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    Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

    1. #1776
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      All in all a pretty good attempt, Lifeinsteps; thanks for sharing!
      Thanks for reading, and for the advice! I re-read some of your classes again (particularly dream formation, but also the first one on the RRCs and such) yesterday morning, and gave it another try last night while trying to incorporate everything you mentioned. The full dream journal is here, but here are the relevant bits:

      Spoiler for WILD details:


      I think partially what is wrong is this: I just don't sleep on my back-- and if I laid there doing nothing trying to sleep for an hour I probably wouldn't succeed right now. But I fall asleep so quickly in other positions I'm not sure I should change it. I think as I keep making attempts, the process itself (the WILD attempt) will once again become un-foreign to me (causing greater comfort with everything, and less distraction), and I'll also become more comfortable lying on my back, both of which will contribute to an eventual success! I definitely felt closer to the cusp of success (closer to sleep and not totally awake, just lying there) multiple times during this attempt than yesterday.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Oh, and in closing I always like to mention that if your WILD attempt fails but results in a DILD, then did the attempt really fail? After all, lucidity is lucidity, no matter how you get there!
      I totally agree, and thanks for the reminder. Of course a lucid dream is a lucid dream; I guess I particularly am invested in getting the WILD working frequently for me because I simply enjoy the process of falling asleep while conscious. I do want to make sure I'm not distracted by the noise as per your course writings, however I have to say the first time (and 2nd, 3rd) I got a WILD years ago, the experience of being lifted from my bed and hurled/spun through the air was so incredibly fun(!) to experience that it made me just want to WILD more. I had found it wasn't a distraction for me because I enjoyed it so much that I was eager to let it happen when it began, and catch the ride again into the dream, haha.

      I just have to be careful of the HI because it does distract me, and at this current point in time, often to the detriment of the WILD. Maybe as I get more comfortable with it, I'll be able to just quietly notice it without focusing on it and waking myself up.
      Last edited by lifeinsteps; 06-30-2020 at 05:46 PM.
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    2. #1777
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      I thought I would share my experience of a successful DEILD I had last night.

      I have been attempting WBTB WILD every night for the last 10 days or so and tonight was my first success. I still have yet to experience a true WILD, but my attempt did lead to a DILD and a DEILD!

      My WBTB attempt was nothing special so I don't want to give it to much focus here, but I am hoping that experiencing a successful DEILD transition will help me WILD in the future!

      As a note this all happened during my last sleep cycle after 8ish hours of sleep. At the end of my DILD as I felt myself waking up I remembered to hold still and try and fall back asleep. I am very curious about the state I found myself in as I was waking up, I think that if I can replicate it during a WILD I will be able to transition! I was quite lucid since I had just come out of a lucid dream, compared to the low lucidity I have just rolling over throughout the night in between sleep cycles. As I focused on holding still I felt almost like I was being pulled back into a dream, it felt like my body was falling. Rather than fight this feeling I just went total limp bone, like if I had been standing I would have just collapsed into a puddle on the floor, and I felt myself falling. I could see this dream "bubble" beneath me that I was still on the outside of but sinking into. As I went through the barrier to this bubble I was surrounded by intense white light and felt very peaceful. During this whole process, starting immediately after I decided to just go limp and fall, I would say that I had zero sensation of my waking body at all, then once I was in the dream my dream body felt just like my real body.

      It is this point that I hope to reach in my WILD attempts. I think I am way to curious about what I am experiencing as I try to fall asleep, focusing on my real body. But every successful dream transition I have had involves me having zero sensation of my real body. I have not found how to get to this place of sleep during a WILD transition.

      On another note I was re-reading this thread in preparation of making this post and came across this quote from sageous that I thought was very curious. Basically in the lucid dream I was asking how I could get lucid more frequently and was told that "I needed to develop a lucid mindset". Now keep in mind I was told that before reading this quote from sageous today, I'm sure I've heard him say something similar before, but it really caught my attention today.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      If you're not clear on what I'm calling a lucid mindset, basically it is a gathering of the fundamentals -- self-awareness, memory, and expectation/intention -- under an umbrella of knowing that you can and will be lucid next time you dream. Not so basically, and something that needs much time to learn, a lucid mindset is ultimately a firmly established non-dual perspective, a perspective in which you know that everything in a dream is You, that there is no dream to go to; only a new thing to think of.
      I am curious to know more about having a firmly established non-dual perspective, both in waking life and in dreams. I want to develop a "lucid mindset" to have more frequent lucid dreams!

