When Dream Signs, Dream Synbols and Waking Life Training does not work...

Once upon a time when I started to initiate Lucid Dreams I used Dream Signs, in my case common places that appeared in my dreams. At some point I stopped going to those familiar places in my dreams for some reason, and when I did end up in one of them they were heavily camouflaged and unrecognizable until after the fact. So that way of attaining lucidity stopped working for me, and this is still the case.

I managed to wrest control again by putting up signs that say, "Is this a dream?" or, "Am I dreaming?", what I have called, "Waking Life Training" around various things I commonly use around my room. That worked for a while, and I am still training myself, but these objects and the related questions I am trained to ask no longer appear in my dreams.

I have tried to use the, "deja-vu" experiences as signs but they now appear only inconsistently. I finally understand what these are I think, according to Stephen Berlin (he has some cool videos at YouTube) there is a group of people who subscribe to the idea of a sort of dream memory bank.

That we have two, a dream memory bank and our typical waking life memory bank. It is difficult to connect the two. But this would explain why I constantly get this sense of "deja-vu", intermittent but constant (meaning it is still happening), because my mind has chosen to recycle my dream memories for some reason, maybe more than is normal.

Wandered off topic there, but returning back now my main point is that all typical ways of training one's self to lucid dream no longer will work for me. So what would you recommend I try next?

My idea, at present, is perhaps to start setting an intention that I will be fully lucid and remember my dreams every night as I go to sleep. Then look for any sense of something familiar. Not deja-vu, just something familiar. Use that to get lucid, and when that fails look for something that looks unfamiliar. Since my mind can only manufacture familiar or unfamiliar things I would trap it, always being able to become lucid, because when I sense the familiar or unfamiliar I could use that sense to ask myself, "Am I dreaming?"

But I'm curious... Is there a way to sidestep this most likely lengthy process? Shorten it? Is there something a person can use that would, true or false, be induced by the same feeling, perception, etc.? Something already present in the majority of people's dreams? I hope I made that clear enough...

What I am looking for here is something that upon seeing it, interacting with it in some way or feeling it I can train myself to ask, "Am I asleep, is this a dream?" and gain lucidity. But this something, whatever it is, is not something the mind can take away or easily camouflage or anything else. You know, short circuit whatever it is in my mind that tries to keep me from being lucid.

I think another approach I may try is to write a script for a mental movie where I go into my mind, seeing it as a computer, and I turn off whatever system my mind is using to keep me from becoming lucid. To do this I need to understand this system. Are there any books, videos, etc. that cover this you could recommend?

I appreciate the help! Oh and one final off the topic request... Does anyone know of any free/open source for Windows, program (not website) that can take the spoken words in an audio file and convert them to text? Thinking about trying to improve my dream recall by using the mic on my mp3 player.

Thanks!
- DreamBliss

Hey DreamBliss! (Just have to give you a thumbs up for your signature :thumbup:)

I understand what you mean by the waking life training problem, when started out with lucid dreaming I did 20+ reality checks eeach day and with the proper awareness focus on each one and it was very tiring, I also recorded my dream signs it was usually me being in a school environment and I also did lots of audio experiments like having my own recorded voice telling me "You are dreaming.. This is a dream" playing my eat from my phone.

This was what the books told me to do so I thought it was something wrong with me... I had a dream journal, I actively did reality checks and I recored my dream signs.

I then gave up this idea completley and took a break. BAM lucid dreams three days in a row. What had happened?

I had one theory of why dream signs didn't worked and that was based on the theory of Freud. Freud said that our dreams are things that we surpress during the day, so if I actively thought of each dream sign I would probably stop dreaming of it as well, and that was what also happend.

It was not until I started with meditation that I started to understand why I got lucid during the break.

I was too focused on the outcome, when I went to bed I thought "Ok today I have done everything I can to increase me chances, I just can't fail this night" and the next morning I would type "Ok no lucid dream this night either..." and this pattern continued, until the night I took my break and completley gave up, but got lucid! This was because the intention of getting aware was still in my mind, but I wasn't actively focusing on it! I surpressed the thought in a way.

