this and try to gather as much information as possible to debug where I've gone wrong and try to narrow down the issues.

      General Facts
      Bed time - 12:30 AM
      Wake time - 9:10 AM

      Attempt time - 9:20 AM
      Attempt length - 40 minutes
      Attempt position - Back

      Result - Not today

      The Dive
      I woke up around 9 AM ready to do an attempt, I had been reading through Sageous' class threads the night before and felt I was ready for the dive. I decided the night before on the mantra "Remain", I felt it was easy to recite and did a good job of encapsulating the intention of keeping my awareness around while my body proceeds into sleep as usual. I was tempted to use "Persist" as I'm a software developer by trade so I liked it for that reason but it didn't really roll of my mind's tongue as well as the former.

      So I got myself comfortable on my back, and it's worth noting that I typically don't sleep on my back at all, so it took a minute to get used to. After that I put on my sleep mask to block out any light, closed my eyes, and started out by just letting my body relax into the bed and let any impulse to move any muscles fade away.

      After relaxed, I focused on my breath- reciting "Remain" on each exhale. After 20 minutes or so- I felt myself relax even further, it felt like it got brighter behind my eyelids? Although I was wearing a sleep mask so I thought maybe this was the vibrations, it felt like my breathing was a lot more relaxed and some tension I was holding had gone away. As a result of these things I figured I was advancing in the WILD and couldn't help but get a bit excited but I quickly realized this wasn't a good thing for the attempt so I went back to focusing on the breath, reciting the mantra. It worked and I seemed to be just as relaxed as that moment and my breathing was less tense and felt effortless.

      After about 10 more minutes I find that constantly repeating the mantra seems that it may be keeping me too awake, I decide it would make more sense to let my mind drift on whatever thoughts arise, and when I found myself lost in thought, to reel myself back by reciting the mantra at that point. Although there were times where I didn't have many thoughts to get lost in so I would end up in a sort of meditative like blank mind canvas state. I figured to combat this I would go over my past dreams, which worked fine for a bit but I felt I would always return to that blank space and even check up on how relaxed I felt (which doesn't seem like a good idea to focus on the physical body). So it seemed I need a thought that would be constant and occupy me- So I imagined climbing a dream ladder endlessly, I focused on this for about 5 minutes.

      After that I felt myself thinking about just getting up, gave it about 5 more minutes and got up.

      Potential Issues (likeliest issues stated first)
      -Attempt made way too late after initial sleep (8-9 hours)
      ---Body too well rested?
      ---No REM cycle available

      -Sleeping position- maybe I should try my side next time

      -Focused too much on repeating mantra, the drift and reel technique I employed seemed promising for finding balance
      -Need to have dreamy thoughts and visualizations prepared perhaps?

      -Was trying to overthink everything and come up with solutions in real time (perhaps this kept me awake)

      -Killed my chance when I got excited by the noise?
      Last edited by EmptyBucket; 06-08-2019 at 05:03 PM.
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    2. #1727
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      That seemed a good effort, with one glaring (and perhaps surprising, to you) problem among a couple of small tweaks that could be made:

      First, the big one:

      Quote Originally Posted by EmptyBucket View Post
      After about 10 more minutes I find that constantly repeating the mantra seems that it may be keeping me too awake, I decide it would make more sense to let my mind drift on whatever thoughts arise, and when I found myself lost in thought, to reel myself back by reciting the mantra at that point. Although there were times where I didn't have many thoughts to get lost in so I would end up in a sort of meditative like blank mind canvas state. I figured to combat this I would go over my past dreams, which worked fine for a bit but I felt I would always return to that blank space and even check up on how relaxed I felt (which doesn't seem like a good idea to focus on the physical body).
      I think you might be working mightily against yourself here.

