The Dream Project

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Originally Posted by Origami

Interesting. I could try LaBerge's WBTB on a weekend, as I have to be in school an hour after I get up, so weekdays wouldn't work. Plus I already lie in too much so thats a bonus. I'll try it earnestly on saturday.

What about you Wristblade? How many have you had before?

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Great! But I wasn't completely honest.. His techniques is even more extreme than that. Although the way I described it works as good.

Here is the way he describes it, you won't believe your eyes:

1. Before going to bed, set your alarm to wake you up 2-3 hours earlier than usual, and go to sleep at your normal time.
2. When your alarm wakes you up, get out of bed immediatelly, you are going to stay up for 2-3 hours. Go about your business until about a half hour before returning to bed.
3. For the half hour before returning to sleep think about what you want to accomplish in your lucid dream; where you want to get, what you want to see, or what you want to do.
4. After two or three hours have passed since you awakened, make sure you sleeping place will be quiet and undisturbed for the next couple of hours. Go to bed and pracctise the induction technique that works the best for you.
5. Give yourself at least two hours to sleep.

That is far too extreme when you can just practice awareness and reality checks to have them just by going to sleep, and then almost every night, not just when you want to get up out of bed early. This would cut down on sleep so much.

It's obvious this was an early technique that is the grandaddy of other techniques we have refined today. There is probably no need to do all that really now.

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Originally Posted by Origami

That is far too extreme when you can just practice awareness and reality checks to have them just by going to sleep, and then almost every night, not just when you want to get up out of bed early. This would cut down on sleep so much.

It's obvious this was an early technique that is the grandaddy of other techniques we have refined today. There is probably no need to do all that really now.

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Well the technique are not really refined, only adjusted. He came up with this techniques with test persons in a lab. And this style of WBTB had a really high success rate, so high that he could test out the eyeball communication method to prove lucidity.

Well it's doable at least. If it is THAT successful then I may as well try it on Saturday, or Sunday so I have saturday to get myself used to getting up that early

Origami, i never kept count of my lucids. i've had a lot, most were short, crappy. i've been lucid dreaming for about 2 years now, having success once in a while. i was in a bad dryspell when i started using the hand-awareness/RC thing that Choi told me, it's pulled my out and it's like it shot me out a cannon, i'm having almost nightly lucids, though it might quit working eventually, it's only been 3-5 days since i started.

If it's given you nightly lucids from nothing for months then there is no way it would just up and stop giving you lucids. Only if you left off the gas and eased off would they go down. Believe they won't, and they won't. I'm sure you know all about belief by now.

crap, no lucids last night. i'll try harder today.

Oh well, no method is 100% perfect.

As for me I had a slight dip in my recall as of late, but last night it picked up.
But no matter what I do I can't get anywhere above "Last night was quite vivid and I saw my hands but didn't think anything of it".
That's the best I have managed.

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Originally Posted by Origami

Oh well, no method is 100% perfect.

As for me I had a slight dip in my recall as of late, but last night it picked up.
But no matter what I do I can't get anywhere above "Last night was quite vivid and I saw my hands but didn't think anything of it".
That's the best I have managed.

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I'm thinking about making WILD exercises to the project, would you be interested to try those out?

Well I am already doing SAT, and I do wake up after every REM cycle I have, and it is the weekend... plus it's the only one I haven't really tried earnestly yet.

Okay, I'll try it, but it's supposed to be difficult right?

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Originally Posted by Origami

Well I am already doing SAT, and I do wake up after every REM cycle I have, and it is the weekend... plus it's the only one I haven't really tried earnestly yet.

Okay, I'll try it, but it's supposed to be difficult right?

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Yeah, there is a difficult version and an easy version Traditional WILD and DEILD :)
But keep doing SAT then, just make sure that you don't pressure yourself.

Hm, I can do DEILD I think. I wake up at least 4 times a night (after each REM) without an alarm so in theory I can do it.

Well I tried LaBerge's WBTB technique.
The silly get up 3 hours early and stay up for 2 of those hours.

I normally wake up at 8, so I set my alarm for 5. I stayed awake in bed until 7 and went back to sleep. Well before I did the WBTB I noted down the dreams from the sleep before waking up, but after the WBTB I forgot them totally! I did have twice the amount and vividness of dreams after the WBTB, but no lucidity. I don't think I did the waking up part properly, as I just lied in bed for the two hours. Tonight, I will at least sit up and do something.

i think i had a lucid this morning but i didn't record it.

man i gotta stop being so lazy lol

You definitely do if you manage to have lucids while some of us continue to have trouble having them in the first place.