      Also, perhaps this is not the place for it sageous, but what are your thoughts on dream guides? I don't think I've ever seen you post about things like dream guides, persistent dream characters, ect...
      Last edited by Sangfoot; 07-30-2020 at 11:11 PM.

    3. #1778
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      ^^ Nice work, Sangfoot!

      Before I get into details, keep in mind that DEILD is WILD, being that both are a transition from wake-to-sleep-to-dream without losing waking-life self-awareness. So if you successfully DEILD, then you successfully WILD! And, if you can regularly successfully DILD, so you have a dream from which to exit, you might never need to do a "classic" WILD at all... after all, isn't becoming lucid the target, and not how you got there? But, of course, I assume that you wish to perfect your classic WILD skills, so let's move on:

      Quote Originally Posted by Sangfoot View Post
      At the end of my DILD as I felt myself waking up I remembered to hold still and try and fall back asleep. I am very curious about the state I found myself in as I was waking up, I think that if I can replicate it during a WILD I will be able to transition! I was quite lucid since I had just come out of a lucid dream, compared to the low lucidity I have just rolling over throughout the night in between sleep cycles. As I focused on holding still I felt almost like I was being pulled back into a dream, it felt like my body was falling. Rather than fight this feeling I just went total limp bone, like if I had been standing I would have just collapsed into a puddle on the floor, and I felt myself falling. I could see this dream "bubble" beneath me that I was still on the outside of but sinking into. As I went through the barrier to this bubble I was surrounded by intense white light and felt very peaceful. During this whole process, starting immediately after I decided to just go limp and fall, I would say that I had zero sensation of my waking body at all, then once I was in the dream my dream body felt just like my real body.

      It is this point that I hope to reach in my WILD attempts. I think I am way to curious about what I am experiencing as I try to fall asleep, focusing on my real body. But every successful dream transition I have had involves me having zero sensation of my real body. I have not found how to get to this place of sleep during a WILD transition.
      A couple of things here:

      * I'm not sure you can replicate the DEILD state into your WILD, simply because a DEILD is driven by two things that just aren't on hand during a classic WILD attempt: 1), you are exiting a LD, so you are already and literally in a lucid dreaming state of mind at the moment of your transition, a state that you can only (and should) anticipate during WILD, simply because the dream doesn't come until after you complete your WILD transition. 2), By its nature, you are basically still mostly asleep when you do a DEILD, so you are effectively past that moment of WILD transition when you finally can stop balancing on the fence between wake and sleep and can fall asleep and enter your dream; with classic WILD, you will still need to reach that moment, which will involve all the stuff you don't have to deal with in DEILD.

      * Instead of focusing on going back to sleep, I would suggest that you focus on returning to your dream and assume, or rather know, that you will be back to sleep in a few seconds. By concentrating on sleep instead of dream, you wound up going through a few unnecessary noise-like steps while your dreaming mind struggled to reset and get you back into a dream; had you just imagined yourself back in the dream you just left, confident that your body will take care of getting you back to sleep on its own, you probably would have found yourself immediately back in the dream you just exited, with you and your dreaming mind ready for new exploration. Now, I know all that "limp bone, falling, bright light, etc." stuff is pretty cool and all, but -- especially after a full night's sleep -- there was just as good a chance that, without the "instruction" of an active dream present, your body may have refused to relax and continued the wake-up process, leaving you wide awake and LD-free.

      [ASIDE: As I finished writing that second note, I got to thinking, "Hmm.. Sangfoot did exit a DILD, but he wasn't remembering the dream itself when he awoke, and he went through a specific relaxation technique to get back to sleep, and there was all that noise (falling, bright lights, bubbles, etc.) ... I wonder if he actually did complete a classic WILD transition, and not a DEILD at all?" Perhaps just to justify all the stuff I just wrote, I'm going to assume that you did do a DEILD, Sangfoot, but I thought it a good idea to share that thought, just in case you wanted to chalk this up as a WILD!]