Although how do we make this practical? I don't say you are going to surpress the thought of becoming lucid, just that you don't put as much weight on it as you do now.

Instead focus on the positive sides of the night, like if you had a vivid dream one night, be happy for that and if you remember more dreams one night, be happy for that.
Then stop and think "What did I do differently this night that made this happen?" So in other words, do not focus on lucidity.

Lucidity is just a small part of what AWARENESS can achieve. Focus on the awareness, because you will always be aware of something each night, when you do this lucidity will come naturally.

I never reality check, I never record my dream signs, I don't record all my dreams, instead I stop and observe and be aware of what happend and the knowledge I can gain from it.

Don't judge yourself, observe yourself. The perfect method is the one that YOU invent and perfect.

Go to bed with a positive attitude and don't be attached to the outcome. There is always a new night.

Here is a something I wrote to myself that also have helped others:

Yoga Nidra or Conscious Sleep - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I hope this clears things out for you ;)

And even though I now gave you an answer, remember that everything I said is something you can learn on your own. This shows the valuee of both asking others and yourself.

Namaste :meditate:

Hey man thanks for the reply, the information, and the link. Looking at it now.

I did let it go. I have retained just the desire to lucid dream for these last 6 months or so, maybe longer. Really I just sort of gave up. I still recorded my dreams and still did the Reality Checks (that's sure better than Waking Life Training - man I could not remember that phrase!) But I wasn't focused on any sort of outcome.

Also I do meditate, 1-2 times a day typically, although not for as long as periods of time as I should. It is only within the last week or two that I started getting interested in becoming lucid again.

Anyhow I get what you are saying. It's the usual trick of the harder you look the less likely you will find it. Only when you stop looking do you find it. Same as trying to remember something right on the time of your memory. Only when you stop trying to remember it do you then recall whatever it was. I'll see if I can figure out how to apply this to whatever I do.

More and more I'm leaning towards turning off whatever system in my brain that tries so hard to keep me from becoming aware I am dreaming. I'm curious as to what it would do to me, be an interesting experiment. Does anyone know what this system is called that throws false remembrance, faulty logic, and all that other stuff at you to keep you from becoming aware you're dreaming? It's proving very hard to Google info on this.

Thanks again!
- DreamBliss

Haha you're talking to the right person. I had a project in school about dreams and the chemistry of the brain, well I was mainly focused on what dreams were, but I found information about the systems of the brain.

Here I explain how it can be useful knowledge in lucid dreaming: http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/crazyn...3/#post1955014

And here is a video that explains more in detail of how it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93U3FHD__LY

I apply this knowledge when I WILD/ DILD without WBTB ;)

So it looks like the aminergic system has something to with this. But a dim bulb has gone off in my mind... Isn't it that this system has to be shut off for dreaming to be induced? Because if that's the case you can't set it at a constant level. But if that is not the case, this is as simple as setting a slider from whatever it reads to 50% or 75% or, if I want to go old tech, as simple as turning the handle or nob on an old delivery system.

Anyone know more about the aminergic system? Are there any other systems in place that try to keep us from becoming lucid? As always I appreciate the help!
- DreamBliss

When we are lucid dreaming the aminergic system is slightly higher than the cholinergic. So no the reason to why aren't critical thinking is because when we relax and let go, the aminergic system decreases although if you are stay aware through this the cholinergic system will rise and the aminergic will remain the same.

Try to WILD before bed and you will see that the longer you stay aware in that WILD attempt, the more vivid your dreams will become and you'll be more aware in them.

But that is if this theory is correct, either way that is what I currrently are doing and as long as I get lucid I don't need the full details, even though it would be interesting.

So experiment and see :) In a nutshell it works like this:

You do a WILD attempt and if you manage to stay aware all the way through well then you will start dreaming eventaully, congratulations to WILDing without WBTB!

Or.. you'll fall asleep but since it is a delay in which the aminergic system decrease you will end up more critical and aware when you start dreaming.

I might have stumbled on a different tact to take with this. I will post more about it later.
- DreamBliss