YEAH! I had lucid :D :D :D
it had nothing to do with the hands and i didn't even RC... just suddenly I knew I was dreaming so clearly that I didnt need a RC. maybe it was because the surroundings were very alike another dream I had a few nigths earlier.

anyway I had a great time. first I changed the weather in small steps to a bright blue sky. then I added more tropical things to the surroundings and made it more to my liking. then I tried flying, something i couln't do in previous lucids. this time I could after a few tries. when I fell after a failed try, the grass felt really realistic and pleasent. all the time someone was with me, but I didn't knew him. he gave instructions about the flying and also learned me some way to v-wild. he said i had je imagine myself in a tornade of colours moving around me faster and faster, until it was so fast that it all seemed white. then I could recreate the landscape and enter a dream. I tried this after the flying and could teleport to anohter place. sadly I woke up after that.

I was really convinced in my dream that the colour tornado thing would work for WILDing, so I'll try it :)

Ok it seems like many people have attained at least a lucid dream or a lucid moment, and that was the goal.
Now I need as many people as possible to describe the lucid dreaming feeling in a PM to me. (so you don't get influenced by each others posts.=
And if you sometime in the future find that you in some way can answer some of the questions here below, that I am trying to answer, feel free to message me.

1. Can a person access his/ or her own subconscious? (By this I mean to really try to find out if the dream is a projection of our subconscious like Sigmund Freud thought.)
2. How does a person do just that? (Tell me about you lucidity induction, was it really the techniques or was it your own experiences that teached you how so to speak.)
3. What can a person use that ability to? (If lucid dreaming literally change your life by answering question about yourself or if you discover something else)

I am also planning on writing about dreams in general and what importance dreams have had to other people through out the history.

(4.) So it would be interesting to see why people dream today, so send a pm to me where you answer "What do you think dreams are? Does they mean anything to you, and why do you want to lucid dream?"

Thank you so much for all the help! I am writing this project in Swedish, but maybe sometime in the future I translate it and post it here.

I hope you keep learning and experience a lot of new stuff, I have started to learn how to be able to stay in the dream so I can finally stay and explore the dream world.
I will add some of my own experiences here, but if I don't, read my Dream Journal.

And if you have any questions or want to learn anything new, just ask :)

Thank you !

Choi.

My recall is horribly inconsistent. I will remember 6 dreams one night, an fragments of one the next. I am close to a breakthrough.

My dad had his first lucid dream this morning! And he didn't motivate himself or even cared about the result, he did just like my friend, just did the exercises for the project's and my sake.
He didn't even got excited when he got lucid, instead he stayed a little bit and then the dream tricked him that he was dreaming again.
I asked him about the clarity and he said that it was vivid and felt real.

I tried Stephen LaBerge's WBTB method, properly this time. I got up at 5 and stayed awake until 7, by sitting up in bed, a bit of meditation, listened to some music, and er... stuff.

Anyway when I went back to sleep I guess I tried to WILD, I lay down very still and didn't move. This is where it get's weird and I want some advice and insight on this.

After a while, really not sure how long, I felt some mild S.P. onset. I have had it before and this time it was very tame and less jarring. I was relaxed even more when it went away, and then I tried to clear my mind. I could barely keep a straight thought but after a while I saw my family through my eyes as we all sat around the dinner table. I was arguing with my mum over what my sister was eating. (BTW she has been away to college for about 3 weeks). I then realized it was a dream and instantly shot back into my own body, eyes still closed and still....still. Then later on again I felt the same kind of daydreamy feeling and I saw my hands in front of me. My right hand only had three fingers but I barely saw them before I was out of the dream again.

By this time it was my usual get up out of bed time but today I got a lie in.
My question is, what was I doing, and how could I step over the line and stay in those dreams? I also had a decent amount of dreams recorded after I woke up to do my WBTB, and I had a regular long one after those two instances happened.

I have also made my thoughts become dreams, you have to realise that it's exactly the same thing. The only difference is that the dreams feels real, and you are also aware of what I so far suspect to be the subconscious, so you can aslo get surprised and see things you don't consciously add and this is dreaming.
I think what happend to you was either excitement or that you got too surprised, this however seemed to have been a really good attempt, you just have to experience more of these sensations and be prepared for anything. This is the mot common misstake people make when they WILD/ DEILD - Transition, they get too excited, surprised or chocked and this make the dream unstable for some reason. Sometimes you just wake up without any of these reasons, and even though you try to DEILD you just can't I don't know why, it might have something to do with REM-sleep or something I don't know. Also be prepared for a lot of false awakenings.