      Also, perhaps this is not the place for it sageous, but what are your thoughts on dream guides? I don't think I've ever seen you post about things like dream guides, persistent dream characters, ect...
      Yes, I don't tend to post about those things because I have little interest in them. I never saw a need for dream guides; inventing a DC who will tell you things you already know or, worse, inventing a DC who will tell you exactly what you want to hear, seems to me an unnecessary -- and a bit too waking-life focused -- effort. After all, it's your dream, why would you want a DC tell you how to interpret or create your dreaming experience, when you can do that better yourself? I suppose dream guides are useful for folks who have misgivings about their own abilities, so they may be useful to them, but even then they might become a crutch that prevents them from overcoming those misgivings.

      Then there are those who contend that dream guides are living, independent beings from somewhere else, who actually are guiding them. Now that would be pretty cool! Unfortunately for me, in my forty-odd years of often intense lucid exploration, including some time spent looking and deeply wishing for one, I have never encountered a DC I could confidently call that sort of dream guide. Many came close, I will admit, but none repeatedly arrived from elsewhere into my dreams to offer sage assistance, assistance I would have totally welcomed! So, because of that, I've really nothing positive to add to conversations of dream guides.

      Regarding persistent DC's, or for that matter, persistent realms: Though over the years I have had many DC's who had no match to people I knew in waking-life who turned up many times in my dreams, sometimes in truly curious manners, and I do have a couple of dream scenarios that regularly recur when I'm lucid, I guess I've never had much interest in actually creating and maintaining persistent subjects -- novelty trumps familiarity for me every time!
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    4. #1779
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      * Instead of focusing on going back to sleep, I would suggest that you focus on returning to your dream and assume, or rather know, that you will be back to sleep in a few seconds
      Unless is very nasty one

    5. #1780
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      Quote Originally Posted by michael79 View Post
      Unless is very nasty one
      Even then.

      Since, with DEILD, the dream from which you emerged was a lucid one, any nastiness that existed in it did so with either your own creation or approval -- plus you know you can leave it once you're back. Also, I'm guessing that, should a dream you were just in have been truly bad, you probably wouldn't be interested in doing a DEILD in the first place!

      [I know you were just kidding (at least I assume so), but you did raise a good point, so I figured it was worth adding a comment.]
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    6. #1781
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Even then.

      Since, with DEILD, the dream from which you emerged was a lucid one, any nastiness that existed in it did so with either your own creation or approval -- plus you know you can leave it once you're back. Also, I'm guessing that, should a dream you were just in have been truly bad, you probably wouldn't be interested in doing a DEILD in the first place!

      [I know you were just kidding (at least I assume so), but you did raise a good point, so I figured it was worth adding a comment.]
      Actually I wasn't joking at all. For exit from lucid dream things are easy, if you got the timings right, but I was talking about exit from non-lucid one, unless you don't have any nightmares. But your idea is good about focusing on the dream instead of focusing on falling asleep, when you can't fall asleep again.

      Edit: And one more thing, most of the times I didn't return to the same dream, I think returning to the same dream and becoming lucid is more of a MILD way.
      Last edited by michael79; 08-02-2020 at 01:39 AM.

    7. #1782
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      Finally was able to distinguish between real FA and dream in which I know from the beginning that I'm dreaming. FA have the potential to turn into a lucid dream "DILD", but FA is just a glitch in the matrix. While the second type is a Delayed WILD, which can be a result of Failed WILD or SSILD(it's interesting how ssild prepare the mind for a delayed WILD though).

    8. #1783
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      ^^ Hmm, we seem to have some confusion here, Michael...

      This thread is meant for students who take the DVA WILD class to which it is attached, so that they can post the results of their attempted WILD's (this replaces the traditional "notebooks" students usually post into with these courses). Since the class is pretty old now, I do welcome WILD attempts from dreamers who did not take the course (though in my responses I always try to recommend that they do so), but it really is meant to be focused on WILD's.