      That "meditative like blank mind canvas state" you sought to avoid is, to me, exactly where you want to be to succeed with WILD. What better slate on which to draw a dream than a blank one? That state is almost a fantasy to me, BTW, because my mind is endlessly producing new, distracting, trains of thought, and ignoring or at least redirecting those trains is a long term issue with me... so yeah, I'm a bit jealous that you have a natural talent that I do not, but aside from that I highly recommend that you embrace that talent rather than fight it with weapons that will surely prevent your WILD transition.

      Though it does sound good on paper (as it were), your "reeling yourself back in" technique is sort of like an alcoholic saying "I'll just have a sip or two, and when I start getting drunk I'll stop drinking and be sober again." Allowing yourself to follow your random thoughts -- making them matter, even if you tell yourself they do not -- is a very good way to avoid lucidity. Yes, allowing those thoughts might be a better way to fall asleep, but there is a reason for that, and part of that reason is that they provide a sort of mental salve to dull your mind as your body settles into sleep; dulling your mind, unfortunately, is the last thing you want to do during a WILD dive. Yes, waiting for your body to fall asleep is probably the most difficult aspect of WILD, because you must literally stay awake and fall asleep at the same time. Making it easier to fall asleep by letting your mind fall asleep too is sort of anathema to the process, I think!

      In the end, it is better to let those random thoughts flow right by you, just as you would during meditation, and see that blank mind slate as a goal or an asset, and not a problem.

      So it seemed I need a thought that would be constant and occupy me- So I imagined climbing a dream ladder endlessly, I focused on this for about 5 minutes.
      After that I felt myself thinking about just getting up, gave it about 5 more minutes and got up.
      That was probably a good idea, but probably a little too late; you likely were pretty much done with your sleep cycle at that point, so fighting to get back to sleep while also staying aware would have been pretty difficult. As an aside: you did make an interesting choice here, given that such a technique is meant to help you avoid thoughts and develop that blank slate; maybe you were trying to tell yourself something?

      Okay, that was the big one, here are some responses to your actual questions:


      -Attempt made way too late after initial sleep (8-9 hours)
      Probably.

      The reason I recommend a WBTB after about 5 hours' sleep is because you are both going back to sleep when REM periods are easily caught and your body is still interested in getting back to sleep so you can complete your sleep cycle. If you do your WBTB well, you are doing your walking about while your body is still in its sleep cycle/thinks it is asleep; after 9 hrs sleep it gets a bit harder to convince your body that it isn't time to wake up yet.

      -Sleeping position- maybe I should try my side next time
      That's not a bad idea, but keep in mind that the point of lying on your back is to make falling asleep a bit more difficult. In this difficulty lies the magic of WILD: You are basically waiting out your body as it falls asleep, and you should be trying to avoid the things that make falling asleep easier so that your mind doesn't get too comfortable and allows itself to join your body in sleep.

      -Focused too much on repeating mantra, the drift and reel technique I employed seemed promising for finding balance
      It is possible to focus too much on your mantra, making it the goal of your efforts rather than a LD. From what you described, though, it seemed to me that your mantra was working just fine as a tool to maintain focus, and never became the object of your focus.

      -Need to have dreamy thoughts and visualizations prepared perhaps?
      Sure, why not? Dreamy thoughts or well-set intention are always a good thing. Visualization is a good thing, if you can manage it, especially later in the dive, as you ride the fence between wake and sleep.

      -Was trying to overthink everything and come up with solutions in real time (perhaps this kept me awake)
      Probably. WILD works best when your mind is calm and processes are simple. Questioning yourself, changing up techniques midstream, or thinking about the process at all during the process, is never a good idea, because it will help keep your body awake and also may lead you to unconsciously intellectualize about the paradox of staying awake while you fall asleep

      -Killed my chance when I got excited by the noise?
      Probably not, as you seem to have handled its arrival well.
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    3. #1728
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      This is probably not going to help but well, every time I try to WILD, I set my alarm, wake up and the second I lie down to attempt I just get extremely uncomfortable, no itching or dry mouths, simply general uncomfortability, whatever position I lie in its all the same. If any of you have had the same issue and managed to solve it, I do would happy to know how :p (thanks in advantage)

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