But the solution for your "problem" is to do this more times and build your own knowledge based on your experiences, there isn't really anyone who can tell you what to do except yourself.

Anyway congratulations to your WILD =) and keep up the good work! And keep me posted!

Oh and also tell me to help me out with the project: Did it felt real? Otherwise describe the feeling.

So it was a WILD? Ok, well I'm going to do the same thing tonight again, at the same time, 5am, stay awake til 7 and then I have to get up at 8:30, but my alarm is for 8 so whatever.

I am definitely going to try this again and again, it's the only thing that has shown promise outside of placebo. This isn't placebo because I didn't expect to start a WILD, I was aiming to just fall asleep and do a DILD basically. Maybe I can get better with this method and finally get a few lucids under my belt.

Yeah, but it sounds like you DILDed, but you were very aware. The definition of DILD is that you fall asleep and lose your awareness and then in the dream retain it and get lucid.
The definition of WILD is that you fall asleep, but you never lose awareness and then you see your thoughts become the dream, so you never lose awareness.
But there is no Relaxation -> sleep paralysis -> dream step, unless you have the sleep atonia disorder.
When you see your thought's vividly in front of you eyes you are tuning your awareness into a non-physical focus and when you are fully emerged to the dream you will get paralysed, but sometimes not even that. So there is only a relxation -> Dream step, but sleep paralysis is just a term to know the difference between when you are close and so on, so you can't feel the sp wave and so on. You can test this out by laying in your bed for a long time, you will feel your body get numb and even som small vibrations, but this isn't sleep paralysis, sleep paralysis is dreaming!

It doesn't really matter if you DILD or WILD if you get lucid =) But WBTB is the best technique, natural DILDs are good too, but I have never been able to stabilise them to perfect clarity. That I can only do in combination with a WBTB. But when you are new the point is to just get lucid dreams and experience the sensations, so it doesn't really matter either.
Although you can lucid dream anytime, if you just tune to the other sensations, but they will just feel like thoughts and nothing near the real experience you feel in REM, but you can still access information though, but it's really hard, I have only been able to do that with a WBTB.

WBTB is the best :D

But remember don't trust a word I say :P Only trust your own experiences, that's the way you learn!

Right, so it was a WILD then. It went "S.P like" wave, then relaxation, then sleep or nearly sleep. I say nearly because I never actually went to sleep and woke up a few minutes or hours later, it was like I was daydreaming, and I saw the daydreams much more vividly than normal, then I instantly snapped out of them, I think, as soon as I realized what I was seeing, instead of passively observing. If I hadn't noticed, I think I would have just started dreaming, which is what I did a while later, when I had that dream at the very end.

So if this is WILD, then what are the ways to stay in a dream, if I just get kicked out as soon as I realize it, but can't (or probably can't) control once then fully come about?

Well I don't do traditional WILDs as it seems like you were trying, I only use awakenings so DEILDs and then it's exactly like you did and then I just find myself standing in a "dream" and it feels real.
With traditional WILDs I have no real experience of how to tranistion, I have read from Michael Raduga and Lucidology how to to transition.
Here is their theories:

School of Out of Body Experiences:

When you find yourself in this daydreamy state and you suspect that you can transition try the following:

Try indirect techniques to see if you are in a non-physical focus and can start dreaming.

Here are some examples of indirect techniques but google for more or download his free ebook:
Every technique here you are supposed to vividly feel sensations!

Rotation - feel yourself rotate
Observing Images - Look behind your eyelids and try to see images (observe as a panorama)
Listening in - Listen for sounds and listen closer to amplify them.

If you feel any of these sensations amplify them until you feel that they reach their peak and then try a separation technique:

When they reach the peak you are already dreaming, you are laying in a dreambed and you are in a non-physical focus. Get up!
The problem here is that it's easy to get back into a physical focus and wake up so visualisation is safer, but harder.

- Get out of bed
- Visualise yourself levitate out
- Roll out
- and so on

Lucidology:

When you are in that daydreamy state look for memory impressions: How to Have Lucid Dreams -- Excerpt from SaltCube Video - YouTube
I don't remember what to do next, but PM me and I can tell you more when I remember :D