      Though I certainly appreciate your posts, their advanced nature and the fact that things like "delayed WILD's" or exiting NLD's for a DEILD are subjects that probably do not belong in an introductory WILD class, or a thread specifically documenting WILD attempts.

      For instance, it's difficult enough to help novices understand what a WILD transition is at all, but terms like a "delayed WILD" can be confusing indeed (it sure confused me, since I don't see how you can delay a transition that by definition requires you to maintain waking-life self-awareness throughout the journey to a lucid dream, so any delay might mean you lose that awareness, and the transition then would by its nature become a DILD); yes, DEILD'ing from a NLD is certainly possible, if you gain self-awareness after the dream and just before you wake up, but it is definitely not common or, as you say, "easy" as a "regular" DEILD as described in this class. Your references seem to carry the terms WILD and DILD a bit beyond their given definitions (WILD = transition from wake-to-sleep-to-dream without losing waking-life self-awareness; DILD = transition to lucid dream during a NLD), and though there is of course nothing wrong with that, they might find better homes elsewhere, or perhaps in their own threads.

      I hope you understand my concerns, that you understand that this note is by no means a dismissal of your experiences or ideas, and that you are willing to work with me here. Also, I do hope you might start a thread on "delayed WILD's," as the idea is intriguing to me!

      Last edited by Sageous; 08-03-2020 at 12:19 AM.

    9. #1784
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      ^^OK fair enough I will try not to post anything that go beyond this thread purpose.

      P.s. on the other things
      DWILD differ from normal DILD by the onset of awareness, in the first the moment you open your eyes in the dream you know you are dreaming(you can consider them as natural WILD), in the second you gain awareness slower and have "Am I dreaming" moment through the dream.

      I'm not talking about DEILD from NLD, I'm talking about waking up from NLD, but remember to not move or open eyes and execute a re-entry technique by own choice and this is not so easy by any means.
      Last edited by michael79; 08-03-2020 at 02:27 AM.
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    10. #1785
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Before I get into details, keep in mind that DEILD is WILD, being that both are a transition from wake-to-sleep-to-dream without losing waking-life self-awareness. So if you successfully DEILD, then you successfully WILD!
      YES I'll take it!

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      * I'm not sure you can replicate the DEILD state into your WILD, simply because a DEILD is driven by two things that just aren't on hand during a classic WILD attempt: 1), you are exiting a LD, so you are already and literally in a lucid dreaming state of mind at the moment of your transition, a state that you can only (and should) anticipate during WILD, simply because the dream doesn't come until after you complete your WILD transition. 2), By its nature, you are basically still mostly asleep when you do a DEILD, so you are effectively past that moment of WILD transition when you finally can stop balancing on the fence between wake and sleep and can fall asleep and enter your dream; with classic WILD, you will still need to reach that moment, which will involve all the stuff you don't have to deal with in DEILD.
      Hmm there are some new thoughts to me here. I have always thought that a WILD transition was completed when you ENTERED a dream, but here you are referencing them like two separate events. 1. transition 2. enter dream?

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      * Instead of focusing on going back to sleep, I would suggest that you focus on returning to your dream and assume, or rather know, that you will be back to sleep in a few seconds. By concentrating on sleep instead of dream, you wound up going through a few unnecessary noise-like steps while your dreaming mind struggled to reset and get you back into a dream; had you just imagined yourself back in the dream you just left, confident that your body will take care of getting you back to sleep on its own, you probably would have found yourself immediately back in the dream you just exited, with you and your dreaming mind ready for new exploration. Now, I know all that "limp bone, falling, bright light, etc." stuff is pretty cool and all, but -- especially after a full night's sleep -- there was just as good a chance that, without the "instruction" of an active dream present, your body may have refused to relax and continued the wake-up process, leaving you wide awake and LD-free.
      Haha I KNOW that I have to much focus on my waking body, but even when trying not to focus on it I still do lol! Even when the dream is right in front of me to just focus on and return to I still try and make it difficult on myself focusing to much on my body. I think this will improve with more experience so I'm not to worried about it. I am already working on improving my lucid expectations and visualization. Looks like I need to add "ignore the noise" to my visualization also. Gosh, I keep getting fascinated with the noise! My learning is slow but more practice and experience is helping.


      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Yes, I don't tend to post about those things because I have little interest in them. I never saw a need for dream guides; inventing a DC who will tell you things you already know or, worse, inventing a DC who will tell you exactly what you want to hear, seems to me an unnecessary -- and a bit too waking-life focused -- effort. After all, it's your dream, why would you want a DC tell you how to interpret or create your dreaming experience, when you can do that better yourself? I suppose dream guides are useful for folks who have misgivings about their own abilities, so they may be useful to them, but even then they might become a crutch that prevents them from overcoming those misgivings.
      Ugh. This makes me feel co-dependent on my own sub conscious with my current DC expectations. It's like your saying to me that I need to practice self-awareness, of my dream goals. I'll spend some time pondering why I WANT a DC to tell me things, interpret things, and direct things for me. Crutch huh. (insert dagger straight to heart)

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Then there are those who contend that dream guides are living, independent beings from somewhere else, who actually are guiding them. Now that would be pretty cool! Unfortunately for me, in my forty-odd years of often intense lucid exploration, including some time spent looking and deeply wishing for one, I have never encountered a DC I could confidently call that sort of dream guide. Many came close, I will admit, but none repeatedly arrived from elsewhere into my dreams to offer sage assistance, assistance I would have totally welcomed! So, because of that, I've really nothing positive to add to conversations of dream guides.

      Regarding persistent DC's, or for that matter, persistent realms: Though over the years I have had many DC's who had no match to people I knew in waking-life who turned up many times in my dreams, sometimes in truly curious manners, and I do have a couple of dream scenarios that regularly recur when I'm lucid, I guess I've never had much interest in actually creating and maintaining persistent subjects -- novelty trumps familiarity for me every time!
      Wow thank you for sharing your experience. Even though this isn't what I wanted to hear, it FEELS right to me, and I really appreciate you sharing your experience on the subject. I am going to ponder on the assistance I have been hoping to gain from a dream guide, and see how I can do those things from my own initiative and action, to increase my lucid mindset.
      Last edited by Sangfoot; 08-05-2020 at 06:04 AM.

    11. #1786
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sangfoot View Post
      * I'm not sure you can replicate the DEILD state into your WILD, simply because a DEILD is driven by two things that just aren't on hand during a classic WILD attempt: 1), you are exiting a LD, so you are already and literally in a lucid dreaming state of mind at the moment of your transition, a state that you can only (and should) anticipate during WILD, simply because the dream doesn't come until after you complete your WILD transition. 2), By its nature, you are basically still mostly asleep when you do a DEILD, so you are effectively past that moment of a WILD transition when you finally can stop balancing on the fence between wake and sleep and can fall asleep and enter your dream; with classic WILD, you will still need to reach that moment, which will involve all the stuff you don't have to deal with in DEILD.
      Hmm there are some new thoughts to me here. I have always thought that a WILD transition was completed when you ENTERED a dream, but here you are referencing them like two separate events. 1. transition 2. enter dream?
      Sorry, I wasn't clear. It looks like all I had to do was include the letter "a" in just the right spot of the post to be clear (I fixed it, above, and bolded it); it's amazing what one little slip can do!

      Just in case: what I meant was that with DEILD you have already completed a transition to lucidity (because you are lucid), so you don't have to go through the stuff that comes with awaiting/making a WILD transition; since you're already lucid and in touch with the dream you exited, all you gotta do is let sleep resume. In other words, with DEILD you get to skip a (very busy) part of the WILD transition, and the WILD transition is certainly not complete until you are dreaming!

      So, no; a WILD is all one event, not two. Sorry again for leaving out that "a"!
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      My last wake initiated attempt left me in uncomfortable half awake trance for hours. On the brink of ld but not quite there. I've no doubt it works well for others also it wasn't technique I wanted to further pursue All my lucid dreams are dream initiated. After about two weeks keeping up on journal (slowly documenting more dreams per night) something happens.
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